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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Firetrucks today are large, it is the reason residents cannot park 25 feet from the corner to allow firetrucks to pass. It is not just one responding, it is usually 3 or 4 plus other support team.

Posted on: 6/6 13:08
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Yvonne wrote:
At the last council meeting a person asked if fire trucks will be able to go down those streets since planters are there. It takes a while to move those planters so will that hamper putting out a fire in a timely manner. That question should have been asked the first time the mall started.

If you'd actually been to Newark recently, you'd see there is plenty of room for fire trucks to get down the street.

Thanks, but no thanks, for yet another fake issue.

Posted on: 6/5 19:34
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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That question was asked by this person but there was no answer given by the city council, brewster.

Posted on: 6/5 19:34
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Yvonne wrote:
At the last council meeting a person asked if fire trucks will be able to go down those streets since planters are there. It takes a while to move those planters so will that hamper putting out a fire in a timely manner. That question should have been asked the first time the mall started.


Perhaps they can actually ask the FD if they were consulted rather than assuming they had not, since FD's have to deal with security bollards and planters around virtually EVERY civic building in the metro area. At first guess I'd say they reasonably responded that getting in by the gated Grove end of the plaza, like ALL the delivery trucks, was just fine.

Posted on: 6/5 17:57
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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erstrecs wrote:
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jcneighbor wrote:
P&K had about a year left on their 20-year lease. The new lease offer was over $20k/month and they'd told me they couldn't swing that months before the pedestrian plaza expansion. But multiple store owners have said that the pedestrian plaza has reduced their business. I've been here over 30 years and know enough of the longtime owners. They told me directly-


Odd, I just talked to the P&K people and they said they are definitely not planning on closing or moving, and actually they are looking to expand into an additional location. The pedestrian plaza and lack of parking is definitely hurting their business but they say they are not going anywhere. And I have also lived here for 30 years as of this fall. :)


Please let that new location be a P+K take over of Lee's.



Lee's is doing just fine, and their store is actually a lot smaller than the space P&K has now, unless of course you meant TenderShoot or you have it out for Lee's on Grove Street for some reason.

Posted on: 6/5 17:30
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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At the last council meeting a person asked if fire trucks will be able to go down those streets since planters are there. It takes a while to move those planters so will that hamper putting out a fire in a timely manner. That question should have been asked the first time the mall started.

Posted on: 6/5 16:39
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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jcneighbor wrote:
P&K had about a year left on their 20-year lease. The new lease offer was over $20k/month and they'd told me they couldn't swing that months before the pedestrian plaza expansion. But multiple store owners have said that the pedestrian plaza has reduced their business. I've been here over 30 years and know enough of the longtime owners. They told me directly-


Odd, I just talked to the P&K people and they said they are definitely not planning on closing or moving, and actually they are looking to expand into an additional location. The pedestrian plaza and lack of parking is definitely hurting their business but they say they are not going anywhere. And I have also lived here for 30 years as of this fall. :)


Please let that new location be a P+K take over of Lee's.

Posted on: 6/5 15:04
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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jcneighbor wrote:
P&K had about a year left on their 20-year lease. The new lease offer was over $20k/month and they'd told me they couldn't swing that months before the pedestrian plaza expansion. But multiple store owners have said that the pedestrian plaza has reduced their business. I've been here over 30 years and know enough of the longtime owners. They told me directly-


Odd, I just talked to the P&K people and they said they are definitely not planning on closing or moving, and actually they are looking to expand into an additional location. The pedestrian plaza and lack of parking is definitely hurting their business but they say they are not going anywhere. And I have also lived here for 30 years as of this fall. :)

Posted on: 6/5 14:22
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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we are in P&K every other day. they're our go-to grocer. we will really feel their absence if they close.


Ugh, that would be super depressing. This is going to be one of those neighborhoods where regular stores that sell normal things that people need won't be able to exist. Food desert here we come!

La Conga is 1.5 blocks away from P&K.

Key Foods is 2.5 blocks away from P&K.

"Food desert?" Not so much.


This. So much drama... And, for the non stuck up crowd, there are two GIGANTIC food stores (ShopRite and BJs) not even 10 minutes away by foot. A downtowner crying about DTJC becoming a food desert is deliciously ridiculous.


Why care about any business for that matter? The reasons are that people get into their own routines and it's sad to see local business leave. When that happens neighborhoods lose some character. It's not always about finding their products elsewhere. Otherwise all stores could close and we could just shop at Walmart


Talk about strawman arguments...! Nobody is denying there is inherent value in small, "mom and pop" shops, or the concept of "shop local". But, it is utterly pathetic for someone (anyone!) to even try and claim that DTJC is at risk of becoming a food desert because P&K may close in the future. We are mocking THAT assertion.

For the record, a food desert is defined as living more than one mile from a supermarket in urban or suburban areas, and more than 10 miles from a supermarket in rural areas. If you draw a one mile radius circle with DTJC at its center, you will find a ton of supermarket and food stores within that circle, including 99 Ranch, ShopRite, and Key Foods, and multiple smaller shops where to pick up produce, fish, meat, etc.


And I have it based on a very reliable source, that Whole Foods is very close to finalizing a lease with Mack Cali for the first and second levels in the building where Five Guys is currently. I realize that’s not breaking news, but I’ve been told it’s more than just rumor.

Downtown is not hurting, when it comes to food options. Plus...it seems P&K was moving before the expansion even happened.

First. world. drama.

Posted on: 5/30 17:25
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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135jc wrote:
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I_heart_JC wrote:

we are in P&K every other day. they're our go-to grocer. we will really feel their absence if they close.


Ugh, that would be super depressing. This is going to be one of those neighborhoods where regular stores that sell normal things that people need won't be able to exist. Food desert here we come!

La Conga is 1.5 blocks away from P&K.

Key Foods is 2.5 blocks away from P&K.

"Food desert?" Not so much.


This. So much drama... And, for the non stuck up crowd, there are two GIGANTIC food stores (ShopRite and BJs) not even 10 minutes away by foot. A downtowner crying about DTJC becoming a food desert is deliciously ridiculous.


Why care about any business for that matter? The reasons are that people get into their own routines and it's sad to see local business leave. When that happens neighborhoods lose some character. It's not always about finding their products elsewhere. Otherwise all stores could close and we could just shop at Walmart


Talk about strawman arguments...! Nobody is denying there is inherent value in small, "mom and pop" shops, or the concept of "shop local". But, it is utterly pathetic for someone (anyone!) to even try and claim that DTJC is at risk of becoming a food desert because P&K may close in the future. We are mocking THAT assertion.

For the record, a food desert is defined as living more than one mile from a supermarket in urban or suburban areas, and more than 10 miles from a supermarket in rural areas. If you draw a one mile radius circle with DTJC at its center, you will find a ton of supermarket and food stores within that circle, including 99 Ranch, ShopRite, and Key Foods, and multiple smaller shops where to pick up produce, fish, meat, etc.

Posted on: 5/30 14:32
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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bodhipooh wrote:
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I_heart_JC wrote:

we are in P&K every other day. they're our go-to grocer. we will really feel their absence if they close.


Ugh, that would be super depressing. This is going to be one of those neighborhoods where regular stores that sell normal things that people need won't be able to exist. Food desert here we come!

La Conga is 1.5 blocks away from P&K.

Key Foods is 2.5 blocks away from P&K.

"Food desert?" Not so much.


This. So much drama... And, for the non stuck up crowd, there are two GIGANTIC food stores (ShopRite and BJs) not even 10 minutes away by foot. A downtowner crying about DTJC becoming a food desert is deliciously ridiculous.


Why care about any business for that matter? The reasons are that people get into their own routines and it's sad to see local business leave. When that happens neighborhoods lose some character. It's not always about finding their products elsewhere. Otherwise all stores could close and we could just shop at Walmart

Posted on: 5/30 13:43
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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bodhipooh wrote:
This. So much drama... And, for the non stuck up crowd, there are two GIGANTIC food stores (ShopRite and BJs) not even 10 minutes away by foot. A downtowner crying about DTJC becoming a food desert is deliciously ridiculous.


No kidding. Try living in Hilltop, where Key Food is the closest thing that resembles a supermarket, and it's a 20-minute walk away, and CTown on Academy is about the same distance in the opposite direction.

Posted on: 5/30 12:03
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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I_heart_JC wrote:

we are in P&K every other day. they're our go-to grocer. we will really feel their absence if they close.


Ugh, that would be super depressing. This is going to be one of those neighborhoods where regular stores that sell normal things that people need won't be able to exist. Food desert here we come!

La Conga is 1.5 blocks away from P&K.

Key Foods is 2.5 blocks away from P&K.

"Food desert?" Not so much.


This. So much drama... And, for the non stuck up crowd, there are two GIGANTIC food stores (ShopRite and BJs) not even 10 minutes away by foot. A downtowner crying about DTJC becoming a food desert is deliciously ridiculous.

Posted on: 5/30 8:43
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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I_heart_JC wrote:

we are in P&K every other day. they're our go-to grocer. we will really feel their absence if they close.


Ugh, that would be super depressing. This is going to be one of those neighborhoods where regular stores that sell normal things that people need won't be able to exist. Food desert here we come!

La Conga is 1.5 blocks away from P&K.

Key Foods is 2.5 blocks away from P&K.

"Food desert?" Not so much.

Posted on: 5/30 7:57
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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I_heart_JC wrote:

we are in P&K every other day. they're our go-to grocer. we will really feel their absence if they close.


Ugh, that would be super depressing. This is going to be one of those neighborhoods where regular stores that sell normal things that people need won't be able to exist. Food desert here we come!

Posted on: 5/29 23:26
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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jcneighbor wrote: P&K had about a year left on their 20-year lease. The new lease offer was over $20k/month and they'd told me they couldn't swing that months before the pedestrian plaza expansion. But multiple store owners have said that the pedestrian plaza has reduced their business. I've been here over 30 years and know enough of the longtime owners. They told me directly-
I can see that being the case - there are certain businesses that would probably do better (restaurants for instance) and others that may do worse. Coupled with presumably higher rents, due to downtown's general revivial - it'll close a few stores for sure.

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hero69 wrote:
if cobblestones are prohibitively expensive, what about some nice trees that provide shade and so public artwork. i would think that fulop and the City must have some extra money in the slush fund given the reval.


I love the look of cobblestones. If I'm being honest though, aside from being expensive, they are annoying as hell to walk on, and awful when it rains. I'd much rather just have regular street. As for artwork - there is some. A new one was just painted in the new section of the pedestrian plaza:
Resized Image

Plus they had that Monopoly that was somehow always offensive to someone so they finally painted over it. It's mostly building facades though so there isn't a lot of space for art. Maybe sculpture type things if that's what you're referring to (a fountain would be nice).

It would be nice to have some larger planters - here's an article from JerseyDigs when they were considering it (not sure what happened to the plan). It looks sort of nice, but I (and I don't think I'm alone in this) like the look of the lights across the street. It could still probably work with them.

Posted on: 5/29 21:28
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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jcneighbor wrote:
P&K had about a year left on their 20-year lease. The new lease offer was over $20k/month and they'd told me they couldn't swing that months before the pedestrian plaza expansion. But multiple store owners have said that the pedestrian plaza has reduced their business. I've been here over 30 years and know enough of the longtime owners. They told me directly-


we are in P&K every other day. they're our go-to grocer. we will really feel their absence if they close.

Posted on: 5/29 19:46
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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jcneighbor wrote:
P&K had about a year left on their 20-year lease. The new lease offer was over $20k/month and they'd told me they couldn't swing that months before the pedestrian plaza expansion. But multiple store owners have said that the pedestrian plaza has reduced their business. I've been here over 30 years and know enough of the longtime owners. They told me directly-
this makes sense. i remember the owner of the now since closed pet store on newark avenue telling me that he was closing since his rent was going up and he didn't feel like working "for the landlord"

Posted on: 5/29 17:14
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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P&K had about a year left on their 20-year lease. The new lease offer was over $20k/month and they'd told me they couldn't swing that months before the pedestrian plaza expansion. But multiple store owners have said that the pedestrian plaza has reduced their business. I've been here over 30 years and know enough of the longtime owners. They told me directly-

Posted on: 5/29 16:55
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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if cobblestones are prohibitively expensive, what about some nice trees that provide shade and so public artwork. i would think that fulop and the City must have some extra money in the slush fund given the reval.


UGH. I wish people would stop with this type of comment. The reval is REVENUE NEUTRAL. The city is collecting the same amount of money post reval as it did before the reval. There is no such thing as extra money because of the reval.
i agree with you but i'm sure they left a little wiggle room otherwise everytime someone appeals and wins, the rate for someone else would go up. of course, if there are too may sucessful appeals, then that "wiggle room" would be gone. it is just common sense that there would be contingencies, at least imo

Posted on: 5/29 16:48
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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hero69 wrote:
if cobblestones are prohibitively expensive, what about some nice trees that provide shade and so public artwork. i would think that fulop and the City must have some extra money in the slush fund given the reval.


UGH. I wish people would stop with this type of comment. The reval is REVENUE NEUTRAL. The city is collecting the same amount of money post reval as it did before the reval. There is no such thing as extra money because of the reval.

Posted on: 5/29 15:15
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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if cobblestones are prohibitively expensive, what about some nice trees that provide shade and so public artwork. i would think that fulop and the City must have some extra money in the slush fund given the reval.

Posted on: 5/29 14:39
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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That intersection has always been a dangerous mess. It’s much better now. P&K will continue to get foot traffic (perhaps more now) and if customers insist upon driving there, there’s a parking lot right behind their store.

Posted on: 5/29 11:15
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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I am incapable of understanding the opposition to this.

How can you prefer it the way it was before? It's baffling to me.

Posted on: 5/29 10:18
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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My wife just informed by the owners that P&K food market will close due to the pedestrian plaza. The rely on people pulling up and double parking to get groceries.


Surely you aren't suggesting that progressive urban development shouldn't happen so that a store, or at least a store's customers, can partake in illegal parking? Bay Street was a traffic nightmare that should have been enforced a decade (or more) ago. That they'd jump ship so soon (if this rumor is true) is shortsighted, and that they think they're above the law in order to generate business is laughable.


I'm staring that the owners said they are going to eventually close due to the plaza. Nothing more than that!


Fair enough. Then per the rumor, the STORE is claiming that their customers should be allowed to illegally park so that they can stay in business. Absurd.

Posted on: 5/29 10:04
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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My wife just informed by the owners that P&K food market will close due to the pedestrian plaza. The rely on people pulling up and double parking to get groceries.


Surely you aren't suggesting that progressive urban development shouldn't happen so that a store, or at least a store's customers, can partake in illegal parking? Bay Street was a traffic nightmare that should have been enforced a decade (or more) ago. That they'd jump ship so soon (if this rumor is true) is shortsighted, and that they think they're above the law in order to generate business is laughable.


I'm staring that the owners said they are going to eventually close due to the plaza. Nothing more than that!


interesting, but how do owners know that the pedestrian plaza will slow their business. maybe the rent will be too damn high if their lease is up for renewal. whenever, I've gone there, I've only seen people arriving by foot, not getting out of cars.

Posted on: 5/27 17:09
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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My wife just informed by the owners that P&K food market will close due to the pedestrian plaza. The rely on people pulling up and double parking to get groceries.


Surely you aren't suggesting that progressive urban development shouldn't happen so that a store, or at least a store's customers, can partake in illegal parking? Bay Street was a traffic nightmare that should have been enforced a decade (or more) ago. That they'd jump ship so soon (if this rumor is true) is shortsighted, and that they think they're above the law in order to generate business is laughable.


I'm staring that the owners said they are going to eventually close due to the plaza. Nothing more than that!

Posted on: 5/26 19:15
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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Once the May 23rd council meeting gets online, you can see another member of the public complaining about not getting his deliveries due to the street closing. If we are going to close off streets for open space, then the city should sell parks, because that is what was called open space before.

Posted on: 5/26 17:54
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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135jc wrote:
My wife just informed by the owners that P&K food market will close due to the pedestrian plaza. The rely on people pulling up and double parking to get groceries.


Surely you aren't suggesting that progressive urban development shouldn't happen so that a store, or at least a store's customers, can partake in illegal parking? Bay Street was a traffic nightmare that should have been enforced a decade (or more) ago. That they'd jump ship so soon (if this rumor is true) is shortsighted, and that they think they're above the law in order to generate business is laughable.

Posted on: 5/26 17:29
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Re: Newark Avenue Pedestrian Plaza Expansion
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135jc wrote:
My wife just informed by the owners that P&K food market will close due to the pedestrian plaza. The rely on people pulling up and double parking to get groceries.


It maybe seems premature to decide that, no? When I'm there it's full of people who just got off the train. I rarely see people pulling up and going in to P&K. They usually go into the chicken place or the pharmacy.

Posted on: 5/26 17:17
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