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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
 
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No one is saying "get rid of it." Just move it 200 feet to an equally prominent space that will be accompanied by additional parks.
Posted on: 2018/9/25 18:41
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Newbie
 
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2018/9/25 15:46 Last Login : 2018/9/30 10:48 From Belgium, Brussels
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Eh, it does look grotesque, but I feel that it's somehow appropriate. I mean, it catches one's attention and looks as violent as what it's commemorating.
If I were to choose, I'd let the monument be. Some people don't like it ; tough shit, some people didn't like the Eiffel Tower and wanted it gone as well.
Posted on: 2018/9/25 16:22
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Jersey City council punts on Polish statue, sending issue to voters Updated Sep 12, 10:12 PM; Posted Sep 12, 7:50 PM ?City Clerk Robert Byrne told the council at its Tuesday caucus that a special election would cost the city more than $200,000 minimum.? https://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... olish_statue_sending.html
Posted on: 2018/9/13 15:23
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Interestingly, I saw petitioners again today outside of city hall.
They told me "they're trying to move the statue for a million dollars!" Boy, Yun and Platta spent a lot on training.... Anyone know why the petitions are still out there?
Posted on: 2018/8/30 20:48
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I suspect the people who care about the Katyn monument for its own sake skew conservative. But a lot of the people who got involved in this are doing in order to object to how the mayor handled this or because they object to any measure he takes. The latter category includes both the left and the right.
Posted on: 2018/8/17 15:38
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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And the Katyn monument is that issue? That is one steaming hot take, my friend. Are you sure you want to drive up turnout locally? Guessing from previous citations of Alex Jones, I'd think you are looking for the other six JC republicans to show up. Probably more of the folks who turn out to vote no on Katyn are angry with Fulop from the left than the right.
Posted on: 2018/8/17 13:08
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Might be a special election! There's a late August deadline to get the language of a referendum on November's ballot and the council isn't getting presented with this until mid-September.
Posted on: 2018/8/14 19:53
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Wasn't a referendum vote the objective outside of keeping the monument in place? Clearly the anti-move people had already lost to Fulop and the CC. We need a local issue draw out the mid-term election voters in November.
Posted on: 2018/8/14 16:39
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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You do understand that nothing has really changed, right? The council could still decide to move forward with this by putting it up for a referendum. I hope they do.
Posted on: 2018/8/14 14:48
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Not too shy to talk
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Not asking for a third-party to review these signatures all of a sudden?  In all honesty, I'm not really surprised they could get 6,000 signatures. But now I guess we'll see if it just gets overturned or it goes to referendum.
Posted on: 2018/8/14 13:41
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Katyn monument won, victory for the people.
https://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... u.html#incart_river_index
Posted on: 2018/8/13 23:29
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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OK, to review: This thread is no longer about the Katyn Monument staying at Exchange Place or going, or individuals expressing their positions regarding such....and instead has digressed to fixation on Yvonne's posts being dissected & challenged by her JCList *fans*. So, What is YOUR POV on the current Katyn/Exchange Place controversy and same day Newark Pedestrian Plaza expansion ?
Posted on: 2018/8/13 14:10
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Apparently not. It's not that complicated. Quote: so that I might understand WHY he believes what he states here. I don't believe it. I'm illustrating that Yvonne is a hypocrite, and that her irrational ad hoc rationalization blew up in her face.
Posted on: 2018/8/12 23:09
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I already answered your question.
Posted on: 2018/8/12 23:06
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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I Did Read His Response, Completely...wherein he questioned my seriousness, my ability to figure it out, & further made several statements that I asked him to explain by highlighting one to start with. so that I might understand WHY he believes what he states here. I don't really give a shit about his ongoing pissing contest with Yvonne....just want to understand His POV.
Posted on: 2018/8/11 21:16
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Not too shy to talk
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Dude - read his response. He literally told you why he said that. He's not saying he agrees with that - he's just using Yvonne's argument and applying it to her actions as well, therefore highlighting its hypocrisy. If you're not going to read the whole thread I don't blame you, but at least read his response to you. And Yvonne - most people here aren't condoning the mayor's behavior. At the same time, his behavior doesn't suddenly change our opinion on the topic like it apparently has yours. Going back to the beginning of this thread you were one of those pushing to have it removed..why was that? Oh, something about how other countries' history doesn't belong in America...and yet you accuse the mayor of insulting an entire ethnic group. Which, by the way...when did he do that? Sure, he insulted someone Polish (if you want to understand why, read about the Holocaust law in Poland). Was it right? No - it was a false argument tactic. But so is your argument that calling a person from a specific culture racist is akin to insulting that entire ethnic group. That's the same crap logic that sees moving this statue (a move supported by the Polish speaker!) as some sort of affront to Poland.
Posted on: 2018/8/11 19:54
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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I figure this out as it proceeds, based upon All of the Shitstorm Sideshows going on in or about JC in these times and a Pacer account. My Question to you is Only about your text words that I have converted to Bold.......so again, I am asking you WHY ???
Posted on: 2018/8/11 19:14
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Here is the point, the mayor has no right to denigrate/ disparage an ethnic group. That is something jclist members are ignoring. Furthermore, he should have reached out to the committee in the beginning instead of announcing this move. Fulop was a bully in this matter, plain and simple. This city elected a mayor, not a dictator.
Posted on: 2018/8/11 18:55
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Seriously? You can't figure this out? Yvonne is saying that I do not have the right to make any changes to any existing public policy. But if I don't have the right to advocate for any changes, then neither does she. I.e. I'm illustrating that her position is irrational and hypocritical. It went over her head, of course, because she's behaving irrationally and hypocritically. So it goes.
Posted on: 2018/8/11 17:57
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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WHY Dolomiti ??
Posted on: 2018/8/11 17:45
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Your response is illogical, you don't like the statue, that is your problem. I don't like the mayor attacking an ethnic group on a radio program. As a citizen, I felt it was embarrassing to the city. But I am sure, when Fulop runs for higher office, those comments will come out. And people outside the city will be wondering why he is mayor and why people like you are defending him.
Posted on: 2018/8/7 3:31
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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No one said you have to respond to me. You chose to do so, of your own free will. And I chose to point out that a) your response is illogical, and b) your response did not answer my question. And in case you missed the sarcasm: Your ad hoc rationalization does not work. Period. I mean, really. Read your own statement. You're saying I don't have the right to any opinion about anything in the city. If something was decided before I moved here? I have no say. If something was decided after I moved here? I still have no say. But, of course, you and anyone who agrees with you are not bound by this requirement. Nuts to that. I have the same right to express my opinion as you, and any other resident of this city. I don't lose that right because you don't like what I have to say.
Posted on: 2018/8/6 23:59
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Dolomiti, where are the by-laws here that says, I must respond to what you say? I gave you my statement. If you were here before the statue was up, you had the opportunity to voice your complaint to city hall, but after it was up, well, too bad, it is here. You made you choice to live here and the statue is part of the landscape.
Posted on: 2018/8/6 23:29
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2018/8/6 23:29
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Yeah, you might want to rethink that. You had the opportunity to speak against the pedestrian plaza on Newark. It happened anyway. By your own logic, you should just accept it, and give up any future opportunity to reverse it. You had the opportunity to speak against moving the statue. It happened anyway. By your own logic, you should just accept it, and forsake any future opportunity to reverse this decision. You had the opportunity to vote for someone other than Fulop. He was properly elected as Mayor. You had your shot, it didn't go your way, and by your own logic you should quietly and humbly accept the consequences... and not complain. P.S. You didn't answer my question. Why am I not surprised.
Posted on: 2018/8/6 23:25
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Update on the issue. The city council passed this on July 14, 2018 at 2:00 PM. The mayor signed this ordinance on the 15th. The petitioners had 20 days to get signatures. Naturally, they thought the 20 days started on the 16th, the day after the ordinance was passed but the city clerk said the 20 days started on the 14th, basically the city took 2 days away to gather signatures. Now this group has turned in 5,000 additional signatures and said 1,100 signatures the city turned down are valid. The law requires 5 days for the city clerk to check these signatures. The clerk has now filed a petition in the court claiming he needs more time. He wants until August 13th. So this is government under Fulop, steals 2 days from the petitioners yet plead to the court for more time to do their job. Double standards as usual.
Posted on: 2018/8/6 12:43
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Thank you Yvonne for wasting our elected officials collective time and our tax dollars to begin to review a second petition of what is likely to consist of fake names to oppose a statue from being moved one block of the waterfront to one block south due to your personal vendetta against our current mayor. I'm glad your speaking for NJ on behalf of everyone here.
Maybe when you attempt to lead the effort for the 3rd petition you should ask those that sign the petition to offer a donation to pay for that 3rd party to review the fake signatures (per your suggestion) as opposed to the tax payers.
Posted on: 2018/8/6 5:09
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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I like the statue. I was upset when I heard it was going to be moved to the middle of Montgomery St. After all of the fracas, and the plan changed to move it to the foot of York St., I found that to be a good compromise.
The statue will have a nice prominent location and there will be a nice park at ExPl. Who can be upset about that?
Posted on: 2018/8/5 16:04
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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Dolomiti, the Katyn monument has been there for over 30 years, if you were here, then you had the opportunity to speak at the city council meeting that you did not want it. If you came later, then you moved into a city that already had the statue and chose to stay.
Posted on: 2018/8/5 14:28
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Home away from home
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So does mine. I'm not upset. It's an ugly and gruesome statue. I am 100% fine with it being moved and/or replaced. Should his opinion matter more than mine? Nope. We're equals, we both get an equal say, both our opinions weigh the same. So why are you crediting his opinion more than mine?
Posted on: 2018/8/5 14:16
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