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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Tesla, N.Y. agree on direct sales

Tesla Motors Inc. and New York auto dealer lobbying groups reached an agreement that allows the electric-car maker to keep its five company-owned stores in the state and add others, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Friday.

"Today's agreement reaffirms New York's long-standing commitment to the dealer franchise system, while making sure New York remains a leader in spurring innovative businesses and encouraging zero emissions vehicle sales," Cuomo said in a statement. Legislation in New York will be introduced "in the near future" to implement the agreement, said Cuomo. He didn't say how many other stores would be added.

http://www.sfgate.com/business/articl ... -direct-sales-5358565.php

Posted on: 2014/3/30 22:24
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Exactly. Having the choice to buy direct or through a retailer is option that makes sense.

Posted on: 2014/3/21 16:20
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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It's about having the choice. I don't think Tesla is forcing other manufacturers to change their model, but why are we restricting theirs? We as consumers should not get used to getting boxed in this way unless there is compelling reason not to buy any other way. Direct sales is not a threat to a well run dealership or retailer, otherwise Best Buy would have closed down long ago because of Amazon.

On the plus side, the state of NJ now has one more thing in common with TX and AZ. Kudos.

Posted on: 2014/3/21 15:57
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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heights wrote:
This does not make sense, should we all just deal with a manufactuer of a product when purchasing ?

Manufacturers should have the option to sell direct, if they choose to do so.

No one even thinks of forcing Dell to sell computers in retail establishments, in order to "protect retail jobs." And if the retail model does work better, then people can buy computers at Best Buy instead of direct from Dell.

I see no particular reason why cars should be treated differently.

Posted on: 2014/3/21 11:19
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
Its no wonder the motoring industry is going down the tubes - By having 'middlemen' between manufacturer to end user, it only creates vehicles that are over priced when everyone wants a piece of the pie!

This does not make sense, should we all just deal with a manufactuer of a product when purchasing ?

Posted on: 2014/3/21 11:10
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Its no wonder the motoring industry is going down the tubes - By having 'middlemen' between manufacturer to end user, it only creates vehicles that are over priced when everyone wants a piece of the pie!

Posted on: 2014/3/21 6:18
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Monroe wrote:
If you want to eliminate the auto dealer model, I would think you'd want to do the same with other industries that have similar separations of consumer/manufacturer/dealer-distributor. Or are you solely concentrating on a single company such as Tesla? If so, why? Don't you feel the same way about buying, say, a bottle of bourbon direct from Kentucky, saving money by eliminating both the distributor AND the retailer in NJ?

It would be illogical for you to deny consumers of bourbon the same benefits you want Tesla buyers to enjoy, no?


Agreed...


Unfortunately, there are differences between the distribution of alcohol and cars.

The reason that stores are forced to go through distributors in NJ and NY for wine and liquor is because the distributor is capable of buying in bulk and then selling to the small store at a lower rate that that small shop could buy if it were to go direct to The Macallan, itself.

This ability to buy at a lower price enables Joe's Liquor Store to compete with Shop Rite Liquors.

With automobiles, you do have the issue of overhead where you are paying for a distributor's profit margins.


Monroe is apparently unaware of Apple stores, where the manufacturer sells direct to the consumer.

Posted on: 2014/3/20 21:27
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Monroe wrote:
If you want to eliminate the auto dealer model, I would think you'd want to do the same with other industries that have similar separations of consumer/manufacturer/dealer-distributor. Or are you solely concentrating on a single company such as Tesla? If so, why? Don't you feel the same way about buying, say, a bottle of bourbon direct from Kentucky, saving money by eliminating both the distributor AND the retailer in NJ?

It would be illogical for you to deny consumers of bourbon the same benefits you want Tesla buyers to enjoy, no?


Agreed...


Unfortunately, there are differences between the distribution of alcohol and cars.

The reason that stores are forced to go through distributors in NJ and NY for wine and liquor is because the distributor is capable of buying in bulk and then selling to the small store at a lower rate that that small shop could buy if it were to go direct to The Macallan, itself.

This ability to buy at a lower price enables Joe's Liquor Store to compete with Shop Rite Liquors.

With automobiles, you do have the issue of overhead where you are paying for a distributor's profit margins.

Posted on: 2014/3/20 19:40
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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sepecat wrote:
Musk tapped into the Apple fanboys and he thinks he can do what he wants. As a consumer I want to be able to save money and I can only save money if there is competition. I'm not a fan of Christie, but this is the right call.


Um, this increases competition. That's the whole point. Just like online shopping increased competition. Another thing it did was increase pricing transparency, further reducing cost.

Posted on: 2014/3/18 17:16
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Monroe wrote:
If you want to eliminate the auto dealer model, I would think you'd want to do the same with other industries that have similar separations of consumer/manufacturer/dealer-distributor. Or are you solely concentrating on a single company such as Tesla? If so, why? Don't you feel the same way about buying, say, a bottle of bourbon direct from Kentucky, saving money by eliminating both the distributor AND the retailer in NJ?

It would be illogical for you to deny consumers of bourbon the same benefits you want Tesla buyers to enjoy, no?


Agreed...

Posted on: 2014/3/18 15:36
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Musk tapped into the Apple fanboys and he thinks he can do what he wants. As a consumer I want to be able to save money and I can only save money if there is competition. I'm not a fan of Christie, but this is the right call.


Dealers are an extra layer of overhead. If you are mandated to buy through them, you will pay more than if you just bought the car direct. Yes, there is competition among dealers, but that only means they compete with who can charge you the least amount of overhead. But why be charged any dealership overhead at all?

The real competition is, and should be, with the cars themselves. Tesla competes with other cars on the market. If we're focusing on dealership competition, we're missing something.

Posted on: 2014/3/18 15:31
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Monroe wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
...a billionaire South African...


He became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2002. That makes him just as American as anyone else.


I don't know any Americans who were born South African, changed to an Canadian citizen, then became a naturalized American-sounds like he's a bit of an opportunist, no? :)


Monroe -

Using parlance you're familiar with, Elon Musk is a jobs creator. There are ~6000 employees at Telsa and ~3800 employees at Space X. Most of these jobs are in the US. Both companies manufacture and do R&D here.

I'll take a few more "opportunists" like that.

Posted on: 2014/3/18 15:31
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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sepecat wrote:
Musk tapped into the Apple fanboys and he thinks he can do what he wants. As a consumer I want to be able to save money and I can only save money if there is competition. I'm not a fan of Christie, but this is the right call.


You do realize that by buying direct you'll be saving thousands compared to what a dealer offer you? I guess you have a point if every manufacturer went to direct sales.

Posted on: 2014/3/18 15:29
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Musk tapped into the Apple fanboys and he thinks he can do what he wants. As a consumer I want to be able to save money and I can only save money if there is competition. I'm not a fan of Christie, but this is the right call.

Posted on: 2014/3/18 15:11
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Not NJ, but in TX where Tesla has also been banned from direct sales is now asking for the new Gigafactory to be based in Texas. Free market me a$$

Linky

Posted on: 2014/3/18 15:04
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Written by Elon, so clearly there is a bias... but the details used to support the concept are fact:

http://jalopnik.com/to-the-people-of-new-jersey-1544011627

Let's be honest - this is what Christie and the MVC should be concerned about; (but that's OK - lets focus on protecting auto dealers)

http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/12/autos/gm-recall-information/


Posted on: 2014/3/17 19:56
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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"Normal maintenance plan," "routine maintenance," "scheduled maintenance," "tune-up," call it whatever you like. The simple fact is that electric cars, especially those that allow (or encourage) owners to update the software themselves, require significantly less maintenance than internal combustion engines.

So....

• Electric cars are not comparable to cheap cars like Tata, because they require far less maintenance.
• If people want to buy cars with less support, that's their business.
• The dealership model obviously doesn't save jobs, as evidenced by GM and Chrysler whacking a bunch of dealerships when they declared bankruptcy. (To supplement: That act alone suggests that dealerships are economically inefficient.)
• It is not the job of government to mandate that markets act inefficiently, when there is no real benefit.
• Ford's previous attempt to sell direct was thwarted by laws that basically serve the dealerships, not consumers.
• Conservatives widely recognize that it is Christie who is being a hypocrite in this case.

Happy now?

Posted on: 2014/3/16 23:55
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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You lost me at internal combustion engines need tune ups every 5,000 miles, lol. Really?

Yes, really.

An electric car doesn't need oil changes, it doesn't need filters changed, it doesn't need emissions checks, you don't have to flush the fuel system, it doesn't have timing belts, and so forth. The software updates, which don't require a shop, address lots of problems.

A 5,000 mile tune-up is routine for cars that have internal combustion engines. Electric cars need them every 12,000 - 15,000 miles, and require a lot less maintenance at those intervals.

http://www.wired.com/business/2014/03 ... -end-oil-changes-forever/

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/10 ... st-none-required-actually

And no, you cannot drive a Ford F150 for 100,000 without ever needing a tune up. Do you even own a car? Do you really expect anyone to believe that a truck will run just fine for 100k miles without a single tune up, a single oil change, a single filter changed, a single belt replaced?


FYI - an oil change and a tune-up are two separate and distinct maintenance items. Most modern cars go 100k miles before a tune up.

Posted on: 2014/3/16 23:21
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Monroe wrote:
You lost me at internal combustion engines need tune ups every 5,000 miles, lol. Really?

Yes, really.

An electric car doesn't need oil changes, it doesn't need filters changed, it doesn't need emissions checks, you don't have to flush the fuel system, it doesn't have timing belts, and so forth. The software updates, which don't require a shop, address lots of problems.

A 5,000 mile tune-up is routine for cars that have internal combustion engines. Electric cars need them every 12,000 - 15,000 miles, and require a lot less maintenance at those intervals.

http://www.wired.com/business/2014/03 ... -end-oil-changes-forever/

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/10 ... st-none-required-actually

And no, you cannot drive a Ford F150 for 100,000 without ever needing a tune up. Do you even own a car? Do you really expect anyone to believe that a truck will run just fine for 100k miles without a single tune up, a single oil change, a single filter changed, a single belt replaced?

Posted on: 2014/3/16 21:00
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Monroe wrote:
Many feel that making an exemption will lead to, say, low cost Asian manufacturers such as Tata Nano selling cars direct....

First, Tesla's cars are not comparable to Tata.

Electric cars have much lower maintenance needs than a standard automobile. You don't need oil changes, or emissions, or spark plugs. Brake pads last longer, because they're regenerating electricity. A lot of updates are done via software, which can be done directly by the owner and will replace most recalls. (Other manufacturers could do the same, I wonder why they don't? Hmmmm)

Most electric cars (such as the Nissan Leaf) only need tuneups every 15,000 miles, instead of 5,000 for an internal combustion engine.

Even if there were Tesla dealers, they'd need fewer staff. Should we ban electric cars because they would result in fewer mechanics?


Second, if people want to buy cars direct, who cares? If the service is insufficient, people will figure that out very quickly, and local mechanics will offer repair services.


Third, and since you obviously missed it: The dealer model does not guarantee jobs for anyone. When GM and Chrysler declared bankruptcy, they killed off thousands of dealerships.

Fourth, it is absurd to suggest that we should mandate economic inefficiencies primarily to "save jobs."


Quote:
And Ford did experiment with selling direct, and gave it up when traditional dealers forced them out by underpricing them-so the consumers didn't benefit there either.

"A decade back, Ford tried to launch a similar effort in the U.S., but it was ultimately stymied by the myriad of often severely restrictive state franchising laws that often seem written precisely to protect car dealers – no surprise considering auto retailers and their trade organizations, such as the National Automobile Dealers Association, are among the most powerful lobbying bodies in the country."
- http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2010/ ... ling-direct-to-consumers/

Don't get me wrong, I do support regulation -- when the rules are crafted reasonably well, and actually protects consumers, workers and the environment. I do not support it when it primarily serves a private interest, like car dealers.


Quote:
Face it, this is a dogpile attempt mostly trying to discredit Christie-the left making a case for a billionaire South African selling cars to the 1%ers, is amusing though.

Face it, there is no reason to prevent direct auto sales other than to keep a block of donors happy. Even Forbes recognizes that Christie is being a hypocrite with his executive order. So why don't you? Hmmm.


You lost me at internal combustion engines need tune ups every 5,000 miles, lol. Really? One of the most popular vehicles sold in the USA, the Ford 150, had a 100,000 service interval for tune ups. I guess being 20X wrong is ok for you!

Posted on: 2014/3/16 20:01
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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We definitely have 1 or 2 bloggers from the Christie camp to act as troubleshooters or publicists on internet forums. It wouldn't surprise me that their comments and trolling for negative feedback on Christie, was in their job description ... as its the only comments we read from them !

Posted on: 2014/3/16 19:31
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Chris Christie pulls the plug on Tesla - and his political career

"When you’re hot, you’re hot.

When you’re not, you’re Chris Christie.

Bridgegate was bad enough, but last week the governor managed a rare trick: He outraged everyone across the political spectrum."

And for our local partisan hack Monroe:

"All we have to go on is a statement from his spokesman, who argued that the governor had no choice but to enforce the franchise law currently on the books.

Nonsense. Governors in other states have refused to enforce similar laws. That forced dealers in New York and Massachusetts to sue to shut down Tesla. The suits were thrown out of court. "

Read More
:

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... tie_tesla_bridgegate.html


Posted on: 2014/3/16 19:27
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Monroe wrote:
Many feel that making an exemption will lead to, say, low cost Asian manufacturers such as Tata Nano selling cars direct....

First, Tesla's cars are not comparable to Tata.

Electric cars have much lower maintenance needs than a standard automobile. You don't need oil changes, or emissions, or spark plugs. Brake pads last longer, because they're regenerating electricity. A lot of updates are done via software, which can be done directly by the owner and will replace most recalls. (Other manufacturers could do the same, I wonder why they don't? Hmmmm)

Most electric cars (such as the Nissan Leaf) only need tuneups every 15,000 miles, instead of 5,000 for an internal combustion engine.

Even if there were Tesla dealers, they'd need fewer staff. Should we ban electric cars because they would result in fewer mechanics?


Second, if people want to buy cars direct, who cares? If the service is insufficient, people will figure that out very quickly, and local mechanics will offer repair services.


Third, and since you obviously missed it: The dealer model does not guarantee jobs for anyone. When GM and Chrysler declared bankruptcy, they killed off thousands of dealerships.

Fourth, it is absurd to suggest that we should mandate economic inefficiencies primarily to "save jobs."


Quote:
And Ford did experiment with selling direct, and gave it up when traditional dealers forced them out by underpricing them-so the consumers didn't benefit there either.

"A decade back, Ford tried to launch a similar effort in the U.S., but it was ultimately stymied by the myriad of often severely restrictive state franchising laws that often seem written precisely to protect car dealers – no surprise considering auto retailers and their trade organizations, such as the National Automobile Dealers Association, are among the most powerful lobbying bodies in the country."
- http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2010/ ... ling-direct-to-consumers/

Don't get me wrong, I do support regulation -- when the rules are crafted reasonably well, and actually protects consumers, workers and the environment. I do not support it when it primarily serves a private interest, like car dealers.


Quote:
Face it, this is a dogpile attempt mostly trying to discredit Christie-the left making a case for a billionaire South African selling cars to the 1%ers, is amusing though.

Face it, there is no reason to prevent direct auto sales other than to keep a block of donors happy. Even Forbes recognizes that Christie is being a hypocrite with his executive order. So why don't you? Hmmm.

Posted on: 2014/3/16 16:31
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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If a manufacturer, rather than a dealer, is in charge of warranty, service, and repairs-we could have a problem, Houston.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/aut ... t-not-good-ones.html?_r=0

Posted on: 2014/3/16 16:29
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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CdeCoincy wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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iabide wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
...a billionaire South African...


He became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2002. That makes him just as American as anyone else.


I don't know any Americans who were born South African, changed to an Canadian citizen, then became a naturalized American-sounds like he's a bit of an opportunist, no? :)


I do. I also know people whose grands and greats went to Cuba, Argentina, Brazil, etc. from Russia, Poland, Italy in the 1900s and then onto the US. Very American, no?

What about all the Russians Jews who first went to Israel and then came here? You got problems with them being opportunists too?


Lighten up, Francis, did you miss my smilie?

Posted on: 2014/3/16 15:00
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Monroe wrote:
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iabide wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...a billionaire South African...


He became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2002. That makes him just as American as anyone else.


I don't know any Americans who were born South African, changed to an Canadian citizen, then became a naturalized American-sounds like he's a bit of an opportunist, no? :)


I do. I also know people whose grands and greats went to Cuba, Argentina, Brazil, etc. from Russia, Poland, Italy in the 1900s and then onto the US. Very American, no?

What about all the Russians Jews who first went to Israel and then came here? You got problems with them being opportunists too?

Posted on: 2014/3/16 14:59
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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iabide wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
...a billionaire South African...


He became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2002. That makes him just as American as anyone else.


I don't know any Americans who were born South African, changed to an Canadian citizen, then became a naturalized American-sounds like he's a bit of an opportunist, no? :)

Posted on: 2014/3/16 14:41
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Monroe wrote:
...a billionaire South African...


He became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2002. That makes him just as American as anyone else.

Posted on: 2014/3/16 14:35
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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And Ford did experiment with selling direct, and gave it up when traditional dealers forced them out by underpricing them-so the consumers didn't benefit there either.


Good point. I also remember GM tried to go down the direct route with the Saturn brand, until they were forced to sell through GM dealerships.

Posted on: 2014/3/16 14:03
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Re: Christie Administration seeks to block Tesla Motors sales
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Many feel that making an exemption will lead to, say, low cost Asian manufacturers such as Tata Nano selling cars direct (with list prices of, say, $5 or $6 thousand dollars) with non existent repair, service, and warranty capabilities. Not exactly consumer friendly.

And Ford did experiment with selling direct, and gave it up when traditional dealers forced them out by underpricing them-so the consumers didn't benefit there either.

It's certainly worth a conversation, but do we really want to throw out the baby with the bathwater without reviewing all the costs and benefits?

Face it, this is a dogpile attempt mostly trying to discredit Christie-the left making a case for a billionaire South African selling cars to the 1%ers, is amusing though.

Posted on: 2014/3/16 13:25
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