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Re: Newark Avenue StreetScape
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tommyc_37 wrote:
How thick was the stone they laid at Grove Plaza? I'd bet it's an inch, max.

I have no idea how that material was spec'd for that commercoial project. It cannot withstand commercial traffic, and it shows through all the cracking.

When properly done, bluestone is beautiful. And as to why JC seems obsessed with it ... it's because bluestone was predominantly used in the 1800s and early 1900s, and therefore fits in quite nicely in the Downtown neighborhoods, many of which are historic.


It definitely can't stand the traffic. Slate has a natural foliation/cleavage which makes it naturally susceptible flaking and chipping, but more so if you apply a focalized force - like high heels.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 19:22
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How thick was the stone they laid at Grove Plaza? I'd bet it's an inch, max.

I have no idea how that material was spec'd for that commercoial project. It cannot withstand commercial traffic, and it shows through all the cracking.

When properly done, bluestone is beautiful. And as to why JC seems obsessed with it ... it's because bluestone was predominantly used in the 1800s and early 1900s, and therefore fits in quite nicely in the Downtown neighborhoods, many of which are historic.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 19:12
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Re: Newark Avenue StreetScape
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JOGI wrote:
Agree again. Like the granite and bluestone we put in from Sussex to Montgomery on Greene? Thats on stone dust, I think it is better on a mortar base like we did by St. Aeden's church on Bergen Ave. Also the stone paving at Grove Plaza is thin, almost more of a slate. We bid that work as a subcontractor but we didnt get it. After seeing the stone they used I think I know why.


I looked at the stone laid at Grove Plaza when it was first put in, and it definitely looked more like a slate than a graywacke or even a shale.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 18:47
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Re: Newark Avenue StreetScape
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A magnesium finish, when properly done at the proper point in the pour, looks marvelous


Agreed. The problem on Newark was all the joints. Basicly they were looking for a stamped concrete look but told us we had to do it by hand. We do lots of mag finishes but working in such small panels means that you can never make a nice sweep with the float. Some of the guys just troweled over the joints and remade them and others just tried not to get too close to them, either way it was tedious work.

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As for the cross walks, it takes two thermoplastic stripes per crossing to create some form of safe space for pedestrians. It's unfortunate that the crossings remain a hazard while the City decides to decide.


Thank you for your well written post earlier which was a fair assesment of my attitude...which led to my retraction. I shouldve handled it better. But anyway the city did not want to apply any striping to th crosswalks directly on Newark so they wouldnt have to be milled off later to install the fancy ones. I agree it is important to get something in place for safety. Friday our stripers are set to return to finish things up. They are going to try a different product on the intersection of First and Newark. Its a product used in Canada and has never been used in the states. The port authority and others have shown interest but JC will be the first. They agreed to install it at no charge for the city. So as an FYI Friday between Coles and Jersey will be open for East bound traffic only.

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Bluestone, when placed correctly and using actual bluestone, can look very nice


Agree again. Like the granite and bluestone we put in from Sussex to Montgomery on Greene? Thats on stone dust, I think it is better on a mortar base like we did by St. Aeden's church on Bergen Ave. Also the stone paving at Grove Plaza is thin, almost more of a slate. We bid that work as a subcontractor but we didnt get it. After seeing the stone they used I think I know why.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 18:42
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JOGI,

On a side note, can we have a JClist fundraiser so that we can pay you to give Mayor Healy the concrete shoes?

Posted on: 2009/11/11 17:01
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JOGI,

I have poured concrete for many years, so I feel your pain. When I poured and finished a lot of concrete, I exclusively used the magnesium finish.

I personally think a broom finish looks cheap.

A magnesium finish, when properly done at the proper point in the pour, looks marvelous.

The magnesium finish that appears on much of the Newark Avenue sidewalks, however, looks rushed and sloppy.

Just an honest opinion from somebody who knows his sh*t.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 16:59
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JOGI,

Thank you for your candid, detailed and honest assessment of the sidewalk construction, not to mention keeping the dialogue informative and courteous. Though it wasn?t your role to do so, you win lots of points for sticking your nose to explain your work. One can?t always expect bouquets, but the City could have done better with keeping people informed.

As for the cross walks, it takes two thermoplastic stripes per crossing to create some form of safe space for pedestrians. It's unfortunate that the crossings remain a hazard while the City decides to decide.

Thank you, again.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 16:31
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Re: Newark Avenue StreetScape
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I stick with saccharine or stevia -- the saccharine scare was just bad science -- I hate aspartame. So I guess I would rather have vending machines with unsweetened Ice tea or if it has to be a sugar free coke product how about TAB? haha Resized Image Quote:
pooper wrote: Thumbs up on the free diet cokes. Microwave popcorn however is an abomination.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 16:16
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Re: Newark Avenue StreetScape
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Bluestone, when placed correctly and using actual bluestone, can look very nice.

Cement made to look like bluestone - as JOGI said, not so nice.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 16:04
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I also do not know what the city's fascination with bluestone is. The bluestone area by the Grove PATH is constantly cracking and/or coming loose.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 15:46
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Thumbs up on the free diet cokes.

Microwave popcorn however is an abomination.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 15:21
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does the city have any plans to fix up 2nd street by the waterfront to washington ave and possibly further out? As it stands now, it looks like the whole street was bombed by b52s..a couple times no less.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 3:59
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jennymayla wrote:
you could have lined the streets with gold coins and installed a real live cop, a flowery rose bush, and a diet coke machine dispensing free 20 oz bottles on each corner and people would still complain about it around here. it's what we do. it's chronic and it's a shame.

keep your sense of humor!


I hate diet coke.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 3:52
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Newark Avenue is still pretty ugly. A lot of it has to do with the storefronts. I agree with JOGI that the end product on the sidewalks does not look great. I was impressed with the speed of construction though.

Posted on: 2009/11/11 2:54
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JOGI wrote:
... I just stuck my nose in here because it seemed like people really wanted some answers and I felt I could help out.


ah, see, that was your first mistake.

i appreciate hearing your point of view and commend you for standing behind your work and making your point of view known.

you could have lined the streets with gold coins and installed a real live cop, a flowery rose bush, and a diet coke machine dispensing free 20 oz bottles on each corner and people would still complain about it around here. it's what we do. it's chronic and it's a shame.

keep your sense of humor!

Posted on: 2009/11/11 1:33
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meddling management-types demanding a process that's more labor-intensive and results in an inferior product? sounds like my old job in network television. sorry you also have to live that, Jogi. godspeed.

Posted on: 2009/11/10 23:17
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After re-reading my post I realized I must have been having a pretty bad day. I didn't mean to insult or enrage...well maybe I did, but I take it back. I never was never very good at public relations...or pouring concrete, as some have pointed out.

The comments about the workmanship is what really got me. Our crews are the same people who finished many projects downtown as well as other areas around the city. The finishers we have are some of the best in the buisness and work all over the state however, the finish specified on this project was intended to be rough and random in appearance. It was my opinion that a standard broom finish with neat sawcut joints would have yeilded a much nicer finish....kind of like we did on Bergen Ave or Greene Street. Not to mention faster and less labor intensive but the city didn\'t go for it. Begging your patience let me explain from my side:

First the concrete is placed, and then a bull float is used to flatten it out. Then on most other projects a broom is run over the top and its done. But JC requsted a magnesium float finish and tooled joints in an attempt to create a bluestone look. This means that there is a lot of layout so the cuts are consistant and perfectly straight with the other slabs you poured. Then the joint tool is hand applied and each little block is created in a non-colinear running bond pattern. Then a magnesium hand float is used to roughen up the srface..this means most of the joints you made need to be opened back up and carefully recreated. All of this with NJDOT concrete which in the summer gives you about an hour or so to actually do all this with 10 cubic yards, even with a retarder admix it pretty much doubles the amount of men and about triples the amount of time to pour a load. And in the end it really doesn\'t look that great. So having gone through this all summer I\'m a little sensitive to criticism. No one\'s eyes are as critical as mine and it disappoints me when people feel I haven\'t done my job or wasted their money after we did our best.

The HDSID gets updates from the city and our company so if you have any questions or concerns it would probably be best to contact them and they can contact me. I dont want to interfere with their operations when it is their responsibility (and I do believe they're better at it) to answer questions. I just stuck my nose in here because it seemed like people really wanted some answers and I felt I could help out.

Posted on: 2009/11/10 20:45
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Eloquently stated Home. +1.

Quote:

Home wrote:
I am a government servant living in downtown Jersey City though not part of the local or the state government. JOGI comes across as a decent and patient person, having had seen his approach in addressing concerns aired on this forum. His latest post, however, betrays some facts on the ground and the role of a contractor in commenting on tax payer-funded projects.

JOGI is the superintendent of the construction company of the eponymous name, correct me if he isn't, and should reasonably be aware that the taxes rendered by so-called complainants on this forum whom he paints as possessing "modest knowledge of any subject", is how he gets paid. It's not a conveniently phrased "local government"-- perhaps half of whom seem adept at pilferering public money and are now undergoing judicial scrutiny--that pays him. It's outrageous a contractor airs mocking comments vis-a-vis tax payers! This usually is the case when accountability is eroded in local governance. JOGI's sincerity could do with a dose of realism, first: own up the less-than-professional sidewalk construction. It's a civic betrayal, sir, to present the taxpayer with amateur construction, and none on this forum need knowledge of what a good job looks and feels like.

JOGI was way off line to blame listers, divving them into the genuine and not-so-genuine questioners. One need not have a degree in government to understand how government works. A flop show exposes itself.

That JOGI tackled unsafe vaults is not the issue, if he didn't, he should be fired; that he did, is part of the paid contract, and a pat on the back. The issue is "fancy cross walks", as he phrases it. I am sure JOGI must have seen the elderly or children in strollers or the handicapped crossing Jersey Avenue at the Mercado Park, for instance. Today, at 8.45 am, when the cross light was green, a girl had to rush across the street where the painted cross walk might have been, as a car, oblivious of the signal, swerved towards her. A cross wall empowers the pedestrian, re-assuring to whatever degree it can the sense of security, and right of way. Would it make a difference if the cross walk had been painted? A drunk driver wouldn't care less, but common sense says pedestrian safety is not up for debate, especially since grant money is meager!

While "fancy cross walks" are not painted, we find that no-parking zones and parking lines next to the coin meters are neatly painted within your budget! This, sir, is the local government's priority, and you are out to bat for them! Perhaps painting no-parking zones near road corners is a safety issue, but the local government doesn't think that that should be done at all road corners in downtown. The message this sends is that the local government, touting its long-life thermoplastic idiocy, wouldn't waste a day on revenue from painted parking zones, but is indifferent about pedestrian safety. "Interjection of truth", indeed. Someone said that one act of real usefulness is worth all the abstract sentiment in the world. You, sir, do come across like a person with a sense of responsibility and accountability and I hope you take this in the right spirit; and if a local government official is reading this, reign in the contractor's public laundry wash and you, bum, get on the forum and redress the problem. Thank you.

Posted on: 2009/11/8 0:59
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I am a government servant living in downtown Jersey City though not part of the local or the state government. JOGI comes across as a decent and patient person, having had seen his approach in addressing concerns aired on this forum. His latest post, however, betrays some facts on the ground and the role of a contractor in commenting on tax payer-funded projects.

JOGI is the superintendent of the construction company of the eponymous name, correct me if he isn't, and should reasonably be aware that the taxes rendered by so-called complainants on this forum whom he paints as possessing "modest knowledge of any subject", is how he gets paid. It's not a conveniently phrased "local government"-- perhaps half of whom seem adept at pilferering public money and are now undergoing judicial scrutiny--that pays him. It's outrageous a contractor airs mocking comments vis-a-vis tax payers! This usually is the case when accountability is eroded in local governance. JOGI's sincerity could do with a dose of realism, first: own up the less-than-professional sidewalk construction. It's a civic betrayal, sir, to present the taxpayer with amateur construction, and none on this forum need knowledge of what a good job looks and feels like.

JOGI was way off line to blame listers, divving them into the genuine and not-so-genuine questioners. One need not have a degree in government to understand how government works. A flop show exposes itself.

That JOGI tackled unsafe vaults is not the issue, if he didn't, he should be fired; that he did, is part of the paid contract, and a pat on the back. The issue is "fancy cross walks", as he phrases it. I am sure JOGI must have seen the elderly or children in strollers or the handicapped crossing Jersey Avenue at the Mercado Park, for instance. Today, at 8.45 am, when the cross light was green, a girl had to rush across the street where the painted cross walk might have been, as a car, oblivious of the signal, swerved towards her. A cross wall empowers the pedestrian, re-assuring to whatever degree it can the sense of security, and right of way. Would it make a difference if the cross walk had been painted? A drunk driver wouldn't care less, but common sense says pedestrian safety is not up for debate, especially since grant money is meager!

While "fancy cross walks" are not painted, we find that no-parking zones and parking lines next to the coin meters are neatly painted within your budget! This, sir, is the local government's priority, and you are out to bat for them! Perhaps painting no-parking zones near road corners is a safety issue, but the local government doesn't think that that should be done at all road corners in downtown. The message this sends is that the local government, touting its long-life thermoplastic idiocy, wouldn't waste a day on revenue from painted parking zones, but is indifferent about pedestrian safety. "Interjection of truth", indeed. Someone said that one act of real usefulness is worth all the abstract sentiment in the world. You, sir, do come across like a person with a sense of responsibility and accountability and I hope you take this in the right spirit; and if a local government official is reading this, reign in the contractor's public laundry wash and you, bum, get on the forum and redress the problem. Thank you.

Posted on: 2009/11/6 23:02
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JOGI wrote:
It seems there are two types of people on this board, those who have genuine concerns or questions and those who search for any oppurtunity to complain or showcase their modest knowledge of any subject as if they are an expert. I'll address the former of the two.

All the crosswalks will be "painted" or more specificly, striped with long life thermoplastic. Some may have the fake brick effect but unfortunately not as many as the city had hoped they would be able to do. The money was budgeted but I'll explain it so it is understood. If you were the city and you had $250,000, would you repair unforseen dangerous sidewalk vaults or would you drop it all on some fancy crosswalks and hope for the best? Every project has comprimises and JC does their best to get as much as possible from the various grants given to them whether it be from the NJDOT, The UEZ, or the federal government. The image of them as bumbling idiots or wasteful is fairly amusing and statements to this end are mostly born from an ingnorance of the facts.

I am beginning to understand why this forum is so seldom visited by people with actual knowledge of city government. It serves a legitamate purpose and I dont want people to have to look for another outlet due to my interjection of truth. So, like I had said earlier, if anyone has any questions I'll be more than happy to answer them in person on the street.

You may now proceed with your bashing......


Erie Street was repaved six months ago and half the intersections are still missing ANY style crosswalk. Yet some intersections have received the Cadillac of Crosswalks before at least striping each street corner. How many basic crosswalks could the city have striped for the price of a single faux brick crosswalk?

Posted on: 2009/11/6 14:23
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It seems there are two types of people on this board, those who have genuine concerns or questions and those who search for any oppurtunity to complain or showcase their modest knowledge of any subject as if they are an expert. I'll address the former of the two.

All the crosswalks will be "painted" or more specificly, striped with long life thermoplastic. Some may have the fake brick effect but unfortunately not as many as the city had hoped they would be able to do. The money was budgeted but I'll explain it so it is understood. If you were the city and you had $250,000, would you repair unforseen dangerous sidewalk vaults or would you drop it all on some fancy crosswalks and hope for the best? Every project has comprimises and JC does their best to get as much as possible from the various grants given to them whether it be from the NJDOT, The UEZ, or the federal government. The image of them as bumbling idiots or wasteful is fairly amusing and statements to this end are mostly born from an ingnorance of the facts.

I am beginning to understand why this forum is so seldom visited by people with actual knowledge of city government. It serves a legitamate purpose and I dont want people to have to look for another outlet due to my interjection of truth. So, like I had said earlier, if anyone has any questions I'll be more than happy to answer them in person on the street.

You may now proceed with your bashing......

Posted on: 2009/11/6 12:47
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keep it classy, jc. Start a job you can't afford to finish....Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
Yes, there is an explanation. According to DPW didn't bother allocating funds for crosswalk painting when they contracted the paving jobs. They had been siphoning money from future jobs to pay for crosswalks where they repaved the streets but then decided to stop that. Maybe in next year's budget there will be an item in the budget for crosswalks, but good luck crossing the street until then. I contacted Councilman Fulop about the missing crosswalks, and he got the answers from the DPW.

In short: the DPW is grossly incompetent at fulfilling the basic tasks assigned to the department.

Posted on: 2009/11/5 19:02
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Yes, there is an explanation. According to DPW didn't bother allocating funds for crosswalk painting when they contracted the paving jobs. They had been siphoning money from future jobs to pay for crosswalks where they repaved the streets but then decided to stop that. Maybe in next year's budget there will be an item in the budget for crosswalks, but good luck crossing the street until then. I contacted Councilman Fulop about the missing crosswalks, and he got the answers from the DPW.

In short: the DPW is grossly incompetent at fulfilling the basic tasks assigned to the department.

Posted on: 2009/11/2 17:17
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Is there any explanation for WHY certain crosswalks have not yet been painted and when that will be done? It's as if they got tired of painting and walked away!!!

Posted on: 2009/11/2 16:21
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What is sort of amazing is how long it takes to do a mediocre job. If Newark Avenue was part of a private development it would have been completed in 1/3 the time.

Also, probably wouldn't have painted yellow lines in the wrong parts of the street only to shave off the fresh layer of pavement.

Posted on: 2009/11/1 23:00
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Why couldn't the city force the owners of these buildings to allow trees? They were trying to pull the eminent domain card to build the paseo but they couldn't force the tree issue? What kind of building owner is against trees on the strip? One would think that a nice street scape would bring more business and in turn allow them to charge higher rents. Very short sighted!!!

Also, the concrete job they did on the side walks looks like Sh1t. Very sloppy job, you can see all the swirl marks and every 50 yards or so it looks like they just slopped the concrete down without even smoothing it out. What's the deal here people?

Posted on: 2009/10/31 20:20
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probably longer that the trees. did you see the soil that those maples were planted into? sandy clay. those bushes will be fine.

Posted on: 2009/10/31 3:27
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T-Bird wrote:
From Steve Fulop's quarterly update letter:

Newark Avenue Streetscape

... Still to be planted and placed mainly from Grove Street to Erie are 15 smoke bush trees, 4'-5' high planted in 48" diameter by 36" high concrete planters. Finally, there will also be 3 red maples 4" dia., 16'-18' high planted at Mercado Park in 5' x 5' tree pits which have already been installed. ....


I guess that means no Maple trees in the ground, between Grove and Barrow. I wonder how long the bushes in planters will live.

Posted on: 2009/10/30 21:24
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Thanks for the updated post T-Bird. Thats awesome that a "phase III" is in the works. That part of Newark ave (Coles up through the turnpike) does really need help especially the pavement.

Posted on: 2009/10/30 20:29
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Re: Newark Avenue StreetScape
Home away from home
Home away from home


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2009/6/21 17:57
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2013/6/27 3:00
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It's really great to see this coming along!

Posted on: 2009/10/30 14:42
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