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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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But bodhi, the ratables!!!! Hahahaha

Posted on: 2018/2/27 14:04
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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HeightsNative wrote:
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lecxe wrote:

Your tax bill went up? Well cry me a river. Life ain't fare. No one cares.


Yes, except the reval is actually the epitome of fairness. They're upset that everything is fair now lol.


100% agreed.

I have said it before, there is some real irony in seeing so many unabashed liberals previously demanding more and bigger government, suddenly clamoring for fiscal restraint and smaller government when it finally came to them having to foot the bill.

While that may seem like a cheap political potshot, the truth is that most of these DTJC homeowners complaining about their tax increase got away with underpaying for a LONG time. A lot of them were simply in denial about what was coming, even when told directly to their faces. A quick search through this site would yield oodles of threads about what the reval would mean for DTJC, and claiming ignorance now is simply disingenuous. Even if you didn't participate in those threads, or this forum, you could have easily determined what to expect from the reval by doing a tiny amount of research.

Posted on: 2018/2/27 13:12
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lecxe wrote:

Your tax bill went up? Well cry me a river. Life ain't fare. No one cares.


Yes, except the reval is actually the epitome of fairness. They're upset that everything is fair now lol.

Posted on: 2018/2/27 12:56
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When it comes to Yvonne, I think The Simpsons said it best




Posted on: 2018/2/27 12:39
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I hereby sentence you to seven more years of MAGA for that comment!

Posted on: 2018/2/27 10:08
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And there's a special place for those who lie repeatedly.


Yeah. The White House.

Posted on: 2018/2/27 5:33
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In reading this thread all I see is a lot of energy being spent arguing for/against something that isn't going to change.

Your tax bill went up? Well cry me a river. Life ain't fare. No one cares. Deal with it.

How's the saying go?? Nothing in life is guaranteed except death and taxes. Just be glad you're dealing with the latter and not the former.

Posted on: 2018/2/27 5:09
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Can we stop feeding the troll?

Since the basic points have been gone into already, lets keep replies to useful updates and new points to be discussed.

Posted on: 2018/2/27 1:14
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Yvonne wrote:
It is evident on the blog who are involved in real estate, you are just protecting your deals and do not want to see changes. You do not want fairness, just continue with your deals. There is a special place for you in the afterlife.


And there's a special place for those who lie repeatedly.

Posted on: 2018/2/27 0:27
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Yvonne wrote:
Here is an article from the newspaper that states the average homeowner in Hudson County pays $8,500 so those downtown folks who are paying $14,000 to $16,000 in taxes are paying much more than their neighbors. The new assessments of $20,000 to $40,000 do not make sense. http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... 2box_nj-homepage-featured


Properties in DT JC are not average Hudson County properties.

Are you kidding, stupid or just deceitful?

Posted on: 2018/2/26 23:07
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Please compare to comparable values. Homes downtown are not worth the "average" in the state.


Baloney, the people I know paid for their homes in the 1970s and 1980s at costs less than $100,000 and should not have taxes based on $2 to $3 million. That is just a way to legally steal someone's property. Taxes should be based on someone's income, it is the wealthy who do projects and avoid full taxes with their tax abatements that get away with not paying their fair share.


Why shouldn’t they?

Posted on: 2018/2/26 22:38
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Jesus Christ, it's like talking to a wall. You just don't get it. I try to stay respectful, but you make it very, very difficult.

Have you watched Westworld? She actually sounds just like a robot "host", caught in her endless loop and when presented with evidence from outside the "park" (in her mind ) simply replies "that doesn't look like anything to me".

Oh God, now I'm picturing Yvonne sidling up to a cowpoke at the bar and saying "You must be new, not much of a rind on you".


Nailed it.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 21:12
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It is evident on the blog who are involved in real estate, you are just protecting your deals and do not want to see changes. You do not want fairness, just continue with your deals. There is a special place for you in the afterlife.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 21:12
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HeightsNative wrote:
Jesus Christ, it's like talking to a wall. You just don't get it. I try to stay respectful, but you make it very, very difficult.

Have you watched Westworld? She actually sounds just like a robot "host", caught in her endless loop and when presented with evidence from outside the "park" (in her mind ) simply replies "that doesn't look like anything to me".

Oh God, now I'm picturing Yvonne sidling up to a cowpoke at the bar and saying "You must be new, not much of a rind on you".

Posted on: 2018/2/26 21:03
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Yvonne wrote:
It is amazing how the truth creates this reaction, however, it is not my truth, but the truth from the Hudson County Tax Board. I do not create the numbers on the ratable base, they do. The board is waiting for the numbers to be file and expects to get the complete list in maybe six weeks. I stand by what I said until the Hudson County Tax Boards says something different.


Jesus Christ, it's like talking to a wall. You just don't get it. I try to stay respectful, but you make it very, very difficult.


Yes, you are right, I don't get the city giving sweetheart tax abatement deals while allowing long term homeowners lose their properties. It is the equivalent of throwing grandma into the streets.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 21:01
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Yvonne wrote:
It is amazing how the truth creates this reaction, however, it is not my truth, but the truth from the Hudson County Tax Board. I do not create the numbers on the ratable base, they do. The board is waiting for the numbers to be file and expects to get the complete list in maybe six weeks. I stand by what I said until the Hudson County Tax Boards says something different.


Jesus Christ, it's like talking to a wall. You just don't get it. I try to stay respectful, but you make it very, very difficult.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 20:48
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Yvonne wrote:
Here is an article from the newspaper that states the average homeowner in Hudson County pays $8,500 so those downtown folks who are paying $14,000 to $16,000 in taxes are paying much more than their neighbors. The new assessments of $20,000 to $40,000 do not make sense. http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/ ... 2box_nj-homepage-featured
It's almost like the houses in Downtown are worth much more than the average in the county. Weird.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 20:42
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It is amazing how the truth creates this reaction, however, it is not my truth, but the truth from the Hudson County Tax Board. I do not create the numbers on the ratable base, they do. The board is waiting for the numbers to be file and expects to get the complete list in maybe six weeks. I stand by what I said until the Hudson County Tax Boards says something different.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 20:33
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Yvonne wrote:
I just called up the county tax assessor and asked for the tax abated ratables which is not part of the $28 billion from the new reval. He agreed with me those tax abatements are not included but he does not have those numbers until the papers are filed. I am guessing that protected tax abated ratable base is around $10 billion, but it is only a guess since some do expire and new ones are added each year. Just to think, if those abatements were ratables, then everyone taxes would be lowered. But let's ignore the truth as usual.



Let's assume, for argument's sake, that you are right (a huge leap of faith, given your proven history of incorrect assertions) and let's assume that abated properties in JC amount to $10 billion. The taxes on that, based on 1.62%, would be $162 MM. About half of that would go to the city, so 81 MM. Now, let's look at the *data* (freely available online, but here is a link to the 2016 budget: https://public.tableau.com/profile/jer ... 11-2016/2016TotalRevenues) and we easily find out that (surprise!) PILOTs contribute ~128 MM to the city budget. Wow. Those evil interlopers are getting a free ride and the city is doing worse because they are paying an extra 47 MM to the city coffers. Wait. What? The city is better off because PILOTs are contributing an extra $47 MM to the budget than they would otherwise? That's crazy...

Put simply, the data once again shows you are full of it. The city is doing just fine with abatements. In fact, if you could magically waive a wand and do away with all abatements today, and moved everyone to regular taxes, the city would have to find almost $50 MM somewhere to plug the hole left behind from the difference in tax revenue. Stop spreading falsehoods.


The only flaw here is if anything changed with Abbott funding. Then the city would be up the creek.


Yes, but in exchange for that "security" (ie, a few residents being protected from future changes in school funding) the city is getting an additional 50 MM from those in abated properties NOW. So, I do not feel one bit of concern for the city, or the longterm DTJC residents that have gotten a "free ride" for so long.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 20:22
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Yvonne wrote:
I just called up the county tax assessor and asked for the tax abated ratables which is not part of the $28 billion from the new reval. He agreed with me those tax abatements are not included but he does not have those numbers until the papers are filed. I am guessing that protected tax abated ratable base is around $10 billion, but it is only a guess since some do expire and new ones are added each year. Just to think, if those abatements were ratables, then everyone taxes would be lowered. But let's ignore the truth as usual.



Let's assume, for argument's sake, that you are right (a huge leap of faith, given your proven history of incorrect assertions) and let's assume that abated properties in JC amount to $10 billion. The taxes on that, based on 1.62%, would be $162 MM. About half of that would go to the city, so 81 MM. Now, let's look at the *data* (freely available online, but here is a link to the 2016 budget: https://public.tableau.com/profile/jer ... 11-2016/2016TotalRevenues) and we easily find out that (surprise!) PILOTs contribute ~128 MM to the city budget. Wow. Those evil interlopers are getting a free ride and the city is doing worse because they are paying an extra 47 MM to the city coffers. Wait. What? The city is better off because PILOTs are contributing an extra $47 MM to the budget than they would otherwise? That's crazy...

Put simply, the data once again shows you are full of it. The city is doing just fine with abatements. In fact, if you could magically waive a wand and do away with all abatements today, and moved everyone to regular taxes, the city would have to find almost $50 MM somewhere to plug the hole left behind from the difference in tax revenue. Stop spreading falsehoods.


The only flaw here is if anything changed with Abbott funding. Then the city would be up the creek.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 20:16
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Yvonne wrote:
I just called up the county tax assessor and asked for the tax abated ratables which is not part of the $28 billion from the new reval. He agreed with me those tax abatements are not included but he does not have those numbers until the papers are filed. I am guessing that protected tax abated ratable base is around $10 billion, but it is only a guess since some do expire and new ones are added each year. Just to think, if those abatements were ratables, then everyone taxes would be lowered. But let's ignore the truth as usual.



Let's assume, for argument's sake, that you are right (a huge leap of faith, given your proven history of incorrect assertions) and let's assume that abated properties in JC amount to $10 billion. The taxes on that, based on 1.62%, would be $162 MM. About half of that would go to the city, so 81 MM. Now, let's look at the *data* (freely available online, but here is a link to the 2016 budget: https://public.tableau.com/profile/jer ... 11-2016/2016TotalRevenues) and we easily find out that (surprise!) PILOTs contribute ~128 MM to the city budget. Wow. Those evil interlopers are getting a free ride and the city is doing worse because they are paying an extra 47 MM to the city coffers. Wait. What? The city is better off because PILOTs are contributing an extra $47 MM to the budget than they would otherwise? That's crazy...

Put simply, the data once again shows you are full of it. The city is doing just fine with abatements. In fact, if you could magically waive a wand and do away with all abatements today, and moved everyone to regular taxes, the city would have to find almost $50 MM somewhere to plug the hole left behind from the difference in tax revenue. Stop spreading falsehoods.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 19:56
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And again, if you're complaining about paying 1.62%, you truly have lost your mind. Considering the state picks up most of the $700mm school budget, for awful and failing schools, you have nothing to complain about.

Question for the group, how many total actual properties are in JC in this reval? Divide that by $500mm or so, and then tell me 1.62% is too high. I didn't think so.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 19:55
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Yvonne, you keep talking about the ratables not realizing you're defeating your own argument. As pointed out right after, the ratables lay more towards the city than non ratables on a percentage basis. Since PILOTS pay nothing for schools, and the schools are subsidized heavily by the state, one could argue PILOTS aren't the problem.

Market appreciation is the fundamental reasons your house rich friends are paying higher, but finally appropriate, taxes on their million dollar plus homes. Yes they got sweetheart deals but we are here now. Again, you keep crying wolf on them saying they're losing their homes, which makes YOU part of their problem. There are options. If they anyone loses their home, they're either too stupid, or too lazy to seek out these options.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 19:53
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JC schools aren't underfunded when they spend 25% more per student than the state average.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 19:36
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Yvonne wrote:
I just called up the county tax assessor and asked for the tax abated ratables which is not part of the $28 billion from the new reval. He agreed with me those tax abatements are not included but he does not have those numbers until the papers are filed. I am guessing that protected tax abated ratable base is around $10 billion, but it is only a guess since some do expire and new ones are added each year. Just to think, if those abatements were ratables, then everyone taxes would be lowered. But let's ignore the truth as usual.


Here's some truth for you - since 2008, when we purchased our current home we've been paying a "non-ratable" PILOT (abatement) of $26,000 per year. When I look on the list of newly assessed properties, I don't see anyone on there who was previously paying a "ratable" property tax anywhere near that much.

Do you understand where those "not-ratable" PILOT payments go? To the city! (95% of it, anyway - a much, much higher percentage than "ratable" tax payments.) Look in the city budget - I haven't in the past few years, but there will be a line in there for PILOT revenues. It's probably in the $125 million to $150 million range (it was $115 million about five years ago.) Stabilize? Anyone who bought under a PILOT since about 2004 has likely been overpaying what they would have been without the payment.

I'll listen to the argument about school's being underfunded, but I didn't come up with this structure and it's hard to say I'm "taking advantage" of anything, since by all accounts I've been overpaying. Sure, I'll be underpaying for the next ten years, relative to the new assessments, but it probably ends up being a wash overall. As for the part that the county doesn't get - I'm glad they aren't getting anything from PILOTs. We should be looking seriously at how we dissolve county services - or (better yet) roll everything up into the county and eliminate municipalities in Hudson County. But to have both is redundant - why duplicate generally poor services with even poorer services?

Posted on: 2018/2/26 19:29
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Hey Yvonne, you have so many comments on why the system is f'cked, what is your solution? If you were the mayor, how would you have dealt with the court order to perform the reval?

I'm not asking about what you would have done in the past 30 years; I'm asking what you would have done if you were in the same situation as Fulop. If the courts were forcing you to do something, in your opinion is very unpopular, how would you have done it differently? How would you balance the needs of your neighbors who have been living in DTJC their whole lives versus the needs of the people who have been overpaying?

Posted on: 2018/2/26 19:22
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The only way income is used to determine real estate taxes in NJ benefits JC. To determine local school funding Trenton takes into account how affluent towns are, then gives them very little $ back in school support. This benefits Abbott district schools, like JC. That leads to towns like Millburn/Short Hills paying 90% of its school costs, vs JC taxpayers spending 17%.

So Yvonne wants even more tax relief?

Tell your cash poor, property rich friends to tap their equity and shut up. Living in JC for years doesn't entitle you to special treatment.


But it does entitle the wealthy developers who contribute to campaigns generous tax abatements and redevelopment loans.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 19:15
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The only way income is used to determine real estate taxes in NJ benefits JC. To determine local school funding Trenton takes into account how affluent towns are, then gives them very little $ back in school support. This benefits Abbott district schools, like JC. That leads to towns like Millburn/Short Hills paying 90% of its school costs, vs JC taxpayers spending 17%.

So Yvonne wants even more tax relief?

Tell your cash poor, property rich friends to tap their equity and shut up. Living in JC for years doesn't entitle you to special treatment.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 19:07
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Yes, it does matter, tax abatements are excluded from the ratable base which is what your taxes are based on. But taxes are services meaning everyone get the same services. No one tells someone using the courts, since you only pay 5% you cannot use the courts, while regular folks who pays taxes fork over 26% of every dollar to the county. The same is true for the board of ed. Someone else is paying other fair share of taxes. People will lose their homes based on this fact and if tax abatements were ratable, instead of $1.62, it could be just $1.00 or something in that neighborhood.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 18:51
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Yvonne wrote:
I just called up the county tax assessor and asked for the tax abated ratables which is not part of the $28 billion from the new reval. He agreed with me those tax abatements are not included but he does not have those numbers until the papers are filed. I am guessing that protected tax abated ratable base is around $10 billion, but it is only a guess since some do expire and new ones are added each year. Just to think, if those abatements were ratables, then everyone taxes would be lowered. But let's ignore the truth as usual.


I know I just said I'd stop trying to explain, but here I am. Yvonne, respectfully, no one is arguiing the points you're making about the impact of abatements, but they're not relevant to this discussion. At 1.62%, that's one of, if not the, lowest rate in the entire STATE. I fyou're friends are sitting on multi million dollar properties, they're not poor, and as mentioned before, need to consult a banker to access that equity and pay the taxes.

Posted on: 2018/2/26 17:55

Edited by HeightsNative on 2018/2/26 18:18:25
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