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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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This monument was not meant to be bizarre. If it is perceived that way just signifies that it is artistically bad, way too literal.

You don't create Holocaust memorials depicting corpses being loaded into ovens.

The sculptor here resorted to shock value because he had no better ideas to convey the tragedy of mass murder of Polish war prisoners by the Soviets.




Posted on: 2018/5/1 15:34
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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brewster wrote:
There was also the recent example of the graffiti in Queens. A building owner was rewarded for generously letting artists paint on his property by them trying to say he could no longer do with it what he wished. It cost him millions.

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In February, 21 artists who contributed 45 works to the legendary Queens graffiti complex 5Pointz won a landmark lawsuit. A federal judge ruled that the building’s owners, Jerry Wockoff and G&M Realty, had to pay the artists a combined $6.7 million for infamously whitewashing their works overnight in 2013.


Talk about an overly simplistic assessment of what happened at 5Pointz

Posted on: 2018/5/1 15:30
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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While I also appreciate it's bizarreness, I'm not in favor of a policy of "once you place public art, you can never, ever remove it". I used to live in Tribeca near Foley Sq, and the plaza at Worth & Lafayette was filled with a Serra "sculpture" called "Tilted Arc". It was hideous, looked like nuclear blast shield, and totally disrupted use of the park. I was glad when it was removed after much breast beating about the "rights of the artist".

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Now, it's not the greatest, could use some trees, but at least it's for humans.

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There was also the recent example of the graffiti in Queens. A building owner was rewarded for generously letting artists paint on his property by them trying to say he could no longer do with it what he wished. It cost him millions.

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In February, 21 artists who contributed 45 works to the legendary Queens graffiti complex 5Pointz won a landmark lawsuit. A federal judge ruled that the building’s owners, Jerry Wockoff and G&M Realty, had to pay the artists a combined $6.7 million for infamously whitewashing their works overnight in 2013.

Posted on: 2018/5/1 15:04
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Bayonne will take it.

Posted on: 2018/5/1 14:36
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I have grown to love this monument for all of its bizarre-ness. hope it stays.

Posted on: 2018/5/1 0:49
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne can get unhinged, and Bodipooh is a friend, but leave the statue in place. We need to remember these atrocities.

Posted on: 2018/5/1 0:05
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY — Plans to relocate a memorial commemorating the massacre of tens of thousands of Polish officers by the Soviet Union in 1940 is facing opposition here in Jersey City and from the Polish Consulate.

The Katyn memorial, a 34-foot-tall monument depicting a bound-and-gagged soldier impaled in the back by a bayoneted rifle, has been a fixture at Exchange Place since 1991. The city plans to put it in storage during a planned transformation of the Exchange Place plaza into a public park, and the statue may not return to its current location.

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Posted on: 2018/4/30 23:42
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I'd block out a parking space on Yvonne's street and install it there as a mini-park.

Posted on: 2016/3/20 18:19
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Garfield,NJ has space by their river.

Posted on: 2016/3/20 14:02
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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If it were up to me I'd move it. Move it to a nice green park somewhere. A place where someone could take time to view it and reflect. Rather than have it in the middle of a busy urban business place.

Posted on: 2016/3/19 20:03
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
I feel sorry for you. You still hide behind a phony name throwing garbage. You have no moral center. Really sad.


Lol, keep saying the things you say, comedy gold.

Posted on: 2016/3/19 1:18
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I feel sorry for you. You still hide behind a phony name throwing garbage. You have no moral center. Really sad.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 23:54
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
[quote]
Yvonne wrote:
I know my history.


NO. You don't. There was no submarine attack at Black Tom Island. It was ruled / determined to be the work of saboteurs.


YOU are the one that made the claim that the Black Tom explosions were the cause of a German submarine. How about YOU provide proof of that claim? You are truly, truly delusional. Your own link states that the explosions were due to other possibilities.


Yvonne knows because she was on the sub! That's the most logical explanation.


She is an ignorant, racist, deluded megalomaniac. At first, it is amusing, then annoying, and now it is simply irritating.

There is ONLY ONE documented instance of a location in the U.S. coming under hostile fire in WWI. A German U-boat was attacking a tug boat, and some shells overflew the target, landing on a beach on the coast of MA. But, sure, why let facts get on the way of Yvonne's version of history.


No wonder you use a phony name, I actually feel sorry for you. You cannot say this to me in person, only on a blog using a phony name.

Racism? It is this administration who praises the changes of downtown through development. I don't it removed Hispanic and blacks. Your comment on racism is way off base. This is my comment on what happened. In the 1970s and 1980s downtown had good communities in Paulus Hook, Van Vorst, and Hamilton. The factory workers own their own town homes. Historic preservation, tax abatements which are not ratables and the reval displaced long term blacks and Hispanic. I am against policies that displace people. You are so full of hate you are clueless to facts. Yes, I do feel sorry for you.


If you want to know my name, you can google it. It is a bit of an open secret, and others here very well know what is is. Of course, why google my name when you can't even bother to google the nonsense you spew. Are you now ready to admit you were wrong about your Black Tom Island falsehood? Or, are you going to do as usual and change topics??

I call you a racist because of your many positions publicly stated here. Why remove the Katyn monument? Why does it bother you? Honoring history, ours and others, is a smart thing to do which enriches our culture and our understanding of the world around us. Also, why do you complain and refuse to accept the current naming of LMM Blvd? Is it because it is named after a Puerto Rican? A demographic you insist on calling immigrants, even when others have corrected you on the matter. LMM is as American as a Hawaiian, or an Alaskan, or a Texan, for that matter. It bothers you that the street was renamed? Get over it. It's been decades since that change. Streets get renamed ALL THE TIME. Things change with time. That's life.

I will repeat myself: you an ignorant, racist, megalomaniac. You are also an agitator, as evidenced by your presence at community meetings all over JC in which you insist to impose your anachronistic view on others, often by hoarding and monopolizing the meetings and microphone time.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 21:52
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
[quote]
Yvonne wrote:
I know my history.


NO. You don't. There was no submarine attack at Black Tom Island. It was ruled / determined to be the work of saboteurs.


YOU are the one that made the claim that the Black Tom explosions were the cause of a German submarine. How about YOU provide proof of that claim? You are truly, truly delusional. Your own link states that the explosions were due to other possibilities.


Yvonne knows because she was on the sub! That's the most logical explanation.


She is an ignorant, racist, deluded megalomaniac. At first, it is amusing, then annoying, and now it is simply irritating.

There is ONLY ONE documented instance of a location in the U.S. coming under hostile fire in WWI. A German U-boat was attacking a tug boat, and some shells overflew the target, landing on a beach on the coast of MA. But, sure, why let facts get on the way of Yvonne's version of history.


No wonder you use a phony name, I actually feel sorry for you. You cannot say this to me in person, only on a blog using a phony name.

Racism? It is this administration who praises the changes of downtown through development. I don't it removed Hispanic and blacks. Your comment on racism is way off base. This is my comment on what happened. In the 1970s and 1980s downtown had good communities in Paulus Hook, Van Vorst, and Hamilton. The factory workers own their own town homes. Historic preservation, tax abatements which are not ratables and the reval displaced long term blacks and Hispanic. I am against policies that displace people. You are so full of hate you are clueless to facts. Yes, I do feel sorry for you.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 19:42
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I love that statue.

I had written a long post, but deleted it and decided to save it for City Hall.

This might the the ONLY issue that brings me to a city council meeting, and I've lived in Jersey City for 30 years.

Every once in a while, someone on this board complains about that statue.

If it ever goes to city council to get rid of it or move it, I will make my first appearance.

And I'm not Polish.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 19:23
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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It's an excellent statue, educational, striking and different, how many other statues in Jersey City cause you to stop and take notice?

I vote it statue of the century!

Sure beats the 1000th iteration of a man on a horse, or dull Washington spike (is it part of the constitution that all monuments to George Washington must be in the form of an upright spike like the one in Paulus Hook?).

Robin.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 19:12
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Many American soldiers died in JC during World Wars 1 & 2.


Huh. I wasn't aware of the great battles of WWs 1 and 2 that took place in Jersey City. You really do learn something new every day.


She was presumably talking about soldiers killed by criminals during their leave.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 19:10
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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But guys, that monument is unique and interesting. Everything going up around us is so bland and corporate. Yeah, it is grotesque, macabre, from long ago and relevant to a community that exists to a lesser extent than immigrants from the very part of the world that committed the massacre, but if nothing else it is a cool conversation piece. As to discussions of replacing it with a monument to something more "relevant" like Native Americans or slavery or whatever, that would be hugely political and the last thing we need. Whatever you could say about the monument, it isn't driving identity politics or supportive of any political spectrum. It is just an interesting piece of art.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 19:03
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I like it. #Samsung's olive #samsungsolveps5

Posted on: 2016/3/18 18:51
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Not me! I like it. One of the simple pleasures of living in a city is wandering around, and finding statues and monuments to long-lost historic figures and events. Some, like 'Memory', the memorial to the Mr. & Mrs. Strauss, who died on the Titanic, are lovely - tho' you wouldn't know what it's for. Some, like the Bear and Bison (?) sculpture in Leonard Gordon Park in my neighborhood are baffling at first, but a delight once you know the history.

I vote not only for keeping it, but more public sculpture that enhances our sense of history.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 17:57
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Vigilante wrote:
At least they didn't put up a statue of this prick!

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Controversial sidebar opinion: Gandhi actually was a prick! Total racist.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 17:51
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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SOS wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
[quote]
Yvonne wrote:
I know my history.


NO. You don't. There was no submarine attack at Black Tom Island. It was ruled / determined to be the work of saboteurs.


YOU are the one that made the claim that the Black Tom explosions were the cause of a German submarine. How about YOU provide proof of that claim? You are truly, truly delusional. Your own link states that the explosions were due to other possibilities.


Yvonne knows because she was on the sub! That's the most logical explanation.


She is an ignorant, racist, deluded megalomaniac. At first, it is amusing, then annoying, and now it is simply irritating.

There is ONLY ONE documented instance of a location in the U.S. coming under hostile fire in WWI. A German U-boat was attacking a tug boat, and some shells overflew the target, landing on a beach on the coast of MA. But, sure, why let facts get on the way of Yvonne's version of history.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 17:51
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne knows because she was on the sub! That's the most logical explanation.


No, she heard from a friend who was on the sub. The same friend who saw all those Muslims celebrating in JC on 9/11. It's also the friend who had to stop going to his doctor because of the pedestrian plaza on Newark Ave.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 17:47
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
[quote]
Yvonne wrote:
I know my history.


NO. You don't. There was no submarine attack at Black Tom Island. It was ruled / determined to be the work of saboteurs.


YOU are the one that made the claim that the Black Tom explosions were the cause of a German submarine. How about YOU provide proof of that claim? You are truly, truly delusional. Your own link states that the explosions were due to other possibilities.


Yvonne knows because she was on the sub! That's the most logical explanation.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 16:30
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
I know my history.


NO. You don't. There was no submarine attack at Black Tom Island. It was ruled / determined to be the work of saboteurs.


Where is your proof?


YOU are the one that made the claim that the Black Tom explosions were the cause of a German submarine. How about YOU provide proof of that claim? You are truly, truly delusional. Your own link states that the explosions were due to other possibilities.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 15:50
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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At least they didn't put up a statue of this prick!

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Posted on: 2016/3/18 15:45
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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[Do you even know who is the person being honored/remembered by Marin Blvd?


No, she doesn't. She and her husband call it Henderson Street in one of her home videos (railing about parking, no doubt). It was quite hilarious because no one had any clue wtf they were babbling about, using a long-defunct street name.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 15:41
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne: I believe monuments should reflect the US history not another country's history.


You should certainly start advocating for the immediate elimination of all those monuments to that foreign guy from Nazareth that seem to be all over the city. It's a disgrace, really. I mean, the whole operation is headed up by foreigners anyway - even to this day! And the buildings they're in front of? Yup, paid for by poor working men and women. What really takes the cake is that the behemoth that runs the whole racket doesn't even pay taxes! There should be an investigation.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 15:40

Edited by jerseymom on 2016/3/18 16:00:17
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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CatDog wrote:
how about the link that YOU POSTED CHRIST DO YOU EVEN READ WHAT YOU WRITE

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
No, there was not battles here except for Black Tom, which was the name of Porte Liberte then. There was an explosion from a German sub. But the people who served in those wars were from JC had a high mortality rate. The generals recognized their sacrifice. There was a sign called "Old Glory." I know my history.

https://www.njcu.edu/programs/jchistor ... s/Black_Tom_Explosion.htm


"On the evening of the Black Tom incident, barges and freight cars at the depot were reportedly filled with over two million pounds of ammunition waiting to be shipped overseas. The munitions at the depot included shrapnel, black powder, TNT and dynamite. The Johnson Barge No.17, for example, held some one hundred thousand pounds of TNT. Given these incendiary devices, the Black Tom facility was not securely gated to safeguard the nearby civilian population from the potential of foul play.

Had the fire begun as a result of "spontaneous combustion," carelessness of one of the employees or guards, or German sabotage?

A suspect in the incident was Michael Kristoff, a 23-year old immigrant living with relatives in nearby Bayonne and a former employer at the Tidewater Oil Company. Kristoff is said to have started the fires at Black Tom with incendiary devices in exchange for five hundred dollars."

it never even mentions submarines. God Yvonne


I am not a diety, you can use the term Yvonne, not God Yvonne.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 15:38
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
The monument happened because Mayor Cucci and Councilman Vazquez were courting the Polish vote. It does not belong in JC. It is more appropriate in a cemetery. My late mother in law was Polish, so I am not anti-Polish. But this does not belong. I believe monuments should reflect the US history not another country's history.


We should tear the statue down and install a parking lot. amirite?

Or at least build a statue of the person to build the first parking lot in Jersey City.

Posted on: 2016/3/18 15:34
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