Federal lawsuit targets plan to move Polish massacre statue

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

#223

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Well, the world is a scary and gruesome place. Are you really this afraid or unable to have a discussion with your children? Really? God help the next generation of over protected, soft kids with their helicopter parents.

By the way, using the SLEB to support a position isn't exactly in the positive column. Just saying.

Posted on: 2018/5/9 14:52

SOS

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Looking forward to the gruesome statue being replaced by a park. The Star-Ledger Editorial Board agrees that it should be moved.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... the_man_being_impale.html

How to talk to your kid about the man being impaled on Jersey City's waterfront
Updated May 7; Posted May 7

By Star-Ledger Editorial Board eletters@starledger.com
We don't need to be our kids' best friends, but it's nice to ask your little one about his or her day while strolling along Jersey City's scenic waterfront.

The "man being stabbed in the back," though, is one subject many parents prefer to put off while their child is still in preschool. What do you say when it inevitably comes up?

No. The answer is, you shouldn't have to talk about a 34-foot-high man getting impaled on Jersey City's waterfront.

The statue was unveiled at Exchange Place in 1991.

On this, reasonable people can agree: The soldier with an enormous bayoneted rifle sticking out of his back is perhaps the most gruesome statue we have ever seen.

It memorializes the massacre of 22,000 Poles by the Soviets in 1940, some buried in mass graves in the Katyn Forest.

This, we should never forget. We memorialize atrocities so they are never repeated. We are horrified by this, just as we are by the people shot at Tiananmen Square.

But we don't necessarily want to see a statue of a man with his head being blown off along the Jersey City waterfront, either.

Still, prominent Poles were offended when a developer renovating the waterfront suggested the statue find a new home, because it's "a little gruesome."

This has since blown up into an international incident, Terrence McDonald of the Jersey Journal reports, and a top story in Poland.

The Polish artist who created the statue, Andrzej Pitynski, called the developer a "schmuck."

"After 30 years some businessman with big money comes and he tries to dictate," Pitynski told the Journal. "Who this f***ing guy is? The hell with him."

The speaker of Poland's Senate, Stanislaw Karczewski, said the idea of relocating the statue is "scandalous," and "a very unpleasant situation for us."

Jersey City's mayor, Steve Fulop, hasn't said whether it will be moved permanently - his preference - but fired back on Twitter that Karczewski is a "joke," a "known anti-Semite, white nationalist + holocaust denier" with "no credibility."

He added: "The only unpleasant thing is Senator Stanislaw. Period."

Back to the statue. The head of the group that commissioned it, Krzysztof Nowak, thinks we should design the entire waterfront park around it.

"You want to put a couple of benches around the monument? Put a couple of benches around the monument," he said.

Another option would be not to design a major city park around a man being impaled, and instead, move the statue to a museum. Anyone?

Poland's ambassador, Piotr Wilczek, also thinks the statue should stay where it is. Bayonne's mayor, seeking re-election in a city with a sizable number of Poles, offered to take it.

Here's where we stand: Respect the Polish and teach your kids about Katyn - but please, don't put a man being impaled in front of the New York City skyline.

Posted on: 2018/5/9 14:50

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Quote:

stillinjc wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
I liked the idea of the tip of Morris Canal Park though. That's a dramatic setting for a dramatic statue.

.

Tip of Morris Canal Park makes too much sense for it to happen.

If Fulop played it right, approached the community in the right way, explained the rationale, I bet the move to that location would have been accepted. Not to the fuking median and not because I told you so, and certainly not because Poles are anti-semites or whatever slur he used.

He handled it in the worst possible way.

His conduct does not give me any confidence in Senator Fulop or whatever political office he will be aspiring to.

Boss Daddy Fulop and his cohorts is what Needs to GO !!

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/05/0 ... al-statue-in-jersey-city/

Posted on: 2018/5/9 14:17

stillinjc

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Quote:

brewster wrote:
I liked the idea of the tip of Morris Canal Park though. That's a dramatic setting for a dramatic statue.

.

Tip of Morris Canal Park makes too much sense for it to happen.

If Fulop played it right, approached the community in the right way, explained the rationale, I bet the move to that location would have been accepted. Not to the fuking median and not because I told you so, and certainly not because Poles are anti-semites or whatever slur he used.

He handled it in the worst possible way.

His conduct does not give me any confidence in Senator Fulop or whatever political office he will be aspiring to.

Posted on: 2018/5/9 12:55

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Quote:

ecinjc wrote:
I love the statue.

I actually have no idea why the mayor is going down this path antagonizing Polish people. He needs to apologize. Also, Let the public have some mechanism for input on the SID for exchange place. Developers can?t just have a free hand on public space. Every candidate in Ward E ran against the unchecked power of developers.

It?s cool art and not divisive. It?s a monument to a terrible event perpetrated by a dictator. That Russia denied until 2010. The reason we need reminders and dialogue is tha people forget how monstrous Hitler and Stalin were. My kids are privileged. They feel protected. But I bet many middle class soldiers and Jews felt safe before WW2. Atrocities happen and we have remember them.

Well said. It's always refreshing when people think outside of their bubbles, safe spaces and echo chambers.

Posted on: 2018/5/9 11:51

ecinjc

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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I love the statue. I actually have no idea why the mayor is going down this path antagonizing Polish people. He needs to apologize. Also, Let the public have some mechanism for input on the SID for exchange place. Developers can?t just have a free hand on public space. Every candidate in Ward E ran against the unchecked power of developers. It?s cool art and not divisive. It?s a monument to a terrible event perpetrated by a dictator. That Russia denied until 2010. The reason we need reminders and dialogue is tha people forget how monstrous Hitler and Stalin were. My kids are privileged. They feel protected. But I bet many middle class soldiers and Jews felt safe before WW2. Atrocities happen and we have remember them.

Posted on: 2018/5/9 11:45

bodhipooh

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Quote:

brewster wrote:
It must be endtimes, when even Gerry McCann sounds sensible on a subject. But LSP is obviously state land, and JC cannot make that choice. I liked the idea of the tip of Morris Canal Park though. That's a dramatic setting for a dramatic statue.

As for what to replace it with, how about a fucking flagpole and Old Glory? A symbol of unity rather than the endless divisive identity politics we currently suffer from all sides. No factions or niche constituencies, just US, the USA.

100% agreed with this! I am always surprised, and dismayed, by the dearth of US flags in this area. I have lived in so many other parts of the country where the flag is proudly flown in common/public areas, as well as outside of private residences. The "identity politics" of this region are so provincial... and, as you indicate, also divisive.

Posted on: 2018/5/9 8:02

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... removal_of_polish_ma.html

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
If I?m correct, it?s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That?s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it?s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.

To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.

AGREE +++

Posted on: 2018/5/9 7:06

iGreg

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Quote:

brewster wrote:
It must be endtimes, when even Gerry McCann sounds sensible on a subject. But LSP is obviously state land, and JC cannot make that choice. I liked the idea of the tip of Morris Canal Park though. That's a dramatic setting for a dramatic statue.

As for what to replace it with, how about a fucking flagpole and Old Glory? A symbol of unity rather than the endless divisive identity politics we currently suffer from all sides. No factions or niche constituencies, just US, the USA.

impossible / Morris Canal Park is occupied with a Korean War Memorial and lots of 30 somethings who have dogs in lieu of raising their own children....

Posted on: 2018/5/9 3:23

Stringer

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Federal lawsuit targets plan to move Polish massacre statue

By Caitlin Mota - The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY – Four people filed a lawsuit in Newark federal court on Tuesday morning aimed at stopping a plan to remove the Exchange Place monument commemorating the victims of a 1940 Polish massacre.

The lawsuit alleges Jersey City and Mayor Steve Fulop do not have authority to remove the 34-foot Katyn Memorial because the City Council has not approved any relocation. The plaintiffs – Bart Bagniewski, Boguslava Wang, Slawek Platta, and sculptor Andrzej Pityank – are seeking a temporary restraining order stopping the city from moving the monument.

Posted on: 2018/5/9 3:20

brewster

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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It must be endtimes, when even Gerry McCann sounds sensible on a subject. But LSP is obviously state land, and JC cannot make that choice. I liked the idea of the tip of Morris Canal Park though. That's a dramatic setting for a dramatic statue.

As for what to replace it with, how about a fucking flagpole and Old Glory? A symbol of unity rather than the endless divisive identity politics we currently suffer from all sides. No factions or niche constituencies, just US, the USA.

Posted on: 2018/5/9 2:35

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Of course. As we all do. If you don't care, then why comment? Or maybe you actually contribute to the discussion instead of offering a dismissive response when challenged.

Quote:

HCResident wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
If I?m correct, it?s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That?s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it?s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.

To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.

I don?t care.

Then you should keep quiet.

No, I have an opinion, and the right to express it. If you don?t like it, too bad.

I?m sorry, my bad. Maybe I wasn?t clear about what I don?t care about. I don?t care about the whole ?this is all about Fulop? argument.

I don?t care about everyone?s uproar about moving it. I don?t care about all the drama.

I think it?s ugly. I?ve always thought it should be moved. And considering that they are only moving it (not removing it), and it?s only moving two blocks, I think it?s all much ado about nothing.

If you wish to keep fanning the outrage machine, go for it. I don?t care about that either.

Posted on: 2018/5/9 2:31

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Of course. As we all do. If you don't care, then why comment? Or maybe you actually contribute to the discussion instead of offering a dismissive response when challenged.

Quote:

HCResident wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
If I?m correct, it?s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That?s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it?s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.

To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.

I don?t care.

Then you should keep quiet.

No, I have an opinion, and the right to express it. If you don?t like it, too bad.

Posted on: 2018/5/9 2:16

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
If I?m correct, it?s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That?s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it?s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.

To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.

I don?t care.

Then you should keep quiet.

No, I have an opinion, and the right to express it. If you don?t like it, too bad.

Posted on: 2018/5/9 2:03

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

#209

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Quote:

HCResident wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
If I?m correct, it?s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That?s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it?s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.

To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.

I don?t care.

Then you should keep quiet.

Posted on: 2018/5/9 1:59

iGreg

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Interesting:

Letters To The Editor
The Jersey Journal

Liberty State Park better place for statue

It is interesting that Senator Lesniak is now concerned about the Katyn Memorial Statue in the Exchange Place area of Jersey City. The reason I note this is that he was not there when it was installed or dedicated.

Mayor Anthony Cucci was not there also. I was there because I was the mayor and had expressed opposition to it being there even then. This statue had only one purpose for Mayor Cucci and that was politics. It did not work since he was defeated overwhelmingly in 1989 coming in 4th place in a field of 10. As a result, he did not show up for the dedication of the statue.

Another glaring abuse of power was when the Grundy Park was dedicated and operating, I was the mayor. In 1990, Mayor Cucci put his name on a plaque taking credit for a park he had absolutely nothing to do with. It took us two years just to get the permit to put the park over the water. Councilman Cucci opposed all the development of the waterfront including everything in the Exchange Place area.

When he became mayor though he started solely the residential tax abatement boom that damaged the economy that I had envisioned. I opposed tax abatement in Newport except for the commercial development. Once the residential tax abatements started it was never stopped. It was not needed then at all. It was the greed of the property owners that caused the problems.

We sold Lefrak the land for mostly $5,000 an acre plus he received a $40 million Urban Development Action Grant from the city to pay for infrastructure. Lefrak has done a great job in the development but he also made billions in return. He does not need tax abatements any longer.

The statue's original location was further up on Montgomery Street which the city ordinance provided. The momentum for the present location was falsely initiated by the statue committee. The statue should be removed from the present location because it never had legal authority to be there in the first place.

A much more appropriate location would be in Liberty State Park where millions of people visit every year. Exchange Place is a business district and transportation hub. Although the horrors of the event may serve as a historical fact, it has nothing to do with Jersey City or even America. There have been atrocities all over the world before and after Katyn.

This is turning into a political battle which was its original purpose that most people who were there then no longer are concerned. I do not know Mr. DeMarco but his logic is sound. Senator Lesniak's comparison to the cross of Jesus Christ is a very disrespectful statement. The cross is a symbol of Christ's sacrifice for even Lesniak.

Far more Ukrainians, Jews and common Polish people were killed than the Polish military officers the statue is depicted to represent. The Russian people also suffered millions in losses because of the war to fight Nazism. President Putin was not even born when this happened, but somehow Lesniak even connected him to the statue.

Senator Lesniak should keep his politics in Union County and Elizabeth and let Jersey City decide what is best for Jersey City. Poland's future President Lech Walesa's father lived here in Jersey City at the time and even he was not at the dedication. He was with Ronald Reagan though at Liberty State Park in 1980.

Gerald McCann, former mayor of Jersey City

Posted on: 2018/5/9 1:49

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

HCResident wrote:
If I?m correct, it?s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That?s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it?s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.

To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.

I don?t care.

Posted on: 2018/5/9 1:26

stillinjc

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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I can't believe the sculptor goes by "Audrey".

Posted on: 2018/5/9 0:44

jerseymom

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Judge Grants Temporary Stay On Plans To Remove Controversial Statue In Jersey City
May 8, 2018 at 7:26 pm

JERSEY CITY, N.J. (CBSNewYork) ? A judge on Tuesday granted a temporary stay on plans to remove a statue that?s been the source of controversy due to its graphic nature.

It stands in Jersey City, and depicts a scene of violence in an effort to honor fallen soldiers.

More

Read the Lawsuit

Posted on: 2018/5/9 0:16

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Quote:

HCResident wrote:
If I?m correct, it?s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That?s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it?s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.

To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.

Posted on: 2018/5/8 23:40

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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If I?m correct, it?s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That?s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it?s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.

Posted on: 2018/5/8 22:30

SOS

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Steve Fulop on radio 101.5 this morning discussing Katyn memorial -

https://youtu.be/uZvPhKl1wFs

Posted on: 2018/5/8 20:35

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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U P D A T E

Boggiano interviewed at beginning & Actual Press Conference start @14:46 time marker

https://www.facebook.com/MyMinute/videos/2089063394457132/

Posted on: 2018/5/8 19:47

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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2 more Lawsuits for JC taxes to defend, brought to you by Mayor Fulop's Outrageous & Insulting Behavior !

......https://www.facebook.com/pg/MyMinute/videos/?ref=page_internal [starts at 14:46 marker]

Posted on: 2018/5/8 17:39

TheBigGuy

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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Interesting noontime presser.... curious if the new hotel in Exchange Place had an influence on the removal? Was there some sort of sweetheart deal to remove the statue as part of the hotel construction plan, once it opened?

Let's not forget the statue is in across from the NYC 911 Memorial and the 1848 Irish Famine Memorial. That Memorial is a across from The Conrad. Not sure it is a bad thing to educate people about the history of the neighborhood they are visiting. Isn't that what the Colgate clock is about?

Posted on: 2018/5/8 17:08

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

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LOL, you're a funny guy. What does any of this have to do with how horribly your boy Fulop has handled this whole situation? Are you seriously trying to defend his Trumpian Twitter storm? Seriously? Is your stance that Steve is being the consumate statesman? You truly are delusional. And you're insutling an entire population by suggesting moving an incredibly important moment to some place out of the way? What is wrong with you? Nevermind, we all know, LOL.

I'll fill you in on something though. When you mute on nj.com, it doesn't keep me from seeing your inane posts and replying to them LOL. It just keeps you from seeing the responses, derp.

One more correction - 80% of the 14% who voted, voted for Steve, LOL. Hardly resounding.

Lastly, I am with you buddy, I am glad Healy and Mats are gone from JC politics. Never voted for them, never will. I am not sure why you keep repeating such drivel, but you do. Talk about creepy!

Quote:

neverleft wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
It's a disaster because steve has handled this in an incredibly crass, rude and insensitive way. A way that is completely unbecoming of a mayor of a city like JC. Please stop copying and pasting the same nonsense as well. Your comments are equally disgusting in defense of your idol. We get it, he can do no wrong in your eyes. Even I am being respectful in this, despite our personal animosity.

As I have stated before you are the biggest douchbag I have ever encountered. Not only have you been stalking me for 2 years on nj.com replying to every single post I have written within minutes of me posting them. (around 900 replies directed at me) You actually cloned my Sound Machine name and avatar as Spin Machine. You also follow me around the internet and warn people that I am a big time Fulop supporter. No Duh..80% of JC voters are too.

I am so pleased that nj.com changed its comment section so I could just mute you out like you never existed I wish JCLst would use the same software.

You need help it is so creepy how you follow me around because I said bad things about your guys Healy and his clone Matsikoudis and you are somehow going to get back at me. Get over it ?the names Healy and Matsikoudis are forever gone in JC politics. (except for the memory of the 9 shitty years we had to endure them)

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Posted on: 2018/5/8 16:50

neverleft

Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?

#197

Home away from home

Joined:
2009/10/7 15:46
Last Login :
7/1 0:32

From jersey city

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3377

Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
It's a disaster because steve has handled this in an incredibly crass, rude and insensitive way. A way that is completely unbecoming of a mayor of a city like JC. Please stop copying and pasting the same nonsense as well. Your comments are equally disgusting in defense of your idol. We get it, he can do no wrong in your eyes. Even I am being respectful in this, despite our personal animosity.

As I have stated before you are the biggest douchbag I have ever encountered. Not only have you been stalking me for 2 years on nj.com replying to every single post I have written within minutes of me posting them. (around 900 replies directed at me) You actually cloned my Sound Machine name and avatar as Spin Machine. You also follow me around the internet and warn people that I am a big time Fulop supporter. No Duh..80% of JC voters are too.

I am so pleased that nj.com changed its comment section so I could just mute you out like you never existed I wish JCLst would use the same software.

You need help it is so creepy how you follow me around because I said bad things about your guys Healy and his clone Matsikoudis and you are somehow going to get back at me. Get over it ?the names Healy and Matsikoudis are forever gone in JC politics. (except for the memory of the 9 shitty years we had to endure them)

.

Posted on: 2018/5/8 16:42