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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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great, because you are twisting it around to again smear other groups. of course, I read the article. but instead of using as a counter to illustrate the many groups that get it right, you use to smear bonafide community groups. the one in the article which portrays mostly good people who lost it and took things way too far, is an example of a group that is not well organized, does not do outreach, nor draws people in with sound by-laws, elections, term limits etc.

so you don't advocate then for pro-development because you have our current "pro-development" mayor, who defeated a "pro-development" opponent and previously defeated and succeeded a "pro-development" mayor, who succeeded a "pro-development" mayor, who succeeded a "pro-development" mayor .... not sure it means that our government's actions are solely good. and people should not organize to express a different vision or dissatisfaction or feel that their best interests are subservient to development interests.

it is a good thing (in my mind) that these groups that you continue to smear, are among the most transparent organizations in the city. and I am grateful that there are people in our city that organize and advocate honestly for what they believe in.


Quote:

dr_nick_riviera wrote:

I'm done with this thread after this reply. If you bothered to read the originally attached article, you can see the leader of the NA abused her power to smear and intimidate the very residents they claim to represent. This obviously goes both ways.

And no, I have no ties to developers or have any developer interests. I simply understand how economics and supply/demand works, which many people who run these groups and claim to be outraged by increasing costs of living do not. To say the general public would not buy in - our supposedly "pro-development" mayor won with almost 80% of the vote along with a strong city council majority. The general public made it clear which side the argument they support. You lost in a landslide, perhaps it is, in fact, possible *your* ideas are way out of step with the general public.

Once again, another smear perpetuated by these groups against people who dare disagree - anyone in favor of density must be a real estate shill. Let's not forget that by limiting the housing supply, property owners who run these groups benefit from the high property values resulting from it. And I'm not even going to get into parking.

Posted on: 8/10 23:34
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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DanL wrote:
why should anyone give you a break. you smear groups that you may not agree with it. these groups have earned credibility as being representative by organizing, having by-laws, rules, protocols, elections, terms (and some term limits). many are run better than our government (and they are mere volunteers.) there is nothing in law that gives them any power or authority. they earn it.

you can do the same and start a pro-development organization by making a commitment and doing the work. my guess is that you have a vested interest in development (but I could be wrong, I could even know you.) and the general public would not buy in.

it should not be surprising that people who mostly like their neighborhood the way it is and only wish to see moderate development and growth would commit the time to participate and work together to that end.


Quote:

dr_nick_riviera wrote:

Gimme a break, I'm not the only one here questioning how these groups operate. NIMBYs just don't like being told they are not the gatekeepers of all wisdom. Of course one of biggest NIMBYs, and also one of Jersey City's biggest losers in electoral history would be in favor of groups of self appointed know-nothings. And no, neighborhood groups are not representative democracies. That's why we have elections and vote for the city council and mayor. You of all people should know that.


I'm done with this thread after this reply. If you bothered to read the originally attached article, you can see the leader of the NA abused her power to smear and intimidate the very residents they claim to represent. This obviously goes both ways.

And no, I have no ties to developers or have any developer interests. I simply understand how economics and supply/demand works, which many people who run these groups and claim to be outraged by increasing costs of living do not. To say the general public would not buy in - our supposedly "pro-development" mayor won with almost 80% of the vote along with a strong city council majority. The general public made it clear which side the argument they support. You lost in a landslide, perhaps it is, in fact, possible *your* ideas are way out of step with the general public.

Once again, another smear perpetuated by these groups against people who dare disagree - anyone in favor of density must be a real estate shill. Let's not forget that by limiting the housing supply, property owners who run these groups benefit from the high property values resulting from it. And I'm not even going to get into parking.

Posted on: 8/10 22:12
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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why should anyone give you a break. you smear groups that you may not agree with it. these groups have earned credibility as being representative by organizing, having by-laws, rules, protocols, elections, terms (and some term limits). many are run better than our government (and they are mere volunteers.) there is nothing in law that gives them any power or authority. they earn it.

you can do the same and start a pro-development organization by making a commitment and doing the work. my guess is that you have a vested interest in development (but I could be wrong, I could even know you.) and the general public would not buy in.

it should not be surprising that people who mostly like their neighborhood the way it is and only wish to see moderate development and growth would commit the time to participate and work together to that end.


Quote:

dr_nick_riviera wrote:

Gimme a break, I'm not the only one here questioning how these groups operate. NIMBYs just don't like being told they are not the gatekeepers of all wisdom. Of course one of biggest NIMBYs, and also one of Jersey City's biggest losers in electoral history would be in favor of groups of self appointed know-nothings. And no, neighborhood groups are not representative democracies. That's why we have elections and vote for the city council and mayor. You of all people should know that.

Posted on: 8/10 21:40
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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DanL wrote:
that is pretty funny, the guy/girl who posts as a Simpsons character is calling for transparency. only in Jersey City.

those that participate, get a say, that is how representative democracy works. you want to be represented, go to a meeting. if it take three to six months for minutes to show up on a website, so be it, that is better than most including our city at times.


Gimme a break, I'm not the only one here questioning how these groups operate. NIMBYs just don't like being told they are not the gatekeepers of all wisdom. Of course one of biggest NIMBYs, and also one of Jersey City's biggest losers in electoral history would be in favor of groups of self appointed know-nothings. And no, neighborhood groups are not representative democracies. That's why we have elections and vote for the city council and mayor. You of all people should know that.

Posted on: 8/9 23:00
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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that is pretty funny, the guy/girl who posts as a Simpsons character is calling for transparency. only in Jersey City.

those that participate, get a say, that is how representative democracy works. you want to be represented, go to a meeting. if it take three to six months for minutes to show up on a website, so be it, that is better than most including our city at times.



Quote:

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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Brewster, when did I say, "we like it as it is, it works for us, nothing should change, ever". I lived on Van Vorst Park for 40 years, some good things happened and some bad things happened. Here is the bad thing: having dogs barked 3:00 am in the morning when you are trying to sleep because people consider the total park as a dog park. Another bad classic, dog owners exercising their dogs at night on the equipment and sometimes the dogs relieves themselves on the equipment. It was the reason my children did not use the playground equipment in Van Vorst Park. Some of these classic bad things came from new neighbors.


You say that in regards to just about every issue Jersey City faces, be it parking, development, the Kaytn statue, street trees, bike lanes, millennials, new businesses, mass transit etc. etc. etc.

It also looks like my post struck a nerve, the VVPA website got updated for the first time in months today. Hey VVPA board members (they 100% read this forum), maybe start posting meeting minutes again and start being transparent with your community!

Posted on: 8/9 20:39
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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dr_nick_riviera wrote:
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iGreg wrote:




You call it being salty - I call it demanding transparency from a group that claims it represents my interests and pushes polices that are against them. You would demand no different from the government.


Transparency from our government?
What dimension of reality do you live in?


hmm_the_more_cut_off_the_sharper_it_gets_p_careful_33822251


Posted on: 8/9 19:58
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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iGreg wrote:




You call it being salty - I call it demanding transparency from a group that claims it represents my interests and pushes polices that are against them. You would demand no different from the government.

Posted on: 8/9 19:43
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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Posted on: 8/9 19:26
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Brewster, when did I say, "we like it as it is, it works for us, nothing should change, ever". I lived on Van Vorst Park for 40 years, some good things happened and some bad things happened. Here is the bad thing: having dogs barked 3:00 am in the morning when you are trying to sleep because people consider the total park as a dog park. Another bad classic, dog owners exercising their dogs at night on the equipment and sometimes the dogs relieves themselves on the equipment. It was the reason my children did not use the playground equipment in Van Vorst Park. Some of these classic bad things came from new neighbors.


You say that in regards to just about every issue Jersey City faces, be it parking, development, the Kaytn statue, street trees, bike lanes, millennials, new businesses, mass transit etc. etc. etc.

It also looks like my post struck a nerve, the VVPA website got updated for the first time in months today. Hey VVPA board members (they 100% read this forum), maybe start posting meeting minutes again and start being transparent with your community!

Posted on: 8/9 18:22
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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Brewster, when did I say, "we like it as it is, it works for us, nothing should change, ever". I lived on Van Vorst Park for 40 years, some good things happened and some bad things happened. Here is the bad thing: having dogs barked 3:00 am in the morning when you are trying to sleep because people consider the total park as a dog park. Another bad classic, dog owners exercising their dogs at night on the equipment and sometimes the dogs relieves themselves on the equipment. It was the reason my children did not use the playground equipment in Van Vorst Park. Some of these classic bad things came from new neighbors.

Posted on: 8/9 17:40
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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I gotta agree the NA's vary by their leadership. When I moved to HP the NA was controlled by the dog people, the park was literally gone to the dogs, they wouldn't even allow discussion of a dog run. It was the classic Yvonne type "we like it as it is, it works for us, nothing should change, ever". They were even suspicious and negative when a new resident wanted to start a farmers market!
But the leadership changed and HPNA did a remarkable and professional job of resident inclusion on the park renovation planning.

Posted on: 8/8 22:47
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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Bread wrote:
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apparently you write whatever nonsense comes into your head.

VVPA has a website with all the dates and speakers for each meeting, emails meeting notices to the community about the meetings, has events all over the place. Meeting are held and have been for over 30 years in the same place and on the same 3rd Tuesday of the month.

Tonight a movie in the park.

I gather you live in a dank dark cave.



You mean this very website that hasn't been updated since May 10th? http://vvpa.org/

Posted on: 8/8 22:01
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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To
dr_nick_riviera
apparently you write whatever nonsense comes into your head.

VVPA has a website with all the dates and speakers for each meeting, emails meeting notices to the community about the meetings, has events all over the place. Meeting are held and have been for over 30 years in the same place and on the same 3rd Tuesday of the month.

Tonight a movie in the park.

I gather you live in a dank dark cave.


Posted on: 8/8 20:13
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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The thing to note on this is that none of those in the article are "long time" residents as Yvonne would describe. Each moved to the neighborhood from somewhere else but all have been around for over decade. This isn't a "battle" between "old guard" and "new blood".

Posted on: 8/8 12:42
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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The Hamilton Park Neighborhood Association was pretty open when I lived there several years ago. I walked into a meeting one evening, volunteered for a few things and ended up as a Trustee for a few years. Meetings were held at regular intervals and open to the public. I visited there a year or so ago to talk about the Bergen Arches Project and it seemed pretty much the same. Some familiar old faces, a bunch of new faces, but open and welcoming.

Posted on: 8/8 12:07
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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Neighborhood Associations run the gamut. VVPA requires regular elections from members unlike others where the directors just reappoint themselves. There are also term limits which requires rotation among leadership.

I no longer live in Van Vorst Park but when I did the meetings were accessible, and anyone who wanted to get involved could.

Posted on: 8/8 11:59
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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bodhipooh wrote:
I am not at all privy to the intimate details of this situation, but here is the part that surprised me most: as I am reading the article, none of it came across as hard to believe. I can 100% see some of old timer feeling slighted over an "interloper" wanting to take a more active role in the local NA, and I can see this escalating to the point of being silly/ridiculous.

The truth is that there are a lot of tensions at the local NAs between old timers and recent arrivals. Most of the stuff plays out in the form of whispering and gossiping behind people's back and subtle, passive aggressive actions. A true shame, really.


The VVPA hasn't bothered to post meeting minutes in months and is keeping the community in the dark about it's actions. They've become even more militant and adept at squelching dissent to the point where even Donald Trump would be envious. I'll repeat, these are very flawed and undemocratic organizations in need of serious reform. They should not have the outsize influence on policy that they do.

Posted on: 8/8 10:52
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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I am not at all privy to the intimate details of this situation, but here is the part that surprised me most: as I am reading the article, none of it came across as hard to believe. I can 100% see some of old timer feeling slighted over an "interloper" wanting to take a more active role in the local NA, and I can see this escalating to the point of being silly/ridiculous.

The truth is that there are a lot of tensions at the local NAs between old timers and recent arrivals. Most of the stuff plays out in the form of whispering and gossiping behind people's back and subtle, passive aggressive actions. A true shame, really.

Posted on: 8/8 9:18
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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I am there to videotape the debates, then I put them online and on Comcast. I go to different neighborhood groups. People actually email me and ask to come to their meeting for this purpose. I tape in all six wards. Get over yourself, nicky, it shows you have serious problems.

Posted on: 8/7 17:32
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
nicky, your comments are just plain evil. I have videotape debates there, that is my only connection. The mayor know these people better, so maybe he is a spawn too.


Nothing I said wasn't true. These are groups are undemocratic and comprised of self-appointed hacks. I don't doubt for a minute you still have personal connections to many neighborhood group board members and manipulate their agenda when it serves your purposes.

Posted on: 8/7 17:06
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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nicky, your comments are just plain evil. I have videotape debates there, that is my only connection. The mayor know these people better, so maybe he is a spawn too.

Posted on: 8/7 16:39
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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"It’s unclear how relations between the four soured. The men told The Jersey Journal they initially sparred with Tinia Bland over the neighborhood association, saying she runs it without input from much of the community and elects herself president without holding elections. She denied this in an interview with The Jersey Journal. The men say the Blands are homophobic. Tinia Bland denied this too.

In 2012, both sides agree, Trickel asked for a plot in the neighborhood group’s community garden and Tinia Bland said no. In 2013, Trickel and Tinia Bland ran on opposing slates to be elected committee people for the local Democratic Party. He won, she lost. Someone close to Bland said the loss "absolutely" bugged her."

This is why these worthless groups need to be abolished. They are undemocratic organizations that disregard any input that conflicts with the agenda of its self appointed board members. They only serve to satisfy the ego of a few NIMBY homeowners and actively prevent neighborhoods from changing to meet the changing needs of their current residents, all the while having the chutzpah to claim they speak for every resident.

It makes total sense that these groups spawned from Yvonne.

Posted on: 8/7 16:07
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Re: Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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So sorry to hear this, Tinia Bland hosts the debates for every election for Ward F and has been doing this for years.

Posted on: 8/7 14:15
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Hatfield and McCoy's on Astor Place!
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Posted on: 8/7 13:59
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