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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Just throw on two more cars now and make sure the Grove Street people don't get on the front and back car? Why is that so difficult? The LIRR has been doing this for years.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 19:01
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Voyeur wrote:
The proposals give a vague sense that the existing retail will be replaced:

Replacement of one story stand-alone retail structures with multi-use, multi- story structures situated on new City Blocks with ground floor retail and new planned public thoroughfares, public parks, and plaza spaces.

I would say that replacement retail is essential given that getting rid of BJ's and ShopRite would leave only A&P, Key Food and PathMark as the downtown supermarket options.

And even if the mythical Whole Foods ever gets built, are they going to accept the EBT cards that a large proportion of the ShopRite customer base relies on?

As for the PATH, none of these developers give a damn about the already chronic rush-hour overcrowding situation. And I think City Hall has already conceded that nothing can be done - or will be done by the Port Authority - to increase PATH capacity beyond signal upgrades to allow trains to run directly behind one another.

I'll wager that when it comes to a vote the city council will approve this development with a shrug of the shoulders, lamenting that it will dramatically compound existing congestion on the PATH, but since nothing can be done about that, they'll argue we may as well approve it with a hefty tax-abatement and collect the PILOT funds and let the NYC commuters just muddle through somehow.

That's the inspired municipal leadership we've come to expect in this town, anyway.


It's not just signal upgrades. Current PA plan for 2017-2021 (in the future, unfortunately, but not that far) calls for extending Grove St station to accommodate 10-car trains, which will allow PATH to increase capacity 25% (from 8 cars to 10 cars) on trains from Newark to WTC (as Grove St is the only station on that line that can't handle 10-car trains at the moment). Should be a relatively easy project, also, as all it would involve is demolishing some of the walls along the eastern entrance hallway to the station.

Anyway, the project is mostly far away. There was talk about closing and demolishing the Pep Boys (no loss) within a year or two, and that would be the first site to go under construction, but the rest will last at least 4-5 years or longer.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 18:52
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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I would miss Bed Bath & Beyond. The 20% off coupons rule.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 18:28
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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jcguy05 wrote:
what actual retail shops have been proposed? All i hear is they going to take away all the shopping/supermarket and replace it with 6 more highrise apartments. What retail will we get to replace the ones lost?


Dude I think it's way too early to have any idea as to what retail might occupy those spaces. The development itself is probably at least 5 years away from even breaking ground, if I had to guess.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 18:23
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Voyeur wrote:

I would say that replacement retail is essential given that getting rid of BJ's and ShopRite would leave only A&P, Key Food and PathMark as the downtown supermarket options.

And even if the mythical Whole Foods ever gets built, are they going to accept the EBT cards that a large proportion of the ShopRite customer base relies on?


Obviously, they will attract a different clientele than ShopRite. I never shop at ShopRite but would certainly shop at a local WF. And if the EBT crowd finds that they have nowhere to shop anymore and end up moving out of DTJC? Then I consider that another plus of the proposal.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 18:23
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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what actual retail shops have been proposed? All i hear is they going to take away all the shopping/supermarket and replace it with 6 more highrise apartments. What retail will we get to replace the ones lost?

Posted on: 2014/11/11 17:56
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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This development of Metro Plaza is very important for Jersey City. I'll be interested to see how this pans out, what the timelines are. The plans seem interesting and give a lot of thought to streetscape and pubic space/parks.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 17:40
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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JCishome wrote:
The new signaling system will supposedly increase capacity by 50,000 riders/day. That may sound small considering all the new development, but keep in mind that not everyone uses the PATH, and that ferry and bus options will probably increase as private companies see more opportunity.

And yeah, I know, the PA will probably find a way to mess this up anyway.


I'm skeptical over how much of a difference the additional 50,000 capacity will actually make. According to PATH ridership numbers for the first half of 2014, average weekday ridership is already almost 249,000.

Increasing capacity by a further 20%, even if enacted today, would still not accommodate all the people who are already left on the platform in the morning at the Newport stop when the doors close on the trains headed to 33rd St.

Add to this the 6,000 units already in development and the untold thousands more proposed and I fear that the enhancements are already inadequate to service the current commuting population of JC, let alone the thousands more to come in the next five years.

Also, the PA's 50,000 number does not reflect the uneven distribution of ridership. Adding more frequency of service to virtually empty trains heading from WTC to HOB in the morning may "add capacity" but it is capacity where it is not needed and does nothing to reduce the congestion on the NYC-bound trains heading in from JC. How much of this 50,000 number will have a tangible benefit on the most crowded trains at the busiest times of the day?

It might be more appropriate to think of it as a 20% increase so that for every five persons on a crowded 8.30am train to WTC today, tomorrow there will be a room for a hypothetical sixth person.

Assuming you might get 70 people in a car (35 seated, 35 standing) and multiply that by ten cars on the NWK-WTC line, you are talking about increased capacity for 140 people per train. Spread the capacity out along the line and that is just an additional 28 passengers accommodated per train at NWK, HAR, JSQ, GRV and EPL.

Not a particularly scientific method obviously, and I appreciate all efforts to improve the PATH system, but you begin to see that 50,000 new seats boils down to a not-so impressive number when you quantify it in terms of individual passenger experience during rush hour.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 17:35
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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The new signaling system will supposedly increase capacity by 50,000 riders/day. That may sound small considering all the new development, but keep in mind that not everyone uses the PATH, and that ferry and bus options will probably increase as private companies see more opportunity.

And yeah, I know, the PA will probably find a way to mess this up anyway.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 16:39
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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The proposals give a vague sense that the existing retail will be replaced:

Replacement of one story stand-alone retail structures with multi-use, multi- story structures situated on new City Blocks with ground floor retail and new planned public thoroughfares, public parks, and plaza spaces.

I would say that replacement retail is essential given that getting rid of BJ's and ShopRite would leave only A&P, Key Food and PathMark as the downtown supermarket options.

And even if the mythical Whole Foods ever gets built, are they going to accept the EBT cards that a large proportion of the ShopRite customer base relies on?

As for the PATH, none of these developers give a damn about the already chronic rush-hour overcrowding situation. And I think City Hall has already conceded that nothing can be done - or will be done by the Port Authority - to increase PATH capacity beyond signal upgrades to allow trains to run directly behind one another.

I'll wager that when it comes to a vote the city council will approve this development with a shrug of the shoulders, lamenting that it will dramatically compound existing congestion on the PATH, but since nothing can be done about that, they'll argue we may as well approve it with a hefty tax-abatement and collect the PILOT funds and let the NYC commuters just muddle through somehow.

That's the inspired municipal leadership we've come to expect in this town, anyway.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 16:35
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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JCMan8 wrote:
I think that complex is in desperate need of an update. I'm sure the retail will be better after this project is complete.

HOWEVER, the PATH is already ridiculously overcrowded at most hours of the day. As it stands, an extra 30,000 or people will be using it after the existing new construction is completed. It's doubtful there is enough capacity to handle those developments.

Now they want to add countless additional people into the area? I don't think this should be allowed unless the developers have a concrete plan as to how they will preserve the city's already strained infrastructure and some kind of arrangement is worked out to ease the PATH crowding.

Ease Path crowding? Hahaha, how?? It's got no more room to expand.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 16:11
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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I think that complex is in desperate need of an update. I'm sure the retail will be better after this project is complete.

HOWEVER, the PATH is already ridiculously overcrowded at most hours of the day. As it stands, an extra 30,000 or people will be using it after the existing new construction is completed. It's doubtful there is enough capacity to handle those developments.

Now they want to add countless additional people into the area? I don't think this should be allowed unless the developers have a concrete plan as to how they will preserve the city's already strained infrastructure and some kind of arrangement is worked out to ease the PATH crowding.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 16:00
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High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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There is a meeting tonight to discuss the proposed high-rises that would occupy the whole of Metro Plaza downtown, from Washington to Marin east to west and from Second St to Sixth Street south to north.

Looks like they are proposing six skyscrapers that will require the demolition of Shoprite, BJ's, Bed Bath & Beyond and Pepboys, at least that is how the plans appear.

Info about tonight's meeting here.

Info about the proposed development here.

Some pictures of how it may look when/if finished here.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 15:55
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