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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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We're a nation of immigrants, yet there are people that stubbornly refuse to accept this fact. It really is quite sad...

Posted on: 2016/3/18 10:57
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
I believe monuments should reflect the US history not another country's history.


Did you think that all the way through?


No, she didn't. But, then again does she ever??

Posted on: 2016/3/18 10:55
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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EasyGibson wrote:
Clemente Field? GTFO. Dude wasn't even American.


Huh?

Posted on: 2016/3/18 10:54
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Many American soldiers died in JC during World Wars 1 & 2. There was a sign at Mercer St perhaps near Monmouth called "Old Glory" denoting their sacrifice. The bottom line - there is enough history to have monuments on our history. We do not need to display another country's history. It used to be if you came to the USA, you were proud to be American, now you want your pieces of your former country, then why leave? We have streets named for people who never lived in the USA. An example is Marin Blvd. That name used to be Henderson. Henderson along with his brother produced pottery that became internationally recognized and one of the brothers became mayor of JC. So what do we do? In the 1980s, the take his name away and give it to some one who represents another ethnic group and never lived in the USA.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 10:51
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
I believe monuments should reflect the US history not another country's history.


Did you think that all the way through? What about, for example, the United States’ numerous Holocaust and Great Famine memorials?

Posted on: 2016/3/18 10:44
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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No, she's right. It's time to clean house.

Clemente Field? GTFO. Dude wasn't even American.

Columbus Triangle? Sorry, paisan, take it back it Italy.

It's time somebody had the nerve to say something. Also, what's with all this Dutch shit around here? I haven't met anybody named Van Vorst the entire time I've lived here.

Posted on: 2016/3/17 23:46
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne, you're crazy. Keep the monument.

Posted on: 2016/3/17 22:45
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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The monument happened because Mayor Cucci and Councilman Vazquez were courting the Polish vote. It does not belong in JC. It is more appropriate in a cemetery. My late mother in law was Polish, so I am not anti-Polish. But this does not belong. I believe monuments should reflect the US history not another country's history.

Posted on: 2016/3/17 22:18
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Annual Katyn Forest Massacre memorial service April 10 in Jersey City

By Alisha Morales-Lizardo | The Jersey Journal 
Email the author 
on March 15, 2016 at 12:47pm

The Katyn Forest Massacre Memorial Committee will hold a remembrance ceremony in Jersey City on April 10 to mark the 76th anniversary of the Katyn Forest Massacre and the sixth anniversary of the Smolensk airplane catastrophe.

Read more,  http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... _katyn_1940_monument.html


Posted on: 2016/3/17 22:00
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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The Polish People have known this since time immemorial. I had a Polish friend who would bitterly talk about this every time anyone mentioned WWII.

As for the statue....I like it for some reason. Never saw it as something visually offensive.

Posted on: 2012/9/11 20:25
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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talk about necromancy on a dead thread, but have at it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19552745

Quote:
US 'hushed up' Soviet guilt over Katyn

New evidence appears to back the idea that the Roosevelt administration helped cover up Soviet guilt for the 1940 Katyn massacre of Polish soldiers. Historians said documents, released by the US National Archives, supported the suspicion that the US did not want to anger its wartime ally, Joseph Stalin.

They showed the US was sent coded messages suggesting the Soviets, not the Nazis, carried out the massacre. More than 22,000 Poles were killed by the Soviets on Stalin's orders. Soviet Russia only admitted to the atrocity in 1990 after blaming the Nazis for five decades.

Posted on: 2012/9/11 13:20
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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sinik wrote:

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haha, yeah, the joke in Poland is "Colombowicz".

Poles love to brag about Chopin and Copernicus (Kopernik) but this one.....naahhh.

Posted on: 2010/12/7 3:10
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Quote:

sinik wrote:
Quote:

NJNJ wrote:
I can't even believe someone had the nerve to post this at all-- if this post was entitled "who thinks the holocaust/african american/other "accepted" group needs to go", I guarantee the webmaster would not even allow this post to be published. This is not about the supposed "artistry" or "taste" of the memorial (all just a pretense), it's just flat out bigotry against a group that has suffered longstanding injustices without much acknowlegement, sympathy or attention.

Webmaster, I request you delete this garbage post in its entirety and refuse to allow such bigotry on this forum. This is why I don't read JC List anymore.


How do you know that people can't genuinely have a problem with the appearance/location of the memorial while at the same time still sympathize with the victims of the Katyn massacre? Are all the people that objected to the Bayonne 9/11 memorial being located in Liberty State Park 'bigots'?

Bigotry is the intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself. That description seems to fit the tone of your post.

Because it is a foreign monument being dedicated to foreign matters.

Posted on: 2010/12/5 16:47
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I can't wait for the monument that deplicts us (U.S) invading Iraq with the horse-siht belief of WMD being developed and a nation supporting terrorists there.

A bunker full of women and children being blown-up by a smart bomb would deplict it nicely......or a smart bomb blowing up a milk formula factory is just as nice, then again a nude guy with a pit-bull about to bite his nuts off is clever too !
A note stating Sadam was found guilty and hung for a crime commited in the 80's would be 'the cherry on top' !

I'd also like a giant statue made in the shape of a dollar sign highlighting how many billions have been spent, soldiers lives lost and civilian deaths in Afghanistan for basically chasing the single person responsible for 9/11. The statue could include the % of taxes used and services lost by 'joe blow' citizen chasing the one person.

I'm still at a lost with all the billions spent on high tech weapons and satillite tech crap, we can't find a middle-aged not soldier person in a desert ...... even the amount of money spent during WWII was cheaper then this one person !

Posted on: 2010/12/5 14:48
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Quote:

NJNJ wrote:
I can't even believe someone had the nerve to post this at all-- if this post was entitled "who thinks the holocaust/african american/other "accepted" group needs to go", I guarantee the webmaster would not even allow this post to be published. This is not about the supposed "artistry" or "taste" of the memorial (all just a pretense), it's just flat out bigotry against a group that has suffered longstanding injustices without much acknowlegement, sympathy or attention.

Webmaster, I request you delete this garbage post in its entirety and refuse to allow such bigotry on this forum. This is why I don't read JC List anymore.


How do you know that people can't genuinely have a problem with the appearance/location of the memorial while at the same time still sympathize with the victims of the Katyn massacre? Are all the people that objected to the Bayonne 9/11 memorial being located in Liberty State Park 'bigots'?

Bigotry is the intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself. That description seems to fit the tone of your post.

Posted on: 2010/12/5 14:27
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I can't even believe someone had the nerve to post this at all-- if this post was entitled "who thinks the holocaust/african american/other "accepted" group needs to go", I guarantee the webmaster would not even allow this post to be published. This is not about the supposed "artistry" or "taste" of the memorial (all just a pretense), it's just flat out bigotry against a group that has suffered longstanding injustices without much acknowlegement, sympathy or attention.

Webmaster, I request you delete this garbage post in its entirety and refuse to allow such bigotry on this forum. This is why I don't read JC List anymore.

Posted on: 2010/12/5 9:02
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Re: Remembering Katyn - Wall Street Journal Perspective
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Few statues in the world tell a story better that this one.

Keep the story.

Posted on: 2010/12/3 2:12
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Remembering Katyn - Wall Street Journal Perspective
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History is context for the future. Perhaps, there's hope if we pay more attention to it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001 ... =WSJ_Opinion_AboveLEFTTop

Posted on: 2010/12/1 15:36
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I love the Katyn statue

Posted on: 2010/12/1 15:33
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Quote:

trp3 wrote:
sinik wrote:

Quote:
I wonder how many statues to Columbus there are in Poland


zero.



Well maybe there will be now.

http://www.wbj.pl/article-52239-was-c ... umbus-polish.html?typ=ise

Posted on: 2010/12/1 13:33
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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sinik wrote:

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Why hasn't the powerful Polish community in JC also erected monuments to them?


there's a vietnamese community in Warsaw, they don't have any monuments.

although, the muslim community (very small, like every ethnic group in Poland) is still trying to build a mosque in warsaw.....see how well that one goes.

anyway, i dig the statue. during my morning runs along the water i used to like whizzing past it. all these mixed feelings about it make me like it even more. maybe that was the artist's intentions.

Posted on: 2010/11/13 2:37
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Great monument, but crap location..............It shouldn't be the first thing you see exiting the PATH for tourists, visitors, residents and business commuters. It's a poor welcome 'mat' for JC and has nothing to do to promote JC.

Just relocate it to Lincoln Park, so kids can have an excusion with school and view all the monuments of JC in one go !

Posted on: 2010/11/12 19:11
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Two additional thoughts:

1. Ignorance is bliss.

2. There's no accounting for taste.

The statute is actually an amazing success, even if you intensely dislike it's artistic value or its message.

It remains thought provoking and will continue to be for years to come -- and this thread provides ample evidence of that from all sides of the conversation.

All the best.

Geoff

Posted on: 2010/11/12 19:01
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Quote:

G_Elkind wrote:


George Santayana said it best, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

G


Nice non sequitur, George

Those that can not forget the past are condemned to being trapped in it.


Is having a statue that shows our feelings of anger and bitterness the only way to prevent us from forgetting the past?

In fact let's look at all the other memorials to war dead. They all pretty much focus on the victims and allow us to remember the fallen without making political statements. Have you seen any 9/11 memorials that point a finger at Islam? Have you seen any Holocaust memorials that blame Hitler or even Germany in general? (not saying there aren't any but I have never seen one). Have we forgotten 9/11? Have the Jews forgotten the holocaust? Are we likely to forget just because we don't have "in-your-face" memorials?

Posted on: 2010/11/12 18:14
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Quote:
...is it really a good idea to capture those feelings in something as permanent as a statue that for all intents and purposes is there for perpetuity?


The answer to your question is an emphatic "Yes."

George Santayana said it best, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

There's nothing more to say.

G

Posted on: 2010/11/12 13:45
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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umbro2914 wrote:

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You're absurd. Give them? are you serious?


huh? dude.....Pulaski served in the USA....we built a bridge in his name....but it's something very appreciated by Poles around the world. is "give" that bad of a choice of words? you build something and if it's not for yourself but for someone else, you're "giving" it to someone, no? this is silly. relax, pappy.

Posted on: 2010/11/12 2:55
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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You're absurd. Give them? are you serious? first of all, I'm assuming you are referring to Pulaski skyway... Pulaski did much more for the United States than he did for Poland. He is an American Patriot, and as of last year, An AMerican citizen. And through his service to the United States, in whose name he perished, he certinley merits a bridge name.
Katyn monument wasnt "given" but the Polish community of Jersey City and area raised the funds to create this beautiful testement to the struggle against communism and USSR. Its a part of the world history, and jc history.

And regarding your slimy jab about the colors of the empire state building, -- totally out of context. Yes, there were some Poles upset because they're proposal was decline although in previous years it had been approved. Also, its upsetting to some Poles because just a few weeks prior to Pulaski Day, the Empire State bldg lit up Yellow Red Black for the Germans, thus why not also honor the Poles. And its their right to be upset... has nothing to do with stereotypes or any other BS your advocating. Quote:

trp3 wrote:
sinik wrote:

Quote:
I wonder how many statues to Columbus there are in Poland


zero.

in a related matter, you'd be surprised to see how many poles were pissed off because NYC didn't light the empire state building in polish colors to commemorate Pulaski this year. but, that's just the way poles are. give em' a bridge, give em' a monument....they'll still complain about a light display.

Posted on: 2010/11/11 22:41
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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people that know nothing about the statue's significance should stop being so insensitive. it should stay.

I also want to petition to rename christopher columbus drive. the name is too long and wont fit on my driver's license and takes too long to write out on forms. oh and he didnt really discover america and killed natives.

Posted on: 2010/11/11 10:36
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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sinik wrote:

Quote:
I wonder how many statues to Columbus there are in Poland


zero.

in a related matter, you'd be surprised to see how many poles were pissed off because NYC didn't light the empire state building in polish colors to commemorate Pulaski this year. but, that's just the way poles are. give em' a bridge, give em' a monument....they'll still complain about a light display.

Posted on: 2010/11/11 7:42
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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That statue reminds me of some over the top gay interpretive dance step.

Posted on: 2010/11/9 23:18
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