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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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My wife just informed by the owners that P&K food market will close due to the pedestrian plaza. The rely on people pulling up and double parking to get groceries.

Posted on: 5/26 17:08
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Just wondering as I'm reading these posts: is there a pedestrian plaza being planned anywhere uptown?
Might be a nice thought.

Posted on: 5/26 13:41
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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And just to add - prior to the plaza, a lot of people I know wouldn't have come to Jersey City at all (to hang out). The plaza (and really all the development that's happened downtown in general) brings people to Jersey City, in addition to serving the ones that are already here.

Posted on: 5/26 11:54
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Quote:

DouglasReynholm wrote:
I don't live near Newark. Friends do, these are their issues. If it is such a great idea, and helped established a 'restaurant row' which really is a bar row (which I do partake, respectfully), why not help other communities do the same? Why close only Newark? Aesthetically, it's ugly. Paint the street green and close it, don't do anything to improve the space, just close the street. No plan. Again, they could have renovated the street for 1 lane traffic, widened the sidewalks and close from Friday noon to Monday morning? If the goal is for more 'car free' zones, closing one more block does what? Close and improve other streets in other neighborhoods that really do need a catalyst to improvement?


I guess I'm a bit lost as to what the argument you are trying to make here is. Are you just upset that there isn't a street you can drive on? Do you really think it would be different if they narrowed the street and widened the sidewalks instead? Like everyone else said - see Hoboken. It makes no difference. Where there's supply and demand people will be there, and obviously there's demand downtown for bars and places to socialize. And no restaurants? Since I've moved to Jersey City (which coincidentally was right around the time they started with the pedestrian plaza), at least 8 restaurants have opened up on or within a block of the plaza, not counting the ones I think were already there (Porta, Sawadee, Roman Nose, Skinner's Loft, etc). I can believe that there's noise associated with it - of course there is. Anywhere people are there's bound to be noise.

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If the goal is for more 'car free' zones, closing one more block does what?


It does exactly that - make an area for people to walk around in. It doesn't have to be an entire street.

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Aesthetically, it's ugly. Paint the street green and close it, don't do anything to improve the space, just close the street.


It's not really much different from the ones in NY:
Resized Image


Resized Image


Just a closed street or street area, painted, with some tables and maybe planters. Doesn't mean they can't make it a bit nicer, but that alone doesn't invalidate the idea of it entirely.

And I don't see why the idea can't be replicated elsewhere (I'm also not sure why you're suggesting it considering your dislike of the Newark Ave one, unless you are suggesting it sarcastically). There's already zoning in place for a restaurant row in Bergen-Lafayette, and also on West Side Ave. Perhaps parts of these can be future pedestrian plazas too

Posted on: 5/26 11:50
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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iGreg wrote:
Cluster fuck traffic nightmare today around this area.

The initial closed off street was nice and quaint for the needy in
DTJC but closing the additional streets was a schmucky decision.



The traffic is because Erie is closed for construction between 1st and 2nd. Everyone is forced out to Grove and beyond. The traffic on Newark hasn't been heavy at all since the first plaza went in.

Posted on: 5/25 18:50
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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DouglasReynholm wrote:
Exchange Place is very lightly trafficked, easy to close a dead end street.

There are plans already to revamp Exchange Place.


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Newark Avenue could have widened the sidewalks, converted to one lane, and put an ordinance on the number of bars in a zoned area. Thus reducing the Beale / Bourbon Street effect.

Yeah, keeping auto traffic works great for keeping drunkards in line in Hoboken oh wait, it does no such thing.


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Columbus and Grand SHOULD have center barriers for safety reasons, it's a no brainer, yet, radio silence.

Oh? How many accidents have happened there, which necessitates that specific approach?


Quote:
After 9 PM, this Newark Restaurant Row turns into a nightmare for residents who have lived in the general proximity for years. How about we close your block and open up bars?

Again, spend a few minutes in Hoboken on a weekend evening. Talk about a nightmare for residents.

And if you don't like it, then move. No one offered your buddies a guarantee that they could live above a busy urban street in peace and quiet until the end of time.


Quote:
Proposal to close MLK and Central, just the same as prior to closing Newark Avenue, prop up and create new eating and drinking establishments / businesses and make it a car free zone.

Wow, you obviously spent a lot of time on that idea. Very persuasive.


Quote:
More parks = better quality of life.

What does that have to do with the Newark Avenue pedestrian plaza?


Quote:
I am not against the idea, but it needs to be smarter, with a plan and purpose and zoned better. From what I see, Newark Avenue has been closed for 2 years....still has crumbling sidewalks, cheesy planters, a street painted green. Wow. Fabulous.

Bitch, moan... Yawn

The Newark Avenue pedestrian plaza is pretty much on par with what you see in other cities. E.g. Pedestrian blocks in Europe don't have lawns and gardens, they're just streets blocked off to auto traffic. Many don't even have planters.

Posted on: 5/25 18:16
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Cluster fuck traffic nightmare today around this area.

The initial closed off street was nice and quaint for the needy in
DTJC but closing the additional streets was a schmucky decision.


Posted on: 5/25 17:41
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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DouglasReynholm wrote:

4. After 9 PM, this Newark Restaurant Row turns into a nightmare for residents who have lived in the general proximity for years. How about we close your block and open up bars?



This makes no sense.

First of all, I don't care for the scene on Newark Avenue "after 9pm" either. So guess what, I don't partake. That doesn't mean I think it shouldn't exist. Occasionally I walk home through it if I've been out late, but there are alternate side streets to choose from should I wish to avoid the crowds.

Second, prior to Restaurant Row, there would have been very few reasons to even be hanging out on Newark Avenue, so how has this ruined things for you or created a nightmare? I highly doubt that you were spending your evenings there in tranquility and enjoying wine al fresco.

There were VERY few restaurants, basically limited to Skinner's Loft and some counter service places. After restaurant row came to be, I forget the exact number I counted at the time but something like 8 restaurants appeared in just a few months. The claim that "Newark Restaurant Row turns into a nightmare for residents who have lived in the general proximity for years," neglects to mention that even 10 years ago walking from Grove down Newark meant LITERALLY dodging rats and being on a walk more or less void of any people which is not the safest scenario. Would you really rather there not be this abundance of restaurants and "eyes on the street," so that you can go to Helen's and walk home in silence?

Seems to me that people are awfully quickly forgetting what this area used to look like and/or are unwilling to walk on a parallel side street if the activity on Newark really is so offensive to their sensibilities.

Posted on: 5/25 15:20
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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I don't live near Newark. Friends do, these are their issues. If it is such a great idea, and helped established a 'restaurant row' which really is a bar row (which I do partake, respectfully), why not help other communities do the same? Why close only Newark? Aesthetically, it's ugly. Paint the street green and close it, don't do anything to improve the space, just close the street. No plan. Again, they could have renovated the street for 1 lane traffic, widened the sidewalks and close from Friday noon to Monday morning? If the goal is for more 'car free' zones, closing one more block does what? Close and improve other streets in other neighborhoods that really do need a catalyst to improvement?

Posted on: 5/25 13:13
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Quote:

DouglasReynholm wrote:
Generic response "it's a city, etc..etc...etc.. there's noise in a city..etc..etc".. hit snooze button.

1. Exchange Place is very lightly trafficked, easy to close a dead end street.

2. Newark Avenue could have widened the sidewalks, converted to one lane, and put an ordinance on the number of bars in a zoned area. Thus reducing the Beale / Bourbon Street effect.

3. Columbus and Grand SHOULD have center barriers for safety reasons, it's a no brainer, yet, radio silence.

4. After 9 PM, this Newark Restaurant Row turns into a nightmare for residents who have lived in the general proximity for years. How about we close your block and open up bars?

5. Proposal to close MLK and Central, just the same as prior to closing Newark Avenue, prop up and create new eating and drinking establishments / businesses and make it a car free zone.

6. More parks = better quality of life.

I am not against the idea, but it needs to be smarter, with a plan and purpose and zoned better. From what I see, Newark Avenue has been closed for 2 years....still has crumbling sidewalks, cheesy planters, a street painted green. Wow. Fabulous.


Actually, I live a block away - so essentially they have "closed my block and opened up bars". I have absolutely no problem with it. And I used to live on Montgomery Street, right above a few restaurants. The only noise that actually bothered me was the garbage truck coming at 5AM, and even that I got used to. It sounds more like you're sensitive to noise and apparently the idea of having a nightlife doesn't appeal to you. Which is fine and all...but again, these are characteristics of a city, and part of why people move to them (to be near people, to have things to do in walking distance, to socialize..etc). Call it generic all you want, it's also the reality. If you don't like the idea of people congregating in the area around where you live, maybe move to the suburbs, where you can have a yard and no one else around you.

I won't disagree with you that they could do better in making Newark Ave nicer. There was a plan for putting up trees/planters, not sure what happened with this. It would go a long way towards making it look more friendly and less like a Bourbon Street.

I take it you live on Newark Ave or somewhere close? As JCman said - I don't really see how having the street closed affects drunk people in the area. Before they extended the pedestrian plaza, there were (and still are) a bunch of restaurants and bars further up the street (Pet Shop, Barcade, Ani Ramen, etc...not to mention the ones even further up Newark) and they definitely weren't any quieter at night.

Posted on: 5/25 10:28
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Sorry, I'm not seeing how having cars driving down the road would have any effect on the number of drunk people wandering around. What's the connection?

Posted on: 5/23 14:17
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Generic response "it's a city, etc..etc...etc.. there's noise in a city..etc..etc".. hit snooze button.

1. Exchange Place is very lightly trafficked, easy to close a dead end street.

2. Newark Avenue could have widened the sidewalks, converted to one lane, and put an ordinance on the number of bars in a zoned area. Thus reducing the Beale / Bourbon Street effect.

3. Columbus and Grand SHOULD have center barriers for safety reasons, it's a no brainer, yet, radio silence.

4. After 9 PM, this Newark Restaurant Row turns into a nightmare for residents who have lived in the general proximity for years. How about we close your block and open up bars?

5. Proposal to close MLK and Central, just the same as prior to closing Newark Avenue, prop up and create new eating and drinking establishments / businesses and make it a car free zone.

6. More parks = better quality of life.

I am not against the idea, but it needs to be smarter, with a plan and purpose and zoned better. From what I see, Newark Avenue has been closed for 2 years....still has crumbling sidewalks, cheesy planters, a street painted green. Wow. Fabulous.

Posted on: 5/23 14:07
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Well at least the reval is working out for those folks in downtown Jersey City.

#amenities

Posted on: 5/22 20:49
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Quote:

DouglasReynholm wrote:
Agree with Animal. If it's so great, why did an ordinance just pass: no rooftops after midnight and you cannot re-enter an establishment after 1 am. If they can truly transform Newark into a 'park' that would be great. But the city pushed to have a restaurant row which turned into bar row. It's a closed street painted green. Make new green space by creating parks. What about closing Central Avenue, MLK... close little India (Newark Avenue). No one has to live in a city where pee bottles are tossed all over the place along with disruptive behavior on adjacent streets. What about beautifying Columbus Drive? That needs a central barrier to make it easy to cross (think NYC Park Avenue) and streets not as wide (it's become a raceway). Grand Street could do the same. No, we need one block closed off for what? Add more bars?


I'm not sure why it has to be one or the other. Is it not possible to have both a restaurant row and more green space? We are getting just that - take a look at the plans for Exchange Place.

Some of your other ideas have merit - although I'm a little confused why you're suggesting closing other streets when you seem unhappy about the current pedestrian plaza. Central Ave and MLK would probably be difficult - but that Little India section is basically half a pedestrian plaza already on weekends. And Columbus Ave could definitely use work - I imagine it would be a good place to put some tram/light rail in, or otherwise just the central barrier.

As for the pedestrian plaza - have you ever been there during the day? I was there yesterday to check out the new section. There were lots of people walking around, kids biking and running around, people eating at restaurants. It really brought life to this area and I think most people would agree it's a lot nicer to walk around it than on the sidewalks of Newark Ave. And yes, obviously some people are a little rowdy at night - that's what you get when there is alcohol and large groups of people involved - but unless you are suggesting closing all bars or banning alcohol altogether, I'm not really sure it's not something that more enforcement or more cleaning crew or some tighter regulations (see ordinance recently passed) can't solve. The positive is that it brings social life to the area. I think it's worth a few rowdy people and a bit more noise. At the end of the day, it's a city, not a farm, and there's enough other noise in cities in general (cars driving around, trucks cleaning garbage, etc.) that the alternative isn't silence.

Posted on: 5/22 16:04
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Agree with Animal. If it's so great, why did an ordinance just pass: no rooftops after midnight and you cannot re-enter an establishment after 1 am. If they can truly transform Newark into a 'park' that would be great. But the city pushed to have a restaurant row which turned into bar row. It's a closed street painted green. Make new green space by creating parks. What about closing Central Avenue, MLK... close little India (Newark Avenue). No one has to live in a city where pee bottles are tossed all over the place along with disruptive behavior on adjacent streets. What about beautifying Columbus Drive? That needs a central barrier to make it easy to cross (think NYC Park Avenue) and streets not as wide (it's become a raceway). Grand Street could do the same. No, we need one block closed off for what? Add more bars?

Posted on: 5/22 14:54
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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I love the new pedestrian plaza, but I do agree that rather than being a green space it’s a become a poor man’s Jersey shore with more garbage. Are there plans to add trees or fountains, or even more garbage cans?

Posted on: 5/22 14:30
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

neverleft wrote:
In the 80’s a cobblestone was a hot commodity so much so that there was a shortest of them. In NY, Philly and Jersey City where a few cobblestone streets were still around thieves were ripping up whole streets and selling cobblestones.


When they were doing roadwork in LSP like 2000 there was huge pile of cobbles sitting near the LSP side of the footbridge for years getting covered in weeds. I eventually took some for the garden edges.


Ha in the 70's and 80's PSE&G used to dump cobbles behind Marist HS in Bayonne before the rt 440 connection was completed. I also took many of them for my yard, friends yards and relatives yards.

.

Posted on: 5/22 14:21
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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neverleft wrote:
In the 80’s a cobblestone was a hot commodity so much so that there was a shortest of them. In NY, Philly and Jersey City where a few cobblestone streets were still around thieves were ripping up whole streets and selling cobblestones.


When they were doing roadwork in LSP like 2000 there was huge pile of cobbles sitting near the LSP side of the footbridge for years getting covered in weeds. I eventually took some for the garden edges.

Posted on: 5/22 12:54
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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neverleft wrote:
.
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jc_dweller wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
some cobblestones would enhance he character of the pedestrian zone imo


I agree, but that's $$$. I think they are repaving the street at some point (eliminate the curb), but even that undertaking was a big budget item last I heard, thus the delay.


Interesting all they have to do is remove/peel the blacktop that was used to cover the cobblestones. (there must be some sort of machine that can do that) As you probably know all of JC’s streets were cobblestone at one time. In the 80’s a cobblestone was a hot commodity so much so that there was a shortest of them. In NY, Philly and Jersey City where a few cobblestone streets were still around thieves were ripping up whole streets and selling cobblestones.

1984: How, and why, did somebody steal Mifflin Street?

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/re ... steal-Mifflin-street.html


Yeah when they repaved most of the downtown streets a year or do ago and milled the asphalt down to the cobblestones I had daydreams about how nice that would be.

The reason they can't just mill down Newark to expose the cobblestones is because on a plaza the intent is for the cartway (the part that is green now) to be level with the sidewalk. Tripping hazards as well as the subconscious car/pedestrian conflict remains even when the street is cordoned off as long as the street and sidewalk are different.

Posted on: 5/22 12:17
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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jc_dweller wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
some cobblestones would enhance he character of the pedestrian zone imo


I agree, but that's $$$. I think they are repaving the street at some point (eliminate the curb), but even that undertaking was a big budget item last I heard, thus the delay.


Interesting all they have to do is remove/peel the blacktop that was used to cover the cobblestones. (there must be some sort of machine that can do that) As you probably know all of JC’s streets were cobblestone at one time. In the 80’s a cobblestone was a hot commodity so much so that there was a shortest of them. In NY, Philly and Jersey City where a few cobblestone streets were still around thieves were ripping up whole streets and selling cobblestones.

1984: How, and why, did somebody steal Mifflin Street?

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/re ... steal-Mifflin-street.html

Posted on: 5/22 11:38
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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It's actually nice, but traffic on Jersey ave is a mess. They should turn Jersey Ave into a pedestrian plaza too.

Posted on: 5/22 11:36
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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This is amazing. I hope they start doing it on Grove Street. Would that be impossible?

Posted on: 5/22 10:32
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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I think it is often overlooked and/or realized that you live in a CITY. If you want to get in your car, drive around with no traffic, stop in front of your favorite bakery with a parking spot for your car, leave the city.

Posted on: 5/22 8:53
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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FYI - it's already done.

Resized ImageResized Image

Posted on: 5/21 20:05
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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DouglasReynholm wrote:
Pee-destrian. Barrow will have to be closed from Columbus to Bay. Bay going westbound can turn right at Barrow.

Personally, the space is ugly. It is a street painted green. People living from 3 Street to Newark are littered with wandering drunks, bottles full of pee, loud talkers and cars circling their blocks looking for parking. Maybe making more green parks is a better answer to car free zones. This is mini-Beale Street. It's cheesy.


Look again at the link in post #39. Looks to me like Barrow will remain open (northbound-only) from Columbus to Newark and that intersection where it does the little jog over to Erie will remain open.

Direct link (Thanks, Leigh13) is here:

Pedestrian Plaza

Posted on: 5/21 17:33
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza
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hamhock wrote:
Tender Shoot Farm did not close because of the pedestrian plaza. That's silly.


Further, despite what jcvoter Solomon says, the landlord has had several offers (some immediate) to rent the space, but they waited for a better suited tenant.

Posted on: 5/21 16:49
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Pee-destrian. Barrow will have to be closed from Columbus to Bay. Bay going westbound can turn right at Barrow.

Personally, the space is ugly. It is a street painted green. People living from 3 Street to Newark are littered with wandering drunks, bottles full of pee, loud talkers and cars circling their blocks looking for parking. Maybe making more green parks is a better answer to car free zones. This is mini-Beale Street. It's cheesy.

Posted on: 5/21 16:24
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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hero69 wrote:
some cobblestones would enhance he character of the pedestrian zone imo


I agree, but that's $$$. I think they are repaving the street at some point (eliminate the curb), but even that undertaking was a big budget item last I heard, thus the delay.

Posted on: 5/21 16:15
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Does anyone know where the delivery trucks can park to deliver stuff to businesses in this area?
Looks like it closed starting today till July 19th.

Thanks

Posted on: 5/21 15:00
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Cool to see the expansion. Hopefully the pilot phase will uncover any problems with the plan and allow them to be fixed for a permanent implementation.

Here's the announcement from Mayor Fulop and the image of the expanded plans.

Resized Image

Posted on: 5/21 12:22
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