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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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contributing to raised rent


How long has that space been empty? Market forces would say the ask is too high.

Posted on: 5/21 12:19
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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some cobblestones would enhance he character of the pedestrian zone imo

Posted on: 5/21 12:17
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Tender Shoot Farm closed - according to them - because rent was high and they wanted to retire. The two combined brought them to their decision.

On the contrary, one could argue that pedestrian area was so successful as to contribute to the raised rent. (which is another concern but opposite your complaint.) In either case there is no "losing" business.

Posted on: 5/21 11:51
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza
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Tender Shoot Farm did not close because of the pedestrian plaza. That's silly.

Posted on: 5/21 11:05
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza
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Posted on: 5/21 10:42
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza
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The businesses who think they will lose business should talk to the business in Phase I of the plaza, who also thought they'd lose business and actually had the self-respect to admit, a year in, that they were wrong and business increased. This anecdotal evidence, as well as plenty of planning studies around the country and world, refute the knee-jerk reaction that this is bad for business.

PS I don't know what the plans are for the 2 parking lots, but they both have vehicular access from First St. so it's not like they're rendered useless.

Posted on: 5/21 9:59
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Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza
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I knew this was being seriously considered for expansion and this morning I received the following in an email blast from our Mayor:

"Today, I will be signing an Executive Order expanding the Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza because I believe in the importance of working to build a pedestrian-friendly city. Car-free plazas, like the one we have created on Newark Avenue, provide major benefits to both local businesses and local residents-- they help to encourage a sense of walkability while boosting the local economy and growing the small business community."

While I generally agree with the concept (and live close enough that the walkability is a plus) I know there are a lot of business owners who expect to lose business because of this. Some get frequent deliveries, some do wholesale sales and need access for trucks to pick up, and then there's the city-owned parking lot next to the drugstore at Bay & Newark and the private lot for Bank of America customers closer to Jersey Ave. Did the City administration REALLY think this through ?

Posted on: 5/21 9:30
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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They should close that section of Barrow off and put the passeo the SID was promoting a few years ago.

Posted on: 4/30 9:40
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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JCman24 wrote:

Look at the rendering again... Barrow isn't getting closed off. The Barrow -> Erie highway will continue to cut through the area.


OK. Too bad. It probably should. It gets closed all day for the All About Downtown festival in September (I worked on that block all day last year), and the city survives.

Posted on: 4/29 22:33
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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elsquid wrote:
Regarding Barrow, there are two little business entrances on the east side, the botanica and the barber shop. But yeah, the rest is pretty much blank walls, with one big vacant lot.

But what you can do is put little micro-business spaces on the sidewalk in front of the blank walls, like little kiosks or spots for food carts, etc.

The sidewalks are pretty wide there, but width won't matter anyway now that the former street area is opened to pedestrians.


Look at the rendering again... Barrow isn't getting closed off. The Barrow -> Erie highway will continue to cut through the area.

Posted on: 4/27 21:58
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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I_heart_JC wrote:

a Prato on 4th street will be a welcome addition to that neighborhood, which has been one dining establishment short since Madame Claude relocated.



Madame Claude moved just across the street from the original location. But we're very excited to have Prato open up here as well!

Posted on: 4/27 16:38
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Regarding Barrow, there are two little business entrances on the east side, the botanica and the barber shop. But yeah, the rest is pretty much blank walls, with one big vacant lot.

But what you can do is put little micro-business spaces on the sidewalk in front of the blank walls, like little kiosks or spots for food carts, etc.

The sidewalks are pretty wide there, but width won't matter anyway now that the former street area is opened to pedestrians.

Posted on: 4/27 15:21
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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dr_nick_riviera wrote:
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I_heart_JC wrote:
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brewster wrote:
Nice post El. I might point out that some of the forces like HPNA back then were actively hostile to local commerce, doing whatever they could to push out the little storefront businesses. So many storefronts were converted to condos!


Indeed, this is Yvonne and the NA's real legacy. They drove out local businesses that served many to preserve parking for few wealthy homeowners in the area. The sad thing is, now that those spaces have been turned to condos, we can never have that level of local retail in the residential neighborhoods again.

You can see that they haven't changed at all. Look at all the HCNA members that came here to gloat when they successfully forced Prato out of their space. We'll never have the version of Jersey City El and I feel most people want as long as these corrupt groups are allowed to have unchecked influence.


except....Prato is still in their space, happily doing business.


Except...they very clearly state on their website that they will be closing that location and moving to 374 4th st in the village. Presumably the space will transform into a real estate office, nail salon or daycare.

Try again.

Prato had a few issues when it opened, which are discussed in a thread here. They tried to use a backyard for seating, and tried to operate as a restaurant, both zoning violations; a neighbor complained, and Prato sorted things out. HCNA was not involved.

Someone (I don't recall if it was Prato or the owner or both) tried to rezone from cafe to restaurant, which would allow alcohol and later hours, a bad fit for a quiet residential neighborhood. The change was denied, but Prato did get indoor seating.

That was 2 years ago. No problems and (from what I can tell) good business since then. HCNA's Facebook page has no discussions at all of Prato since then.

No public parking spaces anywhere near there were removed since Prato opened.

The "gloating" is in your imagination. There was one poster (squeeg) who blamed the landlord for the conflicts, not Prato, and was glad the community (not the Association) blocked the restaurant rezoning.

It's not clear why they are moving. Their site doesn't even say "moving," just that they are opening a new space on 4th, so who knows? Whatever the reason, they certainly weren't driven out by the HCNA.


a Prato on 4th street will be a welcome addition to that neighborhood, which has been one dining establishment short since Madame Claude relocated.

a business leaving isn't always a cause for alarm. if Prato is vacating Erie Street, they leave behind a wonderful space for a new cafe, while the village gains a great new place.

Posted on: 4/27 12:52
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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On a more positive note...

I support a modest expansion to the pedestrian area. In particular, the intersection of Bay and Newark seems hazardous to me, though I don't know if that is actually the case.

I can see the utility of blocking off Barrow, but I'm not sure how that will be as a pedestrian experience. It's not exactly the most lively block.

Posted on: 4/27 12:41
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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brewster wrote:
Nice post El. I might point out that some of the forces like HPNA back then were actively hostile to local commerce, doing whatever they could to push out the little storefront businesses. So many storefronts were converted to condos!


Indeed, this is Yvonne and the NA's real legacy. They drove out local businesses that served many to preserve parking for few wealthy homeowners in the area. The sad thing is, now that those spaces have been turned to condos, we can never have that level of local retail in the residential neighborhoods again.

You can see that they haven't changed at all. Look at all the HCNA members that came here to gloat when they successfully forced Prato out of their space. We'll never have the version of Jersey City El and I feel most people want as long as these corrupt groups are allowed to have unchecked influence.


except....Prato is still in their space, happily doing business.


Except...they very clearly state on their website that they will be closing that location and moving to 374 4th st in the village. Presumably the space will transform into a real estate office, nail salon or daycare.

Try again.

Prato had a few issues when it opened, which are discussed in a thread here. They tried to use a backyard for seating, and tried to operate as a restaurant, both zoning violations; a neighbor complained, and Prato sorted things out. HCNA was not involved.

Someone (I don't recall if it was Prato or the owner or both) tried to rezone from cafe to restaurant, which would allow alcohol and later hours, a bad fit for a quiet residential neighborhood. The change was denied, but Prato did get indoor seating.

That was 2 years ago. No problems and (from what I can tell) good business since then. HCNA's Facebook page has no discussions at all of Prato since then.

No public parking spaces anywhere near there were removed since Prato opened.

The "gloating" is in your imagination. There was one poster (squeeg) who blamed the landlord for the conflicts, not Prato, and was glad the community (not the Association) blocked the restaurant rezoning.

It's not clear why they are moving. Their site doesn't even say "moving," just that they are opening a new space on 4th, so who knows? Whatever the reason, they certainly weren't driven out by the HCNA.

Posted on: 4/27 12:22
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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I can't paint all neighborhood associations and their members with this brush. I was a member of HPNA for a long time and very few people took this position. However when I first came here in 97 the people in power did have these opinions and opposed building dog runs to boot. I'm certain when Yvonne ran VVPA not everyone agreed with her agendas either. Often these groups action really come down to two or three key people.

Posted on: 4/26 18:17
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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brewster wrote:
Nice post El. I might point out that some of the forces like HPNA back then were actively hostile to local commerce, doing whatever they could to push out the little storefront businesses. So many storefronts were converted to condos!


Indeed, this is Yvonne and the NA's real legacy. They drove out local businesses that served many to preserve parking for few wealthy homeowners in the area. The sad thing is, now that those spaces have been turned to condos, we can never have that level of local retail in the residential neighborhoods again.

You can see that they haven't changed at all. Look at all the HCNA members that came here to gloat when they successfully forced Prato out of their space. We'll never have the version of Jersey City El and I feel most people want as long as these corrupt groups are allowed to have unchecked influence.


except....Prato is still in their space, happily doing business.


Except...they very clearly state on their website that they will be closing that location and moving to 374 4th st in the village. Presumably the space will transform into a real estate office, nail salon or daycare.

Posted on: 4/26 16:10
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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brewster wrote:
Nice post El. I might point out that some of the forces like HPNA back then were actively hostile to local commerce, doing whatever they could to push out the little storefront businesses. So many storefronts were converted to condos!


Indeed, this is Yvonne and the NA's real legacy. They drove out local businesses that served many to preserve parking for few wealthy homeowners in the area. The sad thing is, now that those spaces have been turned to condos, we can never have that level of local retail in the residential neighborhoods again.

You can see that they haven't changed at all. Look at all the HCNA members that came here to gloat when they successfully forced Prato out of their space. We'll never have the version of Jersey City El and I feel most people want as long as these corrupt groups are allowed to have unchecked influence.


except....Prato is still in their space, happily doing business.

Posted on: 4/26 14:48
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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brewster wrote:
Nice post El. I might point out that some of the forces like HPNA back then were actively hostile to local commerce, doing whatever they could to push out the little storefront businesses. So many storefronts were converted to condos!


Indeed, this is Yvonne and the NA's real legacy. They drove out local businesses that served many to preserve parking for few wealthy homeowners in the area. The sad thing is, now that those spaces have been turned to condos, we can never have that level of local retail in the residential neighborhoods again.

You can see that they haven't changed at all. Look at all the HCNA members that came here to gloat when they successfully forced Prato out of their space. We'll never have the version of Jersey City El and I feel most people want as long as these corrupt groups are allowed to have unchecked influence.

Posted on: 4/26 13:21
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Nice post El. I might point out that some of the forces like HPNA back then were actively hostile to local commerce, doing whatever they could to push out the little storefront businesses. So many storefronts were converted to condos!

Posted on: 4/26 11:52
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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I don't believe it's at all a widespread phenomenon that someone from elsewhere in the city is suddenly unable to patronize a Downtown business that they love (and a business loses a longtime customer), because of increased traffic, due to the ped plaza.

I know LOTS of people from all over the city who still patronize businesses in and around the existing plaza by car. But hey, maybe it happens in some cases at some times of day ... I can't speak for every individual's experience. The fact that it might happen at all is the reason why changes in traffic patterns should be made somewhat gradually, to allow people and businesses to adjust; indeed having just one block of ped plaza for several years now seems pretty gradual to me.

The bigger problem with the original objection, though, is that when and if it's true, it is treated like the end of the world. It's not. The MOVEMENT of business revenue around the city is not somehow the LOSS of business. People don't stop needing stuff or buying it.

For one thing, what we ALWAYS hear is the one complaint about, say, a Downtown business losing a customer who used to drive there. We RARELY hear about people who discover a Downtown business while strolling a newly walk- and bike-friendly neighborhood, and become NEW customers. That's not something they come to local forums to yell about, because it's not a sore subject for either the new customer or the business owner.

Conversely, in some ways it's GOOD that a person from, say the upper Heights might switch to a similar business closer to home. That's good for the businesses in the upper Heights. Don't they count? We have it on good authority that there are bakeries in pretty much every neighborhood in this city. If they get a small percentage of extra revenue from people who used to shop Downtown, it will help them thrive and encourage more of them to serve very local customers.

This is how great cities have worked for 5,000 years until we started letting car monoculture destroy them: They're big places, but even today they're made up of tiny, self-sustaining neighborhoods, each with their own grocery, dry-cleaner, pizzeria, etc.

I've lived in the back corner of Hamilton Park since 1997, just off Brunswick Street. Before my time, the area was famous for having dozens of tiny neighborhood businesses serving everyone's even more basic needs: the butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker. Even as recently as the early '00s—after car culture and bigger stores killed off those markets—there was still a big old dude who would walk straight down the middle of Brunswick Street every Sunday pushing a huge cart, selling fruits and vegetables to all the Italian grandmothers, without their ever having to leave their blocks. It was pretty great, like living in a little Italian village, one might say.

It would be GREAT if more and more people in every neighborhood gradually started shopping closer to home again, by bike, on foot, on mass transit, or via shorter car trips than they're now making. It means less driving, with less of the ills that urban driving brings. It means safer, cleaner, more cohesive, friendly, sustainable neighborhoods.

It will mean some adjustments on everyone's part. It definitely WON'T mean anyone will be unable to buy a nice cake, or sell one, in Jersey City.

Posted on: 4/26 11:27
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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bodhipooh wrote:
The only thing causing delays, backups, and inconveniences in the vicinity of the pedestrian plaza are the illegally parked vehicles that choose to park and double park in the most inopportune places, like the assholes that double park to patronize Torico's, or the many badge displaying cars that park in clearly marked "No Parking Allowed" zones in the triangle area between Bay, Erie, and Newark, or the people that park in bus areas along Newark Avenue, forcing buses to stop in the travel lanes. If officers would patrol the vicinity of Newark Avenue to prevent those things, then traffic would flow much better.


Sadly, law enforcement of any kind regarding vehicles seems a dead issue in JC. Cops don't ticket moving violations, and the Parking Authority's ticketing seems randomized. I've seen them stop at an intersection with 6 cars parked too close to the corner, ticket 1, and move on.

Everyone wants to engineer the traffic problems away, but that will never succeed with a complete lack of enforcement. As for buses, whether there's a car in the stop or not, they don't pull over anyway.

Posted on: 4/26 11:19
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Yvonne wrote:
I know what I am talking about because I live near and take Newark Avenue frequently. This is not different than being on the turnpike or some other road. The accident or the construction barrier a mile away causes slows down that filter down to all the cars.


I live close enough that I can hear when there's a traffic issue on Newark Av from my bedroom. I walk Newark Av every day. There is not a continuous backup across the entire city because of the Pedestrian Plaza. That just is not reality at all. The worst-performing parts of Newark Av are in JSQ. And that has nothing to do with the Pedestrian Plaza, because east of JSQ, Newark Av operates under capacity and at a high level of service.

Your understanding of the principles of traffic engineering and traffic fluidity in an urban street network are not well-developed.

Feel free to observe here: Google Maps Traffic: Newark Avenue, Jersey City, NJ

Posted on: 4/26 10:35
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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sounds like a nice idea.

Posted on: 4/26 10:21
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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I know what I am talking about because I live near and take Newark Avenue frequently. This is not different than being on the turnpike or some other road. The accident or the construction barrier a mile away causes slows down that filter down to all the cars.

Posted on: 4/26 9:49
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Yvonne has never allowed facts to derail her narrative. She has been claiming that the pedestrian plaza causes backups in JSQ for 2+ years now. It is a plainly false claim, but she refuses to admit she is wrong. For anyone that spends ANY time on Newark Avenue, it is clear that there is no link between congestion in Little India and JSQ and the pedestrian plaza in DTJC.

The only thing causing delays, backups, and inconveniences in the vicinity of the pedestrian plaza are the illegally parked vehicles that choose to park and double park in the most inopportune places, like the assholes that double park to patronize Torico's, or the many badge displaying cars that park in clearly marked "No Parking Allowed" zones in the triangle area between Bay, Erie, and Newark, or the people that park in bus areas along Newark Avenue, forcing buses to stop in the travel lanes. If officers would patrol the vicinity of Newark Avenue to prevent those things, then traffic would flow much better.

Posted on: 4/26 8:08
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Bike_Lane wrote:
Wait, what does the pedestrian plaza on Newark between Erie and Grove have to do with traffic in India Square and by Monteleone's?


Apparently Newark Ave at India Square is the next pedestrian plaza planned.

Posted on: 4/25 23:25
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Bike_Lane wrote:
Wait, what does the pedestrian plaza on Newark between Erie and Grove have to do with traffic in India Square and by Monteleone's?


Apparently Yvonne lives in a "Butterfly Effect" world where anything she doesn't like causes any problem anywhere she cares to point out. Presumably the Newark Plaza also is responsible for war in the Middle East.

Posted on: 4/25 17:45
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Wait, what does the pedestrian plaza on Newark between Erie and Grove have to do with traffic in India Square and by Monteleone's?

I agree that traffic in India Square can be a pain, and it has been made worse by the Skyway/Route 139 work and Waze routing drivers onto Newark Ave through India Square to get around that construction mess.

But that has nothing to do with a one-block pedestrian plaza on the other side of town.

I walk up to Monteleone's from time to time. There's a CitiBike dock near there too. I should stop by and pickup some cookies and pastries, maybe this weekend.

Posted on: 4/25 17:01
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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JCman24 wrote:
Yvonne, will you concede that the plaza has not impacted access to the medical center as you claimed it would?


I do not know if it has impact the Medical Center, but I do know traffic along Newark Avenue from Jersey City to the Kennedy Blvd (Indian Square) is back up always since that particular street was closed. I know someone who stopped going to Monteleone Bakery due to this problem. This person orders their cakes there going back decades.


as a frequent Newark Ave traveler, I can report that this is patently false. condolences on your friend's cake loss.

Posted on: 4/25 16:08
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