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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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philasurfer wrote:
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JennyMayla wrote: Ok. I'm cool with that. As are my battery of attorneys. And my good karma. See you at the dog park! (I actually think that my homeowners insurance covers it as long as it happens in my home. Fingers crossed.)


I think homeowners covers you even if it is off your property in many cases. Anyway, I apologize for saying you were irresponsible personally. You probably are a highly responsible person, my point was to say we should make insurance mandatory and it is irresponsible for our society to allow dog bite victims to go uncompensated.



Phil, Thank you for clarifying your reply.

I think all of us, the dog owners and non dog owners who are responsible citizens (for the most part) and decent to our neighbors (for the most part) won't disagree with you that: any victim who has suffered real emotional and/or physical damage should never go uncompensated.

(side note)
thanks for fixing that "other thing" that I haven't a clue what Vigilante is speaking of. Now, I must get some sleep if plan on living till I'm 101.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 5:26
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Vigilante wrote:
and then deep-frying them Pinky........!



shhhhh, you didn't see that.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 4:43
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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JennyMayla wrote: Ok. I'm cool with that. As are my battery of attorneys. And my good karma. See you at the dog park! (I actually think that my homeowners insurance covers it as long as it happens in my home. Fingers crossed.)


I think homeowners covers you even if it is off your property in many cases. Anyway, I apologize for saying you were irresponsible personally. You probably are a highly responsible person, my point was to say we should make insurance mandatory and it is irresponsible for our society to allow dog bite victims to go uncompensated.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 4:42
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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and then deep-frying them Pinky........!

Posted on: 2009/1/22 4:41
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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r_pinkowitz wrote: because a person does not have dog insurance in no way makes them irresponsible....I feel really bad for the person attacked, feel the owner of those dogs is a real $hit-head breeding them in her apartment....The end!


Sorry, I wasn't being clear. It makes us irresponsible as a society for not requiring people to have insurance for dogs.
Im not saying Jennymayls is irresponsible, just using that as an example of why we should make dog insurance mandatory.

Also, it is the end, as you say, until someone else is bitten by a dog.



I'm sure there will be dog bites long after I'm 101 and finally decide to die, if it has teeth, it can bite.

This situation was also a unique one, a non qualified person owned these dogs for the purpose of breeding and making profit from it. This is not a typical situation of the average dog owner. http://jumbaboerboels.com/home


now fix my typo in your quote....TIA

Posted on: 2009/1/22 4:35
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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r_pinkowitz wrote: because a person does not have dog insurance in no way makes them irresponsible....I feel really bad for the person attacked, feel the owner of those dogs is a real shit-head breeding them in her apartment....The end!


Sorry, I wasn't being clear. It makes us irresponsible as a society for not requiring people to have insurance for dogs.
Im not saying Jennymayls is irresponsible, just using that as an example of why we should make dog insurance mandatory.

Also, it is the end, as you say, until someone else is bitten by a dog.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 4:25
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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JennyMayal wrote: Guess what? MY DOG BITES! She bit me twice in the almost eight years I have had her. Both times were specific incidents when she felt threatened and freaked out. She's a shelter girl and she has some issues. But she's gorgeous so she can deal with her personality disorder -- on a leash, with my supervision. I don't let her run around small people and I warn all people (casually so as not to create fear) when they meet her for the first time. That's my responsibility and that's the deal she and I made when I got her. 99% of the time she is the greatest dog in the world, but that 1% is something I take very seriously. The issue is not dogs biting as much as it is that the owners bear great responsibility for their pets. Oh, kids bite too. Adults even bite. Go figure.


You write this, but don't have insurance? This is precisely why it should be mandatory for dog owners to have insurance.

You have a dog you know bites people, then say you " owners bear great responsibility for their pets."

Well, in the unfortunate and unlikely event your dog bites someone, that person will be SOL. They will have steep medical bills, pain and suffering, possible scarring and you probably have no way to compensate them. That is not taking responsibility for your pet, Im sorry.



Chill Phil...First of all...because a person does not have dog insurance in no way makes them irresponsible. I have it because I was required by the condo where I once lived and it's become a habit. I am an owner of an Akita and made this choice, I was asked when getting the insurance for my home if I owned a dog and I did so, I included her.

I don't know if every insurance company asks that question and that's why I stated "correct me if I'm wrong" in my original post. I work in a place that requires me to deal with insurance companies daily and I know how they will try to deny a claim....I cross my T's and dot my I's... that's me and my choice.

In no way do I feel if someone doesn't do as I do ..they are irresponsible and in no way is my post on insurance siding with you..... I have no opinions that I care to share on your postings.....just not my thingie to get into a pissing match on this topic. I feel really bad for the person attacked, feel the owner of those dogs is a real $hit-head breeding them in her apartment....The end!

Posted on: 2009/1/22 4:18
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Assumption that jennymayla is asset-less fail.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 4:17
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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philasurfer wrote:
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JennyMayal wrote: Guess what? MY DOG BITES! She bit me twice in the almost eight years I have had her. Both times were specific incidents when she felt threatened and freaked out. She's a shelter girl and she has some issues. But she's gorgeous so she can deal with her personality disorder -- on a leash, with my supervision. I don't let her run around small people and I warn all people (casually so as not to create fear) when they meet her for the first time. That's my responsibility and that's the deal she and I made when I got her. 99% of the time she is the greatest dog in the world, but that 1% is something I take very seriously. The issue is not dogs biting as much as it is that the owners bear great responsibility for their pets. Oh, kids bite too. Adults even bite. Go figure.


You write this, but don't have insurance? This is precisely why it should be mandatory for dog owners to have insurance.

You have a dog you know bites people, then say you " owners bear great responsibility for their pets."

Well, in the unfortunate and unlikely event your dog bites someone, that person will be SOL. They will have steep medical bills, pain and suffering, possible scarring and you probably have no way to compensate them. That is not taking responsibility for your pet, Im sorry.


Ok. I'm cool with that. As are my battery of attorneys. And my good karma.

See you at the dog park!

(I actually think that my homeowners insurance covers it as long as it happens in my home. Fingers crossed.)

Posted on: 2009/1/22 4:05
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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JennyMayal wrote: Guess what? MY DOG BITES! She bit me twice in the almost eight years I have had her. Both times were specific incidents when she felt threatened and freaked out. She's a shelter girl and she has some issues. But she's gorgeous so she can deal with her personality disorder -- on a leash, with my supervision. I don't let her run around small people and I warn all people (casually so as not to create fear) when they meet her for the first time. That's my responsibility and that's the deal she and I made when I got her. 99% of the time she is the greatest dog in the world, but that 1% is something I take very seriously. The issue is not dogs biting as much as it is that the owners bear great responsibility for their pets. Oh, kids bite too. Adults even bite. Go figure.


You write this, but don't have insurance? This is precisely why it should be mandatory for dog owners to have insurance.

You have a dog you know bites people, then say you " owners bear great responsibility for their pets."

Well, in the unfortunate and unlikely event your dog bites someone, that person will be SOL. They will have steep medical bills, pain and suffering, possible scarring and you probably have no way to compensate them. That is not taking responsibility for your pet, Im sorry.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 4:02
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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philasurfer wrote:

Jenny, do you have insurance in case your dog bites someone?


Nope. And I'm not worried about it. Thanks though!

Posted on: 2009/1/22 3:57
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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HudsonHorizones wrote: Hypocritical know-it-all fail.


I love it when people put "fail" at the end of a sentence and think that makes it a solid point.

I used the phrase, "facts are stubborn things" because I presented a series of facts, which people were disputing, but the facts remain the same, therefore, those facts are stubborn.

Using that phrase does not mean you must use hard facts in every sentence you use. My reference to dogs "representing probably half the population of Jersey City" was not presented as a fact. I used the word "probably" for a reason.

Of all the things I wrote, if that is what you can come up with, as a "fail", I will take that as a compliment.

Understanding of the expression "facts are stubborn things" fail.

Try again.

Quote:
JannyMayla wrote: MY DOG BITES! .... The issue is not dogs biting as much as it is that the owners bear great responsibility for their pets.


Jenny, do you have insurance in case your dog bites someone?

Posted on: 2009/1/22 3:46
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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r_pinkowitz wrote:
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Vigilante wrote:
The information provided using this Web site is only intended to be general summary information to the public.


I agree with your reply about the being "general".
It's my understanding that over 75% of dog bites are from the pet of family or friends, and 50% of attacks occur on the dog owner's property.

I think when throwing out stats about dog bites, it really needs to be broken down.


Ummm, thanks kind stranger for the pm, that's what I get for posting while watching A.I. : )


statistics not statics

Posted on: 2009/1/22 2:58
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Animal shelter workers get bit all the time but they keep coming back for more.


It's part of our job. We have to use our best judgement when handing a particular animal. I find cat scratches to be a more frequent nuissance but anything is possible.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 2:40
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Im open to other ideas that anyone might have to improve dog-human relations, but with dogs representing probably half the population of Jersey City, this will be a recurring problem and deserves attention.


Hmmmm, if "facts are stubborn things", what would you call completely off-base, fact-free generalizations?

Hypocritical know-it-all fail.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 2:38
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Ludo Wrote: Lets say you get your wish and dog owners have to be licensed and pay big bucks to do so. How do you plan on enforcing this law, when the city doesn't enforce the law currently on the books about licensing dogs until there is an incident or another law is broken? And you keep talking about cars being a necessary evil that is highly regulated, but there are plenty of people driving around without insurance or in some cases even a license. How would your law be any different?


Honestly, I think any law would come about through a discussion between dog owners, non dog-owners, law enforcement, etc. I can't possibly know enough to write the law for you right now.

But nothing is more annoying to me than "Group-Think", which is what happens on this board with the dog owners calling anyone who is concerned about dog bites "hysterical". Or suggest that you must hate dogs if you think something should be done to limit dog bites. It would be stupid for me to ask why these dog owners hate children, the most common victims of dog bites, but its the same silly implication? Its a problem, people are victims and the problem deserves to be addressed. The knee-jerk reaction from dog owners is that any suggestion of a problem or better regulation is heresy and anti-dog sentiments need to be crushed.

But I can offer my personal suggestion. First, the big bucks people pay for licenses would be used to pay enforcement officers to patrol and respond to complaints. Perhaps there could be a hotline to report owners who leave dog shit on sidewalks, or whose dogs act threatening. etc.

Now if your irresponsible dog owners is caught leaving shit on the sidewalk, well then an investigation might reveal the dog owner doesn't have a license. Im open to other ideas that anyone might have to improve dog-human relations, but with dogs representing probably half the population of Jersey City, this will be a recurring problem and deserves attention.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 2:09
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Guess what?

MY DOG BITES!

She bit me twice in the almost eight years I have had her. Both times were specific incidents when she felt threatened and freaked out. She's a shelter girl and she has some issues. But she's gorgeous so she can deal with her personality disorder -- on a leash, with my supervision. I don't let her run around small people and I warn all people (casually so as not to create fear) when they meet her for the first time. That's my responsibility and that's the deal she and I made when I got her. 99% of the time she is the greatest dog in the world, but that 1% is something I take very seriously.

The issue is not dogs biting as much as it is that the owners bear great responsibility for their pets.

Oh, kids bite too. Adults even bite.

Go figure.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 1:59
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Philasurfer- Lets say you get your wish and dog owners have to be licensed and pay big bucks to do so. How do you plan on enforcing this law, when the city doesn't enforce the law currently on the books about licensing dogs until there is an incident or another law is broken?

And you keep talking about cars being a necessary evil that is highly regulated, but there are plenty of people driving around without insurance or in some cases even a license. How would your law be any different? The good dog owners would shell out the bucks to make sure they didn't have any problems, but the bad dog owners would just ignore the law and we would have the same problems we have now.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 1:56
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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my 2 cents on the insurance thing... and, I will be straying off topic a bit.

1)IMO, EVERYONE should have insurance with or without a dog. It protects you and your property in the event of ie: fire, theft etc. Nothing sadder for me, then seeing a family burnt out, loose everything and have zero insurance, and most are renters that have no clue that the owners insurance does not cover them.

2)IMO, there is nothing wrong with a property owner requiring the tenant to have insurance if they own a dog (dogs with no teeth excluded). In some states the owner of the property can also be held liable for dog bites on their property. A dog owner that carries liability insurance with a rider for their dog also protects them outside of the home.

For any renter or homeowner that has insurance and correct me if I'm wrong:
I've never seen a policy that hasn't asked if you own a dog that resides on the property. If you do not disclose this information and you report a loss your claim may be denied because you gave false information on your application or did not follow the terms by amending the policy. That reason alone I would tell the truth and get the dog on the policy.

I have renters insurance and I include my dog on the policy. I own a very large dog and only certain companies will write a renters insurance policy that includes her.
I pay approx. 95.00 extra per year for the dog.

Plus, I love that I have protection of the insurance company, they all have special investigation units that prevent insurance fraud and if someone tried to "sue the shit" out of me, they will handle all of the investigation on the claim. If I am at fault, I own the problem and I have coverage and if someone tried to pull a fast one....I also have some protection.

Okay done with my 2 cents......

Posted on: 2009/1/22 1:41
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Man, you guys are really resistant to facts and information.

Here is a study done by the CDC entitled, "Dog Bites; How Big A Problem?" The Conclusion of which is pretty much exactly my recommendations. Stricter laws and enforcement and more education. The report concludes that dog bites are a serious problem.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dog4.pdf

Here is another study done by the American Veterinary Medical Association called "A Community Approach to Dog Bite Prevention." http://www.avma.org/public_health/dogbite/dogbite.pdf

Here is the first sentence of that study:

"Dog bites are a serious public health problem that
inflicts considerable physical and emotional damage
on victims and incurs immeasurable hidden costs to
communities"

Funny thing is they suggest exactly what I was proposing, something led by some sort of advisory council. This was put together by a multidisciplinary task force, probably the most comprehensive study in the Country on the subject.

I think you guys should do a lot less assuming and more research. You are just, plain wrong.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 1:37
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Vigilante wrote:
The information provided using this Web site is only intended to be general summary information to the public.


I agree with your reply about the statics being "general".
It's my understanding that over 75% of dog bites are from the pet of family or friends, and 50% of attacks occur on the dog owner's property.

I think when throwing out stats about dog bites, it really needs to be broken down.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 1:09
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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The information provided using this Web site is only intended to be general summary information to the public.

Posted on: 2009/1/22 0:37
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Man you guys are grasping for straws. Here is the same information, not from lawyers, but from the Center for Disease Control.

more than 4.7 million people a year
800,000 Americans seek medical attention for dog bites; half of these are children

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/biteprevention.htm

Quote:
Skepticalhook wrote: Even the purported 365,000 bite victims allegedly treated in hospital sounds high.


Skeptical,

It might "sound high" to you, but you have absolutely no basis to say that outside of your own personal experience. Simply because you, personally, have not observed dog bites has no relationship to how often they happen.

Sorry, facts continue to be stubborn things.

You guys must hate children or something, look at these child bites that you don't care about! Why do you hate childrend so much?

Posted on: 2009/1/22 0:03
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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JimmyB wrote:
Very interesting Vigilante, I didn't even catch that.

I never said dog attacks don't happen, I'm not out of touch with this country. But to call my experience with my personal dog misleading and useless is just silly. I've never been hurt and no one else has been hurt due to my dog. I don't find that useless at all.

The point I was originally trying to make is that nothing is concrete so I think it's wrong to generalize anything. You are afraid of dogs and that is going to push your argument in the direction you choose. Confirmed bias.

How many times have you personally been attacked by dogs? Because you really speak as if you're attacked every day you leave your house.

Statistical breakdowns are very important, otherwise the stats are useless. Car accident stats don't mean anything unless you know if drinking was involved, if someone slid on black ice, if someone ran a light or if someone was trying to dodge a child in the street.

That's why sweeping laws are wrong. Laws are usually just opinions made official.


I agree. I think this guy is still upset about The Eagles loss in the play-offs.

Posted on: 2009/1/21 23:57
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Back to those statistics, any idea how many of those were bitten by their own dogs, breeders, trainers, dogfighters (who deserve it), etc? 4.7 million seems awefully high for the errant dog-off-leash attack. I would think too that parents have some responsibility on those children attacks.

I think those numbers make this sound like an epidemic-that would be about 1.5% of the country annually getting bitten by dogs. Are they calculating when my dog nips the end of my finger b/c I don't let go of the treat fast enough? I question the number or, at a minimum, the implication. Even the purported 365,000 bite victims allegedly treated in hospital sounds high.

Posted on: 2009/1/21 23:56
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Very interesting Vigilante, I didn't even catch that.

I never said dog attacks don't happen, I'm not out of touch with this country. But to call my experience with my personal dog misleading and useless is just silly. I've never been hurt and no one else has been hurt due to my dog. I don't find that useless at all.

The point I was originally trying to make is that nothing is concrete so I think it's wrong to generalize anything. You are afraid of dogs and that is going to push your argument in the direction you choose. Confirmed bias.

How many times have you personally been attacked by dogs? Because you really speak as if you're attacked every day you leave your house.

Statistical breakdowns are very important, otherwise the stats are useless. Car accident stats don't mean anything unless you know if drinking was involved, if someone slid on black ice, if someone ran a light or if someone was trying to dodge a child in the street.

That's why sweeping laws are wrong. Laws are usually just opinions made official.

Posted on: 2009/1/21 23:54
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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Both websites are run by? You guessed it! Lawyers!

From Dogbitelaw website:

Disclaimer re the Dog Bite Law web site
It is important that you understand the limitations of this web site and any other that provides legal information. Dog Bite Law provides general information about dog bites and dog bite law. Materials within the Dog Bite Law web site are for informational purposes only. They are not legal advice and should not be used as such. Transmission of the information is not intended to create, and receipt does not constitute, an attorney-client relationship. Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional legal counsel. Transmission of information and questions to Mr. Phillips, and receipt of his replies thereto, does not create an attorney-client relationship. While he endorses products that promote dog safety, he does not sell them and is not responsible for any problems that might arise from them.

From Dogbiteexpert website:

Animal behavior expert witness Dr. Polsky assists attorneys develop / utilize behavioral arguments regarding dog bites & cat bites, prepare declarations & reports, inspect attack premises & render animal behavior expert testimony. Incident reconstruction. Full litigation support. Available nationwide. Both civil & criminal. Scientifically based analysis concerning dog behavior, dangerous dogs, dog bites & cat bites & dog / cat inflicted personal injury.

Posted on: 2009/1/21 23:45
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
#90
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JimmyB wrote: The issue with these numbers


Sorry Jimmy, no issue with the numbers. Facts are stubborn things. I don't think the stats are broken down every way you would wish.

These numbers prove one thing, that your study with a sample of one, your dog, is incredibly misleading and useless.

In fact, this story is likely under reported if anything due to the fact that most dog bites aren't reported. You can find a million reasons to justify the dog bites that do occur, but the fact is that they do occur, apparently, far more often than you thought.

Posted on: 2009/1/21 23:34
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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philasurfer wrote:
Fair question, so I decided to look it up. The results are worse than I thought:

- there were 4.7 million dog bite victims annually in the USA.

- 1,000 Americans per day are treated in emergency rooms as a result of dog bites.

- In 2007 there were 33 fatal dog attacks in the USA.

-Most of the victims who receive medical attention are children, half of whom are bitten in the face.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

- Nationwide, U.S. Postal Service carriers suffered 3,423 dog attacks and bites in 2003.

- According to the American Medical Association, dog bites are the second leading cause of childhood injury, surpassing playground accidents.

http://www.dogexpert.com/Dog%20Bite%2 ... cs/DogBiteStatistics.html


The issue with these numbers is that they don't describe the situation, motive or context which to me is extremely important.

A silly teenager antagonizing a dog might get bit. Or a burglar.

Animal shelter workers get bit all the time but they keep coming back for more.

And of course you have the illegal dog fighting incidents, gross.

As for the postal workers, I feel for those guys. But that's usually just a dog protecting its property, not off leash biting random people on the street.

Now see if you can find these incident stats connected to JC. And also how many dogs are in ownership compared to these incidents. That would be interesting to see.

Posted on: 2009/1/21 23:19
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Re: Unleashed Mastiffs Attack JC Man Downtown this Morning
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JimmyB Wrote: But pay less attention to the news and more attention to the countless responsible owners in this city. Maybe try counting how many times you get bitten while walking the streets.


Fair question, so I decided to look it up. The results are worse than I thought:

- there were 4.7 million dog bite victims annually in the USA.

- 1,000 Americans per day are treated in emergency rooms as a result of dog bites.

- In 2007 there were 33 fatal dog attacks in the USA.

-Most of the victims who receive medical attention are children, half of whom are bitten in the face. (I personally have a fried who was sued, he was the dog owner, whose dog bit a 2 yr old neighbor in the face. Not good.)

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

- Nationwide, U.S. Postal Service carriers suffered 3,423 dog attacks and bites in 2003.

- According to the American Medical Association, dog bites are the second leading cause of childhood injury, surpassing playground accidents.

http://www.dogexpert.com/Dog%20Bite%2 ... cs/DogBiteStatistics.html

Those are the facts.

Posted on: 2009/1/21 23:09
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