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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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Home away from home
 
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We're just going to have to disagree on this. I simply don't see the same problems with pedestrians that you do. And if there are problems, I don't perceive them to be anywhere near the same scale and lethality as the bad drivers that rule the streets of this city. As a driver, no pedestrian has ever freaked me out. On the other hand, everytime I get behind the wheel, I'm freaked out by the multitude of drivers here who speed, tailgate, run red lights and stop signs, and drive distracted. Candice is responding to the overwhelming number of emails from her constituency demanding greater safety for pedestrians and responsible drivers. I and many of my neighbors and friends have been writing to Candice - and before her, Fulop - calling for a crackdown on bad drivers and for more pedestrian friendly streets. If you don't believe this represents the majority view of Ward E residents, then write her and encourage your like-minded friends and neighbors to do the same. We do, after all, live in a democracy. Your petulant whining and attacks on JC List posters who disagree (calling them "retarded," "poor," etc.) won't change anyone's opinion here and, more importantly, won't get you heard by anyone who actually matters. In the span of just a year-and-a-half three people have been killed by reckless drivers on the stretch of Grand near where I live. I don't f*cking care if drivers are inconvenienced by these proposals. They can bloody well move, as far as I'm concerned. There are a gazillion places in NJ where they can live and enjoy unimpeded driving. JC and Hoboken are perhaps the only two communities in the state where it's feasible to have a decent quality of life without a car. I believe there's intrinsic value in that.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 22:48
Edited by JadedJC on 2013/9/26 23:09:59
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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Home away from home
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The intersections of Columbus and Grove & Columbus and Marin are pedestrian nightmares!!!
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Posted on: 2013/9/26 22:46
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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Home away from home
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I think a good simple idea, for both Columbus and Grand, would be a median in the middle with trees, to give pedestrians a halfway point. Plus it would look damn nice, especially on Columbus which is a pretty ugly streetscape.
What is the best way to propose this and other feedback to Candace, simply email her? Traffic concerns for commuters really should be the last priority in all of these considerations. We should be encouraging suburban commuters to take public transportation. Jersey City is very well connected from the suburbs.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 21:49
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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Home away from home
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Assumptions are not enough. It's like saying, I assume people will slow done on Grand if we put stop signs every other block....ENFORCEMENT IS KEY. You are not saying it's human nature to try and catch all the lights so putting in stop signs, I suspect, will help. Candice is talking about enforcement of drivers but absolutely no enforcement of jaywalkers, bikers, and runners who disobey traffice laws. I see many runners and bikers run/bike against traffic - wtf? Not to mention jaywalkers. But no mention of increased enforcement
Posted on: 2013/9/26 21:22
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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Just can't stay away
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Why doesnt mayor select Osborne propose congestion pricing for Jersey City? They are doing everything else locally.
That will cut down on peak traffic and raise money for tax relief.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 21:16
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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Home away from home
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In the 1990s, I attended 3 public hearings on the Medical Center relocation. I spoke against it due to Grand St with its traffic, the location is too close to PS#3, and the proposed site floods. I still remembers the comments by our public officials who are still employed. Their argument was, the hospital needs an area that is not tied up with local traffic. And it is outside the residential area.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 19:48
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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Just get more squad cars and police cycles on the street things will clean up. There is just a huge lack of police presence in this city. Therefore lawlessness can run wild.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 19:12
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Home away from home
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Stop right there. That's the problem. Our traffic department has always considered matters from the perspective of the automobile. Rather than the neighborhood itself. Of course Grand Street is residential. What do you think are those tall things on the sidewalk? Those are BUILDINGS. Mostly residential buildings. There's one really big one called a HOSPITAL. And several ones along the way called SCHOOLS. It is generally understood that when you have such edifices, it is not good to have cars driving along the adjacent street at high speeds. And it is expected that you will have lots of things called PEDESTRIANS who come out of their houses. Many people in and out of the hospital as well, including one elderly woman who was killed trying to cross the street as she exited. And of course there are lots of little ones who go to and from school on those streets. I know, because I walk my daughter to school every day. We have to cross Grand Street and it is a nightmare. Even at age 5, she was observant enough to ask me to "call Steve Fulop" because "people don't get their turn" to cross the street. So Councilwoman Osborne's plan is a breath of fresh air. Finally, someone who recognizes that these streets are used by people and that the current traffic patterns, particularly along Grand Street, are not just inconvenient but dangerous. If the Traffic Department has a problem, then perhaps they can look for some jobs in Florida or California, if not suburban NJ.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 19:07
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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Home away from home
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Jersey Journal Poll on de-synchronizing lights on Grand Street - what say ye?
http://www.nj.com/hudson/voices/index ... ld_traffic_lights_on.html
Posted on: 2013/9/26 18:49
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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Home away from home
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According to the Traffic Engineering, Grand Street is not considered a residential street, which was the reason why they widen the street by removing park cars to give 4 lanes. It is wider than York, Montgomery, and Mercer Streets. Those streets were designed for horse and carriage, not the exit for the Turnpike Express.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 17:59
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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Home away from home
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Oops! Of course, you are right. I meant to say "downtown JC". The morning caffeine hadn't yet kicked in. Anyway, my original point is still valid that given the amount of foot traffic at that intersection from the PATH station, bus stops and pedestrian plaza events like the farmers market, the interval between walk lights for crossing Columbus isn't just long, but when it finally does pop up, it's a ridiculously short walk light.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 17:24
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Home away from home
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One other point.
Grand Street IS a residential block as much as York, Mercer, and Montgomery are.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 16:54
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2013/9/26 15:04
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Home away from home
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Really? The densest? Do you ever get out of DTJC? Guess you haven't spent any time in Journal Square. 
Posted on: 2013/9/26 14:48
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Home away from home
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If we're creating a wish list, then start with having the State build what was supposed to be Exit 14D on the turnpike extension. That was supposed to be an exit at the waterfront for people commuting to the jobs at the office towers.
If Fulop is going to cross party lines and endorse Christie, he better get something BIG.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 14:29
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Congestion is better than a super-highway. As far as I'm concerned that Columbus Ave Exit is for the DTJC residents to get home from the shore, airport etc. It shouldn't be thought of as a shortcut to NYC for every crazy "I HAVE TO GET TO WORK!!!!" lunatic driver.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 14:19
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Home away from home
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I've said it before and I will say it again.
Addressing traffic congestion by adding more lanes is like addressing obesity by loosening one's belt. Here, the city basically said. "I plan to go on a binge and gain 50 pounds in the future, so I'll buy a suit several sizes too large so I can grow into it." Arguments about traffic are, unfortunately, often filled with conjecture and hyperbole. Here, however, we have seen the results of what the city did, several times.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 13:47
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People jaywalk on Grand Street near the hospital is due to poor planning on the city's part, if you notice the bus stop is not at the corner but near the middle of the block.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 12:53
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I suspect that shortening the green lights on Grand and Columbus will help alleviate the number of jaywalkers crossing those streets. The reason people make a dash for it is because those green lights seem to last freaking forever. I'm not saying it's right, it's just human nature. The most idiotic light must be the delayed walk sign at Columbus and Grove. The densest foot traffic in JC is arguably at this intersection, and pedestrians are not only given the lowest priority in crossing Columbus, but when they do get the walk light, they're given a scant 15 seconds, if that. That is NOT enough time for the elderly or people with small children. It's no wonder most pedestrians rebel and cross Columbus as soon as the southbound traffic light turns green rather than wait for the northbound green light.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 12:00
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It seems like some people say they don't want to reduce this to and "us vs. them" argument, but that's all I see in this thread. While pedestrians do have the right of way in most situations, that doesn't give them the right to do whatever they want. The area around VVP and Grand has pedestrians that have to be sexually attested to the middle of the street. People walking down the street when there are perfectly good, clear, open sidewalks. Pedestrians walking out into the middle of the street mid way through the block with no thought to see if a car is coming. Possibly the worst offense is when I see parents using their babies in strollers as a device to stop traffic.
Don't get me wrong, I think the city needs to be more pedestrian freindly. But let's apply the laws we already have equally to everyone. Ticket cars that speed, park to close to the corner, and don't stop for pedestrians in a crosswalk. Let's also ticket jay walkers and people that cross against the light. As far as bikes go, they are the same as cars in the eyes of the law. Ticket them for running red lights, riding against the flow of traffic. TL;DR: drivers and and pedestrians have rights. Apply the law equally to everyone.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 11:09
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Agree - some of us have 150 year old elaborate plaster molding and rosettes that are very fragile. Restoring them is very expensive if you can find someone who can do it. In the late 80s there was a group of guys who came from Ireland annually and worked here for cash doing this sort of work.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 11:09
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Home away from home
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Think about what you are saying. The reason people get off the turnpike and cot through downtown to get to the tunnel is because they believe they can move faster and get to the tunnel quicker by doing so. By narrowing Grand and making the lights asynchronous, you take away one of the two primary paths to do so. Most people won't go down York or Montgomery (although some small number probably will.) Most will probably first switch to Columbus and then, after realizing that is no longer viable, revert to staying on the turnpike where they belong. The key is going to be beefed up enforcement. JCPD should be lined up four deep at Columbus and Brunswick and at Grand and Monmouth and ticket the hell out of the speeders and red light runners. People get killed on Grand street, so I really don't care about the small possibility someone's plaster may crack. Josh is right - the street never should have been widened and traffic flows fine out of downtown on Grand street. It's the eastbound side that backs up in the morning and westbound in the evening.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 7:56
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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To mfadam, you are mistaken. During the 1970s I was President of the Van Vorst Park Association. We had officials from the city and state at our meetings because there were flooding problems then. One of the things that was said by these officials is the impact on plaster ceilings from the shaking of the ground. Since the sidewalk is hollow the ground does shake, sometimes the sewerage collapse adding to the flooding problem. The culprit according to these officials was/is traffic. I personally had my ceilings replace and I am not the only one.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 3:12
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Home away from home
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Grand Street was not as much of a problem until Liberty Harbor was built. The city then removed parking from both sides of the street, turning it into a 4 lane highway. When asked why, the explanation was that Liberty Harbor, when built, would have a large number of residents and there would be a need for more traffic lanes. Notwithstanding this, residents of Liberty Harbor have made clear from day 1 that they didn't support the change.
The City put parking back on some streets on the south side but reconfigured the lanes to keep it four lanes. It is a death trap.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 3:08
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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Not even remotely buying the car traffic will hurt brownstone plaster ceilings argument...
JC deserves better than to be a superhighway for lousy drivers too lazy to take trains into Manhattan...
Posted on: 2013/9/26 2:33
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As far as I can tell, there are not unlimited alternatives to Grand St. (whether traveling east toward the tunnel or west toward 78), there is one alternative-- Columbus Drive. Columbus Drive already has as heavy traffic, if not heavier traffic, than Grand. So this traffic that is being diverted from Grand, isn't simply disappearing, it's creating more congestion on Columbus (and Marin). You don't reduce traffic volume by eliminating road space by narrowing roads, you just create more congestion.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 2:32
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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Home away from home
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I am just repeating what was said, if you have Comcast, Channel 1 you might hear her comments at the Council Caucus. I have lived on Van Vorst Park for over 40 years. I know those streets First, they are narrow and second, the sidewalks are hollow. Heavy traffic will have an impact on plaster ceilings.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 2:03
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Home away from home
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Grand Street is two lanes east of Marin and does just fine.
The reason so many people use Grand Street is a highway is because we invite it's use that way by making it so damn wide. If Grand Street is narrowed then fewer cars will use it as a shortcut to the tunnel. And if some traffic is distributed to the other streets, then that is manageable. Grand Street should be narrowed.
Posted on: 2013/9/26 1:33
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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I have to agree with the point about narrowing Grand St. to two lanes between Marin and Central. That sounds like an absolutely awful idea. Grand St. is the pipeline for many in DTJC to get to Route 78, which is why it's a high-volume road-- particularly during rush hour. Narrowing it down to 2 lanes (even though a decent portion of the stretch in question is already 2 lanes) will do nothing except cause backups and even worse congestion on the side streets in and around VVP.
The rest of the proposal I think sounds very promising and I have no other issues with it. But the proposal of narrowing Grand St should be scrapped.
Posted on: 2013/9/25 22:42
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Re: Council person Osborne presents Pedestrian plan
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Look at the comments. There are also complaints regarding pedestrians. She makes some good points about De-synchronizing lights and protecting bad drivers from pedestrians but who will protect drivers from pedestrians who just don't give a fk? Looks like there is no pedestrian accountability AT ALL in her plan. Not comprehensive at all...and no input from those who primarily drive AND live in JC - yes, people like that do exist...
Posted on: 2013/9/25 22:16
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