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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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I generally like the Heights, but without 24 hour transportation I just don't think it will ever fully take off. I wish they could extend the Hoboken Path line to terminate in the Heights, but I was told on here (by Ian I think) that it is impossible to do so.

I think JSQ will take off before the Heights. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't already, looking at how far out gentrification is occuring EAST of the city in some pretty distant neighborhoods in Brooklyn.

Posted on: 2012/11/27 18:54
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Quote:

vindication15 wrote:

I'm not the gambling type. But if I were to gamble, I would at least make a somewhat sensical gamble.

Let's see, what is the capital of the world...NYC. DTJC = close to NYC = money. Hoboken = close to NYC = money.

Heights = not close to NYC, not a good gamble.

In reality, any area around the PATH will see an increase in property values first before the heights does. There are better options than the heights.

Need to be close to NYC? Live in DTJC, Newport, or Hoboken

Need more space? Live in a surburb because you'll need a car in both the heights and the surburbs and the suburbs have better schools, less crime, less grit.


To hear the heights being compared to Hoboken is almost laughable. I think this thread should be named, "Heights or Bergen Lafayetter? Where should I live if I don't want to live in Greenville?"



Clearly you don't understand gambling (or RE investing) at all. There's rarely much of a return in putting money on a sure thing. DTJC, Newport, or Hoboken are the sure thing, and are not only very pricey, their returns as investments are lower by P/E metrics than other areas. For people of lesser means who want to buy something with a better chance of appreciating, other neighborhoods are where the game is, though the risks ARE higher.

"Heights = not close to NYC, not a good gamble." Did you even read Kitten's lovely post #16?

Posted on: 2012/11/27 18:15
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Quote:

vindication15 wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

vindication15 wrote:
It's extremely funny reading some of these posts in this thread and others. The bias I find is amazing. "The heights is up and coming." "Greenville is up and coming." "BL is up and coming."

Look at property values and median income, those are the only stories that matters. Development and business follow the money and currently the money is in DTJC and Newport, not the heights, Greenville, or BL.


I guess you're the kind of person who never, ever gets ahead of the crowd. There were plenty of people thinking we were too adventurous buying in Hamilton Park in 97. We felt truly adventurous was 79, and by 2002 the party was in full swing. But if you wait for the sure thing and don't ever plug in your crystal ball and give it a go, the big opportunity is no longer there. Mock all you want, and say Downtown in 97 wasn't risky at all, but the numbers don't lie.



I'm not the gambling type. But if I were to gamble, I would at least make a somewhat sensical gamble.

Let's see, what is the capital of the world...NYC. DTJC = close to NYC = money. Hoboken = close to NYC = money.

Heights = not close to NYC, not a good gamble.

In reality, any area around the PATH will see an increase in property values first before the heights does. There are better options than the heights.

Need to be close to NYC? Live in DTJC, Newport, or Hoboken

Need more space? Live in a surburb because you'll need a car in both the heights and the surburbs and the suburbs have better schools, less crime, less grit.


To hear the heights being compared to Hoboken is almost laughable. I think this thread should be named, "Heights or Bergen Lafayetter? Where should I live if I don't want to live in Greenville?"




You are obviously not the gambling type... East Side heights is the Gentrification hotspot right now and has been for the past year.

Being someone who is always meeting people form the Area, I get feedback from people living in hoboken and dowtown who say they are really thinking about moving into the heights.

I speak to people in the heights who say they could not see themselves moving out.

I live in the heights and Everything that I need to travel, live, or work is of a 5 min access from me.

No complains and no flooding for me in the cozy toasty heights..

Mr. Monopoly is definitely looking for investments on the east side heights vecinity.

your gambles a flop brooo.

Brewster: dthe heights is currently what downtown was in 2004...moving on up.

Posted on: 2012/11/27 18:07
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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bunny22 wrote:
I've been waiting 10 years for the heights to gentrify and I am Finally seeing some acceleration. We now have "Yoga in the Heights" which uses the "Distillery" art gallery space for classes. We have a farmer's market and the beginnings of Movies in the park in the summer. The loft space at 500 Palisade at Bower is being rented and used by artists as gallery space. The artists are coming and where they go, gentrification will follow. From what I see, the demographic moving in is the Hoboken crowd--young, professional, educated--both single and married with babies. The light rail elevator is packed with young people and their bicyles. The Heights may never be Hoboken in our lifetime but the trend toward it is getting stronger. And don't forget that under that awful vinyl siding lurks wood frame Victorian or brick rowhouse details. These buildings need an owner with deep enough pockets to rip down the vinyl and restore....

I too see the Heights progressing much more then other parts of the city outside of the DT area. Actually it is the east side of the Heights thats is changing the west side is still mostly residential 2 and single family homes with residents living there for many years. I see the east side of the Heights growing with a younger sect of people, more artsy types, and pockets of condo conversions. And yes many more bikers riding around the area heck we even have two bike shops it's like living in the East Village. Now if only we had a coffee shop.

Posted on: 2012/11/27 16:01
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

vindication15 wrote:
It's extremely funny reading some of these posts in this thread and others. The bias I find is amazing. "The heights is up and coming." "Greenville is up and coming." "BL is up and coming."

Look at property values and median income, those are the only stories that matters. Development and business follow the money and currently the money is in DTJC and Newport, not the heights, Greenville, or BL.


I guess you're the kind of person who never, ever gets ahead of the crowd. There were plenty of people thinking we were too adventurous buying in Hamilton Park in 97. We felt truly adventurous was 79, and by 2002 the party was in full swing. But if you wait for the sure thing and don't ever plug in your crystal ball and give it a go, the big opportunity is no longer there. Mock all you want, and say Downtown in 97 wasn't risky at all, but the numbers don't lie.



I'm not the gambling type. But if I were to gamble, I would at least make a somewhat sensical gamble.

Let's see, what is the capital of the world...NYC. DTJC = close to NYC = money. Hoboken = close to NYC = money.

Heights = not close to NYC, not a good gamble.

In reality, any area around the PATH will see an increase in property values first before the heights does. There are better options than the heights.

Need to be close to NYC? Live in DTJC, Newport, or Hoboken

Need more space? Live in a surburb because you'll need a car in both the heights and the surburbs and the suburbs have better schools, less crime, less grit.


To hear the heights being compared to Hoboken is almost laughable. I think this thread should be named, "Heights or Bergen Lafayetter? Where should I live if I don't want to live in Greenville?"


Posted on: 2012/11/27 4:37
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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In a hopeful sign, an old 2 family was torn down and replaced with a new one. The builder actually did a very good job (as best you can do with the idiotic zoning rules regarding the R-1 zone). Very good quality materials, excellent workmanship and other details. The builder asked a premium price (IMO) for the Heights and got it right away. An Indian family bought the place. The agent for the builder told me of an Indian investment group has been buying up the dregs properties on my block. Two months ago, they bought the cat-piss house next to mine (the 1st floor had 26 or so cats.. minus the ones that dropped dead in the back yard).

I was told they are fixing them up some just to rent them out and break even. If the market improves, they are going to tear them down and build new. Hopefully, it will be the same quality construction across the street from me.

I would like to improve the outside of my buildings more (I also hate vinyl siding). However, being under 5 units, my tax assessment is based on comparison sales and not rent income. I can't handle having my assessments raised since i am constrained on how much I can charge (my rents are lower now than in 1999). Plus, tenants care more about the inside of a building than the outside.

Posted on: 2012/11/27 0:41
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Quote:

vindication15 wrote:
It's extremely funny reading some of these posts in this thread and others. The bias I find is amazing. "The heights is up and coming." "Greenville is up and coming." "BL is up and coming."

Look at property values and median income, those are the only stories that matters. Development and business follow the money and currently the money is in DTJC and Newport, not the heights, Greenville, or BL.


I guess you're the kind of person who never, ever gets ahead of the crowd. There were plenty of people thinking we were too adventurous buying in Hamilton Park in 97. We felt truly adventurous was 79, and by 2002 the party was in full swing. But if you wait for the sure thing and don't ever plug in your crystal ball and give it a go, the big opportunity is no longer there. Mock all you want, and say Downtown in 97 wasn't risky at all, but the numbers don't lie.


Posted on: 2012/11/27 0:04
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Why is it refreshing? So it's refreshing to see others lose what you are too poor to afford? Nice. You ask for thoughtful responses without providing one yourself.

It's extremely funny reading some of these posts in this thread and others. The bias I find is amazing. "The heights is up and coming." "Greenville is up and coming." "BL is up and coming."

Look at property values and median income, those are the only stories that matters. Development and business follow the money and currently the money is in DTJC and Newport, not the heights, Greenville, or BL.




Quote:

brosjch wrote:
With Hoboken and low lying parts of JC seeing such flooding, I've been wondering what will the effect be on Heights real estate? Mostly Hoboken really, kinda refreshing to see the wind taken out of their bloated $property value$ sails.

Any thoughts? Will Heights see a boom...being 100 ft above sea level and all? The global warming 'alarmists' will be trumpeting Sandy as "things to come", so who will benefit?

Please, only thought-out responses. No silliness because you're butt-hurt over my tone or content.


Posted on: 2012/11/26 23:26
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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After living downtown for a few years, the one thing I thought about moving to the Heights was that my commute was going to be way more inconvenient. But for the past year, I have found my commute to be a breeze. I pick up a jitney every morning at the end of my street. They come every 15 minutes in the morning and i know the schedule. On a typical day it takes about 25 minutes to get me to 42nd street. And it costs $3 and I get a seat every time. Coming home I pick up the jitney at 41 st between 7th and 8th. Sometimes it's a longer ride but generally it's about 40 minutes and it costs $2.50. If I work late, I take the PATH to Hoboken or jsq and take the 87 bus or a taxi. And I have had no real problems. I also like that the Hoboken and jsq path are equidistant from my house so I can choose which one I want or take the first one that comes. (when it was running, I preferred Hoboken)

The commute was definitely the biggest obstacle for me to get over when considering the move to the heights. Once there I did realize it was no big deal.

Posted on: 2012/11/26 18:13
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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I've been waiting 10 years for the heights to gentrify and I am Finally seeing some acceleration. We now have "Yoga in the Heights" which uses the "Distillery" art gallery space for classes. We have a farmer's market and the beginnings of Movies in the park in the summer. The loft space at 500 Palisade at Bower is being rented and used by artists as gallery space. The artists are coming and where they go, gentrification will follow. From what I see, the demographic moving in is the Hoboken crowd--young, professional, educated--both single and married with babies. The light rail elevator is packed with young people and their bicyles. The Heights may never be Hoboken in our lifetime but the trend toward it is getting stronger. And don't forget that under that awful vinyl siding lurks wood frame Victorian or brick rowhouse details. These buildings need an owner with deep enough pockets to rip down the vinyl and restore....

Posted on: 2012/11/26 17:19
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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A friend of mine, who owns a house up the street from my condo, had just this discussion as we were enjoying a drink and watching CNN post-Sandy (his block didn't loose power, while mine did). Unfortunately, I doubt property values will every take off commensurate with Hoboken/Downtown JC; although I suppose it depends on who you are expecting to move here. If you are thinking "gentrification" in the same vein as DTJC - younger/better off/professional/culturally engaged, the demographic that drove the renewal of Hoboken DTJC - I doubt it will happen. The impact of Sandy on transit aside, unless you are RIGHT ON TOP OF the light-rail, or under a 10-15 minute walk to PATH, the mass transit options are terrible (think 87 bus which knows no schedule, no busses from Midtown after midnight...) and there are NO amenities for those seeking the urban ambience moving to Hoboken or DTJC offers. And except for Ogden Avenue, the Heights is UGLY - vinyl siding, trash galore and every scrap of grass paved over for more parking.

Will immigrant families drive an increase in property values, I mean comparable to other demographics who move somewhere for quality of life vs. space? @ BROSJCH - what degree of increase are you talking about?

Posted on: 2012/11/26 16:18
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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I believe the Heights is already improving

Posted on: 2012/11/25 22:02
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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I see no reason why JSQ has to gentrify before the Heights. All the families I know who bought there, many of whom moved from Hoboken, would not have moved to JSQ. They wanted quiet neighborhoods and low density with reasonable transit options. The better transit of the JSQ PATH did not outweigh the other factors. My tenants near the light rail adore their neighborhood, I've not had a vacancy there in 7 years, though perhaps I could be more aggressive with the rents.

There's simply no chance of rail being added to the Heights. The $1b/mile expense of tunneling an extension under the Palisades makes economic sense to no one in PATH, and no one in the heights is going to give up their street for the HBLR. Can you imagine the opposition to taking Baldwin/Webster for rail, never mind the best route of Summit? There's no street wide enough for rail AND traffic (not to mention parking), nor is there right of ways like they used for much of the HBLR.

Now, another elevator at Mountain Road down to the 2nd St HBLR stop WOULD be tremendous for that section of the Heights. Does anyone know status of restoring the legendary "100 steps" by the Cliffs?

Posted on: 2012/11/25 20:15
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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My building in the Heights that is near the elevator for the HBLR is one of the easiest ones to rent out. I guess you could (Assuming infinite money) expand the light rail in the Heights. J.C. Heights did have an extensive trolley network until after WWII.

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/PSNJ_Jersey_City

Posted on: 2012/11/25 19:03
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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it's amazing to see how quickly some are to put down others. one can argue that no one lives in northern new jersey except for quick access to manahattan...and btw, there are buses that can get one from the Heights to Port Authority/42nd street in about 20-30 minutes for $3.

Posted on: 2012/11/25 17:54
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Quote:

brosjch wrote:
With Hoboken and low lying parts of JC seeing such flooding, I've been wondering what will the effect be on Heights real estate? Mostly Hoboken really, kinda refreshing to see the wind taken out of their bloated $property value$ sails.

Any thoughts? Will Heights see a boom...being 100 ft above sea level and all? The global warming 'alarmists' will be trumpeting Sandy as "things to come", so who will benefit?

Please, only thought-out responses. No silliness because you're butt-hurt over my tone or content.



You were happy to see other people's property values go down? Damn, misery loves company, eh?

Posted on: 2012/11/25 17:17
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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This thread has to be a joke, right? No one lives downtown or in Hoboken for any other reason than access to the PATH, something the Heights simply doesn't have and never will have.

While no doubt the PATH's poor service availability in the immediate presence is depressing downtown and Hoboken rents and likely slowing the pace of home sales, this effect will be temporary. Three months after the PATH is restored, no one will remember what happened with the storm surge.



Posted on: 2012/11/25 17:03
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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I don't see why NJ transit can not build a station in Union City above the rails on the line from ny penn to seacaucus/newark

Posted on: 2012/11/25 16:51
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Dolomiti wrote:
I have a sneaking suspicion that Harrison will take off first. The "Harrison Station" project, on the former Hartz Mountain site, will have over 700 luxury rental units, 30,000 square feet of retail, and sheltered access to the PATH station.


I agree - anyone know if Port Authorty has any plans to have NJTransit trains stop there - that would fast track development. The Harrison station has three center tracks, which do not stop there, but are used by New Jersey Transit on the Northeast Corridor and North Jersey Coast Line.

Posted on: 2012/11/25 16:17
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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You won't get additional rail, either PATH or light-rail, in the Heights. It's too expensive, it won't serve enough people, the community would almost certainly oppose it.

I wouldn't count on Sandy having a long-term effect on property values in the Heights. I suspect what would/will have to happen first is that Journal Square has to gentrify. If that happens, the Heights might follow suit.

However, I have a sneaking suspicion that Harrison will take off first. The "Harrison Station" project, on the former Hartz Mountain site, will have over 700 luxury rental units, 30,000 square feet of retail, and sheltered access to the PATH station.

Posted on: 2012/11/25 15:37
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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I agree there's certainly potential for property value increases post Sandy. Several of my neighbors mentioned that some displaced Hoboken friends stayed in the Heights during and after the storm and commented that they would consider moving here. I think it's entirely possible. A PATH station in the Heights would be a lock for property value increases.

Posted on: 2012/11/25 14:00
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Keep an eye on property values in lower Manhattan, Battery Park City, GV, Chelsea near the river. Our fortunes are influenced by what happens there. I read an article that a movable dam like the ones used in Holland are being considered for the area beyond the Verrazano bridge, this would help protect NY harbor area.

Posted on: 2012/11/25 13:54
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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I can only imagine it wil help. The heights is already up and coming, and with the benefit of not flooding in a light drizzle, I see property values increasing in the near future.


Posted on: 2012/11/25 13:06
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Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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With Hoboken and low lying parts of JC seeing such flooding, I've been wondering what will the effect be on Heights real estate? Mostly Hoboken really, kinda refreshing to see the wind taken out of their bloated $property value$ sails.

Any thoughts? Will Heights see a boom...being 100 ft above sea level and all? The global warming 'alarmists' will be trumpeting Sandy as "things to come", so who will benefit?

Please, only thought-out responses. No silliness because you're butt-hurt over my tone or content.


Posted on: 2012/11/25 8:36

Edited by brosjch on 2012/11/25 8:53:30
Edited by brosjch on 2012/11/25 8:54:07
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