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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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JPhurst wrote:
I'm not sure why people keep saying that state funds are somehow the suburbs money going to the city. The urban areas are where the jobs are located, and where business that generates sales tax is located. Sure there are some exceptions like the Short Hills Mall, and some income is generated from investments and the like, rather than jobs. But many of those suburbanites demanding their "fair share" commute into NYC, and pay their income tax to NY, not NJ. (The same is true, of course, for Jersey City residents that hop the PATH train in).

Whatever the issues with "fair share" of property taxes going to schools, Jersey City and other urban areas provide the lion's share of funding to the state.


Source for this completely made up tidbit?

I'm sure JC produces more revenue than most cities in NJ. It's highly unlikely they provide more revenue than the rest of the state. But nice try. Party's over, pal.

Posted on: 2018/6/4 2:01
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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I'm not sure why people keep saying that state funds are somehow the suburbs money going to the city. The urban areas are where the jobs are located, and where business that generates sales tax is located. Sure there are some exceptions like the Short Hills Mall, and some income is generated from investments and the like, rather than jobs. But many of those suburbanites demanding their "fair share" commute into NYC, and pay their income tax to NY, not NJ. (The same is true, of course, for Jersey City residents that hop the PATH train in).

Whatever the issues with "fair share" of property taxes going to schools, Jersey City and other urban areas provide the lion's share of funding to the state.

Posted on: 2018/6/4 1:10
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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bodhipooh wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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HeightsNative wrote:
Monroe, and non JC residents like him, quite frankly, have just as much skin in the game with JC as residents do.


No, they don't. Same as we don't let foreigners, even ones who live here, vote in our US elections. If a JC public employee chooses not to live in the city that employs them, they give up the right to vote in that city. They can choose to work elsewhere, same as all the people who complain about street noise and parking are told to move if they don't like it.

I hate the fact that we have Monmouth County resident cops who, when told of a crime, think and even occasionally say, "what do you expect, living in this shithole?" I had a friend who taught in the system say the other night that one of her colleagues was an deep racist who hated all the kids in the school. When your city employees are only interested in what they can extract from a city they don't live in, you don't give them a say in the budget.


Doesn't it smack you of "taxation without representation?" While I agree that non-residents can't (or, shouldn't) directly affect local politics, I do find it more than a little ironic to feign some indignation at non-residents for wanting to more say (or, visibility) into local spending when the city (and, its residents) are more than willing and happy to take the money of non-residents to help pay for local matters.

It reminds me of the proverbial free loader whose family will help finance his expenses, but who gets upset when someone questions his lifestyle and choices. Talk about chutzpah, really.


It's not proverbial; JC is one of the worst freeloader around. Period. Want outsiders to butt out? No problem, just relinquish the state of the almost $500mm they give a year for these failing schools, and you won't hear a peep from the outsiders. Until then, JC is the equivalent of living in moms basement.

Posted on: 2018/6/4 0:57
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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When suburban taxpayers pump 1.2 billion dollars into JC schools every three years-which spend 25% more per student than the state average, and have putrid graduation rates (minus McNair), you're damn right other state taxpayers get a say. And they do, finally, through the state legislators who see how unfair it is to their own cities and schools.

Posted on: 2018/6/4 0:56
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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bodhipooh wrote:
Doesn't it smack you of "taxation without representation?"

No more so than if I went into NY and had to pay higher sales tax. I don't get a say. There's a pretty good argument for this merely from a macro POV, these employees drive JC roads and benefit from JC 1st responder services, etc without paying anything to this city. I've heard this argument defending NYC's tax. It makes a lot of sense for a city with a big non-resident commuter population, unlike many sprawling smaller cities in this country that include much of the nearby suburbs in their borders.

Sure you can argue their employers pay property tax or PILOTS, and they spend money here, but that's not nearly as much as if they lived here.

That said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the city exempts nonresident city employees.

Posted on: 2018/6/4 0:54
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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HeightsNative wrote:
Monroe, and non JC residents like him, quite frankly, have just as much skin in the game with JC as residents do.


No, they don't. Same as we don't let foreigners, even ones who live here, vote in our US elections. If a JC public employee chooses not to live in the city that employs them, they give up the right to vote in that city. They can choose to work elsewhere, same as all the people who complain about street noise and parking are told to move if they don't like it.

I hate the fact that we have Monmouth County resident cops who, when told of a crime, think and even occasionally say, "what do you expect, living in this shithole?" I had a friend who taught in the system say the other night that one of her colleagues was an deep racist who hated all the kids in the school. When your city employees are only interested in what they can extract from a city they don't live in, you don't give them a say in the budget.


Doesn't it smack you of "taxation without representation?" While I agree that non-residents can't (or, shouldn't) directly affect local politics, I do find it more than a little ironic to feign some indignation at non-residents for wanting to more say (or, visibility) into local spending when the city (and, its residents) are more than willing and happy to take the money of non-residents to help pay for local matters.

It reminds me of the proverbial free loader whose family will help finance his expenses, but who gets upset when someone questions his lifestyle and choices. Talk about chutzpah, really.

Posted on: 2018/6/4 0:33
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Monroe wrote:
Is this a 1% tax on JC business employees, or a 1% tax on payroll paid by the companies?


The tax is on the business, not the worker.

The first version of it says it "shall not apply to the remuneration paid by employers to employees who are residents of the municipality." Newark has allowed for exemptions for businesses that employ 50% Newark residents.

I spoke with Sweeney's office on Friday and they indicated it's not finalized who if anyone would be exempt from the JC tax.

Posted on: 2018/6/3 23:45
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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HeightsNative wrote:
Monroe, and non JC residents like him, quite frankly, have just as much skin in the game with JC as residents do.


No, they don't. Same as we don't let foreigners, even ones who live here, vote in our US elections. If a JC public employee chooses not to live in the city that employs them, they give up the right to vote in that city. They can choose to work elsewhere, same as all the people who complain about street noise and parking are told to move if they don't like it.

I hate the fact that we have Monmouth County resident cops who, when told of a crime, think and even occasionally say, "what do you expect, living in this shithole?" I had a friend who taught in the system say the other night that one of her colleagues was an deep racist who hated all the kids in the school. When your city employees are only interested in what they can extract from a city they don't live in, you don't give them a say in the budget.

Posted on: 2018/6/3 23:37
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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But the Star Ledger says the tax will be a tax on businesses.

"Sweeney's plan — which assumes the start of a new tax on Jersey City businesses expected to bring in $70 million at least in new revenue — inched closer to reality on Thursday when he said he is willing to risk another state government shutdown if lawmakers do not tackle school funding. A budget spat in 2016 led the government to shut down for three days."

Posted on: 2018/6/3 23:16
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Monroe wrote:
Does this mean that if you're a resident of JC you would be untaxed on the 1%, while JC workers from other towns have to pay it?


Sounds like yes, unless JC decides to tax it's residents too. So...NYC does it, Newark does it, will the world end if we do it too rather than raise the rate 25%? Obviously this is a component of how NYC keeps it's residential property taxes so low.

I'd rather see school cost reformed, but that ain't going to happen, we're talking seriously entrenched interests. And BTW, a lot of those so interested city employees don't even live here, same as you don't.


NYC residents who work in NYC aren't exempt from NYC payroll taxes. And the low taxes in NYC come about from the giant $ generated by Wall Street.

Newark residents and non-residents who work in Newark both pay the 1%.

http://www.tax-rates.org/new_jersey/newark-income-tax

Posted on: 2018/6/3 22:44
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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brewster wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Does this mean that if you're a resident of JC you would be untaxed on the 1%, while JC workers from other towns have to pay it?


Sounds like yes, unless JC decides to tax it's residents too. So...NYC does it, Newark does it, will the world end if we do it too rather than raise the rate 25%? Obviously this is a component of how NYC keeps it's residential property taxes so low.

I'd rather see school cost reformed, but that ain't going to happen, we're talking seriously entrenched interests. And BTW, a lot of those so interested city employees don't even live here, same as you don't.


Why the last, snarky remark? Monroe, and non JC residents like him, quite frankly, have just as much skin in the game with JC as residents do. I'd argue non JC residents have more interest given they fund the majority of JC's school budget. I'm sure they'd like to understand what they're paying for, and they probably don't want to pay it anymore. To exempt JC residents from this, given that it exists to fund JC expenses, is ludicrous.

Posted on: 2018/6/3 22:40
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Monroe wrote:
Does this mean that if you're a resident of JC you would be untaxed on the 1%, while JC workers from other towns have to pay it?


Sounds like yes, unless JC decides to tax it's residents too. So...NYC does it, Newark does it, will the world end if we do it too rather than raise the rate 25%? Obviously this is a component of how NYC keeps it's residential property taxes so low.

I'd rather see school cost reformed, but that ain't going to happen, we're talking seriously entrenched interests. And BTW, a lot of those so interested city employees don't even live here, same as you don't.

Posted on: 2018/6/3 22:02
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Is this a 1% tax on JC business employees, or a 1% tax on payroll paid by the companies? The Star Ledger says this

"The plan would allow any New Jersey municipality with a population over 200,000 — only Newark, which already has a payroll tax, and Jersey City apply — to levy the payroll tax. The city would be allowed to exempt wages from Jersey City residents."

Does this mean that if you're a resident of JC you would be untaxed on the 1%, while JC workers from other towns have to pay it?

Posted on: 2018/6/3 20:12
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Adonis wrote:
With the amount of wealth in Jersey City now there should be no way that we aren't funding our own way in such matters.


I disagree, there's a huge difference between "paying our own way" and what SFRA (and Abbott before it) was designed to do in making the wealthier areas of the state contribute to education in the poorer parts. And like it or not, JC is still proportionally poorer than many areas of NJ that have no poor people at all. We are far from a demographic microcosm of the state, which is why SFRA says we need to pay 33% not 100%.

Posted on: 2018/6/3 19:27
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Adonis wrote:
With the amount of wealth in Jersey City now there should be no way that we aren't funding our own way in such matters. But with a mayor that is so proud whenever Jersey City expands services without having its residents pay for it self funding is very difficult.


Bingo. Absolute bingo.

Posted on: 2018/6/3 17:24
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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With the amount of wealth in Jersey City now there should be no way that we aren't funding our own way in such matters. But with a mayor that is so proud whenever Jersey City expands services without having its residents pay for it self funding is very difficult.

Posted on: 2018/6/3 16:28
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Bodhi and stateaidguy nailed it, and do so with facts, logic and reason. So far, all of the counter arguments I've seen it are based in emotion and "what about me?" Hyperbole and fear.

I think things are finally moving in the right direction, but still have a long way to go. I agree the the payroll tax is a bad solution (for small businesses) that will continue to spur bad behavior, and is indicative of the city unwilling to face reality. A reality that has a mayor boasting ad nauseum about the rise of JC and successes in JC, but denial that it's on the backs of not only the poorer parts of JC, but the state as a whole.

People around the rest of JC and the state are starting to get a whiff of what's happening, and they strongly dislike the smell.

Posted on: 2018/6/3 16:13
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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RichMauro wrote:
Interesting comment within the first article:

"Critics of the current funding system say Jersey City residents can afford to pay more than they do via the tax levy, which will be $124 million for 2018-19 (the district receives a total of $410 million in state aid)."

That's a frightening assumption, but I guess they're looking at all of the real estate millionaires who've been created since the reval.

Hoo HaH!!


But, it's not a frightening assumption, it's the truth! It only seems that way because people in JC have gotten SO USED to someone else footing our bills for so long that now being asked to pony up a relatively small percentage (say, 33% of the total school bill) seems shocking. In the real world, if you wanted to indulge in overspending, you wouldn't be able to pass that on to someone else so easily. Ultimately, it is VERY EASY to be in favor of increased social services programs, and bigger government, when you don't have to pay for them.

Currently, we are paying for ~17% of our school budget. Being asked to should twice that amount (~33%) is most definitely an imposition from a numbers perspective. Of course, that means a doubling of the local school levy, which would translate into a 25% increase of our new tax bills. Of course, people dont want to pay for more, but they dont want to make the tough choices to cut back in other areas. Ultimately, something HAS to give.

Allowing JC to impose a payroll tax is, to me, a terrible idea. It would only embolen the JCBOE to continue their wasteful ways, and who is to say the tax is kept at 1% for now? If things dont improve and streamline, who is to say the city doesnt find it easy and convenient to up that tax to 1.5%? Or, higher even??

Posted on: 2018/6/3 15:02
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Interesting comment within the first article:

"Critics of the current funding system say Jersey City residents can afford to pay more than they do via the tax levy, which will be $124 million for 2018-19 (the district receives a total of $410 million in state aid)."

That's a frightening assumption, but I guess they're looking at all of the real estate millionaires who've been created since the reval.

Hoo HaH!!

Posted on: 2018/6/3 14:47
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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" Cunningham could not say how much the tax would rake in, but she said it "would be enough to take care of the woes in our school system." " .... and then sum???

Gotta love the benevolent government "We have to pass the bill to see what's in it." management style.

Posted on: 2018/6/3 14:42
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Posted on: 2018/6/3 14:33
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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JCBOE is pushing for a payroll tax? Can we vote these bums out?

Posted on: 2018/6/3 14:10
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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You all have the politics of this wrong.

It isn't Sweeney who is "slapping" a payroll tax onto JC.

The idea for a payroll tax has been supported by the JCBOE. The primary sponsor in the legislator is none other than Sandra Cunningham.

Sweeney wants to eliminate Jersey City's Adjustment Aid, and making up for that revenue loss will require higher local taxes, but Sweeney isn't being unfair to Jersey City, since there are about 200 other districts who are going to lose Adjustment Aid with Jersey City.

I'm sure that Sweeney would rather Jersey City just raise its property tax levy (like every other district). Sweeney is now supporting a payroll tax out of deference to Cunningham.

Posted on: 2018/6/3 13:25
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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TheBigGuy wrote:
And then you can be real cynical... and wonder if Sweeney is sticking it to Fulop to make sure the Jersey City Miracle flounders and kills Fulop's statewide political aspirations.


To be fair, that idea and the idea it's the right thing to do are not mutually exclusive.

Posted on: 2018/6/2 20:40
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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And then you can be real cynical... and wonder if Sweeney is sticking it to Fulop to make sure the Jersey City Miracle flounders and kills Fulop's statewide political aspirations.

Posted on: 2018/6/2 20:20
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Re: Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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This is similar to what's being done to Amazon in Seattle although for a different reason.
Will Bezos fall for being subjected to this by bringing the Amazon operation to NJ?--I think not.
Plus Murphy is already taxing New Jersey business to grab some of the tax break from Trump's tax policies.
Perfect together ?-- no more in Jersey.

Posted on: 2018/6/2 18:53
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Sweeney proposes slapping payroll tax on Jersey City businesses to fund schools
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Wow

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... oser_under_sweeney_s.html

Loss of state aid, but to be replaced by a payroll or city income tax for only jersey city businesses.

This is the worst idea ever.

Posted on: 2018/6/2 15:21
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