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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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CatDog wrote:
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You are an example of a liberal who cannot take another point of view and makes personal attacks, something that is morally wrong because you have no facts.
says the lady whining about liberals that are pointing out how wrong she is. Every time someone calls you out on your BS you start crying about "wahhhh the liberals are being so mean to me" "wahhh it's because I'm a Catholic" "oooooh those mean liberals always trying to correct my lies"

You're over here complaining about statues for foreigners, and then demand we have public statues of religious symbols because there were priests on the ship with Columbus? Columbus, the foreign slave-driving psycopathic torture fanatic that never even set foot in the US?


I think we should replace the statue with a PC-friendly LGBT memorial or shrine. I bet she'll change her tune on Katyn real quick.

Posted on: 2018/5/3 15:25
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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You are an example of a liberal who cannot take another point of view and makes personal attacks, something that is morally wrong because you have no facts.
says the lady whining about liberals that are pointing out how wrong she is. Every time someone calls you out on your BS you start crying about "wahhhh the liberals are being so mean to me" "wahhh it's because I'm a Catholic" "oooooh those mean liberals always trying to correct my lies"

You're over here complaining about statues for foreigners, and then demand we have public statues of religious symbols because there were priests on the ship with Columbus? Columbus, the foreign slave-driving psycopathic torture fanatic that never even set foot in the US?

Posted on: 2018/5/3 14:54
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
It is pathetic that people here do not know priests were on board the ships when Columbus traveled. You want to whitewash history. Columbus was a religious guy. I guess next you want erase Reverend from the title of Dr. King. The correct title is Reverend Dr. King. https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/ ... le/why-did-columbus-sail/
Columbus never set foot in what is now the United States, you nincompoop.


Where did I say Columbus set foot in the US? He did set foot in what later became the New World which includes the US. You are an example of a liberal who cannot take another point of view and makes personal attacks, something that is morally wrong because you have no facts. It is pathetic you and other do this, what a disgrace. I truly feel sorry for anyone that stoops so low in personal attacks because you lack a moral center.

Posted on: 2018/5/3 13:51
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
It is pathetic that people here do not know priests were on board the ships when Columbus traveled. You want to whitewash history. Columbus was a religious guy. I guess next you want erase Reverend from the title of Dr. King. The correct title is Reverend Dr. King. https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/ ... le/why-did-columbus-sail/
Columbus never set foot in what is now the United States, you nincompoop.

Posted on: 2018/5/3 3:33
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Yes, my comments are far fetching, such as monuments should be a reflection of the US history. After all, I do not see US monuments in other countries especially the Middle East.
Besides loads of WW2 memorials, there are 9/11 memorials in a few countries around the world. A big difference of course, is that the US is a nation of immigrants, and has not sent many immigrants out to other countries.

Posted on: 2018/5/3 3:30
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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stillinjc wrote:
This monument was not meant to be bizarre. If it is perceived that way just signifies that it is artistically bad, way too literal.

You don't create Holocaust memorials depicting corpses being loaded into ovens.

The sculptor here resorted to shock value because he had no better ideas to convey the tragedy of mass murder of Polish war prisoners by the Soviets.
What about these?
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(the last one is the irish hunger, not the holocaust)

look, just because you want life to be sunshine and roses doesn't mean it's a bad statue. It's a fantastic statue, and even if it moves, I hope it stays somewhere prominent. It's an icon of this city now, whether you like it or not.

Posted on: 2018/5/3 3:26
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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You are correct, I did overlook that, but that happened due to necessity. The American deaths happened because they were protecting France so it became part of French history.

Posted on: 2018/5/2 19:57
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Yes, my comments are far fetching, such as monuments should be a reflection of the US history. After all, I do not see US monuments in other countries especially the Middle East.


Perhaps you overlook the many US Military Cemeteries, the final resting places for America's global sacrifice against fascists and communists.

Favorite story is DeGaulle in the 60's on some sort of nationalist rant, wanting all Americans out of France! To which a US SoS retorted... "even the dead ones?"

Posted on: 2018/5/2 17:12
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Typical liberal, Azul_the_Cat when called out, let's do personal attacks.


Typical right-winger, not getting the joke.


Thanks... I lean right, but that was a joke!

Posted on: 2018/5/2 17:05
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yes, my comments are far fetching, such as monuments should be a reflection of the US history. After all, I do not see US monuments in other countries especially the Middle East.

Posted on: 2018/5/2 16:14
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I'm going to make a suggestion, and I will try to stay as respectful as possible. Almost every single thread on here worth debating tends to diverge into a Yvonne vs. the world discussion. Let's try a month of completely ignoring any and all comments from Yvonne. I say that not out of disrespect to Yvonne (despite usually disagreeing with her views), but moreso out of respect for dialogue and discussion. Some of you (bodhipooh, etc.) raise great points and offer something to the discussion, and should keep it focused on that.

Can we at least try it? I mean literally no responding to or acknowledging Yvonne's responses, no matter how left field or out of order they are.

Posted on: 2018/5/2 15:58
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Typical liberal, Azul_the_Cat when called out, let's do personal attacks.


Typical right-winger, not getting the joke.


Quit picking on Yvonne! It's not her fault she was born without a sense of humor! Or she had it excised in some dark ritual....

Posted on: 2018/5/2 15:27
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Typical liberal, Azul_the_Cat when called out, let's do personal attacks.


Typical right-winger, not getting the joke.

Posted on: 2018/5/2 15:16
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Typical liberal, Azul_the_Cat when called out, let's do personal attacks.

Posted on: 2018/5/2 13:25
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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TheBigGuy wrote:
As long as we are removing monuments along the waterfront memorializing international atrocities then we need to consider the 911 Memorial at the foot of Grand Street.

In our new social justice world... the sight of a rusting WTC girder triggers the worst thoughts and fears about Muslim Terror. Hasn't the world moved past that...


What does social justice has to do with honoring an event that took place in our country? Then you add Muslim Terror as though you do not want to offend a particular group. I am sure there are memorials to the victims who died from the Oklahoma City bomber. Using your analogy, perhaps we should tear down memorials around the country dedicated to the victims of slavery, after all, we, as a society has moved past that.


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Posted on: 2018/5/2 13:19
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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TheBigGuy wrote:
As long as we are removing monuments along the waterfront memorializing international atrocities then we need to consider the 911 Memorial at the foot of Grand Street.

In our new social justice world... the sight of a rusting WTC girder triggers the worst thoughts and fears about Muslim Terror. Hasn't the world moved past that...


What does social justice has to do with honoring an event that took place in our country? Then you add Muslim Terror as though you do not want to offend a particular group. I am sure there are memorials to the victims who died from the Oklahoma City bomber. Using your analogy, perhaps we should tear down memorials around the country dedicated to the victims of slavery, after all, we, as a society has moved past that.

Posted on: 2018/5/2 13:04
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
It is pathetic that people here do not know priests were on board the ships when Columbus traveled. You want to whitewash history. Columbus was a religious guy. I guess next you want erase Reverend from the title of Dr. King. The correct title is Reverend Dr. King. https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/ ... le/why-did-columbus-sail/


Not surprisingly you missed the point entirely.

Posted on: 2018/5/2 12:21
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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As long as we are removing monuments along the waterfront memorializing international atrocities then we need to consider the 911 Memorial at the foot of Grand Street.

In our new social justice world... the sight of a rusting WTC girder triggers the worst thoughts and fears about Muslim Terror. Hasn't the world moved past that...

Posted on: 2018/5/2 10:02
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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It is pathetic that people here do not know priests were on board the ships when Columbus traveled. You want to whitewash history. Columbus was a religious guy. I guess next you want erase Reverend from the title of Dr. King. The correct title is Reverend Dr. King. https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/ ... le/why-did-columbus-sail/

Posted on: 2018/5/2 2:57
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
You do realize there are no crosses on public property.


Gurl...

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Posted on: 2018/5/1 23:14
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Councilman Vazquez pushed for this monument to shore up the Polish vote in Hamilton Park and Paulus Hook. Personally, monuments should be about events in America, not another country.


If this were a Confederacy statue I bet you'd be opposed to having it removed. Yvonne is a snowflake that can't handle certain truths and resents the fact she lives in a city full of immigrants. Interesting that she's forced to take sides with a developer in order to push her NIMBY agenda.

Posted on: 2018/5/1 22:33
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Bike_Lane wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Councilman Vazquez pushed for this monument to shore up the Polish vote in Hamilton Park and Paulus Hook. Personally, monuments should be about events in America, not another country.


Let's do away with crosses, then. The crucifixion didn't happen in America.


Why would you do away with crosses on private property? Are you Dracula or a possessed person who cannot look at the cross? You do realize there are no crosses on public property.

Posted on: 2018/5/1 22:21
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Councilman Vazquez pushed for this monument to shore up the Polish vote in Hamilton Park and Paulus Hook. Personally, monuments should be about events in America, not another country.


Let's do away with crosses, then. The crucifixion didn't happen in America.

Posted on: 2018/5/1 22:06
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Councilman Vazquez pushed for this monument to shore up the Polish vote in Hamilton Park and Paulus Hook. Personally, monuments should be about events in America, not another country.

Posted on: 2018/5/1 21:59
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Wasn't there something about a monument on this thread??

Sheesh!

Posted on: 2018/5/1 20:23
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:

Whatever your thought/opinions on property rights, I think this can be filed under: Once you give someone something for free, it's hard to take it away from them.


We can agree on that for sure! But I disagree with the notion that by painting on his building the artists gained rights to it. It was HIS building to paint, notwithstanding the fact that is motivation to paint it was to remove the art that could potentially remove his property from his control.

But the outcome will be no one will ever let someone use their property for free for gardens or art or whatever if they think that will bite them in the ass down the road. And I think we all will be the poorer for that. I'm certain we would not have all these murals around JC if the building owners thought they would lose control of their properties by allowing it.

Posted on: 2018/5/1 19:46
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
In the 1980s, the take his name away and give it to some one who represents another ethnic group and never lived in the USA.


He did live in the USA!

Posted on: 2018/5/1 19:30
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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brewster wrote:
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
Talk about an overly simplistic assessment of what happened at 5Pointz


How so? From your article:

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When word got out that Wolkoff was planning to replace the warehouse with high-rise condos, the artists mounted a public campaign to save the building, and Cohen, the site’s de facto leader, petitioned the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission for landmark status.


He let them paint, and they tried to take away his property rights. The property was not notable as a landmark except for the graffiti. Reminds me of the property owners who let people create community gardens on their vacant lots, and then when the time was ripe to develop there, they had to fight those groups. File under "no good deeds go unpunished".


Also from the article:
In addition to finding that aerosol art does qualify for protection under VARA, both the judge and jury considered Wolkoff’s method of destruction so irresponsible as to warrant the maximum penalties.

“If not for Wolkoff’s insolence, these damages would not have been assessed,” Block wrote in his decision. “If he did not destroy 5Pointz until he received his permits and demolished it 10 months later, the Court would not have found that he had acted willfully.”


The developer shot himself in the foot when he decided to whitewash the walls in the middle of the night.

Whatever your thought/opinions on property rights, I think this can be filed under: Once you give someone something for free, it's hard to take it away from them.

Posted on: 2018/5/1 18:48
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I always thought that it was a little too much--too graphic, but maybe there should be a vote on it.
A sculpture celebrating Jersey City's diversity would be more fitting in that location.

Posted on: 2018/5/1 17:06
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
Talk about an overly simplistic assessment of what happened at 5Pointz


How so? From your article:

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When word got out that Wolkoff was planning to replace the warehouse with high-rise condos, the artists mounted a public campaign to save the building, and Cohen, the site’s de facto leader, petitioned the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission for landmark status.


He let them paint, and they tried to take away his property rights. The property was not notable as a landmark except for the graffiti. Reminds me of the property owners who let people create community gardens on their vacant lots, and then when the time was ripe to develop there, they had to fight those groups. File under "no good deeds go unpunished".

Posted on: 2018/5/1 16:50
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