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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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inmates- NO
convicts- YES

Posted on: 4/18 18:47
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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The constitution gives people the right to bear arms, but we don't allow inmates to bear arms while they are incarcerated.

I don't think inmates should be allowed to vote, but they 100% should be allowed to vote once they have finished their sentence or are on parole.

Posted on: 4/18 15:29
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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Still not an excuse for abridging a constitutional right. It's an orthogonal point at best, a red herring at worst.

Posted on: 4/18 13:21
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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papadage wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
Here's the more obvious question - why is Senator Cunningham even bothering with this B.S. ? This is another case of cart before the horse.

Voter turnout among people who actually are allowed to vote in the USA is abysmal - around 55% in national elections (49% in the 1996 presidential election!). Even less in local elections that don't run concurrently with national elections - Jersey City mayoral and city council races of 25, 30% if we're lucky. Former mayor Healy loved the low turnout because it's exactly what kept him in office for three terms. When turnout went up a few percentage points more in 2013, it was enough to get him out of office. School board elections? Unless they are concurrent with some other election, fuhgeddaboudit.

If turnout is so pitiful among people with clean background checks, can you imagine the turnout among people who have felonies on their record, can't find jobs and some of whom (not all) are contemplating a return to crime? This whole effort is a total waste of time and won't bring very many more people to the polling stations.

Rather than focusing on something that will do nothing, politicians and their constituents should be focusing on increasing voter turnout in this country and strive for the 70 to 80% levels that Canada and Europe have had (maybe not quite that high now but I can assure you both places are still significantly higher than the United States). Then we reach the voter turnout levels we should be having, that's when this issue should be addressed. Of course no politician is going to make an effort toward such a goal unless it increases their own chances of being elected.

Canada and Europe don't criminalize such a huge number or people we do. Even China and Iran don't.


But for the people in the USA, Canada and Europe who actually can vote, the voter turnout rates are by far the lowest in the USA. Voter turnout is only measured by people who are eligible to do it. Furthermore, I have no idea whether convicted criminals in Canada or Europe can vote.

Posted on: 4/17 22:42
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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caj11 wrote:
Here's the more obvious question - why is Senator Cunningham even bothering with this B.S. ? This is another case of cart before the horse.

Voter turnout among people who actually are allowed to vote in the USA is abysmal - around 55% in national elections (49% in the 1996 presidential election!). Even less in local elections that don't run concurrently with national elections - Jersey City mayoral and city council races of 25, 30% if we're lucky. Former mayor Healy loved the low turnout because it's exactly what kept him in office for three terms. When turnout went up a few percentage points more in 2013, it was enough to get him out of office. School board elections? Unless they are concurrent with some other election, fuhgeddaboudit.

If turnout is so pitiful among people with clean background checks, can you imagine the turnout among people who have felonies on their record, can't find jobs and some of whom (not all) are contemplating a return to crime? This whole effort is a total waste of time and won't bring very many more people to the polling stations.

Rather than focusing on something that will do nothing, politicians and their constituents should be focusing on increasing voter turnout in this country and strive for the 70 to 80% levels that Canada and Europe have had (maybe not quite that high now but I can assure you both places are still significantly higher than the United States). Then we reach the voter turnout levels we should be having, that's when this issue should be addressed. Of course no politician is going to make an effort toward such a goal unless it increases their own chances of being elected.

Canada and Europe don't criminalize such a huge number or people we do. Even China and Iran don't.

Posted on: 4/17 20:51
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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There is when people try to dispute actual constitutional rights. It's crazy, ignorant.. or, she's lying.

Posted on: 4/17 20:50
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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As usual the whole "forum" concept eludes a lot of people. I don't care about anyone's actual opinion, I just think they should be able to express it without (too much) abuse.
I mean the occasional "you're a nut" or "what's wrong with you" might be ok, but beyond that is just ignorant (in my opinion, lol).

And there is no shortage of misinformation in these forums, so that's not an excuse for abuse either.

Posted on: 4/17 19:45
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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Here's the more obvious question - why is Senator Cunningham even bothering with this B.S. ? This is another case of cart before the horse.

Voter turnout among people who actually are allowed to vote in the USA is abysmal - around 55% in national elections (49% in the 1996 presidential election!). Even less in local elections that don't run concurrently with national elections - Jersey City mayoral and city council races of 25, 30% if we're lucky. Former mayor Healy loved the low turnout because it's exactly what kept him in office for three terms. When turnout went up a few percentage points more in 2013, it was enough to get him out of office. School board elections? Unless they are concurrent with some other election, fuhgeddaboudit.

If turnout is so pitiful among people with clean background checks, can you imagine the turnout among people who have felonies on their record, can't find jobs and some of whom (not all) are contemplating a return to crime? This whole effort is a total waste of time and won't bring very many more people to the polling stations.

Rather than focusing on something that will do nothing, politicians and their constituents should be focusing on increasing voter turnout in this country and strive for the 70 to 80% levels that Canada and Europe have had (maybe not quite that high now but I can assure you both places are still significantly higher than the United States). Then we reach the voter turnout levels we should be having, that's when this issue should be addressed. Of course no politician is going to make an effort toward such a goal unless it increases their own chances of being elected.

Posted on: 4/17 19:36
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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Brewster said,"...it took you only 5 posts to come to the truth about Yvonne!. She's terrifying.
So commenting on a post is terrifying? What kind of sheltered life do you live? It is called the First Amendment.

Posted on: 4/17 16:01
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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brewster wrote:
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D_Nasir_McClain wrote:
The scariest thing I have gotten out of this exchange is the fact that you do have the right to vote. You are clearly a part of the upper echelon of the uninformed, do not understand how the basics of government work and seem to be an ardent denier of facts even when placed at your feet. With all due respect, at the present moment you are far more dangerous to our society than any convicted felon having the right to vote.


Congrats, it took you only 5 posts to come to the truth about Yvonne!. She's terrifying.

On the other point, you seem to not know there are vast numbers of US workers who do not normally get paid on holidays. And that ignores the increasing numbers of "gig" or self-employed. Your idea is simplistic, reminds me of all the healthcare arguments from people who have always gotten it through work and have no understanding of what it costs.


On the other point, you seem to not know there are vast numbers of US workers who do not normally get paid on holidays.
*** This one is NOT up to employers choice. What I am putting forth by law workers are able to take the day unpenalized regardless of voting or not, if you vote you get paid so obviously it is in your best interest to perform your civic duty.

And that ignores the increasing numbers of "gig" or self-employed.
*** Am I wrong in surmising that you or someone close to you is a "gig" worker, which is why that point is so near and dear to you. Simply put, I haven't mentioned gig workers because they do not fit into any part this. One of the benefits of being 1099 is that your time is your own. You work when you want, you budget your time for completing whatever job(s) you've taken on. The polls open at 6 am get your ass up to go vote, figure it out. The gig workers have no excuse not to participate time or monetary related other than "I don't want to". It may sound harsh but ultimately it is the truth.

our idea is simplistic, reminds me of all the healthcare arguments from people who have always gotten it through work and have no understanding of what it costs.
*** This is quite a personal attack to which I am not going to respond with negativity because I enjoy your opposing opinion and would like to keep that going on other topics as well. However, I will say this... I wouldn't say things like this from the comfort of Hamilton Park not knowing the life of the person on the other side of the keyboard/monitor. Brew, if ever you want I can take you on a tour of a life of poverty which I am quite certain you wouldn't believe existed in the United States let alone New Jersey give or take 4 miles away from the beauty of Hamilton Park.

Posted on: 4/17 11:24
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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D_Nasir_McClain wrote:
The scariest thing I have gotten out of this exchange is the fact that you do have the right to vote. You are clearly a part of the upper echelon of the uninformed, do not understand how the basics of government work and seem to be an ardent denier of facts even when placed at your feet. With all due respect, at the present moment you are far more dangerous to our society than any convicted felon having the right to vote.


Congrats, it took you only 5 posts to come to the truth about Yvonne!. She's terrifying.

On the other point, you seem to not know there are vast numbers of US workers who do not normally get paid on holidays. And that ignores the increasing numbers of "gig" or self employed. Your idea is simplistic, reminds me of all the healthcare arguments from people who have always gotten it through work and have no understanding of what it costs.

Posted on: 4/16 23:51
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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[quote]
Yvonne wrote:
D_Nasir_McClain, only voters can run for office. If you are a nonvoter but not a criminal, you cannot run for office. So in prison, it would be easy to get petitions to be placed on the ballot. It would be a mockery of the system.

***Please stop, you are wrong again. Ones status as a votes has no bearing on the ability to run for elected office. The issue as to whether a convicted felon can run for office varies by state some enforce or some do not.

In terms of the ridiculous scenario you put forth with prisoners holding office (I almost couldn't stop laughing while typing that nonsense) that would be impossible. Let's say the sum of all your "fears" were to happen and an inmate somehow successfully got themselves on a ballot and the somehow managed to win an election, they could never hold the position as by the nature of incarceration they wouldn't be able to fulfill the duties and obligations of said position which is the basic requirement of all elected offices.

The scariest thing I have gotten out of this exchange is the fact that you do have the right to vote. You are clearly a part of the upper echelon of the uninformed, do not understand how the basics of government work and seem to be an ardent denier of facts even when placed at your feet. With all due respect, at the present moment you are far more dangerous to our society than any convicted felon having the right to vote.

Posted on: 4/16 21:47
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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D_Nasir_McClain, only voters can run for office. If you are a nonvoter but not a criminal, you cannot run for office. So in prison, it would be easy to get petitions to be placed on the ballot. It would be a mockery of the system.

Posted on: 4/16 18:37
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

D_Nasir_McClain wrote:
[quote]
For some, not voting is their way of protesting the choice of candidates in a race for office, i.e. all the Bernie supporters who just couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillbilly, I mean Hilary,


Yes, that worked out well for them. Grown-ups hold their nose and vote for the least bad candidate rather than stay home like petulant children.

The problem with your "holiday" idea is that increasing numbers of Americans do not hold traditional "jobs" at all. The gig economy and numerous low paid jobs do not give paid holidays, so you're taking a day's pay from them.


*** I think you may have misinterpreted something here. I'm not taking anything away from "low paid jobs", if you take the day and vote... you get paid. If you don't plan on voting then don't take the day. I'm not shutting down the country for a day. I am quite certain the market will set itself where companies will offer staff what I think would be two floating holidays to those who vote and still come in and only one for those who do not vote but come in.

Posted on: 4/16 17:56
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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[quote]
Yvonne wrote:

D_Nasir_McClain, the 26th amendment was passed in 1971 and I was already out of high school. That happened to lowered to voting age from 21 to 18 due to the Vietnam War.

**The catalyst is irrelevant, the 26th made voting a RIGHT to all citizens 18 years of age and over... its the last vote related amendment after a century or so of many. FYI, I only say the 26th Amendment because it was the last one not to say voting hadn't already been a RIGHT, just using the 26th because it covers all citizens in the current interpretation of citizenship.

People who vote also have the right to run for office. I don't think people want murders and drug dealers on the ballot.

**Ummmm, if the people vote for them... then that is exactly who they wanted on the ballot. Isn't that how voting works or did I miss something?

Protecting the right to vote is similar to protecting anything we enjoy such as paved roads even if you don't own a car. The first ten amendments are our natural rights and even convicts have those rights.

** I don't even know what to do with this paved road analogy however "The first ten amendments are our natural rights and even convicts have those rights " are you saying the US constitution only consist of the "Bill of Rights", if you believe that I'd say you graduated from high school way, way before 1971 given that the 11th Amendment came along in 1795. In all seriousness, every amendment in the constitution is a RIGHT who ever/ where ever you obtained that other perspective from... never speak to them again as you have been led astray.

Just an FYI, In general, the first ten amendments, known collectively as the Bill of Rights, offer specific protections of individual liberty and justice and place restrictions on the powers of government. The majority of the seventeen later amendments expand individual civil rights protections.

***cannot take credit for the FYI, it is an excerpt taken from one of my old constitution law books***

Posted on: 4/16 17:43

Edited by D_Nasir_McClain on 2019/4/16 17:58:19
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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D_Nasir_McClain, the 26th amendment was passed in 1971 and I was already out of high school. That happened to lowered to voting age from 21 to 18 due to the Vietnam War. People who vote also have the right to run for office. I don't think people want murders and drug dealers on the ballot. Protecting the right to vote is similar to protecting anything we enjoy such as paved roads even if you don't own a car. The first ten amendments are our natural rights and even convicts have those rights.

Posted on: 4/16 16:43
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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D_Nasir_McClain wrote:
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For some, not voting is their way of protesting the choice of candidates in a race for office, i.e. all the Bernie supporters who just couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillbilly, I mean Hilary,


Yes, that worked out well for them. Grown-ups hold their nose and vote for the least bad candidate rather than stay home like petulant children.

The problem with your "holiday" idea is that increasing numbers of Americans do not hold traditional "jobs" at all. The gig economy and numerous low paid jobs do not give paid holidays, so you're taking a day's pay from them.

Posted on: 4/16 16:39
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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user1111 wrote:
Voting should be mandatory for all citizens of the USA not just for the unformed and rich.


I understand your thought however forcing someone to vote is actually "Anti-American" and completely goes against our brand of democracy. For some, not voting is their way of protesting the choice of candidates in a race for office, i.e. all the Bernie supporters who just couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillbilly, I mean Hilary, sorry. I think (and please share your thoughts) we should actually incentivize participation wherein "Voting Day" is a National Holiday therefore all everyone has the day off but employers should only be required to pay if an employee can prove exercising their civic duty something like jury duty.

Posted on: 4/16 15:44
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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Yvonne wrote:
I had civics in high school, voting is a privilege not a right. It is similar to having a license.


I would either that school district should be sued or maybe you were absent the day the XXVI Amendment was covered in class. Here's an abridged but very accurate synopsis "The Twenty-Sixth Amendment provides, “The right of citizens of the United States, who are 18 years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state on account of age.” It prohibits states from discriminating among voters based on age, for people who are at least 18 years old, and grants Congress power to “enforce” that prohibition through “appropriate legislation.” The Twenty-Sixth Amendment is the last in a series of amendments enacted over more than a century expanding constitutional protection for voting rights. Like many other amendments, it was enacted as a direct repudiation of a U.S. Supreme Court ruling".

Posted on: 4/16 15:30
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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Voting should be mandatory for all citizens of the USA not just for the unformed and rich.

Posted on: 4/14 12:03
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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papadage wrote:
either you are lying, or your civics teachers were terrible.


Why not both! Welcome to 21st century America, where voting is a privilege but assault rifles are a right.

Personally I do not have a problem with the currently incarcerated having their franchise temporarily suspended as part of their loss of freedom and rights. It's the states that have permanent loss to those who have served their time that is very disturbing.

Posted on: 4/11 16:47
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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If you are in prison and own property, do your property taxes get suspended? What about income taxes on investment income?

Not the norm, but there certainly are people who fall into this category.

Posted on: 4/11 16:40
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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While in jail, or on probation/ parole, I don't think they should be able to vote. You lose a lot of rights and privileges once your convicted. After they have completed their sentence then they should have all rights and privileges restored.

The problem is with the way the current judicial system works, a fair number of people end up losing their rights for no reason other than overzealous prosecutors.

Posted on: 4/11 15:44
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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And the Trumpy shit for brains arguments start.

Posted on: 4/11 13:59
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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I did not know that there were constitutional amendments protecting the right to drive.

When felons can't vote, people who those in power don't want to vote are made int felons. Lots of terrible sentencing guidelines and mandatory sentences, and uneven enforcement.

People like you should not get the right to call themselves American.

And either you are lying, or your civics teachers were terrible.

Posted on: 4/11 13:59
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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hero69 wrote:
i don't necessarily see why inmates should be disenfranchised


Of course not. The whole objective of the left is vote buying. Why do you think there is no longer support for border security? They want to let in people who will vote democratic.

Posted on: 4/11 11:45
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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I had civics in high school, voting is a privilege not a right. It is similar to having a license.

Posted on: 4/11 0:12
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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Only because they are scum that need to be removed from society. You don’t get convicted for a felony because your a great roll model.

Posted on: 4/10 23:37
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Re: Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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i don't necessarily see why inmates should be disenfranchised

Posted on: 4/10 22:48
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Should inmates be allowed to vote?
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Should inmates be allowed to vote?

Cunningham legislation would void an 1844 law

State Sen. Sandra Cunningham sought support from the Jersey City municipal council at the March 27 meeting for a bill she and state Sen. Ronald Rice Sr. are sponsoring that would allow New Jersey prison inmates, parolees, and those on probation — as many as 94,000 people — to vote.

State election laws prohibit inmates as well as those on probation and parole from voting. Cunningham believes these people are being disenfranchised. The bill she is sponsoring would allow them to register to vote, as part of an effort to rehabilitate them and prepare them for return to society.

While most European countries allow inmates to vote, in America only Maine and Vermont do. Voting rules are regulated by each state, not the federal government.

https://hudsonreporter.com/2019/04/10/ ... mates-be-allowed-to-vote/


Posted on: 4/10 20:01
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