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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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FULOP>>>>making it RAIN for the NEXT THREE DAYS!!! And no respect for HIGH QUALITY VINYL SIDING!

Posted on: 5/12 18:30
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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FULOP>>>>Bringing JC TaxPayers MORE LAWSUITS to Pay 4
JOY

https://www.documentcloud.org/document ... aty-monument-lawsuit.html

Posted on: 5/12 17:43
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HeightsNative wrote:
Yay!! More shady backroom deals made without our city council! All hail the god-king xer...I mean Fulop!


Fulop In His Own Words::: such a Class Act in representing :::
https://twitter.com/StevenFulop/status/992130974698934272
https://twitter.com/StevenFulop/status/992158375361351680

Posted on: 5/12 17:39
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Yay!! More shady backroom deals made without our city council! All hail the god-king xer...I mean Fulop!

Posted on: 5/12 8:08
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“I met w/Eric Lubaczewski + senior officials from the Polish Govt + we have a resolution as a win-win. The goal was one that respects/cares/keeps the monument in an extremely prominent location to honor sacrifices while also giving #JerseyCity a chance to re-purpose our waterfront,” Fulop tweeted about an hour ago.






Posted on: 5/12 8:04
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By John Heinis/Hudson County View

Jersey City has reached a “resolution” that will keep the Katyn memorial in “an extremely prominent location” just three days after a federal lawsuit was filed to keep the statue at Exchange Place, according to Mayor Steven Fulop. '

“I met w/Eric Lubaczewski + senior officials from the Polish Govt + we have a resolution as a win-win. The goal was one that respects/cares/keeps the monument in an extremely prominent location to honor sacrifices while also giving #JerseyCity a chance to re-purpose our waterfront,” Fulop tweeted about an hour ago.

While the mayor did not provide any further details on social media, an earlier tweet from Consul General of the Republic of Poland in New York Maciej Golubiewski provided a little more clarity on the matter.

“There is an agreement with @StevenFulop. The monument will be on the waterfront 60 meters from the place where it is now. Thank you Erykowi Lubaczewskiemu,” he wrote in Polish.

Lubaczewski, the man being credited by both sides for brokering the deal, is the executive director of the Polish American Chamber of Commerce.

Yesterday, Fulop released an artist’s rendering of the new vision for Exchange Place: a children’s playground, a spray park, green space and an area for a stage area to accommodate live performances.

Posted on: 5/11 19:17
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JPhurst wrote:
Another sculpture by Pitynski, "The Partisans" was moved from its original location in Boston and rededicated. I don't see why this would be any different.


It Is Completely Different......the Katyn Monument was further dedicated to the 9-11 Massacre of WTC Twin Towers based upon its current location & needs to stay where it is !!!

Posted on: 5/11 16:11
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Plan released for park that started Polish statue outrage

Updated 12:02 PM; Posted 10:49 AM
By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY — Jersey City has unveiled the initial plans for a city park at Exchange Place, a proposal that sparked controversy over the planned removal of a statue commemorating a World War II-era Polish massacre.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... k.html#incart_river_index



.

Posted on: 5/11 14:17
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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JPhurst wrote:
Another sculpture by Pitynski, "The Partisans" was moved from its original location in Boston and rededicated. I don't see why this would be any different.


It is different. Read the article below:

"The sculpture was loaned to the city in 1983 and plunked down near the corner of Charles and Beacon streets and never reclaimed."

from:
https://www.mbta.com/news/2006-09-07/p ... s-finds-home-south-boston

Posted on: 5/10 11:07
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JPhurst wrote:
Another sculpture by Pitynski, "The Partisans" was moved from its original location in Boston and rededicated. I don't see why this would be any different.


Without looking that up, I'm pretty confident the mayor of Boston didn't lie and insult the polish people in doing so. I doubt the mayor of Boston told the people it was a temporary move, then a permanent move, and have a develop call his art "grotesque". Im also pretty confident the mayor Boston probably didn't implicate all of Poland in being complicit in the holocaust.

But yeah, same thing I guess.

Posted on: 5/10 11:01
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Another sculpture by Pitynski, "The Partisans" was moved from its original location in Boston and rededicated. I don't see why this would be any different.

Posted on: 5/10 10:39
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HeightsNative wrote:

"What is not up for debate is Fulops (sic) handling of the situation... outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump.


For Fulop's tweets to be "bigotry", the opinions he's opposed to would have to be legitimate in your view. You're down with holocaust denial and anti-semitism?


Fulop is lying when he says that Speaker of the Polish Senate Stanislaw Karczewski is a Holocaust denier and an anti-semite.

Flat-out lie, meant to raise the stakes and piss everybody off even more.

Had he been a Republican he would have been held accountable. However I doubt he will.

Posted on: 5/10 0:20
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JSleeze wrote:
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HeightsNative wrote:

"What is not up for debate is Fulops (sic) handling of the situation... outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump.


For Fulop's tweets to be "bigotry", the opinions he's opposed to would have to be legitimate in your view. You're down with holocaust denial and anti-semitism?


Fulop is lying when he says that Speaker of the Polish Senate Stanislaw Karczewski is a Holocaust denier and an anti-semite.

Flat-out lie, meant to raise the stakes and piss everybody off even more.


Posted on: 5/9 23:12
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Being of Polish decent and a life long Jersey City Resident. I feel the Katyn Memorial should be moved. As an American first and foremost,I feel we should honor Americans and their accomplishments. I feel we should not be changing names of streets and erecting statues of people who never resided in this country. Only exception would be if they helped this country in some significant way.

Posted on: 5/9 13:56
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I liked the idea of the tip of Morris Canal Park though. That's a dramatic setting for a dramatic statue.

.


Tip of Morris Canal Park makes too much sense for it to happen.

If Fulop played it right, approached the community in the right way, explained the rationale, I bet the move to that location would have been accepted. Not to the fuking median and not because I told you so, and certainly not because Poles are anti-semites or whatever slur he used.

He handled it in the worst possible way.

His conduct does not give me any confidence in Senator Fulop or whatever political office he will be aspiring to.

Boss Daddy Fulop and his cohorts is what Needs to GO !!

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/05/0 ... al-statue-in-jersey-city/


Is that you, Jeff?

Posted on: 5/9 13:39
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"What is not up for debate is Fulops (sic) handling of the situation... outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump.


For Fulop's tweets to be "bigotry", the opinions he's opposed to would have to be legitimate in your view. You're down with holocaust denial and anti-semitism?

Posted on: 5/9 13:37
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Well, the world is a scary and gruesome place. Are you really this afraid or unable to have a discussion with your children? Really? God help the next generation of over protected, soft kids with their helicopter parents.

By the way, using the SLEB to support a position isn't exactly in the positive column. Just saying.

Posted on: 5/9 10:52
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Looking forward to the gruesome statue being replaced by a park. The Star-Ledger Editorial Board agrees that it should be moved.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... the_man_being_impale.html

How to talk to your kid about the man being impaled on Jersey City's waterfront
Updated May 7; Posted May 7

By Star-Ledger Editorial Board eletters@starledger.com
We don't need to be our kids' best friends, but it's nice to ask your little one about his or her day while strolling along Jersey City's scenic waterfront.

The "man being stabbed in the back," though, is one subject many parents prefer to put off while their child is still in preschool. What do you say when it inevitably comes up?

No. The answer is, you shouldn't have to talk about a 34-foot-high man getting impaled on Jersey City's waterfront.

The statue was unveiled at Exchange Place in 1991.

On this, reasonable people can agree: The soldier with an enormous bayoneted rifle sticking out of his back is perhaps the most gruesome statue we have ever seen.

It memorializes the massacre of 22,000 Poles by the Soviets in 1940, some buried in mass graves in the Katyn Forest.

This, we should never forget. We memorialize atrocities so they are never repeated. We are horrified by this, just as we are by the people shot at Tiananmen Square.

But we don't necessarily want to see a statue of a man with his head being blown off along the Jersey City waterfront, either.

Still, prominent Poles were offended when a developer renovating the waterfront suggested the statue find a new home, because it's "a little gruesome."

This has since blown up into an international incident, Terrence McDonald of the Jersey Journal reports, and a top story in Poland.

The Polish artist who created the statue, Andrzej Pitynski, called the developer a "schmuck."

"After 30 years some businessman with big money comes and he tries to dictate," Pitynski told the Journal. "Who this f***ing guy is? The hell with him."

The speaker of Poland's Senate, Stanislaw Karczewski, said the idea of relocating the statue is "scandalous," and "a very unpleasant situation for us."

Jersey City's mayor, Steve Fulop, hasn't said whether it will be moved permanently - his preference - but fired back on Twitter that Karczewski is a "joke," a "known anti-Semite, white nationalist + holocaust denier" with "no credibility."

He added: "The only unpleasant thing is Senator Stanislaw. Period."

Back to the statue. The head of the group that commissioned it, Krzysztof Nowak, thinks we should design the entire waterfront park around it.

"You want to put a couple of benches around the monument? Put a couple of benches around the monument," he said.

Another option would be not to design a major city park around a man being impaled, and instead, move the statue to a museum. Anyone?

Poland's ambassador, Piotr Wilczek, also thinks the statue should stay where it is. Bayonne's mayor, seeking re-election in a city with a sizable number of Poles, offered to take it.

Here's where we stand: Respect the Polish and teach your kids about Katyn - but please, don't put a man being impaled in front of the New York City skyline.

Posted on: 5/9 10:50
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brewster wrote:
I liked the idea of the tip of Morris Canal Park though. That's a dramatic setting for a dramatic statue.

.


Tip of Morris Canal Park makes too much sense for it to happen.

If Fulop played it right, approached the community in the right way, explained the rationale, I bet the move to that location would have been accepted. Not to the fuking median and not because I told you so, and certainly not because Poles are anti-semites or whatever slur he used.

He handled it in the worst possible way.

His conduct does not give me any confidence in Senator Fulop or whatever political office he will be aspiring to.

Boss Daddy Fulop and his cohorts is what Needs to GO !!

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/05/0 ... al-statue-in-jersey-city/

Posted on: 5/9 10:17
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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brewster wrote:
I liked the idea of the tip of Morris Canal Park though. That's a dramatic setting for a dramatic statue.

.


Tip of Morris Canal Park makes too much sense for it to happen.

If Fulop played it right, approached the community in the right way, explained the rationale, I bet the move to that location would have been accepted. Not to the fuking median and not because I told you so, and certainly not because Poles are anti-semites or whatever slur he used.

He handled it in the worst possible way.

His conduct does not give me any confidence in Senator Fulop or whatever political office he will be aspiring to.

Posted on: 5/9 8:55
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ecinjc wrote:
I love the statue.

I actually have no idea why the mayor is going down this path antagonizing Polish people. He needs to apologize. Also, Let the public have some mechanism for input on the SID for exchange place. Developers can’t just have a free hand on public space. Every candidate in Ward E ran against the unchecked power of developers.

It’s cool art and not divisive. It’s a monument to a terrible event perpetrated by a dictator. That Russia denied until 2010. The reason we need reminders and dialogue is tha people forget how monstrous Hitler and Stalin were. My kids are privileged. They feel protected. But I bet many middle class soldiers and Jews felt safe before WW2. Atrocities happen and we have remember them.


Well said. It's always refreshing when people think outside of their bubbles, safe spaces and echo chambers.

Posted on: 5/9 7:51
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I love the statue. I actually have no idea why the mayor is going down this path antagonizing Polish people. He needs to apologize. Also, Let the public have some mechanism for input on the SID for exchange place. Developers can’t just have a free hand on public space. Every candidate in Ward E ran against the unchecked power of developers. It’s cool art and not divisive. It’s a monument to a terrible event perpetrated by a dictator. That Russia denied until 2010. The reason we need reminders and dialogue is tha people forget how monstrous Hitler and Stalin were. My kids are privileged. They feel protected. But I bet many middle class soldiers and Jews felt safe before WW2. Atrocities happen and we have remember them.

Posted on: 5/9 7:45
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brewster wrote:
It must be endtimes, when even Gerry McCann sounds sensible on a subject. But LSP is obviously state land, and JC cannot make that choice. I liked the idea of the tip of Morris Canal Park though. That's a dramatic setting for a dramatic statue.

As for what to replace it with, how about a fucking flagpole and Old Glory? A symbol of unity rather than the endless divisive identity politics we currently suffer from all sides. No factions or niche constituencies, just US, the USA.


100% agreed with this! I am always surprised, and dismayed, by the dearth of US flags in this area. I have lived in so many other parts of the country where the flag is proudly flown in common/public areas, as well as outside of private residences. The "identity politics" of this region are so provincial... and, as you indicate, also divisive.

Posted on: 5/9 4:02
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HCResident wrote:
If I’m correct, it’s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That’s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it’s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.


To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.


AGREE +++

Posted on: 5/9 3:06
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brewster wrote:
It must be endtimes, when even Gerry McCann sounds sensible on a subject. But LSP is obviously state land, and JC cannot make that choice. I liked the idea of the tip of Morris Canal Park though. That's a dramatic setting for a dramatic statue.

As for what to replace it with, how about a fucking flagpole and Old Glory? A symbol of unity rather than the endless divisive identity politics we currently suffer from all sides. No factions or niche constituencies, just US, the USA.



impossible / Morris Canal Park is occupied with a Korean War Memorial and lots of 30 somethings who have dogs in lieu of raising their own children....



Posted on: 5/8 23:23
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Federal lawsuit targets plan to move Polish massacre statue

JERSEY CITY – Four people filed a lawsuit in Newark federal court on Tuesday morning aimed at stopping a plan to remove the Exchange Place monument commemorating the victims of a 1940 Polish massacre.

The lawsuit alleges Jersey City and Mayor Steve Fulop do not have authority to remove the 34-foot Katyn Memorial because the City Council has not approved any relocation. The plaintiffs – Bart Bagniewski, Boguslava Wang, Slawek Platta, and sculptor Andrzej Pityank – are seeking a temporary restraining order stopping the city from moving the monument.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... removal_of_polish_ma.html


Posted on: 5/8 23:20
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It must be endtimes, when even Gerry McCann sounds sensible on a subject. But LSP is obviously state land, and JC cannot make that choice. I liked the idea of the tip of Morris Canal Park though. That's a dramatic setting for a dramatic statue.

As for what to replace it with, how about a fucking flagpole and Old Glory? A symbol of unity rather than the endless divisive identity politics we currently suffer from all sides. No factions or niche constituencies, just US, the USA.

Posted on: 5/8 22:35
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HeightsNative wrote:
Of course. As we all do. If you don't care, then why comment? Or maybe you actually contribute to the discussion instead of offering a dismissive response when challenged.

Quote:

HCResident wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
If I’m correct, it’s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That’s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it’s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.


To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.


I don’t care.


Then you should keep quiet.


No, I have an opinion, and the right to express it. If you don’t like it, too bad.


I’m sorry, my bad. Maybe I wasn’t clear about what I don’t care about. I don’t care about the whole “this is all about Fulop” argument.

I don’t care about everyone’s uproar about moving it. I don’t care about all the drama.

I think it’s ugly. I’ve always thought it should be moved. And considering that they are only moving it (not removing it), and it’s only moving two blocks, I think it’s all much ado about nothing.

If you wish to keep fanning the outrage machine, go for it. I don’t care about that either.

Posted on: 5/8 22:31
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Of course. As we all do. If you don't care, then why comment? Or maybe you actually contribute to the discussion instead of offering a dismissive response when challenged.

Quote:

HCResident wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
If I’m correct, it’s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That’s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it’s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.


To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.


I don’t care.


Then you should keep quiet.


No, I have an opinion, and the right to express it. If you don’t like it, too bad.

Posted on: 5/8 22:16
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HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
If I’m correct, it’s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That’s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it’s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.


To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.


I don’t care.


Then you should keep quiet.


No, I have an opinion, and the right to express it. If you don’t like it, too bad.

Posted on: 5/8 22:03
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