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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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nafco wrote:
Is there a site plan of the development anywhere? I like the idea of opening valuable land to the public again and removing parking lots, but this looks kind of like a haphazard Newport-esque spattering of towers without any real street grid integration to whats around it. I may be wrong though.

All we have to do next is bull doze the massive eye sore that is the Mall which completely disects the neighborhoods and allows no walkability around it. Suburban malls do not belong in the middle of valuable water front city lots.


In one of the links earlier in this thread there is a detailed written description of the proposal for Metro Plaza. All the right things are indicated: will be designed to be pedestrian-friendly, incorporates the existing grid, parking structures hidden, plenty of open space - basically the exact opposite of Newport development.

I agree with you that the mall needs to either be demolished or completely reconfigured. Urban malls do exist, but Newport Mall is a suburban mall plopped down in the polar opposite of suburban. Unfortunately, it has become a fixture, and there are probably more people that want it to stay than adamantly want to see it go, like you and I.

I wish there was an easy way to keep all of those retailers, and just incorporate them into street-level retail ... like a CITY.

If you think about it, Broadway in Soho is a f'ing mall. 34th Street is a f'ing mall. It's just on an organic city street, versus a hideous cheesy mall structure. Urban walkable areas don't need malls. Malls were literally designed for areas that don't have a walkable downtown. That's why the concept of malls exists - for non-urban areas.

It would be nice if there was a good vision for the mall. Unfortunately I think it's here to stay :( I started a thread on this, entitled "the future of newport mall", a few years ago if you want to search for it on this forum.

Posted on: 2014/11/12 16:51
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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nafco wrote:
All we have to do next is bull doze the massive eye sore that is the Mall which completely disects the neighborhoods and allows no walkability around it. Suburban malls do not belong in the middle of valuable water front city lots.


nah the mall is great for the area but i agree it's ridiculous that there is no easy way to to get to other side. Lefrak just needs to build a walk way through it so people dont have to zip zap through the park lot to get to hamilton park, and HP residents can enter the mall from their side.

Unfortunately it's against their best interest, as lefrak wants to keep everyone renting in newport, by building the walk way they will lose renters to hp area.

i think this is one of those cases, fulop and the government can really put some pressure on that company. If you want another tax abatement? then build the walkway!

what they need to bulldoze is that skeleton dump called power house!

Posted on: 2014/11/12 15:53
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Is there a site plan of the development anywhere? I like the idea of opening valuable land to the public again and removing parking lots, but this looks kind of like a haphazard Newport-esque spattering of towers without any real street grid integration to whats around it. I may be wrong though.

All we have to do next is bull doze the massive eye sore that is the Mall which completely disects the neighborhoods and allows no walkability around it. Suburban malls do not belong in the middle of valuable water front city lots.

Posted on: 2014/11/12 15:38
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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jcguy05 wrote:
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
The PATH will be a little more packed
The buses will be a little more full
Less available on-street parking
Less spots available for child care
Overcrowded classroom numbers
A little more crowded parks
A little more dog poop
A few more cyclists using the sidewalk
A few more motorist speeding, and running stop signs
A few more members on JClist

and then we argue the pro's and con's of gentrification and the issues associated with high density, high rise inner city developments !


why are you always so negative about progress and development? If you want jersey city to remain a dump like it was 20 years ago, just move to irvington or newark, otherwise deal with it, the steamroller is not stopping for you.
Amen!

Posted on: 2014/11/12 13:42
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
The PATH will be a little more packed
The buses will be a little more full
Less available on-street parking
Less spots available for child care
Overcrowded classroom numbers
A little more crowded parks
A little more dog poop
A few more cyclists using the sidewalk
A few more motorist speeding, and running stop signs
A few more members on JClist

and then we argue the pro's and con's of gentrification and the issues associated with high density, high rise inner city developments !


why are you always so negative about progress and development? If you want jersey city to remain a dump like it was 20 years ago, just move to irvington or newark, otherwise deal with it, the steamroller is not stopping for you.

Posted on: 2014/11/12 9:12
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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so how did the meeting go? i saw the post earlier and planned to attend, but got roped into dinner with friends. standard BS all around i'm assuming?

Posted on: 2014/11/12 4:49
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Bubble_Tea wrote:
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Voyeur wrote:
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
Just another building that puts a strangle hold on property prices / values - Those that have bought in the past 10 years will never gain any rise in property prices as new apartments are being sold for the same amount; but maintaining a profitable margin to build them!


It seems that all of the new high rise construction both downtown and in JSQ is "luxury rental". As discussed elsewhere on this board, developers are choosing (or are restricted through financing terms) to construct rentals rather than condos. We see this from the Maddox and York at Warren to URL and the Majestic II across from City Hall.

If that is and continues to be the case, we might expect the glut of supply to stabilize rental prices downtown, but I would expect the impact on condo prices to be negligible since the supply of units to purchase is remaining static.

In fact, if more renters move here and decide they want to buy, the influx of newcomers might even drive condo prices up as demand increases but available inventory remains unchanged. I might be wrong on that point, but in any event, I can't see the flood of new rental inventory being a depreciative factor on real estate prices in DTJC.


I think that's a great analysis. Another point is that more development projects, restaurants, grocery stores, etc. bring attention to the city and could make it a more desirable place to live. The resulting increases in demand may compensate for or even rise faster than the increase in supply.

I don't know many of the places you all are writing about but I do know that Jersey City really needs more restaurants. There are so few good ones!

Posted on: 2014/11/12 1:27
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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The PATH will be a little more packed
The buses will be a little more full
Less available on-street parking
Less spots available for child care
Overcrowded classroom numbers
A little more crowded parks
A little more dog poop
A few more cyclists using the sidewalk
A few more motorist speeding, and running stop signs
A few more members on JClist

and then we argue the pro's and con's of gentrification and the issues associated with high density, high rise inner city developments !

Posted on: 2014/11/12 0:30
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Voyeur wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Just another building that puts a strangle hold on property prices / values - Those that have bought in the past 10 years will never gain any rise in property prices as new apartments are being sold for the same amount; but maintaining a profitable margin to build them!


It seems that all of the new high rise construction both downtown and in JSQ is "luxury rental". As discussed elsewhere on this board, developers are choosing (or are restricted through financing terms) to construct rentals rather than condos. We see this from the Maddox and York at Warren to URL and the Majestic II across from City Hall.

If that is and continues to be the case, we might expect the glut of supply to stabilize rental prices downtown, but I would expect the impact on condo prices to be negligible since the supply of units to purchase is remaining static.

In fact, if more renters move here and decide they want to buy, the influx of newcomers might even drive condo prices up as demand increases but available inventory remains unchanged. I might be wrong on that point, but in any event, I can't see the flood of new rental inventory being a depreciative factor on real estate prices in DTJC.


This is accurate. In addition with all the new buildings it will bring in more retails making the area even more desirable.

My only hope is they do something with the power house soon, I hate staring at it out my window.

Posted on: 2014/11/12 0:20
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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jmiz wrote:

How do you suppose they add capacity into NYC without also increasing the amount of empty trains out of NYC? Where do you expect those extra capacity trains to go once they reach NYC?

If you increase the frequency of trains inbound, the outbound trains must increase in proportion.

Use your head.


That is the precise point I was trying to get at - albeit clumsily. I'm asking whether the increase in daily capacity of 50,000 journeys is actually only an 25,000 increase in effective capacity given that for each NY-inbound AM journey and each NJ-outbound PM journey there will be a corresponding empty seat on the reverse commute.

Is the PA promising 50,000 additional trips of effective capacity, or simply additional service that COULD accommodate 50,000 daily journeys even though at least half of that increased service will not provide any benefit to PATH passengers on the most crowded trains at the busiest times of day?



Posted on: 2014/11/11 21:58
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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user1111 wrote:
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
Those that have bought in the past 10 years will never gain any rise in property prices as new apartments are being sold for the same amount; but maintaining a profitable margin to build them!


Bingo!


True statements about pricing if you ignore what has happened in the past, what is happening now, and reports about what will happen in the future.

But besides it being based in reality, true statements!


Posted on: 2014/11/11 21:51
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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user1111 wrote:
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
Those that have bought in the past 10 years will never gain any rise in property prices as new apartments are being sold for the same amount; but maintaining a profitable margin to build them!


Bingo!


Hey - Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum: Do either of you ever come up for air long enough to see what is actually going on? Or just stay down in your bunkers, issuing your anti-development, anti-downtown fatwas? I bought in 2007 - height of the market - and based on sales in my building the past six months and square footage extrapolations, I'm up ~ 30%, even after allowing for a sales commission. Give or take around the edges, but I'm up - substantially. Why? Because almost every single unit that has been built, is being built and is approved to be built but has yet to break ground, is a rental.

How is that going to hurt me? Besides - a good growth story, which DTJC currently is (won't last forever, but good visibility over the next several years), can override a simplistic, static supply and demand scenario.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 21:43
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Voyeur wrote:
Also, the PA's 50,000 number does not reflect the uneven distribution of ridership. Adding more frequency of service to virtually empty trains heading from WTC to HOB in the morning may "add capacity" but it is capacity where it is not needed and does nothing to reduce the congestion on the NYC-bound trains heading in from JC. How much of this 50,000 number will have a tangible benefit on the most crowded trains at the busiest times of the day?



How do you suppose they add capacity into NYC without also increasing the amount of empty trains out of NYC? Where do you expect those extra capacity trains to go once they reach NYC?

If you increase the frequency of trains inbound, the outbound trains must increase in proportion.

Use your head.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 21:41
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Voyeur wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Just another building that puts a strangle hold on property prices / values - Those that have bought in the past 10 years will never gain any rise in property prices as new apartments are being sold for the same amount; but maintaining a profitable margin to build them!


It seems that all of the new high rise construction both downtown and in JSQ is "luxury rental". As discussed elsewhere on this board, developers are choosing (or are restricted through financing terms) to construct rentals rather than condos. We see this from the Maddox and York at Warren to URL and the Majestic II across from City Hall.

If that is and continues to be the case, we might expect the glut of supply to stabilize rental prices downtown, but I would expect the impact on condo prices to be negligible since the supply of units to purchase is remaining static.

In fact, if more renters move here and decide they want to buy, the influx of newcomers might even drive condo prices up as demand increases but available inventory remains unchanged. I might be wrong on that point, but in any event, I can't see the flood of new rental inventory being a depreciative factor on real estate prices in DTJC.


I think that's a great analysis. Another point is that more development projects, restaurants, grocery stores, etc. bring attention to the city and could make it a more desirable place to live. The resulting increases in demand may compensate for or even rise faster than the increase in supply.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 21:38
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Bubble_Tea wrote:
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
Just another building that puts a strangle hold on property prices / values - Those that have bought in the past 10 years will never gain any rise in property prices as new apartments are being sold for the same amount; but maintaining a profitable margin to build them!


In fact, I think developments like this would increase rather than decrease property values despite the increase in supply. Although, they may decrease rental a bit.


Would you prefer a used car or a new car for the same price ?


If that's your sole point, it's an enormous oversimplification of many factors that impact market price in a fast-developing city.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 21:33
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
Just another building that puts a strangle hold on property prices / values - Those that have bought in the past 10 years will never gain any rise in property prices as new apartments are being sold for the same amount; but maintaining a profitable margin to build them!


It seems that all of the new high rise construction both downtown and in JSQ is "luxury rental". As discussed elsewhere on this board, developers are choosing (or are restricted through financing terms) to construct rentals rather than condos. We see this from the Maddox and York at Warren to URL and the Majestic II across from City Hall.

If that is and continues to be the case, we might expect the glut of supply to stabilize rental prices downtown, but I would expect the impact on condo prices to be negligible since the supply of units to purchase is remaining static.

In fact, if more renters move here and decide they want to buy, the influx of newcomers might even drive condo prices up as demand increases but available inventory remains unchanged. I might be wrong on that point, but in any event, I can't see the flood of new rental inventory being a depreciative factor on real estate prices in DTJC.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 21:31
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Bubble_Tea wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
Just another building that puts a strangle hold on property prices / values - Those that have bought in the past 10 years will never gain any rise in property prices as new apartments are being sold for the same amount; but maintaining a profitable margin to build them!


In fact, I think developments like this would increase rather than decrease property values despite the increase in supply. Although, they may decrease rental a bit.


Would you prefer a used car or a new car for the same price ?

Posted on: 2014/11/11 21:14
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
Just another building that puts a strangle hold on property prices / values - Those that have bought in the past 10 years will never gain any rise in property prices as new apartments are being sold for the same amount; but maintaining a profitable margin to build them!


In fact, I think developments like this would increase rather than decrease property values despite the increase in supply. Although, they may decrease rental a bit.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 21:03
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
Those that have bought in the past 10 years will never gain any rise in property prices as new apartments are being sold for the same amount; but maintaining a profitable margin to build them!


Bingo!

Posted on: 2014/11/11 20:59
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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Just another building that puts a strangle hold on property prices / values - Those that have bought in the past 10 years will never gain any rise in property prices as new apartments are being sold for the same amount; but maintaining a profitable margin to build them!

Posted on: 2014/11/11 20:54
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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craigslistdiva wrote:
This is good idea as long as it's done with good urban planning in mind. It will somewhat connect three standalone residential areas that will be connected via foot traffic (Hamilton Park, DT and Newport). Hopefully the retail that the developers are targeting are small time businesses; we already have enough chain stores at the mall. But then again, any retail will be a boost to the area.

As for the PATH perhaps there would be consideration of having 2 JSQ 33rd street trains to 1 HOB 33rd street train. It's a quick and easy fix. Well "easy" as long as someone at the PA can see that a larger population in JC warrants that.


I heard all of the retail space will be for pizza places.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 20:47
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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JCMan8 wrote:
I think that complex is in desperate need of an update. I'm sure the retail will be better after this project is complete.

HOWEVER, the PATH is already ridiculously overcrowded at most hours of the day. As it stands, an extra 30,000 or people will be using it after the existing new construction is completed. It's doubtful there is enough capacity to handle those developments.

Now they want to add countless additional people into the area? I don't think this should be allowed unless the developers have a concrete plan as to how they will preserve the city's already strained infrastructure and some kind of arrangement is worked out to ease the PATH crowding.


More ferry service!

Posted on: 2014/11/11 20:42
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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This is good idea as long as it's done with good urban planning in mind. It will somewhat connect three standalone residential areas that will be connected via foot traffic (Hamilton Park, DT and Newport). Hopefully the retail that the developers are targeting are small time businesses; we already have enough chain stores at the mall. But then again, any retail will be a boost to the area.

As for the PATH perhaps there would be consideration of having 2 JSQ 33rd street trains to 1 HOB 33rd street train. It's a quick and easy fix. Well "easy" as long as someone at the PA can see that a larger population in JC warrants that.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 20:31
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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I heard ShopRite will be rebuilt in one of the new "structures" before it's torn down - Downtown will not be without its ShopRite - just missing the huge parking lot. Traffic in and out of parking garages will be a difficult - I imagine more people will opt to walk instead of a quick drive to the supermarket because of the hassle to park.

This redevelopment plan was approved by planning board two years ago. The developer is just revealing what they want to build after planning approved the density/heights and new streetscape.


Posted on: 2014/11/11 19:44
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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PATH is run by the PA. There is better chance of Netanyahu making out Abbas on live TV than the PA coming out with a plan to expand the PATH or otherwise make it better in a way that doesn't provide a concrete benefit for them (like the airport expansion right to their facilities).

JC would be moronic to connect development to PATH improvement. The MTA nor no subway service in any gentrifying space anywhere in the world makes such a connection.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 19:36
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K-Lo wrote:
Just throw on two more cars now and make sure the Grove Street people don't get on the front and back car? Why is that so difficult? The LIRR has been doing this for years.


I think it's illegal under federal law. The LIRR isn't federally regulated because it doesn't cross state lines.


Pre-911 the last car that pulled into the Exchange Place Station doors didn't open up.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 19:35
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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devilsadvocate wrote:
And if the EBT crowd finds that they have nowhere to shop anymore and end up moving out of DTJC? Then I consider that another plus of the proposal.


I believe the phrase I'm looking for is

Resized Image

Posted on: 2014/11/11 19:33
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
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K-Lo wrote:
Just throw on two more cars now and make sure the Grove Street people don't get on the front and back car? Why is that so difficult? The LIRR has been doing this for years.


I think it's illegal under federal law. The LIRR isn't federally regulated because it doesn't cross state lines.


I think that's correct. It would also explain why the MTA is allowed to have a limited number of subway cars that can access the South Ferry station (I mean the old/reused station, not the one that was destroyed by Sandy).

Posted on: 2014/11/11 19:29
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2015/12/30 14:17
From Paulus Hook
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Quote:

K-Lo wrote:
Just throw on two more cars now and make sure the Grove Street people don't get on the front and back car? Why is that so difficult? The LIRR has been doing this for years.


I think it's illegal under federal law. The LIRR isn't federally regulated because it doesn't cross state lines.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 19:22
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Re: High-rise development at Metro Plaza (Shoprite, BJs, Pepboys)
#14
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2009/12/22 20:28
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2017/11/7 17:48
From 8th st
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Things the PATH can do:

Signals (under way)
Station extensions (under way?)
Articulated trains

If all three of those get done that is one heck of a lot more capacity. Even if just two get done it is still a lot more capacity... Which we are going to need when Amtrak takes their tunnel out of service for repairs.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 19:03
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