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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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IN my column a week ago, ?When Whites Just Don?t Get It,? I took aim at what I called ?smug white delusion? about race relations in America, and readers promptly fired back at what they perceived as a smugly deluded columnist.

Readers grudgingly accepted the grim statistics I cited ? such as the wealth disparity between blacks and whites in America today exceeding what it was in South Africa during apartheid ? but many readers put the blame on African-Americans themselves.

?Probably has something to do with their unwillingness to work,? Nils tweeted.

Nancy protested on my Facebook page: ?We can?t fix their problems. It?s up to every black individual to stop the cycle of fatherless homes, stop the cycle of generations on welfare.?

There was a deluge of such comments, some toxic, but let me try to address three principal arguments that I think prop up white delusion.

First, if blacks are poor or in prison, it?s all their fault. ?Blacks don?t get it,? Bruce tweeted. ?Choosing to be cool vs. getting good grades is a bad choice. We all start from 0.?

Huh? Does anybody really think that we all take off from the same starting line?

Slavery and post-slavery oppression left a legacy of broken families, poverty, racism, hopelessness and internalized self-doubt. Some responded to discrimination and lack of opportunity by behaving in self-destructive ways.

One study found that African-American children on welfare heard only 29 percent as many words in their first few years as children of professional parents. Those kids never catch up, partly because they?re more likely to attend broken schools. Sure, some make bad choices, but they?ve often been on a trajectory toward failure from the time they were babies.

These are whirlpools that are difficult to escape, especially when society is suspicious and unsympathetic. Japan has a stigmatized minority group, the burakumin, whose members once held jobs considered unclean. But although this is an occupational minority rather than a racial one, it spawned an underclass that was tormented by crime, educational failure, and substance abuse similar to that of the American underclass.

So instead of pointing fingers, let?s adopt some of the programs that I?ve cited with robust evidence showing that they bridge the chasm.

But look at Asians, Mark protests on my Google Plus page: Vietnamese arrived in poverty ? and are now school valedictorians. Why can?t blacks be like that?

There are plenty of black valedictorians. But bravo to Asians and other immigrant groups for thriving in America with a strong cultural emphasis on education, diligence and delay of self-gratification. We should support programs with a good record of inculcating such values in disadvantaged children. But we also need to understand that many young people of color see no hope of getting ahead, and that despair can be self-fulfilling.

A successful person can say: ?I worked hard in school. I got a job. The system worked.? Good for you. But you probably also owe your success to parents who read to you, to decent schools, to social expectations that you would end up in college rather than prison. So count your blessings for winning the lottery of birth ? and think about mentoring a kid who didn?t.


Look, the basic reason young black men are regarded with suspicion is that they?re disproportionately criminals. The root problem isn?t racism. It?s criminality.


rajn 30 minutes ago
Indians, Chinese and other Asians who come to US and are successful have mostly unrepressed family background with well-off middle class...
Baseball Fan 32 minutes ago
Looking at my home country from afar, I get the following impression of the debate on racism. In the end it is all about money, but this is...
SJ 32 minutes ago
I think that slowly, but surely, this "issue"---however you want to describe it, and classify it, is slowly but surely becoming one less...
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It?s true that blacks accounted for 55 percent of robbery arrests in 2012, according to F.B.I. statistics. But, by my calculations, it?s also true that 99.9 percent of blacks were not arrested and charged with robbery in 2012, yet they are still tarred by this pernicious stereotype.

Criminality is real. So is inequity. So is stereotyping.

The United States Sentencing Commission concluded that black men get sentences one-fifth longer than white men for committing the same crimes. In Louisiana, a study found that a person is 97 percent more likely to be sentenced to death for murdering a white person than a black person.

Mass incarceration means that the United States imprisons a higher proportion of its black population than apartheid South Africa did, further breaking up families. And careful studies find that employers are less likely to respond to a job inquiry and r?sum? when a typically black name is on it.


Society creates opportunity and resiliency for middle-class white boys who make mistakes; it is unforgiving of low-income black boys.

Of course, we need to promote personal responsibility. But there is plenty of fault to go around, and too many whites are obsessed with cultivating personal responsibility in the black community while refusing to accept any responsibility themselves for a system that manifestly does not provide equal opportunity.

Yes, young black men need to take personal responsibility. And so does white America.

NYT

Posted on: 2014/9/7 15:24
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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I believe the posters who are obsessing over black culture and all that is wrong with it are really obsessive over black d*ck and crave it. Come out of the closet. Everyone's got the gaydar on you already. (It will only hurt a little!) ;)

Posted on: 2014/9/7 15:04
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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For someone so obsessed with facts, Monroe writes a lot of fiction.

Posted on: 2014/9/7 14:50
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cr ... eb-92fe-87fcee622c29.html
...


From the 'eyewitness' in the story you linked, Brown was talking about having Jesus Christ on the wall in his house, then minutes later he was robbing a store and violently assaulting a clerk? Was Brown bi-polar? We know he had drugs in his system as well from the autopsies that were performed-all three of them.

...



So your theory is that he was bipolar? It's ok to execute the mentally ill?

Here's my interpretation. Most devout Christians have a picture of Jesus Christ in their home - virtually every Catholic does. Reading the interchange between Brown and the worker I took it to mean:

1. The worker hit a tree root and cursed - something like "Jesus f**king Christ".
2. Brown stopped to admonish the worker. The bad vibes Brown was getting, was from the worker breaking commandment number 3 - taking the Lord's name in vain.
3. Brown was telling the worker that Jesus would help the worker through those bad vibes so long as the worker didn't get angry while working.
4. ?That the Lord Jesus Christ would help me through that as long as I didn?t get all angry at what I was doing.? - the worker was talking about himself - and not directly quoting Brown.

Brown was likely professing his faith as a good Christian, and not bipolar. As I said...learn to read, comprehend, and separate your vile speculation from "fact".


Did I say that? I just asked the question, given that one moment he's telling a random person that Jesus would be there to help him, and the shortly after he's robbing a store and violently assaulting another human being-both being very unChristian acts. Sounds like someone on drugs or schizophrenic, which raises questions about his state of mind during the sad event that led to his death.

It doesn't seem disturbing to you he's talking about Jesus Christ moments before committing those crimes at the convenience store? Go from 'gentle giant' talking about Christ with one stranger to vicious monster assaulting another stranger within a short time?

Posted on: 2014/9/7 11:53
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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AlexC wrote:
Let's settle this shit once and for all. This is the root of the problem: Institutionalized Racism...


You nailed it.

Posted on: 2014/9/7 7:18
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Monroe wrote:
...
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cr ... eb-92fe-87fcee622c29.html
...


From the 'eyewitness' in the story you linked, Brown was talking about having Jesus Christ on the wall in his house, then minutes later he was robbing a store and violently assaulting a clerk? Was Brown bi-polar? We know he had drugs in his system as well from the autopsies that were performed-all three of them.

...



So your theory is that he was bipolar? It's ok to execute the mentally ill?

Here's my interpretation. Most devout Christians have a picture of Jesus Christ in their home - virtually every Catholic does. Reading the interchange between Brown and the worker I took it to mean:

1. The worker hit a tree root and cursed - something like "Jesus f**king Christ".
2. Brown stopped to admonish the worker. The bad vibes Brown was getting, was from the worker breaking commandment number 3 - taking the Lord's name in vain.
3. Brown was telling the worker that Jesus would help the worker through those bad vibes so long as the worker didn't get angry while working.
4. ?That the Lord Jesus Christ would help me through that as long as I didn?t get all angry at what I was doing.? - the worker was talking about himself - and not directly quoting Brown.

Brown was likely professing his faith as a good Christian, and not bipolar. As I said...learn to read, comprehend, and separate your vile speculation from "fact".

Posted on: 2014/9/7 7:06
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sure he had a clean record, and let's give him the benefit of the doubt that he's not prejudiced. but would it be a stretch to wonder what kind of mindset those cops have operating in that kind of racist environment?

I mean you have to admit that there is some kind of racist attitude running in that department and in that institution.

surely you can't be that stupid to think otherwise and pretend it does not exist

Posted on: 2014/9/7 2:44
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Let's settle this shit once and for all. This is the root of the problem: Institutionalized Racism. History of Ferguson Police Dept - At least 5 Ferguson officers apart from Brown shooter have been named in lawsuits

Federal investigators are focused on one Ferguson, Mo., police officer who fatally shot an unarmed black teenager, but at least five other police officers and one former officer in the town?s 53-member department have been named in civil rights lawsuits alleging the use of excessive force.

In four federal lawsuits, including one that is on appeal, and more than a half-dozen investigations over the past decade, colleagues of Darren Wilson?s have separately contested a variety of allegations, including killing a mentally ill man with a Taser, pistol-whipping a child, choking and hog-tying a child and beating a man who was later charged with destroying city property because his blood spilled on officers? clothes.

One officer has faced three internal affairs probes and two lawsuits over claims he violated civil rights and used excessive force while working at a previous police department in the mid-2000s. That department demoted him after finding credible evidence to support one of the complaints, and he subsequently was hired by the Ferguson force.

Police officials from outside Ferguson and plaintiffs? lawyers say the nature of such cases suggests there is a systemic problem within the Ferguson police force. Department of Justice officials said they are considering a broader probe into whether there is a pattern of using excessive force that routinely violates people?s civil rights.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politic ... b-997ae96fad33_story.html


Among all that, Officer Wilson had a totally clean record and indeed had received a commendation for good policing.

Or is he guilty of thinking 'Gee, I'll wake up today, go out mid day in broad daylight with dozens of witnesses, and decide to shoot an unarmed man' so I can brag to my Klan friends this weekend?

Posted on: 2014/9/7 2:37
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Three troubling things exposed by the Ferguson police shooting of Michael Brown.

"Profiting from Poverty"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/p ... hooting-of-michael-brown/

1.) Criminalizing and profiting from the poor through fees and fines

NPR reported last week on a study by the St. Louis-based legal group ArchCity Defenders that produced a stunning statistic.

In 2013, the municipal court in Ferguson ? a city of 21,135 people ? issued 32,975 arrest warrants for nonviolent offenses, mostly driving violations.
?Folks have the impression that this is a form of low-level harassment that isn?t about public safety,? Thomas Harvey, the founder of the group, told NPR. ?It?s about money.? Big money. The report notes that of Ferguson?s $20 million in revenue, the $2.6 million in court fines and fees was the second-largest source of income. It also pointed out that the Ferguson Municipal Court disposed of ?about 3 warrants and 1.5 cases per household? last year.

According to ArchCity Defenders, in the nearby St. Louis County town of Florissant, one warrant was issued for every six residents ?in the past year? by the municipal court. The court collected ?about a quarter of [its] total revenue of $3,000,000? from warrants. If the number leaves you cold, read my colleague Radley Balko?s account of what happened in Florissant on March 20 to Nicole Bolden after she got into a car accident.

AdvertisementThe officer found that Bolden had four arrest warrants in three separate jurisdictions: the towns of Florissant and Hazelwood in St. Louis County and the town of Foristell in St. Charles County. All of the warrants were for failure to appear in court for traffic violations. Bolden hadn?t appeared in court because she didn?t have the money. A couple of those fines were for speeding, one was for failure to wear her seatbelt and most of the rest were for what defense attorneys in the St. Louis area have come to call ?poverty violations? ? driving with a suspended license, expired plates, expired registration and a failure to provide proof of insurance.
This is part of the harrowing opening vignette in Balko?s extensive and excellent look at how municipalities in St. Louis County, Mo., profit from poverty. ?If you were tasked with designing a regional system of government guaranteed to produce racial conflict, anger, and resentment,? he writes, ?you?d be hard pressed to do better than St. Louis County.?


Posted on: 2014/9/7 2:26
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Let's settle this shit once and for all. This is the root of the problem: Institutionalized Racism. History of Ferguson Police Dept - At least 5 Ferguson officers apart from Brown shooter have been named in lawsuits

Federal investigators are focused on one Ferguson, Mo., police officer who fatally shot an unarmed black teenager, but at least five other police officers and one former officer in the town?s 53-member department have been named in civil rights lawsuits alleging the use of excessive force.

In four federal lawsuits, including one that is on appeal, and more than a half-dozen investigations over the past decade, colleagues of Darren Wilson?s have separately contested a variety of allegations, including killing a mentally ill man with a Taser, pistol-whipping a child, choking and hog-tying a child and beating a man who was later charged with destroying city property because his blood spilled on officers? clothes.

One officer has faced three internal affairs probes and two lawsuits over claims he violated civil rights and used excessive force while working at a previous police department in the mid-2000s. That department demoted him after finding credible evidence to support one of the complaints, and he subsequently was hired by the Ferguson force.

Police officials from outside Ferguson and plaintiffs? lawyers say the nature of such cases suggests there is a systemic problem within the Ferguson police force. Department of Justice officials said they are considering a broader probe into whether there is a pattern of using excessive force that routinely violates people?s civil rights.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politic ... b-997ae96fad33_story.html

Posted on: 2014/9/7 2:20
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Monroe wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...
and it's true Johnson is a liar (Brown was not shot in the back as he claimed) I'd save your toothless invective for another time.

The facts will set you free.


Learn to read, comprehend, and separate your vile speculation from "fact".

Have another read:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cr ... eb-92fe-87fcee622c29.html

The other witnesses lying as well? Why not admit you're not omniscient? You're not judge, jury and executioner in this case. Let the feds and the grand jury do their job without your scumbaggery and hate-mongering.


From the 'eyewitness' in the story you linked, Brown was talking about having Jesus Christ on the wall in his house, then minutes later he was robbing a store and violently assaulting a clerk? Was Brown bi-polar? We know he had drugs in his system as well from the autopsies that were performed-all three of them.

And again, Johnson was found to be a liar, as he stated Brown was shot in the back, which is untrue.

So let the facts be the facts, and the 'eyewitnesses' be fully vetted for their veracity which will be tested when the ballistics tell the truth about how far Brown was from the officer when he was shot, etc.



Also remember the essential difference between reasonable people and the Ferguson mob. Reasonable people say let the facts be the facts, and if they prove this is a bad shooting, throw the book at the officer.

A mob has a predetermined outcome in mind (string him up), and will refuse to consider any facts that get in the way.

Posted on: 2014/9/7 0:53
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...
and it's true Johnson is a liar (Brown was not shot in the back as he claimed) I'd save your toothless invective for another time.

The facts will set you free.


Learn to read, comprehend, and separate your vile speculation from "fact".

Have another read:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cr ... eb-92fe-87fcee622c29.html

The other witnesses lying as well? Why not admit you're not omniscient? You're not judge, jury and executioner in this case. Let the feds and the grand jury do their job without your scumbaggery and hate-mongering.


From the 'eyewitness' in the story you linked, Brown was talking about having Jesus Christ on the wall in his house, then minutes later he was robbing a store and violently assaulting a clerk? Was Brown bi-polar? We know he had drugs in his system as well from the autopsies that were performed-all three of them.

And again, Johnson was found to be a liar, as he stated Brown was shot in the back, which is untrue.

So let the facts be the facts, and the 'eyewitnesses' be fully vetted for their veracity which will be tested when the ballistics tell the truth about how far Brown was from the officer when he was shot, etc.


Posted on: 2014/9/7 0:36
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Monroe wrote:
...
and it's true Johnson is a liar (Brown was not shot in the back as he claimed) I'd save your toothless invective for another time.

The facts will set you free.


Learn to read, comprehend, and separate your vile speculation from "fact".

Have another read:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cr ... eb-92fe-87fcee622c29.html

The other witnesses lying as well? Why not admit you're not omniscient? You're not judge, jury and executioner in this case. Let the feds and the grand jury do their job without your scumbaggery and hate-mongering.

Posted on: 2014/9/7 0:07
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JCMan8, don't you see a pattern? Can't support your argument, get embarrassed by someone with an opposing view who can-so just call someone vile names in response.
...



..."opposing view"..."vile names". Just giving you a taste of your own medicine in your VILIFICATION of absolutely EVERYONE supporting a fair hearing and justice for Michael Brown. Let me see if I got this right:

- Michael Brown - a thug who deserved what he got.
- Johnson and Mitchell - liars who can't be trusted
- Sharpton and Crump - "race baiters" that are in it from themselves and to form a lynch mob for Officer Wilson.
- Protesters/rioters - opportunists simply out to loot local businesses.
- Blacks - a "defective culture".

Have I got that right?

Embarrassed? No . I'm totally DISGUSTED by your ignorance and hate.

On the subject of evidence, how about this...

Quote:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cr ... eb-92fe-87fcee622c29.html

...
About a half-hour later, the worker heard a gunshot. Then he saw Brown running away from a police car. Wilson trailed about 10 to 15 feet behind, gun in hand. About 90 feet away from the car, the worker said, Wilson fired another shot at Brown, whose back was turned.

The worker said Brown stumbled and then stopped, put his hands up, turned around and said, ?OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.? He said he told investigators from the St. Louis County police and the FBI that because of the stumble, it seemed to him that Brown had been wounded.

A private autopsy showed that all but one of his gunshot wounds came while Brown was facing Wilson. Shawn L. Parcells, who participated in the autopsy, said one of the wounds to the arm could have occurred when Brown was facing away from Wilson. ?It?s inconclusive,? he said. St. Louis County and federal autopsy results have not been released.

Wilson, gun drawn, also stopped about 10 feet in front of Brown, the worker said.

Then Brown moved, the worker said. ?He?s kind of walking back toward the cop.? He said Brown?s hands were still up.

Wilson began backing up as he fired, the worker said.

After the third shot, Brown?s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched ? about 50 feet away ? if Brown?s motion toward Wilson after the shots was ?a stumble to the ground? or ?OK, I?m going to get you, you?re already shooting me.?

Among people who have spoken to the media, there hasn?t been a clear consensus on what happened after Brown turned around.

Dorian Johnson ? a friend of Brown?s who said he was walking with him when Wilson approached them on Canfield and told them to get off the street ? told CNN that Brown was ?beginning to tell the officer he was unarmed and to tell him to stop shooting.? Johnson, 22, told KTVI Brown was starting to get down when he was shot.

Johnson also told MSNBC that Wilson began shooting before Brown ?could get his last words out.?

Another witness who lives nearby, Michael T. Brady, 32, told CNN that Brown turned with his hands under his stomach. He also said Brown took one or two steps toward Wilson as he was going down when Wilson fired three or four more times.

Piaget Crenshaw, who lives in the Canfield apartments, and Tiffany Mitchell, her boss, were in different places in the complex. Crenshaw told CNN that Brown didn?t move toward Wilson. In several statements to reporters, neither has mentioned Brown moving toward Wilson.

The New York Times quoted James McKnight as saying Brown stumbled toward Wilson, who was 6 to 7 feet away.

Phillip Walker, 40, another Canfield Green resident, told the Post-Dispatch on Tuesday that Brown was walking at a steady pace toward Wilson, with his hands up. ?Not quickly,? Walker said. ?He did not rush the officer.? Walker, who is distantly related to a Post-Dispatch reporter not involved in this report, said the last shot, into the top of Brown?s head, was from about 4 feet away.

?It wasn?t justified because he didn?t pose no threat to the officer. I don?t understand why he didn?t Tase him if he deemed him to be hostile. He didn?t have no weapon on him. I was confused on why he was shooting his rounds off like that into this individual,? Walker said.

The co-worker in the KTVI interview said he ?starting hearing pops and when I look over ? I seen somebody staggering and running. And when he finally caught himself he threw his hands up and started screaming, ?OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.??

He said the officer ?didn?t say, ?Get on the ground.? He didn?t say anything. At first his gun was down and then he ? got about 8 to 10 feet away from him ? I heard six, seven shots ? it seemed like seven. Then he put his gun down. That?s when Michael stumbled forward. I?d say about 25 feet or so and then fell right on his face.?

No witness has ever publicly claimed that Brown charged at Wilson. The worker interviewed by the Post-Dispatch disputed claims by Wilson?s defenders that Brown was running full speed at the officer.

?I don?t know if he was going after him or if he was falling down to die,? he said. ?It wasn?t a bull rush.?
...


That sound familiar. Like something I posted earlier???

You guys need to get a room. Form a club. You can play whack-a-mole, jerk-in-harmony - any card game involving clubs-only. And perhaps diamonds. No hearts. No spades. I've run out of adjectives for your vile, evil, scumbaggery.



Since I haven't called Brown a thug, or said that blacks have a defective culture, and it's proven Sharpton is a race baiter (Tawana Brawley, 'white interlopers in Harlem', tax deadbeat), and it's true Johnson is a liar (Brown was not shot in the back as he claimed) I'd save your toothless invective for another time.

The facts will set you free.

Posted on: 2014/9/6 23:42
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JCMan8, don't you see a pattern? Can't support your argument, get embarrassed by someone with an opposing view who can-so just call someone vile names in response.
...



..."opposing view"..."vile names". Just giving you a taste of your own medicine in your VILIFICATION of absolutely EVERYONE supporting a fair hearing and justice for Michael Brown. Let me see if I got this right:

- Michael Brown - a thug who deserved what he got.
- Johnson and Mitchell - liars who can't be trusted
- Sharpton and Crump - "race baiters" that are in it from themselves and to form a lynch mob for Officer Wilson.
- Protesters/rioters - opportunists simply out to loot local businesses.
- Blacks - a "defective culture".

Have I got that right?

Embarrassed? No . I'm totally DISGUSTED by your ignorance and hate.

On the subject of evidence, how about this...

Quote:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cr ... eb-92fe-87fcee622c29.html

...
About a half-hour later, the worker heard a gunshot. Then he saw Brown running away from a police car. Wilson trailed about 10 to 15 feet behind, gun in hand. About 90 feet away from the car, the worker said, Wilson fired another shot at Brown, whose back was turned.

The worker said Brown stumbled and then stopped, put his hands up, turned around and said, ?OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.? He said he told investigators from the St. Louis County police and the FBI that because of the stumble, it seemed to him that Brown had been wounded.

A private autopsy showed that all but one of his gunshot wounds came while Brown was facing Wilson. Shawn L. Parcells, who participated in the autopsy, said one of the wounds to the arm could have occurred when Brown was facing away from Wilson. ?It?s inconclusive,? he said. St. Louis County and federal autopsy results have not been released.

Wilson, gun drawn, also stopped about 10 feet in front of Brown, the worker said.

Then Brown moved, the worker said. ?He?s kind of walking back toward the cop.? He said Brown?s hands were still up.

Wilson began backing up as he fired, the worker said.

After the third shot, Brown?s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched ? about 50 feet away ? if Brown?s motion toward Wilson after the shots was ?a stumble to the ground? or ?OK, I?m going to get you, you?re already shooting me.?

Among people who have spoken to the media, there hasn?t been a clear consensus on what happened after Brown turned around.

Dorian Johnson ? a friend of Brown?s who said he was walking with him when Wilson approached them on Canfield and told them to get off the street ? told CNN that Brown was ?beginning to tell the officer he was unarmed and to tell him to stop shooting.? Johnson, 22, told KTVI Brown was starting to get down when he was shot.

Johnson also told MSNBC that Wilson began shooting before Brown ?could get his last words out.?

Another witness who lives nearby, Michael T. Brady, 32, told CNN that Brown turned with his hands under his stomach. He also said Brown took one or two steps toward Wilson as he was going down when Wilson fired three or four more times.

Piaget Crenshaw, who lives in the Canfield apartments, and Tiffany Mitchell, her boss, were in different places in the complex. Crenshaw told CNN that Brown didn?t move toward Wilson. In several statements to reporters, neither has mentioned Brown moving toward Wilson.

The New York Times quoted James McKnight as saying Brown stumbled toward Wilson, who was 6 to 7 feet away.

Phillip Walker, 40, another Canfield Green resident, told the Post-Dispatch on Tuesday that Brown was walking at a steady pace toward Wilson, with his hands up. ?Not quickly,? Walker said. ?He did not rush the officer.? Walker, who is distantly related to a Post-Dispatch reporter not involved in this report, said the last shot, into the top of Brown?s head, was from about 4 feet away.

?It wasn?t justified because he didn?t pose no threat to the officer. I don?t understand why he didn?t Tase him if he deemed him to be hostile. He didn?t have no weapon on him. I was confused on why he was shooting his rounds off like that into this individual,? Walker said.

The co-worker in the KTVI interview said he ?starting hearing pops and when I look over ? I seen somebody staggering and running. And when he finally caught himself he threw his hands up and started screaming, ?OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.??

He said the officer ?didn?t say, ?Get on the ground.? He didn?t say anything. At first his gun was down and then he ? got about 8 to 10 feet away from him ? I heard six, seven shots ? it seemed like seven. Then he put his gun down. That?s when Michael stumbled forward. I?d say about 25 feet or so and then fell right on his face.?

No witness has ever publicly claimed that Brown charged at Wilson. The worker interviewed by the Post-Dispatch disputed claims by Wilson?s defenders that Brown was running full speed at the officer.

?I don?t know if he was going after him or if he was falling down to die,? he said. ?It wasn?t a bull rush.?
...


That sound familiar. Like something I posted earlier???

You guys need to get a room. Form a club. You can play whack-a-mole, jerk-in-harmony - any card game involving clubs-only. And perhaps diamonds. No hearts. No spades. I've run out of adjectives for your vile, evil, scumbaggery.


Posted on: 2014/9/6 22:39
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...
I'm advocating a fair process, not one that drives an outcome with the need for a sacrificial lamb to satisfy the race baiters like Al 'Tawana Brawley' Sharpton and others.

You could call it the Monroe Doctrine, but the name has been used before.


So it's a fair process, so long as we accept from the outset that Officer Wilson is simply "sacrificial lamb"? No case for him to answer because "Monroe Justice" has already been served? Monroe has examined the facts of the case and found Wilson innocent of all charges? Sharpton should be gagged? That fair?

Sounds like you want to rip up the constitution, deny free speech and due process.




Sharpton should be ignored, because he's a hate mongering, race baiting bigot.

His relentless accusations claiming Tawana Brawley was raped by several white men, smeared with dog shit, and left in a garbage bag will forever be tied with his brand of racial bias.

At that's only one of his several high profile racist actions.


Monroe - you are quite simply offensive, racist and evil. Sharpton represents his constituency. You simply represent the evil racist prick that you are.



Regardless of who's being evil or racist, Al Sharpton is a joke. How he is considered a "Reverend" I will never understand, given that he dropped out of college after two years and has no formal religious training. Another Pentecostal minister simply declared Al a Pentecostal minister when he was 9 or 10. Then he decided he was baptist, and had another minister declare him a Baptist minister in 1994. Never set foot inside a seminary.

Then let's talk about how Sharpton and his businesses at one point owed $1.5 million in unpaid taxes and penalties. Sharpton owed $931,000 in federal income tax and $366,000 to New York, and his for-profit company, Rev. Al Communications, owed another $176,000 to the state of New York.

There are other things about him, but why bother? Those two facts alone clearly indicate he is not someone who can be taken seriously.

Posted on: 2014/9/6 20:48
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JCMan8, don't you see a pattern? Can't support your argument, get embarrassed by someone with an opposing view who can-so just call someone vile names in response.

Or don't like the conversation, throw up a silly poster image you found on the Internet that you didn't make yourself.

The distraction may work for the intellectual lightweights though. I just consider the source and chuckle it off.


Yes I do see the pattern. Although I'm not even seeing much of an "argument" from some people. Just flat out lies and fabrications, followed by name calling.

Posted on: 2014/9/6 18:56
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If his size has no relevance then why do you constantly bring it up as one of your oft touted facts?




Size is 100% relevant in this context. Officer Wilson said that Mike Brown was fighting him from the very beginning.

If Mike Brown was 5'2" 120 pounds and unarmed, obviously the use of deadly force in self defense against such a man would seem questionable.

But the fact is that "unarmed" Mike Brown was 6'4" 300 pounds, so he was armed with tremendous punching potential. And had nonchalantly robbed a convenience store and assaulted the clerk 10 minutes before his encounter with the police.

Along with many other facts previously posted.

We aren't looking at facts from 10 years ago, or even 10 months ago, but 10 minutes before the shooting.

More facts will come out. All of this is just common sense. But since the certain people can't handle the utter collapse of the initial hateful, utterly incorrect, media-fueled narrative, they try to take the moral high ground. Of course, you fail spectacularly because you have no high ground to speak of, nor the intellectual capabilities to engage. So instead you demonize and impotently throw around nasty words, all to no avail. Keep clattering away!

Posted on: 2014/9/6 18:39

Edited by JCMan8 on 2014/9/6 19:01:20
Edited by JCMan8 on 2014/9/6 19:02:41
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I'm sure it would take you a long time, I imagine a lot of things take you a long time; tying your shoes, using the bathroom, reading a headline etc.

If his size has no relevance then why do you constantly bring it up as one of your oft touted facts?

Also, what happened to the shattered eye socket fact you harped on about in the first half of this thread?




Please show me where I said Wilson was justified in shooting Brown because of his size, because all the time you spent digging up my quotes was your time wasted, because I've never said that.

The relevance of me stating his size is that if the facts support that Brown was charging Wilson, a 6'4" 300 pound man is a much bigger threat than, say, a 5'6" 140 pound man, and could change the response an officer would need to stop it.

As for the eye socket, we haven't yet had the hospital records released as to the extent of the injuries Wilson may have received.

The facts we know remain as I noted earlier.

And remember, the childlike, playground insults amuse me, maybe even more so than you spending time digging up quotes that support my argument and invalidate your own.

Hoist with your own petard, if you will.

Posted on: 2014/9/6 17:14
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I'm sure it would take you a long time, I imagine a lot of things take you a long time; tying your shoes, using the bathroom, reading a headline etc.

If his size has no relevance then why do you constantly bring it up as one of your oft touted facts?

Also, what happened to the shattered eye socket fact you harped on about in the first half of this thread?



Posted on: 2014/9/6 17:03
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@old skool, I admire your quoting skills!

And amused that you spent so much time doing it, given that not one of them says that the officer was justified in shooting Brown because he was a large (or giant, as his own family says) black man.


Posted on: 2014/9/6 16:47
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Old-Skool-JC wrote:
Funny that you should bring up intellectual lightweights when your main argument appears to be that the shooting was justified because Mike Brown was a big black man.


At no point have I said that, and several times I've said that if the shooting was unjustified that we should throw the book at Officer Wilson.


Quote:

Monroe wrote:


f) Brown outweighed the officer by over a hundred pounds





Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...And Sharpton's quote should read 'can we not protect a 6'4", 300 pound man walking down the street....


Quote:

Monroe wrote:

The 300 pound, 6'4" man charged him...


Quote:

Monroe wrote:
So the officer was likely to kill a 300lb, 6'4" man because his mother...


Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...has an eyewitness saying the 6'4", 300lb man was charging the police...



Ad Nauseum.

Posted on: 2014/9/6 14:11
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Funny that you should bring up intellectual lightweights when your main argument appears to be that the shooting was justified because Mike Brown was a big black man.


At no point have I said that, and several times I've said that if the shooting was unjustified that we should throw the book at Officer Wilson.

Does hate cloud your eyesight when reading my posts? All I've done is repeat the facts that we do know

a) Brown had just robbed and committed assault at a store minutes before the shooting-admitted by his family and the family attorney

b) Forensic information provided by three separate autopsies proved that Brown was not, as claimed by 'eyewitnesses', shot in the back

c) The officer had zero civilian complaints against him, and in fact had been commended for his police work

d) Real time audio by an eyewitness backs the police claim Brown was charging the police cruiser when he was shot

e) The meme that Brown was a 'gentle giant', as proffered by his family, was disproven by a)

f) Brown outweighed the officer by over a hundred pounds

Now we will have to wait to see other forensics, police radio information, background information on both Brown and Wilson (to give us insight into state of mind and character-if someone would find a picture of Wilson in a white cape and pointy hat it would bolster Brown's advocates, no?) before we can further figure out what happened.

But a) through f) is clear and factual.


Posted on: 2014/9/6 12:36
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Funny that you should bring up intellectual lightweights when your main argument appears to be that the shooting was justified because Mike Brown was a big black man.

Posted on: 2014/9/6 11:52
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JCMan8, don't you see a pattern? Can't support your argument, get embarrassed by someone with an opposing view who can-so just call someone vile names in response.

Or don't like the conversation, throw up a silly poster image you found on the Internet that you didn't make yourself.

The distraction may work for the intellectual lightweights though. I just consider the source and chuckle it off.

Posted on: 2014/9/6 11:35
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...
I'm advocating a fair process, not one that drives an outcome with the need for a sacrificial lamb to satisfy the race baiters like Al 'Tawana Brawley' Sharpton and others.

You could call it the Monroe Doctrine, but the name has been used before.


So it's a fair process, so long as we accept from the outset that Officer Wilson is simply "sacrificial lamb"? No-one else's life nor word matters - because they are all black thugs and liars. No case for Officer Wilson to answer because "Monroe Justice" has already been served? Brown is dead because he was a thug, his friends were all liars, and Monroe has already decided the killing was justified. Monroe has examined the facts of the case and found Wilson innocent of all charges? Monroe thinks Sharpton should be gagged because all he is doing is inciting an opportunistic mob from within a "defective culture"?

Do you have any conception of how deeply offensive and racist your narrative sounds? You want to rip up the constitution, deny free speech, due process and return to 19th century injustice?

I stand by my assertion that you and others on this thread are hatemongers. And I find it incredulous that you can't look into you hearts and see the pure evil inside your warped beliefs.


Are you aware that you are making up nearly everything in your post? Do you know what a scarecrow is? Because you are quite proficient at propping up lots of scarecrows and tearing them down.


So your scarecrows are more valid than mine because what? They're dressed differently? Any more insidious "raggety-man" analogies? Your brain simply wired that way?


You're off your meds again. I suggest you reread many of these posts to see that no one has said what you think they did in your fantasy world. Actually it's the opposite.

And you are the only one who promotes lynch mob justice. Many people such as myself want to see a fair process and are not invested in the result. But Sharpton and the mob over in Ferguson will not be satisfied unless the officer gets strung up. No facts can get in the way. Start with the premise that he's guilty and never change.

Posted on: 2014/9/6 3:33

Edited by JCMan8 on 2014/9/6 3:49:39
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JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...
I'm advocating a fair process, not one that drives an outcome with the need for a sacrificial lamb to satisfy the race baiters like Al 'Tawana Brawley' Sharpton and others.

You could call it the Monroe Doctrine, but the name has been used before.


So it's a fair process, so long as we accept from the outset that Officer Wilson is simply "sacrificial lamb"? No-one else's life nor word matters - because they are all black thugs and liars. No case for Officer Wilson to answer because "Monroe Justice" has already been served? Brown is dead because he was a thug, his friends were all liars, and Monroe has already decided the killing was justified. Monroe has examined the facts of the case and found Wilson innocent of all charges? Monroe thinks Sharpton should be gagged because all he is doing is inciting an opportunistic mob from within a "defective culture"?

Do you have any conception of how deeply offensive and racist your narrative sounds? You want to rip up the constitution, deny free speech, due process and return to 19th century injustice?

I stand by my assertion that you and others on this thread are hatemongers. And I find it incredulous that you can't look into you hearts and see the pure evil inside your warped beliefs.


Are you aware that you are making up nearly everything in your post? Do you know what a scarecrow is? Because you are quite proficient at propping up lots of scarecrows and tearing them down.


So your scarecrows are more valid than mine because what? They're dressed differently? Any more insidious "raggety-man" analogies? Your brain simply wired that way?

Posted on: 2014/9/6 3:23
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...
I'm advocating a fair process, not one that drives an outcome with the need for a sacrificial lamb to satisfy the race baiters like Al 'Tawana Brawley' Sharpton and others.

You could call it the Monroe Doctrine, but the name has been used before.


So it's a fair process, so long as we accept from the outset that Officer Wilson is simply "sacrificial lamb"? No-one else's life nor word matters - because they are all black thugs and liars. No case for Officer Wilson to answer because "Monroe Justice" has already been served? Brown is dead because he was a thug, his friends were all liars, and Monroe has already decided the killing was justified. Monroe has examined the facts of the case and found Wilson innocent of all charges? Monroe thinks Sharpton should be gagged because all he is doing is inciting an opportunistic mob from within a "defective culture"?

Do you have any conception of how deeply offensive and racist your narrative sounds? You want to rip up the constitution, deny free speech, due process and return to 19th century injustice?

I stand by my assertion that you and others on this thread are hatemongers. And I find it incredulous that you can't look into you hearts and see the pure evil inside your warped beliefs.


Are you aware that you are making up nearly everything in your post? Do you know what a scarecrow is? Because you are quite proficient at propping up lots of scarecrows and tearing them down.

Posted on: 2014/9/6 2:54
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Monroe wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...
I'm advocating a fair process, not one that drives an outcome with the need for a sacrificial lamb to satisfy the race baiters like Al 'Tawana Brawley' Sharpton and others.

You could call it the Monroe Doctrine, but the name has been used before.


So it's a fair process, so long as we accept from the outset that Officer Wilson is simply "sacrificial lamb"? No case for him to answer because "Monroe Justice" has already been served? Monroe has examined the facts of the case and found Wilson innocent of all charges? Sharpton should be gagged? That fair?

Sounds like you want to rip up the constitution, deny free speech and due process.




Sharpton should be ignored, because he's a hate mongering, race baiting bigot.

His relentless accusations claiming Tawana Brawley was raped by several white men, smeared with dog shit, and left in a garbage bag will forever be tied with his brand of racial bias.

At that's only one of his several high profile racist actions.


Monroe - you are quite simply offensive, racist and evil. Sharpton represents his constituency. You simply represent the evil racist prick that you are.


Posted on: 2014/9/6 1:45
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
...
I'm advocating a fair process, not one that drives an outcome with the need for a sacrificial lamb to satisfy the race baiters like Al 'Tawana Brawley' Sharpton and others.

You could call it the Monroe Doctrine, but the name has been used before.


So it's a fair process, so long as we accept from the outset that Officer Wilson is simply "sacrificial lamb"? No case for him to answer because "Monroe Justice" has already been served? Monroe has examined the facts of the case and found Wilson innocent of all charges? Sharpton should be gagged? That fair?

Sounds like you want to rip up the constitution, deny free speech and due process.




Sharpton should be ignored, because he's a hate mongering, race baiting bigot.

His relentless accusations claiming Tawana Brawley was raped by several white men, smeared with dog shit, and left in a garbage bag will forever be tied with his brand of racial bias.

At that's only one of his several high profile racist actions.

Posted on: 2014/9/6 1:30
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