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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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avinandre wrote:
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jc201jc wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy


FWIW I looked into 10 Provost Square (new building near Grove St PATH) a few weeks ago and they have no tax abatement...so maybe the tide is starting to turn.


Condos with tax abatement still pays fair taxes..

All the rental buildings are still getting 30 year tax abatements. T

Look up the tax records for owners of abated properties, it's not hard if you know the address. Check out what they pay it's a fraction of what a normal taxed property is around here.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 23:55
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Monroe wrote:
Since JC gets almost as much from other state taxpayers to support JC schools as its total budget it's laughable to say JC had high taxes, especially given the proposed 1.62 rate.


Where is stateaidguy when you need him? That 1.62 rate is a pretty big hammer...


If you think that 1.62 is a big hammer, just wait a year or two. Once the county decides to adjust the JC contribution, it will go up. And, there is a very good chance that the state will cut back on the school funding, which will also lead to a higher school tax for residents. Also, if the market valuations drop, the rate will have to go up to compensate for the drop. I wouldn't be surprised to see a rate of 2% (or, higher) in the next few years.


The elephant is the possible cut to JC school funding.

Market valuation drops and County increases won't move the needle much. Market valuations are likely to drop near uniformly state-wide. And post-Hoboken reval - the County increased Hoboken taxes by 11.6% - but only ~1/4 of that would have hit the City rate. That kind of increase wouldn't even move the JC rate above 1.7%.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... _by_45_percent_hobok.html

Posted on: 2018/2/17 21:02
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Yvonne wrote:
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papadage wrote:
I don't feel bad for a person sitting on a multimillion dollar pot of equity.


You see it as equity, others see it as a home.


There is your problem: the two premises are NOT mutually exclusive.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 20:31
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papadage wrote:
I don't feel bad for a person sitting on a multimillion dollar pot of equity.


You see it as equity, others see it as a home.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 20:15
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I don't feel bad for a person sitting on a multimillion dollar pot of equity.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 18:18
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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avinandre wrote:
This a general term used to provide housing to people under threshold may be by rental units with much lower rent in that area. Builder allocate some % units under affordable housing and get tax rebates ..

However this doesn't work rents are still higher and no one gains except for poor billionaire builders.

example:
http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... y_struggles_to_defin.html

The tax burden falls on to us.

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Bike_Lane wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
At every council meeting the public officials are saying we need affordable housing, ignoring the fact that affordable housing will not pay the same taxes as everyone else. Those taxes are pushed off to the homeowners I mentioned. It is wrong to say one group should have affordable housing and another group is not paying their fair share of taxes.


This post makes no sense. Affordable housing means housing that is affordable for people who earn x% of the area median income, not tax-free housing. If that housing is less valuable than other housing then it would, of course, be taxed based on a lower assessed value. Do you confuse affordable housing with public housing?



When my former neighbor received her $35,000 new tax bill under the revaluation, it has nothing to do with her ability to pay. The woman is 90 years old. Stop rationalizing that one group should have affordable housing and another should pay the full price. In 1988, Hispanic homeowners and senior citizens were the victims of the revaluations. They lost their homes, the collection rate fell to 70% in Jersey City, the previous year it was above 90%. This was the days before the ciity got into the business of selling liens on a yearly basis to make up the shortfall.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 16:50
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Monroe wrote:
Enough. If you own a million dollar property you'll likely pay $16,250 in taxes. In most NJ suburbs that's a deal, because those taxpayers are sending $500 million each year to pay to educate JC kids.


You're being generous in stating that this money is educating kids. It's definitely spent on the education system, but said system is hardly educating JC kids.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 15:48

Edited by HeightsNative on 2018/2/17 16:12:20
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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avinandre wrote:
A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Translation: I want to buy too much house regardless of the financial implications.


Prices have inflated a lot in last 3 years so I don't think that equate well here and reval is happening at the peak.


Your response just proves that you just do not understand how the reval works. The reval happening at peak does not matter one bit! The municipal budget has to be funded, and the tax receipts AFTER the reval will remain the same as BEFORE the reval. If the reval had been completed four years ago, as originally intended, then we would have ended up with lower aggregate valuations, which would have resulted in a higher rate.

Aggregate Value * Tax Rate = Tax Revenue

The value on the right is (essentially) fixed so the values on the left go up or down as necessary.

There is one aspect of the market being at a peak, that actually matters, and it is beneficial to DTJC homeowners: the past fours years have seen values in areas outside of DTJC starting to really heat up. In other words, the gap in valuation has narrowed somewhat, which means that the burden on DTJC homeowners was actually lessened as to compared to what would have happened in the reval had been completed in 2013-2014. In others, DTJC homeowners got a benefit (perhaps unintended) when the mayor cancelled the reval and sought delay after delay.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 15:35
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Enough. If you own a million dollar property you'll likely pay $16,250 in taxes. In most NJ suburbs that's a deal, because those taxpayers are sending $500 million each year to pay to educate JC kids.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 14:21
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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HeightsNative wrote:
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avinandre wrote:
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jc201jc wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy


FWIW I looked into 10 Provost Square (new building near Grove St PATH) a few weeks ago and they have no tax abatement...so maybe the tide is starting to turn.


Condos with tax abatement still pays fair taxes..

All the rental buildings are still getting 30 year tax abatements. T


But precisely ZERO of that PILOT money goes towards JC schools. The state makes up the difference.

What is so hard for you guys to understand about abuses and overused of abatements? Yes they're useful. But downtown hasn't needed to give them out for the last 10 years, but they have. Like candy.


So where the money goes ? Something is broken within system, right ? no body is freaking about fair taxes but the broken system which could have made things better for everyone.

What I was saying is the benefit doesn't fall on middle class.. Its super rich builders of JC getting all benefits and burdens is on us.

Imagine 80% rentals buildings pops out and are made condos for primary residence .. What happens to prices in JC ?

Posted on: 2018/2/17 14:08
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avinandre wrote:
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jc201jc wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy


FWIW I looked into 10 Provost Square (new building near Grove St PATH) a few weeks ago and they have no tax abatement...so maybe the tide is starting to turn.


Condos with tax abatement still pays fair taxes..

All the rental buildings are still getting 30 year tax abatements. T


But precisely ZERO of that PILOT money goes towards JC schools. The state makes up the difference.

What is so hard for you guys to understand about abuses and overused of abatements? Yes they're useful. But downtown hasn't needed to give them out for the last 10 years, but they have. Like candy.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 13:47
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I'm still gobsmacked how people who didn't care about the size of the budget, or how it was funded, have now found religion once they have to pay their fair share. Remember, the reval doesn't increase tax collections-it reapportions them according to present value, not the values of 28 years ago.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 12:40
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hero69 wrote:
well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy


FWIW I looked into 10 Provost Square (new building near Grove St PATH) a few weeks ago and they have no tax abatement...so maybe the tide is starting to turn.


Condos with tax abatement still pays fair taxes..

All the rental buildings are still getting 30 year tax abatements. T

Posted on: 2018/2/17 12:32
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hero69 wrote:
well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy


FWIW I looked into 10 Provost Square (new building near Grove St PATH) a few weeks ago and they have no tax abatement...so maybe the tide is starting to turn.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 6:36
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well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy

Posted on: 2018/2/17 5:25
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This a general term used to provide housing to people under threshold may be by rental units with much lower rent in that area. Builder allocate some % units under affordable housing and get tax rebates ..

However this doesn't work rents are still higher and no one gains except for poor billionaire builders.

example:
http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... y_struggles_to_defin.html

The tax burden falls on to us.

Quote:

Bike_Lane wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
At every council meeting the public officials are saying we need affordable housing, ignoring the fact that affordable housing will not pay the same taxes as everyone else. Those taxes are pushed off to the homeowners I mentioned. It is wrong to say one group should have affordable housing and another group is not paying their fair share of taxes.


This post makes no sense. Affordable housing means housing that is affordable for people who earn x% of the area median income, not tax-free housing. If that housing is less valuable than other housing then it would, of course, be taxed based on a lower assessed value. Do you confuse affordable housing with public housing?


Posted on: 2018/2/17 3:46
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Yvonne wrote:
At every council meeting the public officials are saying we need affordable housing, ignoring the fact that affordable housing will not pay the same taxes as everyone else. Those taxes are pushed off to the homeowners I mentioned. It is wrong to say one group should have affordable housing and another group is not paying their fair share of taxes.


This post makes no sense. Affordable housing means housing that is affordable for people who earn x% of the area median income, not tax-free housing. If that housing is less valuable than other housing then it would, of course, be taxed based on a lower assessed value. Do you confuse affordable housing with public housing?

Posted on: 2018/2/17 3:19
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Agreed and these appeasement politics should end it just rips society apart.

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Yvonne wrote:
At every council meeting the public officials are saying we need affordable housing, ignoring the fact that affordable housing will not pay the same taxes as everyone else. Those taxes are pushed off to the homeowners I mentioned. It is wrong to say one group should have affordable housing and another group is not paying their fair share of taxes.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 0:45
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If the tax burden also get shitted well to super rich builders I don't think the rate would be 1.62 and would be much lower. Agreed every one should pay as per property price increase but still with new tax code and everything people of JC will feel the pain for a long time.



HCResident wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

avinandre wrote:
A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Translation: I want to buy too much house regardless of the financial implications.


I can think of many people who paid $40,000 to $70,000 for their homes and got $30,000 or more tax bill. In the meanwhile the city has been handing out tax abatements for newer developments at every chance they get. "Make JC Yours" was all about selling JC cheap with those tax abatements.


What don’t you understand about this? Value of property has nothing to do with what you paid to purchase it. You of all people know this. You sold property downtown. Did you sell for the same amount you paid for it?

We all know you didn’t. Property taxes are based on property value. If the value goes up, the taxes go up.

Yet, Jersey City has gone 30 years where the taxes weren’t levied according to real value. Now the chickens have come home to roost.

So sorry peoples’ property values went up. They should have held their representatives’ feet to the fire and made them do this on a timely basis. Then there wouldn’t be all this sticker shock.

But let’s be honest. They all wanted the rewards of raising property values, without the ramifications of them. I can’t get a whole lot of sympathy worked up for this.[/quote]

Posted on: 2018/2/17 0:40
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Well when they brought the property it was certainly not 1M may be half the price.

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papadage wrote:
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avinandre wrote:
The tax payment should be similar for all. While builders like lefrak get big tax abatement on rental properties in Newport ? Does tax system treat everyone similarly ? A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Quote:

DouglasReynholm wrote:
Property taxes should be fair. If your house (living in downtown is worth 1,000,000 - you should pay 16,000 and if you live in a poorer area of our city, say Greenville, and your house is worth 200,000, you should pay 3200. That's fair and equal. If a lawyer, living in a brownstone, worth 1,000,000 cannot afford to pay another 6,000 (and with new tax law, exempt it from his taxes beyond 10,000), he or she needs to reconsider what to do with the property. I have a feeling the lawyer will be able to afford the 60 percent increase. I know it sucks, but fair is fair and other parts of the city should not be taxed unequally and disadvantaged.


The mortgage alone, without taxes, on a $1MM property, assuming a 20% down payment, totals to more than the entire median household income of the US. An average family could not afford to live in a place like that, even if they did not need to eat, or have any electricity usage, or any other expenses at all. Not even any federal taxes.

Translation:

Yes.. only rich people can afford million dollar properties.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 0:22
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avinandre wrote:
A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Translation: I want to buy too much house regardless of the financial implications.


Prices have inflated a lot in last 3 years so I don't think that equate well here and reval is happening at the peak.

Posted on: 2018/2/17 0:19
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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At every council meeting the public officials are saying we need affordable housing, ignoring the fact that affordable housing will not pay the same taxes as everyone else. Those taxes are pushed off to the homeowners I mentioned. It is wrong to say one group should have affordable housing and another group is not paying their fair share of taxes.

Posted on: 2018/2/16 23:42
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Yvonne wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

avinandre wrote:
A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Translation: I want to buy too much house regardless of the financial implications.


I can think of many people who paid $40,000 to $70,000 for their homes and got $30,000 or more tax bill. In the meanwhile the city has been handing out tax abatements for newer developments at every chance they get. "Make JC Yours" was all about selling JC cheap with those tax abatements.


What don’t you understand about this? Value of property has nothing to do with what you paid to purchase it. You of all people know this. You sold property downtown. Did you sell for the same amount you paid for it?

We all know you didn’t. Property taxes are based on property value. If the value goes up, the taxes go up.

Yet, Jersey City has gone 30 years where the taxes weren’t levied according to real value. Now the chickens have come home to roost.

So sorry peoples’ property values went up. They should have held their representatives’ feet to the fire and made them do this on a timely basis. Then there wouldn’t be all this sticker shock.

But let’s be honest. They all wanted the rewards of raising property values, without the ramifications of them. I can’t get a whole lot of sympathy worked up for this.

Posted on: 2018/2/16 23:20
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avinandre wrote:
The tax payment should be similar for all. While builders like lefrak get big tax abatement on rental properties in Newport ? Does tax system treat everyone similarly ? A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Quote:

DouglasReynholm wrote:
Property taxes should be fair. If your house (living in downtown is worth 1,000,000 - you should pay 16,000 and if you live in a poorer area of our city, say Greenville, and your house is worth 200,000, you should pay 3200. That's fair and equal. If a lawyer, living in a brownstone, worth 1,000,000 cannot afford to pay another 6,000 (and with new tax law, exempt it from his taxes beyond 10,000), he or she needs to reconsider what to do with the property. I have a feeling the lawyer will be able to afford the 60 percent increase. I know it sucks, but fair is fair and other parts of the city should not be taxed unequally and disadvantaged.


The mortgage alone, without taxes, on a $1MM property, assuming a 20% down payment, totals to more than the entire median household income of the US. An average family could not afford to live in a place like that, even if they did not need to eat, or have any electricity usage, or any other expenses at all. Not even any federal taxes.

Translation:

Yes.. only rich people can afford million dollar properties.

Posted on: 2018/2/16 23:14
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It's a good thing taxes are not based on 30 year old values then, isn't it?

Posted on: 2018/2/16 23:11
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avinandre wrote:
A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Translation: I want to buy too much house regardless of the financial implications.


I can think of many people who paid $40,000 to $70,000 for their homes and got $30,000 or more tax bill. In the meanwhile the city has been handing out tax abatements for newer developments at every chance they get. "Make JC Yours" was all about selling JC cheap with those tax abatements.

Posted on: 2018/2/16 22:57
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avinandre wrote:
A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Translation: I want to buy too much house regardless of the financial implications.

Posted on: 2018/2/16 22:51
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The tax payment should be similar for all. While builders like lefrak get big tax abatement on rental properties in Newport ? Does tax system treat everyone similarly ? A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Quote:

DouglasReynholm wrote:
Property taxes should be fair. If your house (living in downtown is worth 1,000,000 - you should pay 16,000 and if you live in a poorer area of our city, say Greenville, and your house is worth 200,000, you should pay 3200. That's fair and equal. If a lawyer, living in a brownstone, worth 1,000,000 cannot afford to pay another 6,000 (and with new tax law, exempt it from his taxes beyond 10,000), he or she needs to reconsider what to do with the property. I have a feeling the lawyer will be able to afford the 60 percent increase. I know it sucks, but fair is fair and other parts of the city should not be taxed unequally and disadvantaged.

Posted on: 2018/2/16 22:05
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tictaktoe wrote:
are you nuts?


Some things are self evident. What is not is that this creature claims to have taught children in school! That essay gets a D.


What is evident is the fact, I challenge you, Brewster to attend the next budget hearing, but instead like school children that you quote, prefer to engage in personal attacks. The playground at schools is full of this childish behavior.

Posted on: 2018/2/16 18:49
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are you nuts?


Some things are self evident. What is not is that this creature claims to have taught children in school! That essay gets a D.

Posted on: 2018/2/16 16:40
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