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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Jersey City council punts on Polish statue, sending issue to voters
Updated Sep 12, 10:12 PM; Posted Sep 12, 7:50 PM

“City Clerk Robert Byrne told the council at its Tuesday caucus that a special election would cost the city more than $200,000 minimum.”

https://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... olish_statue_sending.html

Posted on: 9/13 11:23
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Interestingly, I saw petitioners again today outside of city hall.

They told me "they're trying to move the statue for a million
dollars!" Boy, Yun and Platta spent a lot on training....

Anyone know why the petitions are still out there?

Posted on: 8/30 16:48
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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T-Bird wrote:
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TheBigGuy wrote:
We need a local issue draw out the mid-term election voters in November.


And the Katyn monument is that issue? That is one steaming hot take, my friend.

Are you sure you want to drive up turnout locally? Guessing from previous citations of Alex Jones, I'd think you are looking for the other six JC republicans to show up. Probably more of the folks who turn out to vote no on Katyn are angry with Fulop from the left than the right.


I suspect the people who care about the Katyn monument for its own sake skew conservative. But a lot of the people who got involved in this are doing in order to object to how the mayor handled this or because they object to any measure he takes. The latter category includes both the left and the right.

Posted on: 8/17 11:38
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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TheBigGuy wrote:
We need a local issue draw out the mid-term election voters in November.


And the Katyn monument is that issue? That is one steaming hot take, my friend.

Are you sure you want to drive up turnout locally? Guessing from previous citations of Alex Jones, I'd think you are looking for the other six JC republicans to show up. Probably more of the folks who turn out to vote no on Katyn are angry with Fulop from the left than the right.

Posted on: 8/17 9:08
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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TheBigGuy wrote:
We need a local issue draw out the mid-term election voters in November.


Might be a special election! There's a late August deadline to get the language of a referendum on November's ballot and the council isn't getting presented with this until mid-September.

Posted on: 8/14 15:53
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Katyn monument won, victory for the people.
https://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... u.html#incart_river_index


You do understand that nothing has really changed, right? The council could still decide to move forward with this by putting it up for a referendum. I hope they do.


Wasn't a referendum vote the objective outside of keeping the monument in place? Clearly the anti-move people had already lost to Fulop and the CC. We need a local issue draw out the mid-term election voters in November.

Posted on: 8/14 12:39
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Katyn monument won, victory for the people.
https://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... u.html#incart_river_index


You do understand that nothing has really changed, right? The council could still decide to move forward with this by putting it up for a referendum. I hope they do.

Posted on: 8/14 10:48
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Katyn monument won, victory for the people.
https://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... u.html#incart_river_index


Not asking for a third-party to review these signatures all of a sudden?

In all honesty, I'm not really surprised they could get 6,000 signatures. But now I guess we'll see if it just gets overturned or it goes to referendum.

Posted on: 8/14 9:41
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Posted on: 8/13 19:29
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Dolomiti wrote:
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light12v wrote:
I Did Read His Response, Completely...

Apparently not. It's not that complicated.


Quote:
so that I might understand WHY he believes what he states here.

I don't believe it. I'm illustrating that Yvonne is a hypocrite, and that her irrational ad hoc rationalization blew up in her face.

OK, to review: This thread is no longer about the Katyn Monument staying at Exchange Place or going, or individuals expressing their positions regarding such....and instead has digressed to fixation on Yvonne's posts being dissected & challenged by her JCList *fans*.

So, What is YOUR POV on the current Katyn/Exchange Place controversy and same day Newark Pedestrian Plaza expansion ?


Posted on: 8/13 10:10
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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light12v wrote:
I Did Read His Response, Completely...

Apparently not. It's not that complicated.


Quote:
so that I might understand WHY he believes what he states here.

I don't believe it. I'm illustrating that Yvonne is a hypocrite, and that her irrational ad hoc rationalization blew up in her face.

Posted on: 8/12 19:09
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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light12v wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

light12v wrote:
WHY Dolomiti ??

Seriously? You can't figure this out?

Yvonne is saying that I do not have the right to make any changes to any existing public policy. But if I don't have the right to advocate for any changes, then neither does she.

I.e. I'm illustrating that her position is irrational and hypocritical. It went over her head, of course, because she's behaving irrationally and hypocritically. So it goes.


I figure this out as it proceeds, based upon All of the Shitstorm Sideshows going on in or about JC in these times and a Pacer account.

My Question to you is Only about your text words that I have converted to Bold.......so again, I am asking you WHY ???

I already answered your question.

Posted on: 8/12 19:06
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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oreoz wrote:
Quote:

light12v wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

light12v wrote:
WHY Dolomiti ??

Seriously? You can't figure this out?

Yvonne is saying that I do not have the right to make any changes to any existing public policy. But if I don't have the right to advocate for any changes, then neither does she.

I.e. I'm illustrating that her position is irrational and hypocritical. It went over her head, of course, because she's behaving irrationally and hypocritically. So it goes.


I figure this out as it proceeds, based upon All of the Shitstorm Sideshows going on in or about JC in these times and a Pacer account.

My Question to you is Only about your text words that I have converted to Bold.......so again, I am asking you WHY ???


Dude - read his response. He literally told you why he said that. He's not saying he agrees with that - he's just using Yvonne's argument and applying it to her actions as well, therefore highlighting its hypocrisy.

If you're not going to read the whole thread I don't blame you, but at least read his response to you.

And Yvonne - most people here aren't condoning the mayor's behavior. At the same time, his behavior doesn't suddenly change our opinion on the topic like it apparently has yours. Going back to the beginning of this thread you were one of those pushing to have it removed..why was that? Oh, something about how other countries' history doesn't belong in America...and yet you accuse the mayor of insulting an entire ethnic group. Which, by the way...when did he do that? Sure, he insulted someone Polish (if you want to understand why, read about the Holocaust law in Poland). Was it right? No - it was a false argument tactic. But so is your argument that calling a person from a specific culture racist is akin to insulting that entire ethnic group. That's the same crap logic that sees moving this statue (a move supported by the Polish speaker!) as some sort of affront to Poland.

I Did Read His Response, Completely...wherein he questioned my seriousness, my ability to figure it out, & further made several statements that I asked him to explain by highlighting one to start with. so that I might understand WHY he believes what he states here.

I don't really give a shit about his ongoing pissing contest with Yvonne....just want to understand His POV.

Posted on: 8/11 17:16
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Quote:

light12v wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

light12v wrote:
WHY Dolomiti ??

Seriously? You can't figure this out?

Yvonne is saying that I do not have the right to make any changes to any existing public policy. But if I don't have the right to advocate for any changes, then neither does she.

I.e. I'm illustrating that her position is irrational and hypocritical. It went over her head, of course, because she's behaving irrationally and hypocritically. So it goes.


I figure this out as it proceeds, based upon All of the Shitstorm Sideshows going on in or about JC in these times and a Pacer account.

My Question to you is Only about your text words that I have converted to Bold.......so again, I am asking you WHY ???


Dude - read his response. He literally told you why he said that. He's not saying he agrees with that - he's just using Yvonne's argument and applying it to her actions as well, therefore highlighting its hypocrisy.

If you're not going to read the whole thread I don't blame you, but at least read his response to you.

And Yvonne - most people here aren't condoning the mayor's behavior. At the same time, his behavior doesn't suddenly change our opinion on the topic like it apparently has yours. Going back to the beginning of this thread you were one of those pushing to have it removed..why was that? Oh, something about how other countries' history doesn't belong in America...and yet you accuse the mayor of insulting an entire ethnic group. Which, by the way...when did he do that? Sure, he insulted someone Polish (if you want to understand why, read about the Holocaust law in Poland). Was it right? No - it was a false argument tactic. But so is your argument that calling a person from a specific culture racist is akin to insulting that entire ethnic group. That's the same crap logic that sees moving this statue (a move supported by the Polish speaker!) as some sort of affront to Poland.

Posted on: 8/11 15:54
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

light12v wrote:
WHY Dolomiti ??

Seriously? You can't figure this out?

Yvonne is saying that I do not have the right to make any changes to any existing public policy. But if I don't have the right to advocate for any changes, then neither does she.

I.e. I'm illustrating that her position is irrational and hypocritical. It went over her head, of course, because she's behaving irrationally and hypocritically. So it goes.


I figure this out as it proceeds, based upon All of the Shitstorm Sideshows going on in or about JC in these times and a Pacer account.

My Question to you is Only about your text words that I have converted to Bold.......so again, I am asking you WHY ???

Posted on: 8/11 15:14
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Here is the point, the mayor has no right to denigrate/ disparage an ethnic group. That is something jclist members are ignoring. Furthermore, he should have reached out to the committee in the beginning instead of announcing this move. Fulop was a bully in this matter, plain and simple. This city elected a mayor, not a dictator.

Posted on: 8/11 14:55
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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light12v wrote:
WHY Dolomiti ??

Seriously? You can't figure this out?

Yvonne is saying that I do not have the right to make any changes to any existing public policy. But if I don't have the right to advocate for any changes, then neither does she.

I.e. I'm illustrating that her position is irrational and hypocritical. It went over her head, of course, because she's behaving irrationally and hypocritically. So it goes.

Posted on: 8/11 13:57
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Dolomiti, the Katyn monument has been there for over 30 years, if you were here, then you had the opportunity to speak at the city council meeting that you did not want it. If you came later, then you moved into a city that already had the statue and chose to stay.

Yeah, you might want to rethink that.

You had the opportunity to speak against the pedestrian plaza on Newark. It happened anyway. By your own logic, you should just accept it, and give up any future opportunity to reverse it.

You had the opportunity to speak against moving the statue. It happened anyway. By your own logic, you should just accept it, and forsake any future opportunity to reverse this decision.

You had the opportunity to vote for someone other than Fulop. He was properly elected as Mayor. You had your shot, it didn't go your way, and by your own logic you should quietly and humbly accept the consequences... and not complain.

P.S. You didn't answer my question. Why am I not surprised.


WHY Dolomiti ??

Posted on: 8/11 13:45
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Your response is illogical, you don't like the statue, that is your problem. I don't like the mayor attacking an ethnic group on a radio program. As a citizen, I felt it was embarrassing to the city. But I am sure, when Fulop runs for higher office, those comments will come out. And people outside the city will be wondering why he is mayor and why people like you are defending him.

Posted on: 8/6 23:31
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Yvonne wrote:
Dolomiti, where are the by-laws here that says, I must respond to what you say? I gave you my statement.

No one said you have to respond to me. You chose to do so, of your own free will. And I chose to point out that a) your response is illogical, and b) your response did not answer my question.

And in case you missed the sarcasm: Your ad hoc rationalization does not work. Period.

I mean, really. Read your own statement. You're saying I don't have the right to any opinion about anything in the city. If something was decided before I moved here? I have no say. If something was decided after I moved here? I still have no say. But, of course, you and anyone who agrees with you are not bound by this requirement.

Nuts to that. I have the same right to express my opinion as you, and any other resident of this city. I don't lose that right because you don't like what I have to say.

Posted on: 8/6 19:59
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Dolomiti, where are the by-laws here that says, I must respond to what you say? I gave you my statement. If you were here before the statue was up, you had the opportunity to voice your complaint to city hall, but after it was up, well, too bad, it is here. You made you choice to live here and the statue is part of the landscape.

Posted on: 8/6 19:29
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Bike_Lane wrote:
The statue will have a nice prominent location and there will be a nice park at ExPl. Who can be upset about that?

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Posted on: 8/6 19:29
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Yvonne wrote:
Dolomiti, the Katyn monument has been there for over 30 years, if you were here, then you had the opportunity to speak at the city council meeting that you did not want it. If you came later, then you moved into a city that already had the statue and chose to stay.

Yeah, you might want to rethink that.

You had the opportunity to speak against the pedestrian plaza on Newark. It happened anyway. By your own logic, you should just accept it, and give up any future opportunity to reverse it.

You had the opportunity to speak against moving the statue. It happened anyway. By your own logic, you should just accept it, and forsake any future opportunity to reverse this decision.

You had the opportunity to vote for someone other than Fulop. He was properly elected as Mayor. You had your shot, it didn't go your way, and by your own logic you should quietly and humbly accept the consequences... and not complain.

P.S. You didn't answer my question. Why am I not surprised.

Posted on: 8/6 19:25
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Update on the issue. The city council passed this on July 14, 2018 at 2:00 PM. The mayor signed this ordinance on the 15th. The petitioners had 20 days to get signatures. Naturally, they thought the 20 days started on the 16th, the day after the ordinance was passed but the city clerk said the 20 days started on the 14th, basically the city took 2 days away to gather signatures. Now this group has turned in 5,000 additional signatures and said 1,100 signatures the city turned down are valid. The law requires 5 days for the city clerk to check these signatures. The clerk has now filed a petition in the court claiming he needs more time. He wants until August 13th. So this is government under Fulop, steals 2 days from the petitioners yet plead to the court for more time to do their job. Double standards as usual.

Posted on: 8/6 8:43
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Thank you Yvonne for wasting our elected officials collective time and our tax dollars to begin to review a second petition of what is likely to consist of fake names to oppose a statue from being moved one block of the waterfront to one block south due to your personal vendetta against our current mayor. I'm glad your speaking for NJ on behalf of everyone here.

Maybe when you attempt to lead the effort for the 3rd petition you should ask those that sign the petition to offer a donation to pay for that 3rd party to review the fake signatures (per your suggestion) as opposed to the tax payers.

Posted on: 8/6 1:09
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I like the statue. I was upset when I heard it was going to be moved to the middle of Montgomery St. After all of the fracas, and the plan changed to move it to the foot of York St., I found that to be a good compromise.

The statue will have a nice prominent location and there will be a nice park at ExPl. Who can be upset about that?

Posted on: 8/5 12:04
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Dolomiti, the Katyn monument has been there for over 30 years, if you were here, then you had the opportunity to speak at the city council meeting that you did not want it. If you came later, then you moved into a city that already had the statue and chose to stay.

Posted on: 8/5 10:28
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Yvonne wrote:
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slim26 wrote:
This is really one of the dumbest battles I've ever heard of. Surprised how much time is collectively wasted on this effort which will ultimately fail.

It's not like they are demolishing the hideous statue - 1 frigged over.

Hilarious.


Actually, you are right, my opinion does not matter, but the people who signed these petitions do matter as a group. A black veteran who signed the petition was upset that the mayor would move a war memorial. His opinion counts.

So does mine.

I'm not upset. It's an ugly and gruesome statue. I am 100% fine with it being moved and/or replaced.

Should his opinion matter more than mine? Nope. We're equals, we both get an equal say, both our opinions weigh the same. So why are you crediting his opinion more than mine?

Posted on: 8/5 10:16
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Well, nicky, I guess you have not heard me speak before the city council. I have brought up the MUA. For the record, I got involved in this due to Mayor Fulop. He was on the radio attacking the Polish people. No mayor, in the history of JC, has ever attacked an ethnic group. He accused the Polish government of adding Nazis Germany during the 2nd world war. He accused the people of being in denial. Then the called out the Speaker of the House in Poland. Fulop's behavior is an embarrassment. Futhermore, he did not meet with the people who placed that statue there. By the way, it was late Jaime Vazquez, the Puerto Rican councilman who helped the Polish community place the statue there. If he was alive, I am sure he would be in the forefront of keeping the statue there.

Posted on: 8/5 9:58
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slim26 wrote:
This is really one of the dumbest battles I've ever heard of. Surprised how much time is collectively wasted on this effort which will ultimately fail.

It's not like they are demolishing the hideous statue - 1 frigged over.

Hilarious.


Seriously - why doesn't Yvonne seem to care about real issues, like the waste in the MUA or for pushing for a more sensible reval system? Because that would involve logic and numbers, two things she does not understand and fears, so she reverts to this cultural war nonsense in one of the most liberal cities in the country. What a ridiculous waste of time this entire issue has been.

Posted on: 8/5 9:29
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