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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Dolomiti wrote:
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light12v wrote:
WHY Dolomiti ??

Seriously? You can't figure this out?

Yvonne is saying that I do not have the right to make any changes to any existing public policy. But if I don't have the right to advocate for any changes, then neither does she.

I.e. I'm illustrating that her position is irrational and hypocritical. It went over her head, of course, because she's behaving irrationally and hypocritically. So it goes.


I figure this out as it proceeds, based upon All of the Shitstorm Sideshows going on in or about JC in these times and a Pacer account.

My Question to you is Only about your text words that I have converted to Bold.......so again, I am asking you WHY ???

Posted on: 8/11 15:14
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Here is the point, the mayor has no right to denigrate/ disparage an ethnic group. That is something jclist members are ignoring. Furthermore, he should have reached out to the committee in the beginning instead of announcing this move. Fulop was a bully in this matter, plain and simple. This city elected a mayor, not a dictator.

Posted on: 8/11 14:55
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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light12v wrote:
WHY Dolomiti ??

Seriously? You can't figure this out?

Yvonne is saying that I do not have the right to make any changes to any existing public policy. But if I don't have the right to advocate for any changes, then neither does she.

I.e. I'm illustrating that her position is irrational and hypocritical. It went over her head, of course, because she's behaving irrationally and hypocritically. So it goes.

Posted on: 8/11 13:57
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Dolomiti, the Katyn monument has been there for over 30 years, if you were here, then you had the opportunity to speak at the city council meeting that you did not want it. If you came later, then you moved into a city that already had the statue and chose to stay.

Yeah, you might want to rethink that.

You had the opportunity to speak against the pedestrian plaza on Newark. It happened anyway. By your own logic, you should just accept it, and give up any future opportunity to reverse it.

You had the opportunity to speak against moving the statue. It happened anyway. By your own logic, you should just accept it, and forsake any future opportunity to reverse this decision.

You had the opportunity to vote for someone other than Fulop. He was properly elected as Mayor. You had your shot, it didn't go your way, and by your own logic you should quietly and humbly accept the consequences... and not complain.

P.S. You didn't answer my question. Why am I not surprised.


WHY Dolomiti ??

Posted on: 8/11 13:45
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Your response is illogical, you don't like the statue, that is your problem. I don't like the mayor attacking an ethnic group on a radio program. As a citizen, I felt it was embarrassing to the city. But I am sure, when Fulop runs for higher office, those comments will come out. And people outside the city will be wondering why he is mayor and why people like you are defending him.

Posted on: 8/6 23:31
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Dolomiti, where are the by-laws here that says, I must respond to what you say? I gave you my statement.

No one said you have to respond to me. You chose to do so, of your own free will. And I chose to point out that a) your response is illogical, and b) your response did not answer my question.

And in case you missed the sarcasm: Your ad hoc rationalization does not work. Period.

I mean, really. Read your own statement. You're saying I don't have the right to any opinion about anything in the city. If something was decided before I moved here? I have no say. If something was decided after I moved here? I still have no say. But, of course, you and anyone who agrees with you are not bound by this requirement.

Nuts to that. I have the same right to express my opinion as you, and any other resident of this city. I don't lose that right because you don't like what I have to say.

Posted on: 8/6 19:59
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Dolomiti, where are the by-laws here that says, I must respond to what you say? I gave you my statement. If you were here before the statue was up, you had the opportunity to voice your complaint to city hall, but after it was up, well, too bad, it is here. You made you choice to live here and the statue is part of the landscape.

Posted on: 8/6 19:29
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Bike_Lane wrote:
The statue will have a nice prominent location and there will be a nice park at ExPl. Who can be upset about that?

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Posted on: 8/6 19:29
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
Dolomiti, the Katyn monument has been there for over 30 years, if you were here, then you had the opportunity to speak at the city council meeting that you did not want it. If you came later, then you moved into a city that already had the statue and chose to stay.

Yeah, you might want to rethink that.

You had the opportunity to speak against the pedestrian plaza on Newark. It happened anyway. By your own logic, you should just accept it, and give up any future opportunity to reverse it.

You had the opportunity to speak against moving the statue. It happened anyway. By your own logic, you should just accept it, and forsake any future opportunity to reverse this decision.

You had the opportunity to vote for someone other than Fulop. He was properly elected as Mayor. You had your shot, it didn't go your way, and by your own logic you should quietly and humbly accept the consequences... and not complain.

P.S. You didn't answer my question. Why am I not surprised.

Posted on: 8/6 19:25
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Update on the issue. The city council passed this on July 14, 2018 at 2:00 PM. The mayor signed this ordinance on the 15th. The petitioners had 20 days to get signatures. Naturally, they thought the 20 days started on the 16th, the day after the ordinance was passed but the city clerk said the 20 days started on the 14th, basically the city took 2 days away to gather signatures. Now this group has turned in 5,000 additional signatures and said 1,100 signatures the city turned down are valid. The law requires 5 days for the city clerk to check these signatures. The clerk has now filed a petition in the court claiming he needs more time. He wants until August 13th. So this is government under Fulop, steals 2 days from the petitioners yet plead to the court for more time to do their job. Double standards as usual.

Posted on: 8/6 8:43
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Thank you Yvonne for wasting our elected officials collective time and our tax dollars to begin to review a second petition of what is likely to consist of fake names to oppose a statue from being moved one block of the waterfront to one block south due to your personal vendetta against our current mayor. I'm glad your speaking for NJ on behalf of everyone here.

Maybe when you attempt to lead the effort for the 3rd petition you should ask those that sign the petition to offer a donation to pay for that 3rd party to review the fake signatures (per your suggestion) as opposed to the tax payers.

Posted on: 8/6 1:09
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I like the statue. I was upset when I heard it was going to be moved to the middle of Montgomery St. After all of the fracas, and the plan changed to move it to the foot of York St., I found that to be a good compromise.

The statue will have a nice prominent location and there will be a nice park at ExPl. Who can be upset about that?

Posted on: 8/5 12:04
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Dolomiti, the Katyn monument has been there for over 30 years, if you were here, then you had the opportunity to speak at the city council meeting that you did not want it. If you came later, then you moved into a city that already had the statue and chose to stay.

Posted on: 8/5 10:28
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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slim26 wrote:
This is really one of the dumbest battles I've ever heard of. Surprised how much time is collectively wasted on this effort which will ultimately fail.

It's not like they are demolishing the hideous statue - 1 frigged over.

Hilarious.


Actually, you are right, my opinion does not matter, but the people who signed these petitions do matter as a group. A black veteran who signed the petition was upset that the mayor would move a war memorial. His opinion counts.

So does mine.

I'm not upset. It's an ugly and gruesome statue. I am 100% fine with it being moved and/or replaced.

Should his opinion matter more than mine? Nope. We're equals, we both get an equal say, both our opinions weigh the same. So why are you crediting his opinion more than mine?

Posted on: 8/5 10:16
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Well, nicky, I guess you have not heard me speak before the city council. I have brought up the MUA. For the record, I got involved in this due to Mayor Fulop. He was on the radio attacking the Polish people. No mayor, in the history of JC, has ever attacked an ethnic group. He accused the Polish government of adding Nazis Germany during the 2nd world war. He accused the people of being in denial. Then the called out the Speaker of the House in Poland. Fulop's behavior is an embarrassment. Futhermore, he did not meet with the people who placed that statue there. By the way, it was late Jaime Vazquez, the Puerto Rican councilman who helped the Polish community place the statue there. If he was alive, I am sure he would be in the forefront of keeping the statue there.

Posted on: 8/5 9:58
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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slim26 wrote:
This is really one of the dumbest battles I've ever heard of. Surprised how much time is collectively wasted on this effort which will ultimately fail.

It's not like they are demolishing the hideous statue - 1 frigged over.

Hilarious.


Seriously - why doesn't Yvonne seem to care about real issues, like the waste in the MUA or for pushing for a more sensible reval system? Because that would involve logic and numbers, two things she does not understand and fears, so she reverts to this cultural war nonsense in one of the most liberal cities in the country. What a ridiculous waste of time this entire issue has been.

Posted on: 8/5 9:29
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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slim26 wrote:
This is really one of the dumbest battles I've ever heard of. Surprised how much time is collectively wasted on this effort which will ultimately fail.

It's not like they are demolishing the hideous statue - 1 frigged over.

Hilarious.


Actually, you are right, my opinion does not matter, but the people who signed these petitions do matter as a group. A black veteran who signed the petition was upset that the mayor would move a war memorial. His opinion counts.

Posted on: 8/4 17:56
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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This is really one of the dumbest battles I've ever heard of. Surprised how much time is collectively wasted on this effort which will ultimately fail.

It's not like they are demolishing the hideous statue - 1 frigged over.

Hilarious.

Posted on: 8/4 17:16
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Lucky for us your opinion is only that as it would be a waste of money.

Posted on: 8/4 16:00
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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You need a third party to verify claims and signatures. JC is acting like a third world country.

Posted on: 8/4 11:27
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I read it. So far it is just a claim, not verified.

Posted on: 8/4 9:27
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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You, psyop, ignored the most important part of the story, 1,000 signatures that the city said was invalid, are valid. I said it before, a third party should be checking these signatures, not the city. The mayor gives raises to city employees so, of course, they would dismiss a signature that a third party would not.

Posted on: 8/4 8:20
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I could also write my name on a piece of paper 5k times if I wanted to, doesn't mean anything though.

Posted on: 8/3 20:04
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Posted on: 8/3 19:59
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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No I didn't see it. Maybe I'll swing by again tomorrow and see if they're still around. FWIW Parking is still a shitshow, now they take CC and DON'T take personal checks!!!

Posted on: 8/1 21:05
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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brewster wrote:
Today outside the Parking Authority office I was asked to sign a petition against "them tearing down all the statues in JC". Well there's a classic bit of deception! I pointed out they were moving just one statue a few hundred feet, and the woman walked off in a huff.


So if we are keeping track it's now fraudulent signatures and the actual petition itself.
Just curious if you saw the petition? Wondering if it said what it was for or were they planning on adding a page later with the actual agenda.

Posted on: 8/1 19:36
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Today outside the Parking Authority office I was asked to sign a petition against "them tearing down all the statues in JC". Well there's a classic bit of deception! I pointed out they were moving just one statue a few hundred feet, and the woman walked off in a huff.

Posted on: 8/1 18:05
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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psyop wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Money should be spent for important things, honesty in government is an important thing, psyop.


I agree, on important things. This is not that.


So truth is not important?


Stop trying to twist it, just because you deem something important doesn't make it that.


oh god just stop, everybody

Posted on: 7/25 14:28
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
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psyop wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Money should be spent for important things, honesty in government is an important thing, psyop.


I agree, on important things. This is not that.


So truth is not important?


Stop trying to twist it, just because you deem something important doesn't make it that.

Posted on: 7/25 11:16
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:
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psyop wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Money should be spent for important things, honesty in government is an important thing, psyop.


I agree, on important things. This is not that.


So truth is not important?


Why not just admit that if you couldn't get the required number of signatures the first time around, people actually living in JC don't give a shit about the issue? You and your army of NIMBY retirees and a few Polish nationalists are the only ones that care.

I think the mayor should have handled the announcement much better, but the compromise seems like a reasonable one to me and most people seem to be in agreement.

Why does Yvonne not use her NIMBY powers for something good, like beautification or planting trees around downtown? Why waste of time and energy over moving a statue one block when this city and our part-time council have real issues to worry about.

Posted on: 7/25 11:10
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