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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Steve Fulop calls for Chief Troy to resign, yet he offers no solution to the problem of crime. It kind of makes you wonder what Mr. Fulop is really looking for? If Mr. Fulop had offered any kind of solution or idea of how to go about curbing crime and violence I might have found some creditability to his statement,unfortunately it is abundantly clear the only true motive behind Mr.Fulops press release was his own personal aspirations for higher office, He does not have the best intrests of his constituents at heart that is crystal clear by his press release. By issuing his statement without solutions only demoralizes the whole police department and calls into question his motives behind the statement. If he had the best interests of his constituency at heart he would have researched possible solutions or ideas and put those ideas forward in his press release.Unfortunately, he chose not to which simply put indicates were his priorities lie.He is grandstanding inorder to advance his political career and those of his friends rather then having the best intrests of those who supported him, how very sad.

Posted on: 2006/1/27 15:09
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Troy - quoting a newspaper article - attributed a spike in violent crimes to a "confluence of disturbing trends in New Jersey and other states," namely the rise of gangs and gun violence.>>

That's so irritating. "It's not our fault!"

The Morgan Quitno "Safest Cities" ratings show Jersey City at 299 (out of a possible 369). Elizabeth is 244. Paterson is 231. Dover is 15. Brick is 5. New York City is 148 and of course that includes the Bronx. (The higher the score, the less safe the city.)

Why is Jersey City in effect twice as dangerous as NYC?

As Fulop suggests -- somebody is to blame. JCPD at best deserves a "D" grade. Who's at fault?

As for blaming Fulop for JCPD's morale, that is absurd. Wretched equipment (cars that are held together by duct tape and computers that don't work), dilapidated facilities (leaking roofs, basements that flood, walls that are falling down), and a police promotional hierarchy based on who you know, not what you know, have already decimated JCPD morale. Note: I don't blame this on Troy; this started before he was born. But it is preposterous to blame Fulop for JCPD's lackluster performance.

Posted on: 2006/1/27 14:59
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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7 SIDE WITH TROY

Fulop notes all seven ran with Healy, rips chief anew

Friday, January 27, 2006

By KEN THORBOURNE

THE JERSEY JOURNAL

Jersey City Police Chief Robert Troy is doing a bang-up job in eyes of seven of the nine City Council members - despite 39 murders last year, the most since 1982.

The Troy backers went public with their "wholehearted support" for the police chief of 15 months at the council's Wednesday night meeting, the same day Ward E Councilman Steven Fulop called for Troy to step down.

Reading from a letter signed by every council member except Fulop and Ward F Councilwoman Viola Richardson, Ward D Councilman William Gaughan said: "Realizing the complexity of the duties of the chief of police, (we) wish to express our wholehearted support for Chief Robert Troy.

"We realize crime does not exist in a vacuum. We further understand there are societal and economic factors which impact crime totals."

In front of roughly 15 attendees at the meeting - many of whom told their own tales of brushes with gunfire and dope dealers - Fulop noted that those who signed the letter all ran on Mayor Jerramiah Healy's ticket in May.

"I resent that, Steve," Ward A Councilman Michael Sottolano shot back. "I'm independent."

Fulop stuck to his guns, saying serious crime in the city has been trending upwards, a fact police acknowledged in a budget hearing held earlier this month.

"At some point someone has to be accountable," Fulop said. "Numbers don't lie."

In a three-page letter submitted to The Jersey Journal, Troy wrote that Fulop's words "not only undermine the public's confidence in the Police Department, but also negatively affect the morale of the men and women who comprise the Jersey City Police Department."

Noting that the department has hired 150 new officers, Troy - quoting a newspaper article - attributed a spike in violent crimes to a "confluence of disturbing trends in New Jersey and other states," namely the rise of gangs and gun violence.

? 2006 The Jersey Journal

? 2006 NJ.com All Rights Reserved.

Posted on: 2006/1/27 14:29
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Yes, if Councilman Fulop's letter to Mayor Healy, which we are waiting for him to post as agreed here, makes a constructive case for replacing Chief Troy and improving public safety. I will support it and generate letters of support to Mayor Healy et al. and of course also post it here on jclist. My skepticism is based on the lack of constructive content in his press release.

There are many issues where I am in full agreement with Councilman Fulop's position such as the Embankment and the need for a full time city council. However, I also have concerns that his political ambitions and related grandstanding can also jeopordize accomplishing these and other goals. It is very important to be selective when picking ones battles.


Quote:

glx wrote:
Quote:

DanL wrote:
Councilman Fulop,

Please post the actual letter to Mayor Healy, as you stated you would in your post. This will allow people to judge for themselves as to whether this was hypocritical political grandstanding or whether you have put forth constructive ideas and solutions to the issues related to Jersey City crime and that you have discussed your ideas and solutions with Police Chief Troy and that he has been unresponsive.


What I don't get is why you'd phrase it like that. Let's say he posts the letter and it's constructive - you'll find a way to claim it's destructive and it would probably be an obvious attempt to politicize this in the opposite direction. If it is constructive, are you really going to back off and say "wow, OK, that was constructive, I was wrong. Keep up the good work!"?

I doubt it.

Posted on: 2006/1/26 19:12
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Quote:

Pisces1979 wrote:
....What were we talking about...o yes, Mr. Fulop wants the mayor to fire the police chief.

....Hmmm..... if I was Mr. Fulop, I would suggest a replacement police chief, hold up a resume of some succesful cop and say to the assembled press corps "this is your new police chief".

Otherwise if Steve doesn't offer something more concrete it makes Mr. Fullop the "loyal opposition".

Terrible analogy.
Everyone, including Fulop, is saying that the police should be LESS politicized. By him choosing a replacement, it becomes politicized.

A police chief for a large city is usually picked by an independant selection committee, or internally by merit. It shouldn't be up to a Councilman or any other position in legislative government to be picking a chief for law enforcement. That's how we got to where we're at.

Posted on: 2006/1/26 15:42
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Quote:

Nuada wrote:
Putting aside the personnel question vis a vis Chief Troy...I support what Steven Fulop is doing here because it says two big things:

o Crime is impacting QOL for JC residents. (In places like NYC crime is down.) I'm hearing more and more complaints, from people downtown, around Lincoln Park, and of course in Greenville.

o The government's actions and inactions do indeed impact the crime rate.

The helpless, passive remarks by some JC pols ("we're not as bad as Trenton") are the problem. Smart, good policing and govt should impact crime rates.

A third problem, also touched on by Fulop's call, is the pervasive politicization of the police hierarchy. This goes back at least to Hague -- see Thomas Fleming's book, Mysteries of My Father , http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471 ... s=books&v=glance&n=283155

All that said, I do not know enough about Troy to want his head or not want it. In a way, that is a secondary issue because Fulop is highlighting the primary issues:
o Soaring crime rates
o We can and should act
o Politics don't belong in policing.

What's not to like about that?

Oh...anybody interested in the past who hasn't read Fleming's book should. It's a marvelous informal history of JC under Hague.



A logical, thoughtful, high quality posting. I'll be sure to check out the book. Thank you.

Posted on: 2006/1/26 14:33
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Posted on: 2006/1/26 13:57
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Putting aside the personnel question vis a vis Chief Troy...I support what Steven Fulop is doing here because it says two big things:

o Crime is impacting QOL for JC residents. (In places like NYC crime is down.) I'm hearing more and more complaints, from people downtown, around Lincoln Park, and of course in Greenville.

o The government's actions and inactions do indeed impact the crime rate.

The helpless, passive remarks by some JC pols ("we're not as bad as Trenton") are the problem. Smart, good policing and govt should impact crime rates.

A third problem, also touched on by Fulop's call, is the pervasive politicization of the police hierarchy. This goes back at least to Hague -- see Thomas Fleming's book, Mysteries of My Father , http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471 ... s=books&v=glance&n=283155

All that said, I do not know enough about Troy to want his head or not want it. In a way, that is a secondary issue because Fulop is highlighting the primary issues:
o Soaring crime rates
o We can and should act
o Politics don't belong in policing.

What's not to like about that?

Oh...anybody interested in the past who hasn't read Fleming's book should. It's a marvelous informal history of JC under Hague.


Posted on: 2006/1/26 13:42
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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... Looks like the low-carb craze is over....

....What were we talking about...o yes, Mr. Fulop wants the mayor to fire the police chief.

....Hmmm..... if I was Mr. Fulop, I would suggest a replacement police chief, hold up a resume of some succesful cop and say to the assembled press corps "this is your new police chief".

Otherwise if Steve doesn't offer something more concrete it makes Mr. Fullop the "loyal opposition".

They have the "loyal opposition" in Russia.
Sort of like how the mayor of Moscow occasionally "critisizes" President Vladimir Putin, but everyone knows that the Mayor of Moscow is really subserviant to Putin, and merely "Critisizes" the President at certain times to legitimatize Putin's rule.

If you want to be the Mayor, then you gotta start acting like you have already been elected.

Posted on: 2006/1/25 23:30
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Quote:

shipwreck1 wrote:
I'm stil confused...if they DO give me work, do I have to refuse the bread? I mean, surely this work has a lunch break. Otherwise, I quit. Which, I think means that I then get the bread. Actually, a wrap would be nice...

What if they gave you work in a bakery? You could still have the bread when they weren't looking. But remember, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless...skip it.

Posted on: 2006/1/25 23:16
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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My apologies to all--this is a thread about the ineffectiveness of the current oversight of our police force.
The discussion I had hoped to spur with the "Robo Cop" reply (shame that in 2006 we still don't have a designated font for sarcasm...) was that the JCPD need to get out of their cars, walk the beat, get to know who belongs and who doesn't, and beocme more pro-active.
This has consistently proven to be a turning point in cleaning-up high-crime areas (New York City, Baltemore, etc.)

Now about that bread...

Posted on: 2006/1/25 23:11
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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I'm stil confused...if they DO give me work, do I have to refuse the bread? I mean, surely this work has a lunch break. Otherwise, I quit. Which, I think means that I then get the bread. Actually, a wrap would be nice...

Posted on: 2006/1/25 22:55
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Quote:

Pisces1979 wrote:
... the dealers shoot each other in the neighborhoods they live in, not the neighborhoods they work in. They are businessmen, and know that it's not a good idea to disrupt business operations.....
A bloody gangland drive by shooting in say, newport is gonna attract attention, while the dealers know the cops and business establishment only pretend to care what happens in "bad" neighborhoods. ...
Of course, the whole "war on drugs" is really a delibrate strategy orginally concieved during the cold war to distract the youth from questioning the present economic system, and to justify more facist police state measures, and economic inequality. They know that drug dealers make less than minimum wage, but with drug dealing there is always the possibility, no matter how distant, of becoming a millionaire, there is no chance of that working at mcdonald's.
... The whole strategy is to encourage gun violence and encourage the criminalization of an entire genration from trying to excercise the right to bear arms. Once "gun control" is in place, they can start chipping away at the first amendment...

"If they do not give you work, demand bread. If they deny you both, take bread. It is your sacred right!"
- Emma Goldman



Damn! I was just gonna say that!

Except the Emma Goldman thing. Those carbs would go straight to my waist.

There you go shipwreck1. There's your answer.

Posted on: 2006/1/25 22:48
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Ahhhh....it all makes sense now. And me without my tin-foil hat.
Quote:

Pisces1979 wrote:
... the dealers shoot each other in the neighborhoods they live in, not the neighborhoods they work in. They are businessmen, and know that it's not a good idea to disrupt business operations.....
A bloody gangland drive by shooting in say, newport is gonna attract attention, while the dealers know the cops and business establishment only pretend to care what happens in "bad" neighborhoods. ...
Of course, the whole "war on drugs" is really a delibrate strategy orginally concieved during the cold war to distract the youth from questioning the present economic system, and to justify more facist police state measures, and economic inequality. They know that drug dealers make less than minimum wage, but with drug dealing there is always the possibility, no matter how distant, of becoming a millionaire, there is no chance of that working at mcdonald's.
... The whole strategy is to encourage gun violence and encourage the criminalization of an entire genration from trying to excercise the right to bear arms. Once "gun control" is in place, they can start chipping away at the first amendment...

"If they do not give you work, demand bread. If they deny you both, take bread. It is your sacred right!"
- Emma Goldman



Posted on: 2006/1/25 22:24
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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... the dealers shoot each other in the neighborhoods they live in, not the neighborhoods they work in. They are businessmen, and know that it's not a good idea to disrupt business operations.....
A bloody gangland drive by shooting in say, newport is gonna attract attention, while the dealers know the cops and business establishment only pretend to care what happens in "bad" neighborhoods. ...
Of course, the whole "war on drugs" is really a delibrate strategy orginally concieved during the cold war to distract the youth from questioning the present economic system, and to justify more facist police state measures, and economic inequality. They know that drug dealers make less than minimum wage, but with drug dealing there is always the possibility, no matter how distant, of becoming a millionaire, there is no chance of that working at mcdonald's.
... The whole strategy is to encourage gun violence and encourage the criminalization of an entire genration from trying to excercise the right to bear arms. Once "gun control" is in place, they can start chipping away at the first amendment...

"If they do not give you work, demand bread. If they deny you both, take bread. It is your sacred right!"
- Emma Goldman



Posted on: 2006/1/25 22:11
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Quote:
shipwreck1 wrote:

Now I'm confused. I live in Greenville--we don't have Yuppies OR stuff. But we do have crime. Seems like a hole in the theory...


That's a good point. When god was handing out Yuppies, you thought he said Puppies and everybody knows Puppies don't have anything except cuteness and yips.

I'll have to consider this new development.

Posted on: 2006/1/25 20:38
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Now I'm confused. I live in Greenville--we don't have Yuppies OR stuff. But we do have crime. Seems like a hole in the theory...

Posted on: 2006/1/25 20:33
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Quote:

e-eff wrote:
Quote:

Pisces1979 wrote:
Also, I believe the yuppies are indirectly responsible for the increase in crime. The wealthy manhattan people have a taste for coke, and now the dealers over here don't have to go to manhattan for their customers because their customers now live in downtown and newport.


HERE WE GO AGAIN... Get over it man


Well, now wait a minute, Pisces1979 may be on to something here.

What do you need for crime? You need stuff. And who has stuff? Yuppies.

QED

Posted on: 2006/1/25 20:22
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Quote:

Pisces1979 wrote:
Also, I believe the yuppies are indirectly responsible for the increase in crime. The wealthy manhattan people have a taste for coke, and now the dealers over here don't have to go to manhattan for their customers because their customers now live in downtown and newport.


I'd like a diet coke with a twist right about now. Where's my damn dealer?


Posted on: 2006/1/25 20:22
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Quote:

Pisces1979 wrote:
Also, I believe the yuppies are indirectly responsible for the increase in crime. The wealthy manhattan people have a taste for coke, and now the dealers over here don't have to go to manhattan for their customers because their customers now live in downtown and newport.


HERE WE GO AGAIN... Get over it man

Posted on: 2006/1/25 20:15
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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JERZE wrote:
Fulup if anyone should RESIGN it should be you. who do you think you are asking the Chief to Resign.
He is doing his best with the Low number of Police Officers in this big city we live in.
And when the force gets to where he needs it to be it we will be a better city
And also MR FULUP what would be your way of making crime go down,should we hire ROBO COP
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK CHIEF TROY
DON'T LET THIS YUPPIE LOVER GET TO YOU


I find it interesting that the majority of your 6 posts have been YUPPIE BASHING. The AREA is CHANGING! There is a large emerging part of the population that is upwardly moblie. Get rid of your class envy and move on.

And your cop comments are off base. . .even healy admitted that increasing the number of police officers on the street would not make it a better city.

Posted on: 2006/1/25 19:55
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Numbers do lie. Statistics can be manipulated.
For example:
In NYC the police chiefs "cook the books" on compstat to keep the crime rate low. Also, the NYPD makes it harder to report crimes, and mis-reports felonies as minor crimes.
I am sure every police department does this.

Also, I believe the yuppies are indirectly responsible for the increase in crime. The wealthy manhattan people have a taste for coke, and now the dealers over here don't have to go to manhattan for their customers because their customers now live in downtown and newport.

Posted on: 2006/1/25 19:53
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Wait...is Robo Cop an option? Because that would RULE! Robo Cop doesn't take any gruff...and he isn't too lazy to get out of his car and actually walk a neighborhood (something I have never seen JCPD do).

Posted on: 2006/1/25 19:52
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Fulup if anyone should RESIGN it should be you. who do you think you are asking the Chief to Resign.
He is doing his best with the Low number of Police Officers in this big city we live in.
And when the force gets to where he needs it to be it we will be a better city
And also MR FULUP what would be your way of making crime go down,should we hire ROBO COP
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK CHIEF TROY
DON'T LET THIS YUPPIE LOVER GET TO YOU

Posted on: 2006/1/25 19:23
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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It would be nice to see crime go down. I would like to see the Mayor do something....about ...anything!

Gina
Steve Fulop for Mayor!

Posted on: 2006/1/25 17:35
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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I love Healy's quote in the artice about Trenton. Great. That's why I plan to vote for him, because we are not as bad as Trenton. After it gets a little worse, we won't be as bad as Camden. Then we won't be as bad as Mexico City. Good Times.

Posted on: 2006/1/25 17:22
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Back to the subject of this thread-

I called it a "crime problem", because it is a loose statement and is not crime always a problem?

Quote:

Skadave wrote:
Danl: You put the words crime problem in quotes. I am not trying to be nitpicky but I was wondering if you knew something that we didn't.


Yes, we need a public safety initiative and plan to make Jersey City a measurably safer place to live, work and visit; enforcing criminal ordinances and reducing criminal incidents.

We need NYC Comstat type measurement tools for not only accountability but also accurate assesment of what is actually occuring.

Most people believe strongly in community policing and want Jersey City to return to it.

I am not an expert, though I believe our Councilman should be optaining expert advice on this issue.


****************

An aside -

There is a seperate thread discussing "Steve Fulop's First X Days" where his accomplishments were discussed. Though, it would be better if it was not filled with "I like Steve Fulop" or "Steve Fulop is doing a great job", but with material deeds and actions related to being councilman. Someone else can revive the thread and I would be glad to post that he has moved the dog run / pet free areas initiative forward (if he had not, no one else would have), he correctly assessed and explained the 40% proposed municipal tax when others on jclist.com believed it smaller, he has opposed most tax abatements (but clearly there are policies that need to be examined) and helped with the railroad abandonments ordinance. Others can add more.

There is a seperate thread discussing a call for Mayor Healy to resign. This would be a good place to discuss his deeds and actions not only as Mayor but Councilman, since the thread on the municipal tax increase was not titled well. His "flipski" abatement policy, his efforts (or lack of) to reign in and establish accountability (and profitability) in the Parking Authority and Muncipal Utilities Authority (water). His being lukewarm on preservation and open space issues. What the Mayors public safety plan is if there is one.

Lastly, I cannot see how attacking me, personally will help dealing with the public issues and problems facing Jersey City today. But if it does help, please feel free to continue.

Posted on: 2006/1/25 15:38
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
#14
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Quote:

rory_bellows wrote:
Fulop for Mayor!

This guy is great, really. I'm continually impressed by the dedication and effort he puts forth. Its great to have someone working for us who shakes things up and gets things done, and his accessibility and transparency is commendable.

Keep up the good work.


I C O N C U R !!!!!! FULOP HAS MY VOTE! HE HEARD THE CRIES OF JC RESIDENTS WITH RESPECT TO THE GALLERY NIGHT CLUB ON MARIN BLVD AND HE MOVED TO HAVE THE PLACE SHUT DOWN! YEA!!!

FULOP FOR MAYOR!!!

Posted on: 2006/1/25 14:58
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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[quote]
DanL wrote:

Solely, calling for the Police Chief's resignation is not a solution, next Fulop will be calling for Mayor Healy's resignation which is not a solution..... nor would recalling Fulop be a solution (as many do suggest on the www.getnj.com message board).



Unless I was reading the wrong message board, I counted a whopping one person calling for Fulop's resignation on the www.getnj.com message board, and that was most likely yourself. True, there were not many people on that message board that are fans of Fulop, that's for sure. But what I read were rather angry and unintelligent posts by people who believe that if you didn't grow up in JC than you should have no say in JC politics and shouldn't be posting on "their" message board. Clearly the "old school" when it comes to local politics. The fact that Fulop is pissing these characters off only makes me support him more.

Posted on: 2006/1/25 14:54
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Re: Fulop Calls for Resignation of Police Chief Robert Troy
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Danl: You put the words crime problem in quotes. I am not trying to be nitpicky but I was wondering if you knew something that we didn't.

Posted on: 2006/1/25 14:49
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