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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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oreoz wrote:
So is it safe to assume you've changed your mind and now want the monument to stay? Interesting to say the least. I approve of gaining a deeper understanding of people's feelings towards the monument, although I suspect the real reason is because you don't like Fulop and his handling of the situation made it easy for you to jump to the other side.

Personally - I like it where it is. Presumably, it'll be good where it's going also. The way it was handled was stupid, and I dislike even more the fact that some developer with money declares that he doesn't like it and it has to move (does he own the space? thought it was public), but it seems like the end result is a pretty decent compromise. Too bad it had to happen so..shadily.

What's with the soft -peddling of this issue here ?
Whether one likes or dislikes Fulop is Irrelevant !!!

Personally - I find it is somewhat difficult to *Like* someone who is insulting to the taxpaying public & widely dismissive of the Real needs of All JC Citizens, Over-Reaching in his *Governing bwo Twitter announcements & E.O.s,, all the while promoting divisiveness with his assignments of the 'Hater' label to any/all [most of who have solid rationale 4 said opposition] who disagree with his opinion/POV.

What IS Relevant however is Exactly what U have stated : "the fact that some developer with money declares that he doesn't like it and it has to move"

There has yet to be an End Result, as there are Legal proceedings pending before the court to be adjudicated, Definitions of Empowered parties to any agreement to be resolved. and most importantly a Huge matter of Engineering studies /Cost Analysis plus the ability to fund such an undertaking,, aka. WHOIS gonna pay for all of this ??

This Fulop Administration has denied the most basic of Needs in our City's Communities in favor of Feel-Good projects, Staffing expenditures, and keeping Lawyers flush with No-Bid Contracts to Defend HIS Poor Policy Decisions.
This trajectory is Simply NOT Sustainable!

Ur stmt. : "Too Bad... " referring to Shady Backroom Self-Dealings, that you think are a Done Deal, will be prove to be fatefully problematic [and precedent setting]

Posted on: Today 12:40
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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So is it safe to assume you've changed your mind and now want the monument to stay? Interesting to say the least. I approve of gaining a deeper understanding of people's feelings towards the monument, although I suspect the real reason is because you don't like Fulop and his handling of the situation made it easy for you to jump to the other side.

Personally - I like it where it is. Presumably, it'll be good where it's going also. The way it was handled was stupid, and I dislike even more the fact that some developer with money declares that he doesn't like it and it has to move (does he own the space? thought it was public), but it seems like the end result is a pretty decent compromise. Too bad it had to happen so..shadily.

Posted on: Yesterday 12:11
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Posted on: 5/25 8:02
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The mayor does not have the legal authority to close down streets unless there is an emergency which is temporary. Street closing comes under the jurdication of the city council, it does not come under the authority of executive privilege. I mentioned earlier that Fulop used executive privilege when he stopped demolitions. There was a court case but it was dropped. Fulop knew Judge Bariso would say he had no authority. So he dropped the challenge. The city council cleaned up his mess by doing the legislation on demolition. The city council also cleaned up his mess by executing legislation on street closing after the fact.

Posted on: 5/24 20:35
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Yvonne wrote:

..........This is a problem that Fulop, he did not reach out to the community when he did the demolition nor closed Newark Avenue for the mall. Fulop has abused the executive privilege. The Faulkner Act is limited as to his executive privilege. Only the city council can create laws that affect the public such as closing streets, unless there is an emergency or stop demolition. Fulop withdrew his executive privilege when it came before Judge Bariso so the case was dropped. I am sure the judge would have ruled his executive privilege as not valid. Fulop is wrong for not reaching out and making a decision with community input..


Gee wasn't the creation of the Newark Avenue Plaza a long drawn out process with a trial period of 3 months and then community meetings to gather input if it should be made permanent?

I think so....

http://www.cityofjerseycity.com/commu ... portation/pedestrianmall/

(down load) Research and Findings

8/19/2014 JJ: “Creating the plaza – which is on a nearly three-month test run – met with some resistance from at least one business owner and a member of the City Council, but it won rave reviews from pedestrians and cyclists hanging out there today.”

PS – guess who the member of the City Council was…lol


.





Posted on: 5/24 19:14
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I really hate to revive this thread but came across this today... absolutely hysterical the way all the Jersey City Local Names are pronounced incorrectly and somehow (at least to my untrained ear) the Polish names are pronounced flawlessly... LOL

https://www.infowars.com/anti-trump-ma ... l-riles-polish-americans/

Posted on: 5/24 17:57
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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asny10011 wrote:
I think Fulop should be accountable to the people of Jersey City and do what is best for the development of the area. If it means moving a statue, i am ok with it. I am surprised at the comments directed against him - especially from those who do not even live in jersey city!


Here is the problem - the monument was not created by the city as with other monuments, it was done with private money. Fulop did not reach out to the people who are still active in promoting Katyn. This is a problem that Fulop, he did not reach out to the community when he did the demolition nor closed Newark Avenue for the mall. Fulop has abused the executive privilege. The Faulkner Act is limited as to his executive privilege. Only the city council can create laws that affect the public such as closing streets, unless there is an emergency or stop demolition. Fulop withdrew his executive privilege when it came before Judge Bariso so the case was dropped. I am sure the judge would have ruled his executive privilege as not valid. Fulop is wrong for not reaching out and making a decision with community input..

Posted on: 5/18 16:44
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I think Fulop should be accountable to the people of Jersey City and do what is best for the development of the area. If it means moving a statue, i am ok with it. I am surprised at the comments directed against him - especially from those who do not even live in jersey city!

Posted on: 5/18 15:28
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I wonder what Fulop's comment would be if someone removed the Holocaust monument in Liberty State Park and placed in another area not as nice? I think his comment would make Boggiano's comment look like child's play.

Posted on: 5/16 20:23
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neverleft wrote:
.
(gotta love the headline…lol)

Polish president visits N.J. statue at center of trans-Atlantic row

Updated 6:41 PM; Posted 6:27 PM
By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY — Polish President Andrzej Duda stopped at Exchange Place on Wednesday as Jersey City and the region's Polish community remained locked in a fight over the city's plan to relocate the Katyn monument.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... -.html#incart_2box_hudson




Councilman Rich Boggiano, who wants the statue to remain, called the ambassador a "piece of s***" for agreeing with the city's plan to move it.

- never a finer statesman

#LOL!

Posted on: 5/16 20:02
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(gotta love the headline…lol)

Polish president visits N.J. statue at center of trans-Atlantic row

Updated 6:41 PM; Posted 6:27 PM
By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY — Polish President Andrzej Duda stopped at Exchange Place on Wednesday as Jersey City and the region's Polish community remained locked in a fight over the city's plan to relocate the Katyn monument.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... -.html#incart_2box_hudson


Posted on: 5/16 19:55
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Mayor Steven Fulop welcomed Polish President Andrzej Duda and First Lady Agata Kornhauser-Duda to Jersey City for a wreath-laying ceremony at the Katyn Statue in Exchange Place as protesters chanted and heckled their disapproval of the statue's pending relocation. Of note, one protester was removed by police for holding a sign in protest of the Polish president.
https://www.facebook.com/RealJerseyCityNJ/videos/2022726811085613

Posted on: 5/16 19:42
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Red Rose = Love ,,,,,,,,, White Rose = Remembrance

...........1 Red Rose + 1 White Rose = Unity.............

We, The People of Jersey City NJ, USA will lay our 2 Rose Unity Tribute to Katyn Memorial that lives at Exchange Place, In Reverent Silent Protest to any Re-Location Plan that alters our Shared Memories & Collective History in Jersey City
[ Unity Tribute Flowers to be provided at Exchange Place site @ 4PM ]

Posted on: 5/16 1:29
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thor800 wrote:
the statue is still staying very close to its original location. the uproar over moving it 60 meters away is laughable


I believe the uproar was why and how it was proposed to be moved. A sufficient reason was not stated and it was done underhandedly.


InDeed

Posted on: 5/15 19:38
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TheBigGuy wrote:
Interesting to see how soon someone gets down there tomorrow to clean the mess. All the candles/Red Jars have blown off the granite step... highs winds/rain. It's a shame.


There is an improvement district in which property owners pay an additional tax so it is not coming out of the general fund. The idea for the removal of the memorial came from the Improvement District anyway.

Posted on: 5/15 19:06
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Interesting to see how soon someone gets down there tomorrow to clean the mess. All the candles/Red Jars have blown off the granite step... highs winds/rain. It's a shame.

Posted on: 5/15 18:25
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thor800 wrote:
the statue is still staying very close to its original location. the uproar over moving it 60 meters away is laughable


I believe the uproar was why and how it was proposed to be moved. A sufficient reason was not stated and it was done underhandedly.

Posted on: 5/15 16:44
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This is not about me nicky, although I do have a great deal of respect for the Polish people. I actually remember reading about St. Maximum Kolbe who gave his life for a Jewish man about to be executed by the Nazi. Kolbe was a Catholic priest who wrote articles condemning Nazis for rounding up Jewish people. When someone escaped from a Nazi camp, ten people was chosen to be executed, a Jewish man was in that list and cried because he had a wife and children. So Maximilian Kolbe volunteered to take his place. The Nazis went after the Jews but the Polish people did not fare well during the war. According to wikianswers, 3 million Catholic Polish people died under the Nazis regime.


How do you even post something like this?


And this for example - " There is a Holocaust memorial in Liberty State Park, also a prime location. If the park were to relocate this memorial, I am sure there would be outrage."

On Fulop's twitter feed the nazis and white power contingent used the same argument.

Yvonne feeds off anger, racism, fear, and misery. She's toxic.


The only toxic people are those who hide their true names and go around condemning others. Shame on you! You are just describing yourself.

Posted on: 5/15 16:35
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pizzaboye wrote:
The insane Polish netizen over-reaction about the statue is hilarious on Fulop's twit page. He must have half the trolls of Poland harassing him.


Yeah there some creative photo shopping and tweets going on. I wish I could read Polish because under Maciej Golubiewski’s tweet replies to Mayor Fulop it looked like it was another round of insults. (I am guessing CAPS mean the same thing in Polish..lol)

Although someone did have the sense to tweet this photo showing the move is no big deal which calmed a few people down..


Resized Image


Posted on: 5/15 15:22
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oreoz wrote:
I have to say - I think the mayor botched his handling of this one. He could have announced this end result without all the in between drama and there'd probably be a lot less of it. Now he's somehow managed to piss off people from all sides. At the end it will all probably be swept under the rug (and the end result sounds like a good compromise), but it's not a good look.

But Yvonne - I'm curious as to your sudden change of position. You were one of the strongest supporters of moving the statue at the beginning of this thread, giving all sorts of reasons. Why the sudden change? Is it just because you found yourself on the same side as the mayor you despise? Seems a bit odd.

Our Ever-So-Politically-Correct Mayor Authored this ShitStorm via Twitter & the Chickens have Now come Home to Roost.
The Optics are now BAD 4 HIM because he got Checked+Challenged by a tight knit Polish Speaking Community who Pushed Back & said NO!

I am most interested in seeing whether Maciej remains Polish Consul General when Polish President arrives for tomorrow's Wreath-Laying Ceremony, as it is my understanding from Polish people here & abroad that these political Machinations go against the grain of Polish President's Core Beliefs.

Posted on: 5/15 14:47
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Yvonne wrote:

This is not about me nicky, although I do have a great deal of respect for the Polish people. I actually remember reading about St. Maximum Kolbe who gave his life for a Jewish man about to be executed by the Nazi. Kolbe was a Catholic priest who wrote articles condemning Nazis for rounding up Jewish people. When someone escaped from a Nazi camp, ten people was chosen to be executed, a Jewish man was in that list and cried because he had a wife and children. So Maximilian Kolbe volunteered to take his place. The Nazis went after the Jews but the Polish people did not fare well during the war. According to wikianswers, 3 million Catholic Polish people died under the Nazis regime.


How do you even post something like this?


And this for example - " There is a Holocaust memorial in Liberty State Park, also a prime location. If the park were to relocate this memorial, I am sure there would be outrage."

On Fulop's twitter feed the nazis and white power contingent used the same argument.

Yvonne feeds off anger, racism, fear, and misery. She's toxic.


No, you're toxic for regurgitating the old trope about twitter nazis and white power.

It was Fulop who first played the Holocaust card by calling the Polish Senator anti-semite and Holocaust denier, bringing the whole discourse to the gutter level.

Therefore, the hypothetical example of moving a Holocaust memorial is absolutely fair game, and a high-road one at that compared to the Fulop utterance.

Posted on: 5/15 12:54
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Yvonne wrote:

This is not about me nicky, although I do have a great deal of respect for the Polish people. I actually remember reading about St. Maximum Kolbe who gave his life for a Jewish man about to be executed by the Nazi. Kolbe was a Catholic priest who wrote articles condemning Nazis for rounding up Jewish people. When someone escaped from a Nazi camp, ten people was chosen to be executed, a Jewish man was in that list and cried because he had a wife and children. So Maximilian Kolbe volunteered to take his place. The Nazis went after the Jews but the Polish people did not fare well during the war. According to wikianswers, 3 million Catholic Polish people died under the Nazis regime.


How do you even post something like this?


And this for example - " There is a Holocaust memorial in Liberty State Park, also a prime location. If the park were to relocate this memorial, I am sure there would be outrage."

On Fulop's twitter feed the nazis and white power contingent used the same argument.

Yvonne feeds off anger, racism, fear, and misery. She's toxic.

Posted on: 5/15 11:17
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the statue is still staying very close to its original location. the uproar over moving it 60 meters away is laughable

Posted on: 5/15 11:02
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Yvonne wrote:

This is not about me nicky, although I do have a great deal of respect for the Polish people. I actually remember reading about St. Maximum Kolbe who gave his life for a Jewish man about to be executed by the Nazi. Kolbe was a Catholic priest who wrote articles condemning Nazis for rounding up Jewish people. When someone escaped from a Nazi camp, ten people was chosen to be executed, a Jewish man was in that list and cried because he had a wife and children. So Maximilian Kolbe volunteered to take his place. The Nazis went after the Jews but the Polish people did not fare well during the war. According to wikianswers, 3 million Catholic Polish people died under the Nazis regime.


How do you even post something like this?

Posted on: 5/15 10:24
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“The people who actually built this monument, who actually put the blood and sweat into it, agreed to it,” said Polish Consul General Maciej Golubiewski. “They think it’s the best solution, the best compromise.”

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/05/14/jersey-city-katyn-memorial/


Posted on: 5/14 23:48
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The insane Polish netizen over-reaction about the statue is hilarious on Fulop's twit page. He must have half the trolls of Poland harassing him.

Posted on: 5/14 22:56
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oreoz wrote:
I have to say - I think the mayor botched his handling of this one. He could have announced this end result without all the in between drama and there'd probably be a lot less of it. Now he's somehow managed to piss off people from all sides. At the end it will all probably be swept under the rug (and the end result sounds like a good compromise), but it's not a good look.

But Yvonne - I'm curious as to your sudden change of position. You were one of the strongest supporters of moving the statue at the beginning of this thread, giving all sorts of reasons. Why the sudden change? Is it just because you found yourself on the same side as the mayor you despise? Seems a bit odd.


I said this at the council meeting and my position has not change, I am a supporter of American history plain and simple. However, I heard the mayor speak several times on the radio and I was stunned by his comments. There is a Holocaust memorial in Liberty State Park, also a prime location. If the park were to relocate this memorial, I am sure there would be outrage. No ethnic group should be treated any differently, Mayor Fulop owes the Polish community an apology. He does not get a free pass for his comments. Personally, the mayor has embarrassed the city with his comments so this monument should stay. The fact he did not reach out to the Polish community before this is outrageous. Even the NAACP supports the Polish community in their fight.

Posted on: 5/14 19:10
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dr_nick_riviera wrote:

Just another example of her ability to lie and change position on literally any subject. She was for it originally because of her "only American events should get monuments" nonsense in addition to her general toxic NIMBYism (if it's not a parking garage, it's useless). She changed position and became against it after it blew up in the mayor's face and her minions started filing lawsuits. In the end, nobody will remember this whole thing in a couple of months and Yvonne will have once again been served a humiliating loss.





Posted on: 5/14 19:06
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oreoz wrote:
I have to say - I think the mayor botched his handling of this one. He could have announced this end result without all the in between drama and there'd probably be a lot less of it. Now he's somehow managed to piss off people from all sides. At the end it will all probably be swept under the rug (and the end result sounds like a good compromise), but it's not a good look.

But Yvonne - I'm curious as to your sudden change of position. You were one of the strongest supporters of moving the statue at the beginning of this thread, giving all sorts of reasons. Why the sudden change? Is it just because you found yourself on the same side as the mayor you despise? Seems a bit odd.


Just another example of her ability to lie and change position on literally any subject. She was for it originally because of her "only American events should get monuments" nonsense in addition to her general toxic NIMBYism (if it's not a parking garage, it's useless). She changed position and became against it after it blew up in the mayor's face and her minions started filing lawsuits. In the end, nobody will remember this whole thing in a couple of months and Yvonne will have once again been served a humiliating loss.

Posted on: 5/14 18:40
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But Yvonne - I'm curious as to your sudden change of position. You were one of the strongest supporters of moving the statue at the beginning of this thread, giving all sorts of reasons. Why the sudden change? Is it just because you found yourself on the same side as the mayor you despise? Seems a bit odd.





Posted on: 5/14 18:22
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