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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Brewster, surely it's possible to allow tax reductions immediately – so there's no delay, and no need to explain anything – for those in that category. And, at the same time, for those with large increases, say over $5,000 per year, allow a “phase-in” period of several years, for example, 5 years. One requirement being that over the course of the phase-in period the entire amount of taxes owed would be fully paid. At the end of the “phase-in” the yearly taxes would revert to the “correct” amount. If the property is sold or otherwise transferred in the meantime, the entire balance owed as of the sale/transfer date would become due and payable immediately.

It has taken successive City Administrations 25 years of irresponsibility to arrive at the mess the City is in today regarding this reval. It's not any way reasonable to try to “fix” it all over the course of just 6 months. Yes, for those who are due to receive a tax cut, give it immediately. But the economic harm of a huge tax increase delivered over 6 months will severely and adversely impact many people.

The negligence and intransigence of City Government, resulting in this looming mess, is one of the reasons I sold my property and moved to a rental. When it becomes apparent to people what is going to happen with their taxes I anticipate a distinct cooling in the property market. I might buy back in at that point, although the fiscal mess at the State level is also a major negative for me.

Posted on: 7/17 12:46
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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JCBears wrote:
I'm definitely surprised the phase in option isn't on the table.


Because you'd have to explain to the people overpaying, who outnumber the underpaying, why you're going to to delay their tax reduction.

Posted on: 7/17 11:52
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Thank you Yorkster. I'm definitely surprised the phase in option isn't on the table. That's going to be a crushing blow to a lot of people.

Posted on: 7/17 11:46
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Yes, based on an expected 1.8%, your taxes will be $28,800. Taxes will not be phased in. That amount will be due in 2018, however because City budget tends to not be set until end of 2Q, what is done is that for first half of 2018, you pay 50% of your 2017 taxes (e.g., assume 50% of $12k = $6k). Then in 3Q/4Q the balance is due. Which in your case would be $22,800. Hope that makes sense. I'm in similar situation so I expect a hefty bill 2nd half of 2018.

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JCBears wrote:
I fall into the "I bought downtown with no intentions of leaving" column and I'm hoping someone can help me clarify all the info I've been seeing re: outcome of the reval.

Regardless of how much I paid when I bought, my taxes will now be based on the current market value of my home? So if our neighbors sold for $1.6 million recently am I to expect my tax bill to jump to the $28-$30k range as a result?

Do we expect this to be phased in or done in one swift move? A friend was told this week by the tax office not to expect any changes in tax bills until 3rd quarter 2018 and I find that hard to believe. Thought it would be in place by end of year 2017?


Posted on: 7/16 21:02
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Anyone has the ward inspection schedule? Would like to get an estimate when I will be inspected.

Posted on: 7/16 17:53
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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I fall into the "I bought downtown with no intentions of leaving" column and I'm hoping someone can help me clarify all the info I've been seeing re: outcome of the reval.

Regardless of how much I paid when I bought, my taxes will now be based on the current market value of my home? So if our neighbors sold for $1.6 million recently am I to expect my tax bill to jump to the $28-$30k range as a result?

Do we expect this to be phased in or done in one swift move? A friend was told this week by the tax office not to expect any changes in tax bills until 3rd quarter 2018 and I find that hard to believe. Thought it would be in place by end of year 2017?


Posted on: 7/16 14:37
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

135jc wrote:
Quote:

jc201jc wrote:
i have a question about how property taxes are handled now (pre reval). If i buy a condo that had been paying $5k/yr in taxes, will my property tax rate go up based on my purchase price?

Then when the reval is done, could it potentially go up again?


Unless something has changed you will not pay higher taxes then the previous owner. There are some waterfront high-rises however where taxes are reset upon the purchase price. This formula would have saved a lot of heartache for Jersey city but it is not used city wide.


While this is true ordinarily, the question was in context of the reval. If you buy before the reval, the assessment will be reset like all non-abated properties. Simply calculate what % of the sale price is the taxes and if it's less than 1.8% expect them to go up to that.

Much depends on how long ago the condo was built or condoed. A 100 year old building condoed a few years ago will not see taxes rise since the assessments were set at that time and are not wildly innacurate like the older properties DT.


There are certain waterfront properties that reset upon purchase.

Posted on: 6/30 14:19
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Quote:

135jc wrote:
Quote:

jc201jc wrote:
i have a question about how property taxes are handled now (pre reval). If i buy a condo that had been paying $5k/yr in taxes, will my property tax rate go up based on my purchase price?

Then when the reval is done, could it potentially go up again?


Unless something has changed you will not pay higher taxes then the previous owner. There are some waterfront high-rises however where taxes are reset upon the purchase price. This formula would have saved a lot of heartache for Jersey city but it is not used city wide.


While this is true ordinarily, the question was in context of the reval. If you buy before the reval, the assessment will be reset like all non-abated properties. Simply calculate what % of the sale price is the taxes and if it's less than 1.8% expect them to go up to that.

Much depends on how long ago the condo was built or condoed. A 100 year old building condoed a few years ago will not see taxes rise since the assessments were set at that time and are not wildly innacurate like the older properties DT.

Posted on: 6/30 12:33
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Hoboken did a reval just a few years ago. The market did not soften. Don't count on it.

Posted on: 6/30 11:03
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jc201jc wrote:
^^ ok thanks that helps. I wonder if the reval will serve to stabilize prices in DTJC (or even lower them). Then again, people seem to be getting wrapped up in a real estate bubble again so I wouldn't be surprised if condo prices keep increasing, even if the tax bills will go up by a few thousand $$/yr


Well,
You run the risk of the market softening in my opinion due to high revals, but it will probably be short lived. This area rebounded well after the 2007 crash. There are a lot of cash buyers waiting for a small dip.

Posted on: 6/30 10:57
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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^^ ok thanks that helps. I wonder if the reval will serve to stabilize prices in DTJC (or even lower them). Then again, people seem to be getting wrapped up in a real estate bubble again so I wouldn't be surprised if condo prices keep increasing, even if the tax bills will go up by a few thousand $$/yr

Posted on: 6/30 10:53
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Quote:

jc201jc wrote:
i have a question about how property taxes are handled now (pre reval). If i buy a condo that had been paying $5k/yr in taxes, will my property tax rate go up based on my purchase price?

Then when the reval is done, could it potentially go up again?


Unless something has changed you will not pay higher taxes then the previous owner. There are some waterfront high-rises however where taxes are reset upon the purchase price. This formula would have saved a lot of heartache for Jersey city but it is not used city wide.

Posted on: 6/30 10:29
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i have a question about how property taxes are handled now (pre reval). If i buy a condo that had been paying $5k/yr in taxes, will my property tax rate go up based on my purchase price?

Then when the reval is done, could it potentially go up again?

Posted on: 6/30 10:18
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Quote:

Erica wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:

There is nothing in those links which suggests inspectors will "assume that your unit is at the high end of the range of comparables" if they don't gain access. More bullshit disinformation. Why can't people be honest?


"Nothing" except exactly what I said (from the FAQ on ASI's website):

"Can I refuse entry to the field inspector?

Yes, you may refuse entry to your home, but is in your best interest to see that as much information as possible is gathered to help insure an accurate assessment. If an appraiser cannot inspect the inside of a building, it's possible an inaccurate assessment may result. The law provides that a property can be assessed at the highest reasonable value if the field inspector is denied entry.

The revaluation program should not be seen as an adversarial situation. Property owners have a vested interest in the outcome of the project and their cooperation is vital to achieve an equitable revaluation. If one person's property is under-assessed, all the other property owners in the municipality will pay higher taxes to make up for the discrepancy. Conversely, if property owners deny access to the field inspector they could wind up being over-assessed and pay more than their fair share of taxes."

I have no idea why you're so angry about this. It's common sense that if you're trying to get accurate data about every property in the city, and you have some properties about which you still have questions, you need to assume best-case scenario on those properties. In that case, owners who think you got it wrong in their case (they've been over-assessed) will willingly give you that information, improving the quality of your data. If you err on the side of under-assessing, owners who know you made a mistake (they've been under-assessed) will likely not tell you.


Ok, you are right, and I'm sorry about my prior post. There's just so much bad info out there, that it's tough to sort through the bull sometimes, but that's no excuse in this situation.

Posted on: 6/8 20:51
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Erica wrote:
I have no idea why you're so angry about this. It's common sense that if you're trying to get accurate data about every property in the city, and you have some properties about which you still have questions, you need to assume best-case scenario on those properties. In that case, owners who think you got it wrong in their case (they've been over-assessed) will willingly give you that information, improving the quality of your data. If you err on the side of under-assessing, owners who know you made a mistake (they've been under-assessed) will likely not tell you.


Not just that, if someone's overassessed enough there's something they can do about it, if they underassess, it stands until the next reval.

Looking again at the 15% issue, I think it effectively does mean 15% of fmv since after a reval the ratio is 100%. So to exceed the ratio by 15% one's assessment must exceed FMV by that amount.

Posted on: 6/8 12:08
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JCGuys wrote:

There is nothing in those links which suggests inspectors will "assume that your unit is at the high end of the range of comparables" if they don't gain access. More bullshit disinformation. Why can't people be honest?


"Nothing" except exactly what I said (from the FAQ on ASI's website):

"Can I refuse entry to the field inspector?

Yes, you may refuse entry to your home, but is in your best interest to see that as much information as possible is gathered to help insure an accurate assessment. If an appraiser cannot inspect the inside of a building, it's possible an inaccurate assessment may result. The law provides that a property can be assessed at the highest reasonable value if the field inspector is denied entry.

The revaluation program should not be seen as an adversarial situation. Property owners have a vested interest in the outcome of the project and their cooperation is vital to achieve an equitable revaluation. If one person's property is under-assessed, all the other property owners in the municipality will pay higher taxes to make up for the discrepancy. Conversely, if property owners deny access to the field inspector they could wind up being over-assessed and pay more than their fair share of taxes."

I have no idea why you're so angry about this. It's common sense that if you're trying to get accurate data about every property in the city, and you have some properties about which you still have questions, you need to assume best-case scenario on those properties. In that case, owners who think you got it wrong in their case (they've been over-assessed) will willingly give you that information, improving the quality of your data. If you err on the side of under-assessing, owners who know you made a mistake (they've been under-assessed) will likely not tell you.

Posted on: 6/7 23:22
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yorkster wrote:
So if your assessment comes in at $1M but the FMV should be at $850K, a person does not have the right to appeal because it's not greater than >15%? If so, that homeowner would be overpaying their taxes by $2700 (assuming 1.8%). How is that fair?


I think the idea is not to clutter tax court with people attempting to lower their taxes minute amounts every year. But the actual math seems not be 15% of value, but 15% of the difference between the official ratio and your ratio.

Can anyone decipher this from a NJ document? Maybe I'm just tired but I can't.

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/lpt/ptappeal.pdf

Quote:
If the ratio of assessed value to true value
exceeds the average ratio by 15%, the
assessment is reduced to the common level.

Example
Director’s Ratio = 85%
Common Level Range = 72.25%-97.75%
True Value = $95000
Assessment = $94000
Ratio = 98.95% ($94000÷$95000)
Judgment = Reduction in assessed value
New Assessment = $80750 ($95000 x 85%)
However, if the assessment falls within this
common level range, no adjustment is made.

Example
Director’s Ratio = 85%
Common Level Range = 72.25%-97.75%
True Value = $95000
Assessment = $90000
Ratio = 94.74% ($90000÷$95000)
Judgment = No change in assessed value
If the assessed value to true value ratio falls
below the common level, the Tax Board must
increase the assessment to the common level.

Example
Director’s Ratio = 85%
Common Level Range = 72.25%-97.75%
True Value = $95000
Assessment = $67000
Ratio = 70.53% ($67000÷$95000)
Judgment = Increase in assessed value
New Assessment = $80750 ($95000 x 85%)If the ratio of assessed value to true value
exceeds the average ratio by 15%, the
assessment is reduced to the common level.

Example
Director’s Ratio = 85%
Common Level Range = 72.25%-97.75%
True Value = $95000
Assessment = $94000
Ratio = 98.95% ($94000÷$95000)
Judgment = Reduction in assessed value
New Assessment = $80750 ($95000 x 85%)
However, if the assessment falls within this
common level range, no adjustment is made.

Example
Director’s Ratio = 85%
Common Level Range = 72.25%-97.75%
True Value = $95000
Assessment = $90000
Ratio = 94.74% ($90000÷$95000)
Judgment = No change in assessed value
If the assessed value to true value ratio falls
below the common level, the Tax Board must
increase the assessment to the common level.

Example
Director’s Ratio = 85%
Common Level Range = 72.25%-97.75%
True Value = $95000
Assessment = $67000
Ratio = 70.53% ($67000÷$95000)
Judgment = Increase in assessed value
New Assessment = $80750 ($95000 x 85%)

Posted on: 6/7 21:02
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JCGuys wrote:
There is nothing in those links which suggests inspectors will "assume that your unit is at the high end of the range of comparables" if they don't gain access. More bullshit disinformation. Why can't people be honest?

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Posted on: 6/7 21:00
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Quote:

Erica wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

Erica wrote:

My understanding from the various Q&As I've seen is that if they're unable to access your unit, they will assume that your unit is at the high end of the range of comparables. So if some units in your building have been renovated with upgraded appliances and some have not, they will assume yours is one of the renovated ones unless they can get in to see otherwise.


Can you post a link to this Q&A? There's so much misinformation and disinformation out there, so I want to read that for myself on a reputable site.


I was referring mostly to the in-person Q&As that were held with ASI throughout the city in April. Civic Parent has a good recap of the Ward A one here: https://civicparent.org/news/jersey-ci ... tion-meetings-highlights/

There's also a JC-specific landing page on ASI's site (and their FAQ pages have a lot of useful info as well): http://asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=359

ETA: ASI's site lists one more upcoming presentation at Lincoln High on 6/29 from 7:30PM - 8:30PM.


There is nothing in those links which suggests inspectors will "assume that your unit is at the high end of the range of comparables" if they don't gain access. More bullshit disinformation. Why can't people be honest?

Posted on: 6/7 20:37
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yorkster wrote:
So if your assessment comes in at $1M but the FMV should be at $850K, a person does not have the right to appeal because it's not greater than >15%? If so, that homeowner would be overpaying their taxes by $2700 (assuming 1.8%). How is that fair?


The info from ASI states that you can schedule a one-on-one meeting with them to discuss your valuation (after it's released, obviously). This is an informal avenue for adjustment.

They also say that if you still aren't satisfied, you can appeal to the County Board of Taxation (also an informal process), and then to the NJ State Tax Court (formal). They don't mention any threshold for appeal. (Which doesn't mean there isn't one, particularly for Tax Court.)

Posted on: 6/7 16:41
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JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

Erica wrote:

My understanding from the various Q&As I've seen is that if they're unable to access your unit, they will assume that your unit is at the high end of the range of comparables. So if some units in your building have been renovated with upgraded appliances and some have not, they will assume yours is one of the renovated ones unless they can get in to see otherwise.


Can you post a link to this Q&A? There's so much misinformation and disinformation out there, so I want to read that for myself on a reputable site.


I was referring mostly to the in-person Q&As that were held with ASI throughout the city in April. Civic Parent has a good recap of the Ward A one here: https://civicparent.org/news/jersey-ci ... tion-meetings-highlights/

There's also a JC-specific landing page on ASI's site (and their FAQ pages have a lot of useful info as well): http://asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=359

ETA: ASI's site lists one more upcoming presentation at Lincoln High on 6/29 from 7:30PM - 8:30PM.

Posted on: 6/7 16:30
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So if your assessment comes in at $1M but the FMV should be at $850K, a person does not have the right to appeal because it's not greater than >15%? If so, that homeowner would be overpaying their taxes by $2700 (assuming 1.8%). How is that fair?

Posted on: 6/7 15:40
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Erica wrote:

My understanding from the various Q&As I've seen is that if they're unable to access your unit, they will assume that your unit is at the high end of the range of comparables. So if some units in your building have been renovated with upgraded appliances and some have not, they will assume yours is one of the renovated ones unless they can get in to see otherwise.


Can you post a link to this Q&A? There's so much misinformation and disinformation out there, so I want to read that for myself on a reputable site.

Posted on: 6/7 14:22
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iGreg wrote:
So, in other words:

"It's a big shit sandwich and we all have to take a bite"


#Upcharge



Unless you live in Wards A,B or F...

Posted on: 6/7 14:21
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So, in other words:

"It's a big shit sandwich and we all have to take a bite"


#Upcharge


Posted on: 6/7 13:25
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the valuation needs be out of wack by a certain percentage before you can appeal.


15% over FMV to successfully appeal.

Hey AlexC??? My lawyer is standing by with our contract!!

If you really wanted what you said you wanted you'd jump at it. But as I guessed, what you really want is to have it both ways as you've had up till now. No reval until sale? Put yourself in your new neighbor's shoes paying 2 or 3 times your tax. Fair?

Honestly, I think it's unfair that people under 62 like AlexC possibly is can't take out reverse mortgages to pay their tax. Let the market set the rate for the potentially lengthened time to payoff.

Posted on: 6/7 12:50
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If I'm not mistaken, the valuation needs be out of wack by a certain percentage before you can appeal.

Posted on: 6/7 11:31
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If I lived in a big building I wouldn't sweat the inspection. You get a chance to see what you are assessed at and your neighbors, it will in all likelihood be in line with the similar units and similar square footage, with some consideration for floor. Additionally your building may be abated, so there while they will inspect the

When you get the assessment, if you find it to be out of whack with your neighbors you will have ample time to appeal it. But in reality if it's off by 5k you are talking like $150 bucks annually. I can easily make the case that my time is working is much more beneficial then quibbling over essentially a rounding error.

Posted on: 6/7 10:47
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jcguy05 wrote:
hi for a high rise condo in downtown jersey city, if i am not home when the inspector comes will it have a negative impact on my reval tax?

the days he suppose to be here i need to work. i assume since it's a condo with many similar units, they can just use similar unit's value for my reval.

Is that accurate? i am not trying to avoid a reval, just cant leave work.


If you aren't home, the inspector will leave a note listing an alternate time. There will be a number to call if that time doesn't work for you, so that you can schedule the appointment during a more convenient window.

My understanding from the various Q&As I've seen is that if they're unable to access your unit, they will assume that your unit is at the high end of the range of comparables. So if some units in your building have been renovated with upgraded appliances and some have not, they will assume yours is one of the renovated ones unless they can get in to see otherwise.

Posted on: 6/7 10:10
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And what basis do you have to make that statement? I asked this same question earlier in this thread about what would happen if you don't let the inspector in. That was the general response. If it's a condo, there are likely identical condos in the same building. The appraised value could be very well equal to the other similar or identical units. Valid point

Contrary to popular belief, it's not like the old days and the inspectors can just make up a number. There is so much eyes on this recap, do you really think an inspector is going to inflate a number to get back at a homeowner that didn't let them in? Not what I was suggesting at all. If you were to, hypothetically, take all the comps in the area but your property was worth less than the comps, it could end up not in your favor. If anything, they should be leaving thank you notes as it makes their job easier relying on public records instead of personally inspecting.

Posted on: 6/7 9:58
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