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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Home away from home
 
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Dear Esp-
In comparison to JP II and Francis, Benedict moved decisively against priest abusers . Again, this comparative. Benedict was not a raging St. Damian which is what the church seems to need. Btw, I don't undrstand your animus against Catholic liturgy and dogma, nor your strongly felt feelings about inter mural conversations in Catholicism concerning the nature of dogma and worship. Are you a contemporary nun, perhaps? Or a lay person in charge of some "renewal." Or a recovering Catholic? Anyone looking at Catholicism knows that, even more than in most religions, tradition is a crucial concept. It is fundamental that Catholics believe that Divine Revelation came to an end in the Apostolic Age, and that the job of the Church is to preserve this revelation and explicate it- but never to change it. (See, for example, Newman, The Development of Doctrine). In fact, most Christians, including Protestants and Orthodox, probably agree with this statement. Anyway, anyone coming from your perspective with a kind of hysterical hatred of Christianity, should be overjoyed at the incredible auto demolition of the Catholic church. However, I fear that the world will find that it is not better off without the Church. See for example, Stark, Rodney, Bearing False Witness. http://www.baylorisr.org/2016/10/28/i ... -against-catholic-church/ Yours, Mao
Posted on: 2018/9/5 14:15
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Home away from home
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41. ?Lead A Child Astray? You?d Be Better Off Drowned!? ? Jesus Matthew 18:6 ?But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! ? 10 ?See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.? ?How we treat children matters to God? Jesus had used a small child, (who knows, it may even have been a female), to teach his disciples a basic lesson about the Kingdom of God. The relatively insignificant social status of a child challenged pride and commended humility. The child then became a vehicle for designating his followers whether young or old. To harm one of ?these little ones? was to court the judgement of God. The Law of the Kingdom of God is love; love towards God and love towards others. To offend against that Law in any form is to incur God?s just judgement. To practice harm to any, especially children, ? for in the Bible they are recognized as belonging to that group of vulnerable people who deserve particular care and protection ? is to offend grievously against the One who has a special regard for the vulnerable. In fact, it is, as Jesus said, better to be plunged heavily weighted into the sea, than to face the justice of the God who is Love, for being cruel to a child. Harry Goodhew
Posted on: 2018/9/5 14:01
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Quote:
There is a sermon about corrupting the 'little one." As I said before, a housing cleaning is in order.
Posted on: 2018/9/5 13:52
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Home away from home
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As an outsider, I truly hadn't realize that dogma dictates how to cover for criminals within the church. Can you point to which of Christ's sermons covers such doctrine?
Posted on: 2018/9/5 13:04
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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I am always amused when non-Catholics try to dictate to Catholics changes in their doctrine or dogma that they say will improve the Church they do not attend. Particularly when it comes to Catholics dealing with the criminal activities within their own church. I liken it to democrats ?helping? republicans improve their image and become a better republican party.
I am not dismissing the right of anyone to publicly express an opinion or criticize any institution. At times I would love to sarcastically dismiss their opinions by saying ?You wouldn?t understand, it?s a Catholic thing? but I find the use of that colloquial phrase offensive to any rationally thinking person. Arresting and prosecuting these men is paramount? all the other steps to cleanse the Church is the responsibility of the Catholic laity because the clergy have failed us repeatedly. And all the clergy participating in the moral outrage need to go? especially those covering it up. The starting point is back to basics with the orthodox church doctrine? laity can have all the public discourse they want, but if they are ultimately not happy with the church, they need to consider leaving. This is the schism this scandal has created? and it ultimately comes down to one?s own conscience and relationship with God. All this coming from a ?lapsed Catholic?.
Posted on: 2018/9/5 12:23
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Here is an article of men, priests caught in a lewd act, one of the men came here from Columbia. If you remember, gay men in Columbia were thrown out of seminaries there but came to the US becasue we are "liberals." Then ther are issues of child porn. Deny it all you want to but, here is facts. Homosexual men have entered theseminaries. It does not matter who they have sex with, either men or minors. I will not back away from the truth, To copy your sentence, the church is full of homosexual men who are sexually active with men and minors. A house cleaning is in order.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new ... o-shuttered-program-69513
Posted on: 2018/9/5 10:44
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Church full of doddering assholes that covers for abuse attracts a doddering worshiper that does the same.
Posted on: 2018/9/5 2:59
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Not too shy to talk
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https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-de ... se-in-the-catholic-church
@ Mao - we can ask you the same. Why the selective outrage on your part? You basically praise Benedict, call him a "genius" while you've raged at Francis? And Benedict was apparently protecting his brother, also a priest You are being disingenuous. As an ultra-conservative Tridentine-Mass Catholic, you seem as outraged about Vatican 2 as you are about the child abuse scandal, and seemingly using the latter as an excuse to get rid of a progressive pope you do not like. Your selective outrage is hypocritical. Because the fact is Benedict, Francis, John Paul, they were all complicit, morally corrupt in putting power and the institution over children and their flock. The Catholic church is a non-taxed, "non-profit" institution whose 'mission' is supposedly the psychological and emotional welfare of its flock above riches & power. Yet in practice it has too often been about the power and riches. Pope Francis seems to be less about the riches and pomp and pageantry, though maybe just as much into the power. This bothers you apparently in large part because the Tridentine Mass is much about pomp and pageantry.
Posted on: 2018/9/4 22:46
Edited by esp123 on 2018/9/4 23:04:24
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Here is the problm papadage, sure attack the Church not the gay men who created the problem. This reminds of an article I read some years ago after Obama got rid of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Apparently, rapes against men by men are on the rise in the military. It is time the gay community hold gay men accountable for their actions. Every sex act is an indivudual act. The Church is absolutely wrong for covering it up but there would be no need for a cover up if the crime did not happen first. http://www.courant.com/news/connectic ... sault-20161129-story.html
Posted on: 2018/9/4 22:30
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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I couldn't care about either of them. The Church as a whole is complicit in this. The entire hierarchy is criminal.
Every pope. Every cardinal. Every bishop. Anyone who helped cover this up should be in prison.
Posted on: 2018/9/4 21:34
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Well I think that Papdage overstates it a little.
However, why the outrage against Benedict but not Francis? Francis has been identified credibly as having been hoisted on the universal church by a self proclaimed mafia, the leader of whom is McCarrick, an admitted pedarast and homosexual predator. There is also a very credible charge that Francis reversed Benedict's sentence on McCarrick and instead gave McCarrick tremendous power- a kingmaker who chose Tobin, Cupich etc. One needs to be able to see distinctions. Benedict was not heroic or anything. But he did better than anyone else. Certainly, better than JP II who, for this reason, cannot be considered a saint. Here's a NYer article. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-de ... se-in-the-catholic-church Or if you want to wade in forter, this a fairly reliable stude. //www.amazon.com/Pope-Benedict-Sexual-Abuse-Crisis-ebook/dp/B007QXIYRK/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1536095750&sr=1-1&keywords=Pope+Benedict+and+the+sexual+abusence? Bunson did a book on it. Why do you think there is a lack of outrage and concern about Francis? Perhaps just fatigue from Catholic scandal?
Posted on: 2018/9/4 21:24
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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McCarrick was removed only after the public found about about the abuses and cover up, you despicable person. God have mercy on your shriveled soul.
What about the entire hierarchy that covered it up with McCarrick, you ass?
Posted on: 2018/9/4 21:13
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Benedict did remove McCarrick. There is a gay subculture in the Vatican and they protect each other.
Posted on: 2018/9/4 20:47
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Full on Bullshit since Benedict didn't once lifta finger to remove priests that had been shielded for decades.
The RCC is rotten tot he core.
Posted on: 2018/9/4 20:43
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Thanks for posting that Jersey Mom. As incriminating and unacceptable as the respones of Bergoglio has been (To demand silence, to refuse to answer, to denounce whistleblowers), the media and cultural elite are, for the most part, going along with it! It seems like it might work.
At lease we'll never have to endure another visit by him on US soil since he would expose himself to arrest for having been an accessory to McCarrick's crimes. To ESP213 and others, while there is a traditionalist vs progressive aspect to the scandal, there have been sexual misconduct on both sides. Fr. Maciel and the Legionaires were noted for their staunch orthodoxy and discpline. It turned out to be a massive platform for Maciel's sexual and hallucinogenic adventures. John Paul II loved Maciel and lauded him. Benedict on day I, sent him packing. In every respect, Benedict was working toward purifiying the CHurch which is probably why he was forced to abdicate.
Posted on: 2018/9/4 19:57
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Posted on: 2018/9/4 19:37
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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During his homily at his first morning Mass at Santa Marta since the summer break, Pope Francis recommended ?silence and prayer? when one is confronted ?with people lacking good will, with people who only seek scandal, who seek only division, who seek only destruction, even within the family: silence, prayer.?
?The truth is meek. The truth is silent. The truth is not noisy," Pope Francis said in his homily. Truth?
Posted on: 2018/9/4 16:16
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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I guess you missed the part where I said some are brave enough to speak honestly. I did give the names of Bishops Molina and Robert Barron. Cardinal Tobin of Newark has his priests under total silence when 6 of them contacted the press. Then there is Archbishop Vigan? who came forward that he told the pope about McCarrick and how Pope Benedict basically had him under house arrest but Francis restored those privileges. That is being honest.
Posted on: 2018/9/4 16:05
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Home away from home
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The bishops are speaking honestly? The fact that bishops are even speaking at all comes after DECADES of hidden abuse, shuffling priests and billions paid in legal settlements.
Posted on: 2018/9/4 15:37
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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What you call bias I call truth. It is also the truth coming from bishops who are brave enough to speak honestly.
Posted on: 2018/9/4 15:16
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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And we return to the same bias and make no point.
Like I said - awful person - the worst. Quote:
Posted on: 2018/9/4 15:13
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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The majority of the victims are teen males, in the 80% range. The seminarians who are raped are all males. So this is a homosexual problem. It is not nuns raping these teens and adult men.
Posted on: 2018/9/4 14:29
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Home away from home
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Quote:
This is not just a church problem Stop setting up straw men that can easily be knocked down. No one is arguing that the Catholic church has a monopoly on predation of children. The church problem is decades of covering up, turning a blind eye, moving well known predators from parish to parish, corruption, caring more about the predators than the children, acting anything but Christ-like....and billions of dollars in legal liability.
Posted on: 2018/9/4 13:56
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Home away from home
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I don't know where you've been for the last year, but these behaviors aren't limited to homosexuals... If you wanted to argue that there is a pervasive problem with toxic masculinity across men that drives these behaviors... Yeah... I could see your point. What do you think the #metoo movement is? The implications are pansexual - Corey Feldman is #metoo.
Why the focus on homosexuality... Why are you so obsessed? You love to use this bais that is berating to members of your/our community. I don't know how to get through your thick skull that bad behavior in this world is independent of labels. For example - I think you're an awful person - the worst actually. I also happen to know you're a senior citizen, woman, straight married, and Catholic. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of others that fall into all the same categories, but I don't use my free will to think they are all awful people. Quote:
Posted on: 2018/9/4 1:53
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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I do not buy your argument, because the sexual predators who raped boys also raped teenagers and adult seminarians. It is convenient to say one group pedophilia, stays in that group. It might to easier to intimidate a child over an adult but these predators abused minors and adults. I don't buy the argument. This is not just a church problem as I mentioned before, it is also happening in Hollywood according to former child actor Corey Feldman.
Posted on: 2018/9/4 1:05
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Ha - I haven't been on here in a while... But knew this topic would draw out pure Yvonne gold!
I'd like to think that within our shared moral compass we can consistently agree that: -a sexaul relationship with a minor is abhorrent - using one's power in the work place for sexual favor is unacceptable - systemically covering up all the above is damning All of which have nothing to do with homosexuality. Predators and rapist are exactly that and we know the Catholic Church is good at fostering environment that allows them to flurish. Calling homosexuality the problem is just irresponsible and incorrect. How do expect to detect if a priest is gay and do you know that ones currently in positions of power are not just really good a hiding it? Glad to hear you were so 'progressive' at some point in time. Quote:
Posted on: 2018/9/4 0:54
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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Saying homosexual men should not be priests due to the sex scandals has nothing to due with me. These statements are now coming from people inside the Catholic Church such as bishops and priests and people involved in seminary training. If I was asked this question 20 or 30 years ago, I would say it does not matter but now I realize it does matter.
Posted on: 2018/9/4 0:32
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My comment wasn't meant to be an insult. Just my opinion. Though there is more than anecdotal evidence that people who lean homophobic often struggle with their own sexual orientation. Yvonne's position that homosexuality is a disorder is indicia of homophobia. Which I believe is a sign of inner self loathing.
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Posted on: 2018/9/4 0:17
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Typical political move of a real scoundrel... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ac ... t/?utm_term=.187369cf7a64 In Boston 20 years ago The Globe Spotlight Team identified St. John's Seminary as a commonality where most of the criminal priests were ordained... even identified time period of the mid sixties. My family was relieved when our priest ended up on the Globe List... an anomaly, he was sexually assaulting a grown woman parishioner at another parish.
Posted on: 2018/9/3 11:40
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Re: Our Lady of Czestochowa Downtown Sex Abuse...
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?Then Cain said to the Lord, ?My punishment is greater than I can bear. I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth and whoever finds me will kill me.? - Genesis 4:13
Posted on: 2018/9/3 3:14
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