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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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My favorite part of this discussion is how no one is saying "I don't want another giant retailer bringing traffic to my neighborhood" the way they bitched and moaned about Home Depot. That store, BTW, is a model of how to create a parking friendly large retail space in an area strapped for available land, should one of these grocers deign to deposit a store here. Given how few cars are there on my visits, perhaps it'll be available eventually.

I agree with the naysaying posters "low $ demographic" argument, based on my frustration with Costco, which refuses to put a store in Hudson County. BJ's is a crappy wannabee. The 3 Costo's in our area are all a 1/2 hr drive, similar to WF & TJ in Edgewater.

Posted on: 2008/3/22 4:02
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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alb wrote:
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Mathias wrote:
Also just to remind everyone Shop-Rite, A&P and others are unionized supermarkets where workers receive good pay, health benefits and defined benefit pensions.


a) That's good to know. Do you know if Pathmark is unionized, too?

b) One thing to keep in mind is that we don't have to have a Whole Foods to have a good place to go to get organic groceries. If we could just get a smaller version of the Basic Foods grocery store that Hoboken has, or if we could somehow help Subia's grow to become a store like that, that would be a huge improvement over the situation we have now.


Pathmark, A&P, Shoprite, Stop & Shop & Kings are all unionized and all under the same union contract throughout North Jersey (over 40,000 workers).

Supremo is also unionized but under a different contract

Fresh Direct and Garden of Eden in Hoboken are attempting to unionize.

I love basic foods in Hoboken, unfortunately they are non-union. I go there and buy products I cannot get at shoprite. Even if there were a whole foods in the area I would still support Basic Foods instead.

Posted on: 2008/3/22 2:46
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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ianmac47 wrote:
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I agree with other posters that Shop Rite/A&P wouldn't lose any business because its too expensive to do ALL your shopping there,


And thus proving the theory that demographically, Jersey City lacks enough consumers financially capable of supporting a Whole Foods.




Maybe. But Jersey City, Hoboken, Harrison and Newark easily have the demographics (assuming a store location set close to the Path).

A Whole Foods in JC is an inevitable certainty. Earnings growth and the dynamics of competition require the move. The company cannot allow Trader Joes to waltz into JC and cannibalize its Union Square/Edgewater locations.

I hope this helps, Jenny Mayla.


Isn't the Trader Joe's in Edgewater literally right next door to the Whole Foods. Like, the next strip mall over?

Kind of like how the Trader Joe's in Union Square is exactly one block east of the Whole Foods?

It's not an either or.

By your logic regarding a Harrison/Newark/JC/Hoboken Whole Foods needing to be near a PATH station, how is the 14th Street Whole Foods not already this store you speak of?

Regardless of whether Whole Foods will one day deign to park it's absurdly over-priced indulgent store in our town, Jersey City will never be able to sustain an urban-style Whole Foods designed to meet profits without substantial parking. Never. Going. To. Happen.

Posted on: 2008/3/22 2:08
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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Mathias wrote:
Also just to remind everyone Shop-Rite, A&P and others are unionized supermarkets where workers receive good pay, health benefits and defined benefit pensions.


a) That's good to know. Do you know if Pathmark is unionized, too?

b) One thing to keep in mind is that we don't have to have a Whole Foods to have a good place to go to get organic groceries. If we could just get a smaller version of the Basic Foods grocery store that Hoboken has, or if we could somehow help Subia's grow to become a store like that, that would be a huge improvement over the situation we have now.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 19:09
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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I DO see where you're going Mr Wolf.. we do have higher projected "better" population than a lot of areas of the country, esp with Manhattan. Let's all hope, right?

Posted on: 2008/3/21 18:47
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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matchjames wrote:
Quote:

MrWolf wrote:
Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
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I agree with other posters that Shop Rite/A&P wouldn't lose any business because its too expensive to do ALL your shopping there,


And thus proving the theory that demographically, Jersey City lacks enough consumers financially capable of supporting a Whole Foods.




Maybe. But Jersey City, Hoboken, Harrison and Newark easily have the demographics (assuming a store location set close to the Path).

A Whole Foods in JC is an inevitable certainty. Earnings growth and the dynamics of competition require the move. The company cannot allow Trader Joes to waltz into JC and cannibalize its Union Square/Edgewater locations.

I hope this helps, Jenny Mayla.



Ummm.. what? These communities may have a lot of population, but they DO NOT have the demographics. ANY way you slice it, most of Hudson County, seen through zips, is at least HALF of the income levels demanded by a chain like WF. HALF.

And TJ's and WF are seen as appropriate companion stores, they in NO WAY compete with each other. TJ's tends to follow WF into a market... (Edgewater, Union Square, Ridgewood/Paramus), they simply are NOT the same. Very little fresh food in TJ's, tiny meat selection (all pre-packaged). etc. Whole Foods is a supermarket.



Ummmmm, you forget the projected increases in population anticipated for these areas, partially driven by the million projected for NYC. The demographics in these areas are CHANGING by the day, fertile ground for earnings hungry companies like WF.

No one said they were the same, only that a TJs in JC would take SOME sales from WF in the area. Given that customers are not overly abundant in the area, the notion becomes more relevant (i.e. not an issue in Manhattan since the city easily supports both due to the sizable customer base).

This will happen.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 18:39
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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Quote:

MrWolf wrote:
Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
Quote:

I agree with other posters that Shop Rite/A&P wouldn't lose any business because its too expensive to do ALL your shopping there,


And thus proving the theory that demographically, Jersey City lacks enough consumers financially capable of supporting a Whole Foods.




Maybe. But Jersey City, Hoboken, Harrison and Newark easily have the demographics (assuming a store location set close to the Path).

A Whole Foods in JC is an inevitable certainty. Earnings growth and the dynamics of competition require the move. The company cannot allow Trader Joes to waltz into JC and cannibalize its Union Square/Edgewater locations.

I hope this helps, Jenny Mayla.



Ummm.. what? These communities may have a lot of population, but they DO NOT have the demographics. ANY way you slice it, most of Hudson County, seen through zips, is at least HALF of the income levels demanded by a chain like WF. HALF.

And TJ's and WF are seen as appropriate companion stores, they in NO WAY compete with each other. TJ's tends to follow WF into a market... (Edgewater, Union Square, Ridgewood/Paramus), they simply are NOT the same. Very little fresh food in TJ's, tiny meat selection (all pre-packaged). etc. Whole Foods is a supermarket.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 18:11
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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ianmac47 wrote:
Quote:

I agree with other posters that Shop Rite/A&P wouldn't lose any business because its too expensive to do ALL your shopping there,


And thus proving the theory that demographically, Jersey City lacks enough consumers financially capable of supporting a Whole Foods.




Maybe. But Jersey City, Hoboken, Harrison and Newark easily have the demographics (assuming a store location set close to the Path).

A Whole Foods in JC is an inevitable certainty. Earnings growth and the dynamics of competition require the move. The company cannot allow Trader Joes to waltz into JC and cannibalize its Union Square/Edgewater locations.

I hope this helps, Jenny Mayla.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 18:03
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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I agree with other posters that Shop Rite/A&P wouldn't lose any business because its too expensive to do ALL your shopping there,


And thus proving the theory that demographically, Jersey City lacks enough consumers financially capable of supporting a Whole Foods.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 17:40
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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Boken2JC wrote:
and I would love it because then I wouldn't have to deal with River Road traffic driving to the Edgewater store! ...


ding ding ding.
you're already going to Edgewater. They feel they're already servicing the small slice of JC customers from this store that is what-- 4 miles away? I'm sure they even feel Union Square is servicing JC... because it is.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 17:39
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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Parking isn't an issue for a Whole Foods opening in downtown JC because there are stores in NYC with no parking at all. I think it would do very well if it is close to a light rail station, and I would love it because then I wouldn't have to deal with River Road traffic driving to the Edgewater store! I agree with other posters that Shop Rite/A&P wouldn't lose any business because its too expensive to do ALL your shopping there, its best for their prepared items, cheese, produce, hard-to-find spices...

Posted on: 2008/3/21 17:28
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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terps wrote:
To respond to some of the posts on this thread...

1. Whole Foods is not putting Shop Rite or A&P out of business any time soon. I love Whole Foods, but I agree, for bulk items, it is too expensive.

Places like Shop Rite and A&P don’t care about customer service. Unfortunately that's the way it is always going to be. People shop for convenience and pricing. I agree, if a Wegmans came in, then they would have something to worry about. Another note, I typically shop at A&P which is clean btw, but this week decided to go to Shop Rite and found that it is disgusting in there.

2. Dunkin's are independently owned. The coffee tastes different at each Dunkin, and I have been to many that have run out of Donuts. They don’t care. I wish corporate would have some kind of quality control dept that could keep an eye on the franchises. Like grocery shopping, people go there for price and convenience.


In defense of Shop-rite and it's appearance ... when you consider the volume that they do, it would be extremely difficult to make everybody's shopping experience pleasant. Their main priority is to keep the shelves stocked and move customers in and out of the store.

As for Dunkin Donuts, I stop there every couple days and have never had a problem there. The workers there are doing their best .. I've seen much worse.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 15:12
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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To respond to some of the posts on this thread...

1. Whole Foods is not putting Shop Rite or A&P out of business any time soon. I love Whole Foods, but I agree, for bulk items, it is too expensive.

Places like Shop Rite and A&P don’t care about customer service. Unfortunately that's the way it is always going to be. People shop for convenience and pricing. I agree, if a Wegmans came in, then they would have something to worry about. Another note, I typically shop at A&P which is clean btw, but this week decided to go to Shop Rite and found that it is disgusting in there.

2. Dunkin's are independently owned. The coffee tastes different at each Dunkin, and I have been to many that have run out of Donuts. They don’t care. I wish corporate would have some kind of quality control dept that could keep an eye on the franchises. Like grocery shopping, people go there for price and convenience.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 14:35
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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Also, I think Dunkin's death clock started on Thursday morning when Starbucks opened. The store has gotten worse, not better. I went in there last week around 9pm, and they had literally a dozen donuts. Not a dozen types of donuts, but a dozen donuts that probably had been sitting there from the afternoon. It is in a prime retail location-- which means rent is going to be very high when it comes time to renew their lease.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 13:56
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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slim26 wrote:
Do you honestly believe that Shoprite needs to be worried about a Whole Foods in their backyard?

I'm sorry, but it is comical for you to mention the thought that Whole Foods could make Shoprite "go under" ..lol

Have you ever stepped foot inside Shoprite to see what their sales are like? I would highly doubt that Whole Foods would put any noticeable dent into Shoprite's customer base and sales.

Just because you're too good to be around the clientele of Shoprite or the Dunkin Donuts by the PATH station does not mean that they need to get their acts together. Trust me, they are both in prime locations with huge customer bases .. both will do just fine no matter what happens.


There's a lot of truth in this. In fact Whole Foods and Trader Joes really do not compete head to head with the Shop-Rites and A&P's. What happens is that many people go to WF and TJ for specialty items then buy the bulk of their food at traditional grocery stores.

A bigger worry for traditional grocers are Wegmans, Stu Leonards and Wal-Marts with full line grocery stores inside. All of these however do better in more suburban areas and when I say Suburban I am talking about areas that are spread out, almost all of North Jersey is urban.

Also just to remind everyone Shop-Rite, A&P and others are unionized supermarkets where workers receive good pay, health benefits and defined benefit pensions. Whole Foods and Trader Joes are anti-union chains with official policies of Employment At Will meaning your employment is at the will of the company and you can be terminated at any time for any reason (aside from title 7 exemptions).

Posted on: 2008/3/21 13:55
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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I actually think that A&P is in greater danger of closing if Whole Foods were to open. ShopRite will probably race to the bottom and compete with PathMark rather than with Whole Foods. A&P on the other hand renovated their store and subsequently raised their prices. However, most likely due to shoddy management, A&P is often understocked, has produce of questionable quality, and on top of that, long lines. I think A&P will need to get their act together to stay in the game since they have driven away the lowest income customers while failing to cater to higher income customers.

Also, as for ShopRite, in the long term, the whole Metro Plaza property has a plan for 8 towers. The first of these, the Metropolitan, has since been put on hold. However, eventually the strip mall will be replaced probably over the next two decades. According to an article I read last year, I think on GlobeSt, "retail will continue to be a major component" of the property; this probably means a major grocery store will be included in the base of one of the planned towers, and only then do I suspect ShopRite will begin catering to upper income demographics, assuming ShopRite continues to be an anchor tenant.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 13:53
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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ianmac47 wrote:
The most important thing that a Whole Foods would do is put pressure on the other grocery stores in the area to sink or swim. I don't think ShopRite or A&P do a very good job of providing high quality produce or decent customer service. I think with a Whole Foods in their backyard, one of those stores will either get its act together or go under. So even if you don't shop at Whole Foods, you'd probably benefit from its presence.


Do you honestly believe that Shoprite needs to be worried about a Whole Foods in their backyard?

I'm sorry, but it is comical for you to mention the thought that Whole Foods could make Shoprite "go under" ..lol

Have you ever stepped foot inside Shoprite to see what their sales are like? I would highly doubt that Whole Foods would put any noticeable dent into Shoprite's customer base and sales.

Just because you're too good to be around the clientele of Shoprite or the Dunkin Donuts by the PATH station does not mean that they need to get their acts together. Trust me, they are both in prime locations with huge customer bases .. both will do just fine no matter what happens.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 13:37
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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couple what Ian says, and what Ive stated MANY times, there simply is not enough critical mass of appropriate demo's that they look for around here. Even 20000 new condos doesnt strengthen the numbers enough around here for it to matter.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 11:34
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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ianmac47 wrote:
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frankm wrote:
Is there any merit to this?

"Whole Foods, the gourmet grocer legions of avid fans have been hoping would soon open a Jersey City branch, will occupy the bottom two floors of the new tower being constructed at the Grove Street PATH station."

http://www.newyorkssixth.com/

Can anyone confirm or deny this?


Since I sorted started all this, I figured I should weigh in. I've recapped the last two years of rumors here.


+1

Good article summing up the Whole Food mainliners syndrome of junkies lookin for a fix in JC spinning rumors. Thanks also for bringing in the retail space considerations necessary for a Whole Foods or destination retail which most are oblivious to knowing, whether it's a Whole Foods or B&N, Border's et al. Having been present at the birth of the B&N superstore beginnings, I know that large retailers such as the aforementioned, look for retail space and traffic far in excess of any locale presently in place in JC.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 8:31
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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frankm wrote:
Is there any merit to this?

"Whole Foods, the gourmet grocer legions of avid fans have been hoping would soon open a Jersey City branch, will occupy the bottom two floors of the new tower being constructed at the Grove Street PATH station."

http://www.newyorkssixth.com/

Can anyone confirm or deny this?


Since I sorted started all this, I figured I should weigh in. I've recapped the last two years of rumors here.

Posted on: 2008/3/21 2:03
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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"There is something in the works"


Gotta love it!

Posted on: 2008/3/20 14:44
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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The most important thing that a Whole Foods would do is put pressure on the other grocery stores in the area to sink or swim. I don't think ShopRite or A&P do a very good job of providing high quality produce or decent customer service. I think with a Whole Foods in their backyard, one of those stores will either get its act together or go under. So even if you don't shop at Whole Foods, you'd probably benefit from its presence.

Posted on: 2008/3/20 14:01
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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FYI, I did e-mail Jacqueline Klinger inquiring about a Whole Foods in Jersey City, here is her response:

--------------------
From: jacqueline@nwatlantic.com
Subject: Re: Whole Foods in Jersey City?
Date: March 19, 2008 9:46:32 PM EDT

On Mar 19, 2008, at 9:46 PM, Jacqueline Klinger wrote:

There is something iin the works
Jacqueline Klinger
Northwest Atlantic Real Estate Services, LLC
--------------------

Posted on: 2008/3/20 11:21
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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I too vote for Trader Joe's - a no brainer (unless they have a company policy against dealing with corrupt municipalities)

Posted on: 2008/3/20 2:36
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Re: warehouse district development - wholefoods
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To my understanding, the PAD redevelopment plan is still undergoing changes at this point. Although there are plenty of construction approvals & zoning restrictions in place, I'm still wondering what brandname businesses will be moving in amongst the boutique shops we're all expecting there. Wholefoods would be a nice alternative to Shoprite.

Posted on: 2008/1/10 19:11
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warehouse district development - wholefoods
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i know this is one rumor that spreads like wildfire around here but i heard that wholefoods has committed to open in the massive toll brothers development in the power arts warehouse district.
anyone else hear this too.

Posted on: 2008/1/10 18:58
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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What we need here is a store like Integral Yoga that's on 13th Street in the city. If someone opened a store like that, I would shop there ALL the time! Their produce is ALL organic and it's always beautiful and affordable. How do they do it?!?!

Posted on: 2007/8/15 15:02
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/05/realestate/05njzo.html

Newport is getting a 30,000 sq ft Morton Williams Grocery.

http://www.mortonwilliams.com/

Posted on: 2007/8/5 15:47
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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went to the whole foods in edgewater last night for the first time (didn't even know it existed until i read about it on here the other day). decent size, good selection, reasonable prices. granted you have a car it's not that far of a drive from downtown JC and considering i only go food shopping about once every two weeks i'd rather drive the extra 20 minutes to shop at whole foods than have to go to a&p.

Posted on: 2007/8/1 20:15
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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Posted on: 2007/7/30 0:01
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