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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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dr_nick_riviera wrote:
How bad do you think a correction in downtown would be? 10%? 15% at the most?


Err... no. For brownstones and other properties currently paying effective rates of under 1%, the correction will be at least 100%, and in the most egregious cases the correction may be 200%. Simply put, some properties downtown are currently paying effective rates that are less than 1%, and when assessed the "correct" rate of 2.1%, their tax bills will be twice or three times as high.

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I'm thinking whatever correction happens, there's so much pent up housing demand coming in from NYC, any excess inventory would get absorbed quickly and the dip would be very short lived.


This is probably true.

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DTJC is still dirt cheap compared to gentrified areas of Brooklyn and Queens, even with today's prices.


This is not so accurate. I looked very closely at the markets in Queens and BK before moving to DTJC: it's definitely cheaper than the desirable BK areas (DT BK, BK Heights, etc) but DTJC was definitely more expensive than Queens. I chose to stay here because I do enjoy/prefer living in JC, even the nicer areas of Queens are super crowded, which is an issue for me (and, many others, I am sure) and because my commute is as good (i.e., short) as that of friends living in the nicer, closer areas of Queens.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 3:15
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Edited to 44 minutes, originally 2 hours and twenty minutes - Jersey City together.
https://vimeo.com/162619076

Posted on: 2016/4/13 2:06
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Yvonne wrote:
In order to appeal a wrong assessment, you must first pay the taxes. That is the tricky part. While the reval should go through I know of many people basically seniors in 1988 who did lose their home because they did not have the money to pay the taxes in order to do the appeal.


We've been through this a million times about why this song is nothing but fear mongering.

1st- the reverse mortgage as we know it did not exist in 88. No one with substantial equity today will need to sell.

2nd- Even if someone had their home seized in a tax lien because they were too incompetent to sell it during the extended lien process, they would have received the balance left after taxes were taken. They did not "lose" their home, they were forced to sell it.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 1:42
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Imho Steve Fulop would have done less arm to himself by coming clean and supporting a new reval while rejecting payment for the previous one based on shoddy work (remember the form filled with pencil and hardly any look at your property?) instead of bogus arguments. Now I can't see how he can be elected on a democratic gubernatorial ticket based on inequity. For the record I live downtown and will likely see my taxes go up. Taxes won't kill you, but BS will Mr Mayor.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 1:16
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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In order to appeal a wrong assessment, you must first pay the taxes. That is the tricky part. While the reval should go through I know of many people basically seniors in 1988 who did lose their home because they did not have the money to pay the taxes in order to do the appeal.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 0:47
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third_street_hats wrote:
Not to be callous, but if you've been here all your life and have paid off your mortgage on that brownstone but can't afford the taxes you will probably have to sell.


If you're over 62, you can use a standard reverse mortgage to pay your taxes out of that pile of equity you're sitting on. There's simply no current truth to the myth of the fixed income senior "losing their home to taxes" unless that senior has already drained the home of equity.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 0:35
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Meanwhile in Bayonne

Posted on: 2016/4/13 0:23
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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tommyc_37 wrote:
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third_street_hats wrote:
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user1111 wrote:
The biggest fear I heard last night was if this happens and you are not making 200k a year you just do not belong in zip code 07302 and not many folks were happy about that.


I think that's oversimplifying. More accurate would be if you are not making 200k a year you just do not belong in a single family brownstone in zip code 07302. Not to be callous, but if you've been here all your life and have paid off your mortgage on that brownstone but can't afford the taxes you will probably have to sell. You've been getting a sweetheart deal on the backs of those less fortunate and probably should have been more prepared.

The reality, when you look at a map, is that 07302 is the location and size equivalent of Dumbo, Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Vinegar Hill. So if you're priced out of owning in those neighborhoods, you're probably going to very soon be priced out of 07302.

This isn't the end of the world. It will slightly drive down prices downtown as we re-correct and also force folks into the heights, journal square, mcginley, and be-la. Property values there will start to rise just as they did in Fort Greene, Bushwick, and Bed-Stuy.


Agreed that it's not a terrible thing as it will correct prices, which have been over-inflated.

However, those that have been living downtown and are accustomed to amenities like 24/7 subway service to Manhattan, walkable streets, nice architecture, and a reasonable selection of restaurants/bars/cafes, are less likely to disperse to the Heights and Be-La, and more likely to opt for places like Crown Heights, Ridgewood, Bed-Stuy...which are places that are far more similar to DTJC than Heights/Be-La are, and still more affordable than DTJC.


It may show certain people just how limited their options are without having a car.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 22:46
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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third_street_hats wrote:
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user1111 wrote:
The biggest fear I heard last night was if this happens and you are not making 200k a year you just do not belong in zip code 07302 and not many folks were happy about that.


I think that's oversimplifying. More accurate would be if you are not making 200k a year you just do not belong in a single family brownstone in zip code 07302. Not to be callous, but if you've been here all your life and have paid off your mortgage on that brownstone but can't afford the taxes you will probably have to sell. You've been getting a sweetheart deal on the backs of those less fortunate and probably should have been more prepared.

The reality, when you look at a map, is that 07302 is the location and size equivalent of Dumbo, Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Vinegar Hill. So if you're priced out of owning in those neighborhoods, you're probably going to very soon be priced out of 07302.

This isn't the end of the world. It will slightly drive down prices downtown as we re-correct and also force folks into the heights, journal square, mcginley, and be-la. Property values there will start to rise just as they did in Fort Greene, Bushwick, and Bed-Stuy.


How bad do you think a correction in downtown would be? 10%? 15% at the most? I'm thinking whatever correction happens, there's so much pent up housing demand coming in from NYC, any excess inventory would get absorbed quickly and the dip would be very short lived. I'm sure the hedge funds and real estate speculators are also salivating. DTJC is still dirt cheap compared to gentrified areas of Brooklyn and Queens, even with today's prices.


Those neighborhoods don't have the potential of losing Abbott funding, or having it reduced. When this happens (and it will in time), the impact on property taxes could dwarf the reval.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 22:44
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user1111 wrote:
The biggest fear I heard last night was if this happens and you are not making 200k a year you just do not belong in zip code 07302 and not many folks were happy about that.


I think that's oversimplifying. More accurate would be if you are not making 200k a year you just do not belong in a single family brownstone in zip code 07302. Not to be callous, but if you've been here all your life and have paid off your mortgage on that brownstone but can't afford the taxes you will probably have to sell. You've been getting a sweetheart deal on the backs of those less fortunate and probably should have been more prepared.

The reality, when you look at a map, is that 07302 is the location and size equivalent of Dumbo, Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Vinegar Hill. So if you're priced out of owning in those neighborhoods, you're probably going to very soon be priced out of 07302.

This isn't the end of the world. It will slightly drive down prices downtown as we re-correct and also force folks into the heights, journal square, mcginley, and be-la. Property values there will start to rise just as they did in Fort Greene, Bushwick, and Bed-Stuy.


Agreed that it's not a terrible thing as it will correct prices, which have been over-inflated.

However, those that have been living downtown and are accustomed to amenities like 24/7 subway service to Manhattan, walkable streets, nice architecture, and a reasonable selection of restaurants/bars/cafes, are less likely to disperse to the Heights and Be-La, and more likely to opt for places like Crown Heights, Ridgewood, Bed-Stuy...which are places that are far more similar to DTJC than Heights/Be-La are, and still more affordable than DTJC.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 22:22
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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third_street_hats wrote:
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user1111 wrote:
The biggest fear I heard last night was if this happens and you are not making 200k a year you just do not belong in zip code 07302 and not many folks were happy about that.


I think that's oversimplifying. More accurate would be if you are not making 200k a year you just do not belong in a single family brownstone in zip code 07302. Not to be callous, but if you've been here all your life and have paid off your mortgage on that brownstone but can't afford the taxes you will probably have to sell. You've been getting a sweetheart deal on the backs of those less fortunate and probably should have been more prepared.

The reality, when you look at a map, is that 07302 is the location and size equivalent of Dumbo, Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Vinegar Hill. So if you're priced out of owning in those neighborhoods, you're probably going to very soon be priced out of 07302.

This isn't the end of the world. It will slightly drive down prices downtown as we re-correct and also force folks into the heights, journal square, mcginley, and be-la. Property values there will start to rise just as they did in Fort Greene, Bushwick, and Bed-Stuy.


How bad do you think a correction in downtown would be? 10%? 15% at the most? I'm thinking whatever correction happens, there's so much pent up housing demand coming in from NYC, any excess inventory would get absorbed quickly and the dip would be very short lived. I'm sure the hedge funds and real estate speculators are also salivating. DTJC is still dirt cheap compared to gentrified areas of Brooklyn and Queens, even with today's prices.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 22:21
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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user1111 wrote:
The biggest fear I heard last night was if this happens and you are not making 200k a year you just do not belong in zip code 07302 and not many folks were happy about that.


I think that's oversimplifying. More accurate would be if you are not making 200k a year you just do not belong in a single family brownstone in zip code 07302. Not to be callous, but if you've been here all your life and have paid off your mortgage on that brownstone but can't afford the taxes you will probably have to sell. You've been getting a sweetheart deal on the backs of those less fortunate and probably should have been more prepared.

The reality, when you look at a map, is that 07302 is the location and size equivalent of Dumbo, Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Vinegar Hill. So if you're priced out of owning in those neighborhoods, you're probably going to very soon be priced out of 07302.

This isn't the end of the world. It will slightly drive down prices downtown as we re-correct and also force folks into the heights, journal square, mcginley, and be-la. Property values there will start to rise just as they did in Fort Greene, Bushwick, and Bed-Stuy.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 22:01
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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In other words, the reval, as ordered by the state, will proceed regardless of whatever legal actions the city takes?


I believe it will. The city can appeal the state's order. It has 90 days to do so.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 21:57
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One thing I'm unclear on - can the city still appeal at this point? If that option is available, it almost certainly sounds like what they plan to do.

If that happens, is a stay put on the reval order? The city would almost certainly lose the appeal - but would that mean we're looking at a reval and new tax numbers happening later than 2018?


The city can appeal and says it will. But I've received no indication from the state that they think the reval case has anything to do with their reval order from last week.


In other words, the reval, as ordered by the state, will proceed regardless of whatever legal actions the city takes?

Posted on: 2016/4/12 21:53
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One thing I'm unclear on - can the city still appeal at this point? If that option is available, it almost certainly sounds like what they plan to do.

If that happens, is a stay put on the reval order? The city would almost certainly lose the appeal - but would that mean we're looking at a reval and new tax numbers happening later than 2018?


The city can appeal and says it will. But I've received no indication from the state that they think the reval case has anything to do with their reval order from last week.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 21:47
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The biggest fear I heard last night was if this happens and you are not making 200k a year you just do not belong in zip code 07302 and not many folks were happy about that.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 21:41
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Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal

A tense exchange between Mayor Steve Fulop and a Jersey City pastor on the impending property revaluation capped the launch yesterday of a new interfaith community action group.

Resized Image


The Rev. Alonzo Perry Sr., of the New Hope Missionary Baptist Church, pressed Fulop on why his administration has not moved forward with a citywide reval, one Perry said would shift the city's tax burden from its less affluent neighborhoods to wealthier areas. Fulop's attempts to explain his reasoning for postponing the reval were met with occasional jeers from the crowd of about 850 gathered inside Old Bergen Church for the launch of Jersey City Together.

More


One thing I'm unclear on - can the city still appeal at this point? If that option is available, it almost certainly sounds like what they plan to do.

If that happens, is a stay put on the reval order? The city would almost certainly lose the appeal - but would that mean we're looking at a reval and new tax numbers happening later than 2018?


Given the way the lawsuit against the city by the previous reval company has been progressing, it doesn't seem likely that the city would find a sympathetic judge. Not to mention that, based on the legalities of the matter, an appeal is certain to fail.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 21:39
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Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal

A tense exchange between Mayor Steve Fulop and a Jersey City pastor on the impending property revaluation capped the launch yesterday of a new interfaith community action group.

Resized Image


The Rev. Alonzo Perry Sr., of the New Hope Missionary Baptist Church, pressed Fulop on why his administration has not moved forward with a citywide reval, one Perry said would shift the city's tax burden from its less affluent neighborhoods to wealthier areas. Fulop's attempts to explain his reasoning for postponing the reval were met with occasional jeers from the crowd of about 850 gathered inside Old Bergen Church for the launch of Jersey City Together.

More


One thing I'm unclear on - can the city still appeal at this point? If that option is available, it almost certainly sounds like what they plan to do.

If that happens, is a stay put on the reval order? The city would almost certainly lose the appeal - but would that mean we're looking at a reval and new tax numbers happening later than 2018?

Posted on: 2016/4/12 21:35
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I found it interesting that toward the end of the article, as he's chastising the crowd, Fulop invokes "public service." The only thing Fulop serves is himself.


True, but you could say this about 99% of other politicians. The system is just completely broken, probably irredeemably so.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 21:34
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Is there anywhere we can find the 'changes' that Fulop wants the state to do to the reval process?

Posted on: 2016/4/12 21:23
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I found it interesting that toward the end of the article, as he's chastising the crowd, Fulop invokes "public service." The only thing Fulop serves is himself.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 21:00
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Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal

A tense exchange between Mayor Steve Fulop and a Jersey City pastor on the impending property revaluation capped the launch yesterday of a new interfaith community action group.

Resized Image


The Rev. Alonzo Perry Sr., of the New Hope Missionary Baptist Church, pressed Fulop on why his administration has not moved forward with a citywide reval, one Perry said would shift the city's tax burden from its less affluent neighborhoods to wealthier areas. Fulop's attempts to explain his reasoning for postponing the reval were met with occasional jeers from the crowd of about 850 gathered inside Old Bergen Church for the launch of Jersey City Together.

More

Posted on: 2016/4/12 19:10
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stateaidguy wrote:

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Yvonne wrote:
In case you missed - JC will get $20 million less in state aid. Since 2005, local taxpayers have paid $40 million more to the budget. The state froze our payment at $72 million since 1990 but it has been going up and will continue to go up.


Yvonne,

Where did you get the $20 million amount?

The state aid notices show JC getting another $300k.




I corrected her on this a week or so ago. JC schools are getting a bit more this year than last.


Something that surprises me is that the JC BOE's budget process for 2016-17 hasn't gotten any media attention. Maybe I've missed the JCBOE budget stories, but I've read budget articles about much smaller districts.

There's nothing on Public Board Docs on the JCBOE website.

I'm curious about what the increase in the tax levy will be.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 16:49
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stateaidguy wrote:

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Yvonne wrote:
In case you missed - JC will get $20 million less in state aid. Since 2005, local taxpayers have paid $40 million more to the budget. The state froze our payment at $72 million since 1990 but it has been going up and will continue to go up.


Yvonne,

Where did you get the $20 million amount?

The state aid notices show JC getting another $300k.




I corrected her on this a week or so ago. JC schools are getting a bit more this year than last.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 16:37
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Yvonne wrote:
In case you missed - JC will get $20 million less in state aid. Since 2005, local taxpayers have paid $40 million more to the budget. The state froze our payment at $72 million since 1990 but it has been going up and will continue to go up.


Yvonne,

Where did you get the $20 million amount?

The state aid notices show JC getting another $300k.



Posted on: 2016/4/12 14:30
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In case you missed - JC will get $20 million less in state aid. Since 2005, local taxpayers have paid $40 million more to the budget. The state froze our payment at $72 million since 1990 but it has been going up and will continue to go up.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 14:20
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yes, in theory it's a zero sum result. however, what we, the uneducated property taxpayers, don't know is if and what such reval will trigger on county or state level!? if aid/grants decrease as a result of reval, then the total tax burden in absolute $$ terms will go up...


Some people, such as Senator Mike Doherty, have said that there is a connection between Jersey City's tax assessment and state aid, but there is no such connection.

State aid theoretically depends on Equalized Valuation, not the official tax assessment. Equalized Valuation is recalculated every year by the county tax assessor and depends on the ratio of sales to official assessments. Equalized Valuation cannot be manipulated by anything other than PILOTing.

Additionally, Jersey City's state aid is guaranteed by the Adjustment Aid provision in SFRA. Adjustment Aid is a "hold harmless" provision that guarantees that no district (unless it's had massive population loss) can ever get less than 102% of what it got in 2008, when SFRA was passed.

The only way Jersey City could lose aid would be for Adjustment Aid to be eliminated, reformed, or ignored. (yes, the law can be ignored. If a governor proposes a budget that is inconsistent with SFRA but the legislature passes it anyway, the budget is automatically legal. As an example of how SFRA is not followed, due to the 2009 and 2010 revenue collapse, aid cuts, and subsequent pension prioritization, numerous districts receive less aid than they got in 2008, but Jersey City is not among them because the NJ Supreme Court disallowed cuts to the Abbotts in the Abbott XXI decision.)

Sen. Doherty is right that Jersey City is overaided in economic and moral terms, but as far as I know, he has never criticized the Adjustment Aid provision that is the cause of JC's overaiding.

http://njeducationaid.blogspot.com/20 ... ty-reassessment-wont.html

Posted on: 2016/4/12 13:45
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so JC (or any other former blighted area) should get aid in perpetuity even if it has pulled itself way up financially speaking? If JC loses aid that is because there are other more deserving areas - and that is how it should be.


Exactly, and that is a separate issue not dependent on the reval. The matter of JC only covering a tiny fraction of their school budget is something that I am sure will change in the future, but it could drag out for some time.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 13:40
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hudson57 wrote:
yes, in theory it's a zero sum result. however, what we, the uneducated property taxpayers, don't know is if and what such reval will trigger on county or state level!? if aid/grants decrease as a result of reval, then the total tax burden in absolute $$ terms will go up...


What?!? If the total amount of money collected as a result of property taxes remains the same, why do you believe there could be a difference in state/county aid and grants?

Posted on: 2016/4/12 13:38
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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so JC (or any other former blighted area) should get aid in perpetuity even if it has pulled itself way up financially speaking? If JC loses aid that is because there are other more deserving areas - and that is how it should be.

Posted on: 2016/4/12 13:29
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