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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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I looked again at the configuration for this 11th extension. It is actually technically feasible. To provide enough leading time to drivers, I guesstimate they would have to add an additional right lane to the 78 bridge starting at minimum by newark/division - by enos park. Otherwise, people may miss the exit if it appears during the turn by 10th or later. Coincidently the redevelopment of enos park area is subject to debate right now. Lefrak corp may have an interest in making sure proposed new buildings will not be placed on this/their local highway exit. Btw this highway local exit would have little value in time of backups, e.g. rush-hours.

Posted on: 4/23 18:33
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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What we need is an overpass at the rt 440 and communipaw junction

Posted on: 4/23 15:33
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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elsquid wrote:
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RichMauro wrote:

Could this be "fake news", designed to create a buzz as it already has here on JC List?

First a newspaper article about nothing and then a Facebook illusion?


It's not that, exactly, though I see why you'd suspect that. It's a very real small, moneyed (self-)interest group with a genuine desire to do something monumentally stupid, destructive, futile, and against everything we've belatedly and painfully learned about transportation planning over recent decades.

It's people who want to sell new luxury condos to suckers and rubes who think they're going to have a private driveway from the Turnpike to their homes, avoiding all the car traffic that all us proles endure.

And the scam would succeed, too, if this thing were ever approved, because all the money would change hands before people realized that adding new car capacity in crowded urban areas simply attracts more cars and bigger traffic jams. It's called "induced demand," and is the same reason California spent $4.5 billion to widen a freeway, only to have it jammed up again within a week.

The irony is that drivers would arguably suffer most. Meanwhile, more cars means yet more crashes and violent death, pollution, diseases of pollution and sedentary life, diminished quality of life with more noisy, dirty, shortcutting car traffic, etc., etc., while a precious linear right-of-way, the Bergen Arches, is given at least partially to a form of transit that the city, state, and federal governments are already officially committed to trying to scale back. Idiotic.

If you're looking for a term from the dark arts of PR to describe this ad campaign, it's "astroturfing," a small group of fatcats pretending to be a large, grassroots organization of concerned regular-joe commuters. Yyyyyyeah no.

Anyway, every single person in the downtown neighborhoods, neighborhood associations, the DCNA, Journal Square and its neighborhood associations, safe streets groups, bike groups, mass transit groups ... pretty much everybody, in other words, should call, write, email, and send smoke signals to City Hall and the State House right now and tell them that this heroically irresponsible, selfish and corrupt plan, and this group, need to go away and stay there.

PS: For anyone thinking that this project will provide union/government jobs and/or boost the economy, don't worry, there's a LOT of honest work to be done around here, fixing and maintaining the roads and mass transit infrastructure we already have. But that stuff isn't as easy to give away in sweetheart contracts to your cronies, or name after your dead fixer father, or cut a ribbon for a cool photo op.

Don't be fooled.




Great, insightful response, well developed thought. I wish that the reporter who planted this story did a little follow up, instead of leaving us hanging on a road to nowhere.

Posted on: 4/23 15:00
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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RichMauro wrote:

Could this be "fake news", designed to create a buzz as it already has here on JC List?

First a newspaper article about nothing and then a Facebook illusion?


It's not that, exactly, though I see why you'd suspect that. It's a very real small, moneyed (self-)interest group with a genuine desire to do something monumentally stupid, destructive, futile, and against everything we've belatedly and painfully learned about transportation planning over recent decades.

It's people who want to sell new luxury condos to suckers and rubes who think they're going to have a private driveway from the Turnpike to their homes, avoiding all the car traffic that all us proles endure.

And the scam would succeed, too, if this thing were ever approved, because all the money would change hands before people realized that adding new car capacity in crowded urban areas simply attracts more cars and bigger traffic jams. It's called "induced demand," and is the same reason California spent $4.5 billion to widen a freeway, only to have it jammed up again within a week.

The irony is that drivers would arguably suffer most. Meanwhile, more cars means yet more crashes and violent death, pollution, diseases of pollution and sedentary life, diminished quality of life with more noisy, dirty, shortcutting car traffic, etc., etc., while a precious linear right-of-way, the Bergen Arches, is given at least partially to a form of transit that the city, state, and federal governments are already officially committed to trying to scale back. Idiotic.

If you're looking for a term from the dark arts of PR to describe this ad campaign, it's "astroturfing," a small group of fatcats pretending to be a large, grassroots organization of concerned regular-joe commuters. Yyyyyyeah no.

Anyway, every single person in the downtown neighborhoods, neighborhood associations, the DCNA, Journal Square and its neighborhood associations, safe streets groups, bike groups, mass transit groups ... pretty much everybody, in other words, should call, write, email, and send smoke signals to City Hall and the State House right now and tell them that this heroically irresponsible, selfish and corrupt plan, and this group, need to go away and stay there.

PS: For anyone thinking that this project will provide union/government jobs and/or boost the economy, don't worry, there's a LOT of honest work to be done around here, fixing and maintaining the roads and mass transit infrastructure we already have. But that stuff isn't as easy to give away in sweetheart contracts to your cronies, or name after your dead fixer father, or cut a ribbon for a cool photo op.

Don't be fooled.



Posted on: 4/23 13:23
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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Fine. If the political masters have decided this is a done deal, I hope NJ Turnpike Authority spends billions building it and has to raise tolls on the entire state. I also hope LeFrak profits by putting up tons of new buildings along the new road and it quickly eats up all the additional capacity and then some.

As I don't drive and believe in growing the ratable base, especially in that no man's land part of town, maybe this isn't such a bad idea after all.


Posted on: 4/15 14:58
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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Frinjc wrote:
I find it very very interesting that this "New Jersey commuter alliance" proposal suddenly appeared on my fb page... This indicates someone paid for it, pretending to represent us. OK, LeFric, err LeFrak I guess, but why? This extension would basically run along your new HP buildings. It may make access somewhat more efficient but who would want to live along an highway extension?


Could this be "fake news", designed to create a buzz as it already has here on JC List?

First a newspaper article about nothing and then a Facebook illusion?

Posted on: 4/15 10:07
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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I find it very very interesting that this "New Jersey commuter alliance" proposal suddenly appeared on my fb page... This indicates someone paid for it, pretending to represent us. OK, LeFric, err LeFrak I guess, but why? This extension would basically run along your new HP buildings. It may make access somewhat more efficient but who would want to live along an highway extension?

Posted on: 4/14 19:30
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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JCGuys wrote:
Money will prevail over this BS. It will be impossible to build because of the costs involved.


http://www.jcvillage.org/wp-content/t ... pjan7upfinalreupdated.pdf

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Posted on: 4/14 18:46
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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Money will prevail over this BS. It will be impossible to build because of the costs involved.

Posted on: 4/14 16:39
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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I just visited Jersey City for the first time in a year. Cars and trucks were still doing 50mph+ on Marin and Washington Blvd. NOTHING has changed except now there are more people for reckless drivers to kill.

Posted on: 4/13 22:13
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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Akin to the Seinfeld "show about nothing", the reporter has written an article based pretty much on nothing:

"A request for comment from New Jersey Commuters Alliance was not returned. Its website includes no contract information and there are no responses to comments from residents made on the group's Twitter and Facebook accounts.

The state Election Law Enforcement Commission says it has no records of a lobbyist registering under that name."

Verrrry interesting.

Posted on: 4/11 18:10
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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Monroe wrote:
JC couldn't set itself up to do that without state ok.

Quite probably. But I do wonder what the limitations are of what JC could do unilaterally. I don't believe Jersey Avenue is a state road so could we put a toll on it Northbound at Grand during morning rush hour? It's not the most effective idea but there's got to be something we can do.

Here's an anecdote about community effect on tolls. In the seventies the toll on the Southern State Parkway in Valley Stream was $0.10 and they raised it to a quarter. Drivers started flooding the local roads to avoid the toll and it became total shitshow resulting in the toll booths being removed entirely. Never say never.

Posted on: 4/11 17:56
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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JC couldn't set itself up to do that without state ok.

Posted on: 4/11 17:31
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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Bike_Lane wrote:
Agree. It's technically simple, institutionally questionable. EZ Pass is just a contractor. It would be up to NJ Turnpike Authority and Port Authority to coordinate and allow EZ Pass to process the data to do this.


Yes, that's the impediment. I would think in theory Jersey City could become another member of the E-Z Pass Consortium of government organizations and set up its own system of fees independent of the PA or NJ TPK. The problem with investing in this sort of system is that the goal isn't to make money but to limit the negative externalities the existing system imposes on downtown.

Posted on: 4/11 17:22
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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K-Lo2 wrote:
Brewster, I expect it can be done as a technical matter. My question is really whether EZ Pass would do the work .


Agree. It's technically simple, institutionally questionable. EZ Pass is just a contractor. It would be up to NJ Turnpike Authority and Port Authority to coordinate and allow EZ Pass to process the data to do this.

Posted on: 4/11 15:49
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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Brewster, I expect it can be done as a technical matter. My question is really whether EZ Pass would do the work .

Posted on: 4/11 15:16
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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I can't imagine the Turnpike Authority agreeing to this. Maybe Fulop should ask for a little Holland Tunnel 'traffic study' by local police?

Posted on: 4/11 14:50
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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K-Lo2 wrote:
Can EZ Pass be tailored for local programming to impose higher pricing for anyone using local roads?


My idea was a penalty for entering the tunnel within a certain time period of exiting any 14ABC ramp other than 12th St. I'm certain it could be done, the only hardware required would be an express type reader on the LSP 14C ramp. In theory it could also be done independently just using plate readers. The question is whether sufficient pressure can be brought, the city and county would have to be supporting it.

Posted on: 4/11 13:49
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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I have been reliably informed that Noble Lester, a representative from the New Jersey Commuters Alliance, attended a recent Hamilton Park NA meeting. By all accounts he knew very little about the plan or Jersey City itself and when pressed as to who hired him he gave up two names.

KC Boyle and George Fontas. These are the two people responsible for the fake New Jersey Commuters Alliance campaign.

KC (Kevin) Boyle works for Hilltop Public Solutions a PR, Lobbying and political consulting firm.

http://hilltoppublicsolutions.com/

"Digital strategy, from social media, to online advertising, to email fundraising and engagement, is critical for any campaign. We’ll help you build your list, activate and mobilize supporters and spread your message online."

"Hilltop provides clients a number of ways to mobilize grassroots using the latest digital and offline tools. Over time, lawmakers and voters alike have earned to tune out generic, cookie-cutter campaigns. That is why Hilltop has developed new ways to organize and breakthrough."

George Fontas has his own firm, Fontas Advisors.

https://www.fontasadvisors.com/

"A boutique government affairs consultancy
Serving the next-generation needs of the companies and organizations operating in, and partnering with, New York City and State."

George is a registered lobbyist for LeFrak.

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https://bmp.nyc.gov/elobbyist/search

Anybody seeking further information about this "shadowy" group could do worse than contacting either KC or George.

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Posted on: 4/11 13:42
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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Can EZ Pass be tailored for local programming to impose higher pricing for anyone using local roads?

Posted on: 4/11 13:34
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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At this point it looks like a fait accompli and the best solution is one previously discussed, using the EZPASS system to penalize anyone using local roads to get to the tunnel.

Posted on: 4/11 12:59
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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stillinjc wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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stillinjc wrote:
BeLa folks will get better access to the emergency services of Jersey City Medical Center. That is sorely needed, even more so with all the development going on there by the Light Rail Station.

Jersey Avenue extension connecting BeLa to DT is a no-brainer, no matter what DT nimbys say.


What? How so?? The distance to the JCMC ER via a theoretical LSP vehicular bridge is the same distance, or longer, from ANY point in BeLa.

And, the Communipaw (or , Johnston) to Pacific to Grand to JCMC route is all right turns, while any route via LSP would include two rail crossings in addition to multiple extra traffic lights and some left turns.


My bad, I thought BeLa extends east of Pacific Ave, where all the development is happening around the Light Rail station. I looked at the map and it seems this area (between Pacific and Turnpike) is not BeLa. Still, whatever the name, very soon this area will be densely developed.


That area IS part of BeLa, but it is a common misconception that the route via LSP would be shorter. It just *seems* that way, but it isn't. At best, it is the same distance point to point.

See below:

300 Communipaw -> JCMC (via Pacific / Grand)
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300 Communipaw -> JCMC (via LSP)
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Posted on: 4/11 11:30
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

stillinjc wrote:
BeLa folks will get better access to the emergency services of Jersey City Medical Center. That is sorely needed, even more so with all the development going on there by the Light Rail Station.

Jersey Avenue extension connecting BeLa to DT is a no-brainer, no matter what DT nimbys say.


What? How so?? The distance to the JCMC ER via a theoretical LSP vehicular bridge is the same distance, or longer, from ANY point in BeLa.

And, the Communipaw (or , Johnston) to Pacific to Grand to JCMC route is all right turns, while any route via LSP would include two rail crossings in addition to multiple extra traffic lights and some left turns.


My bad, I thought BeLa extends east of Pacific Ave, where all the development is happening around the Light Rail station. I looked at the map and it seems this area (between Pacific and Turnpike) is not BeLa. Still, whatever the name, very soon this area will be densely developed.

Posted on: 4/11 10:53
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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Yes this is a done deal.
Take a quick look at Fulop's tweets on the matter.

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Source

Please note that Fulop refers to Newport (LeFrak) pushing for the added lane.

Strange that he knows so little because, as councilman in 2009, he proposed an identical plan.

Excerpts from Hudson Reporter article dated June 7th 2009.

1 - "Downtown City Councilman Steven Fulop has tried to heed the complaints of his constituents on mitigating the increase of vehicles detouring past their homes.

He has also considered and pushed for various initiatives to take automobiles off those one-way streets.

One of the most significant ones he would like to see is a proposed N.J. Turnpike extension or traffic separator down 11th Street in downtown Jersey City linking to the ramp on Jersey Avenue to Newport and the waterfront. This separator would take traffic off the road going to the Holland Tunnel to ease congestion.

“Hopefully, we will have a report back from the Turnpike this summer,” Fulop said. “In five years, we think they will build something that will benefit the residents.”"

2 - "According to Turnpike Authority counts of traffic traveling that route daily to New York during rush hour in 2008, there were 20,300 cars Manhattan bound and 14,700 New Jersey bound (Jersey City waterfront and other local destinations). Also, the Turnpike Authority found in the same traffic counts that 3,400 Manhattan bound cars get off at the 14C – Montgomery Street exit to make a nearly one-mile trip through Downtown as a “back door” entry to the Holland Tunnel. And 13,600 cars exit at Montgomery Street to go to the waterfront and other nearby locales."

3 - "Interested in seeing the separator become a reality is Jamie LeFrak, one of the principals of the Newport Associates Development Company, the builders of Newport and other residential housing in downtown Jersey City:

“From our perspective as the largest owner of homes in Hamilton Park (the Lincoln and Roosevelt apartment buildings), the separator would reduce the number of cars which use the Hamilton Park neighborhood as a back door to the Holland Tunnel and the Waterfront, thus reducing traffic impacts in a residential neighborhood which was never designed to handle the number of dangerous cars which pass through.”"


Source

***

A few months prior to this article, March 10th 2009, Fulop actually gave a presentation to the Village Neighborhood Association touting "the benefits" it could have for The Village.

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Source

Worth noting here that the reference to the NJTPA as the New Jersey Turnpike Authority is incorrect (that's the NJTA). The NJTPA is the North Jersey Transportation Planning Authority.

Here's a few highlights from Fulop's presentation.

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Please note the source - "Raymond Keyes Traffic Study for Jersey City waterfront development EIS 1983"

LeFrak began developing Newport in 1986

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Please note here that the source is NJTPA 2009 traffic demand model.

Also note these are the same statistics used in my second excerpt from the Hudson Reporter article posted above.

Source

Now let's take a look at some highlights from the current 2018 proposal on the New Jersey Commuters Alliance site.

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Note all sources and statistics are the same as Fulop's 2009 proposal.

Source

So I would say that Fulop would have a very good idea who the specific entity is behind this, it would be the same one he was pimping for in 2009.

Further confirmation of NJTPAs involvement -

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Note "...vehicular access to the Hudson County Waterfront"

Source



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There is another reason Fulop should know more than he is saying.

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In 2013 he was actually elected to the NJTPA's board of trustees and is specifically on their Planning and Economic Development Committee. This appears to be automatic as Healy was on the board before him which, is almost entirely made of Mayors, Freeholders, County Executives and NJT and NJTA officials.

So, it looks like the big boys have this one in the bag.
On the hope front I have some good and bad news.

The good news is that of the 20 NJPTA board members, there is one ordinary member, one who is neither a politician nor a transportation official. He is termed the citizen's representative, he is there to represent us ordinary folk and he also happens to be on the Planning and Economic Development Committee.

The bad news is it's Jaime LeFrak.

Resized Image


Source












Posted on: 4/11 10:31
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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stillinjc wrote:
BeLa folks will get better access to the emergency services of Jersey City Medical Center. That is sorely needed, even more so with all the development going on there by the Light Rail Station.

Jersey Avenue extension connecting BeLa to DT is a no-brainer, no matter what DT nimbys say.


What? How so?? The distance to the JCMC ER via a theoretical LSP vehicular bridge is the same distance, or longer, from ANY point in BeLa.

And, the Communipaw (or , Johnston) to Pacific to Grand to JCMC route is all right turns, while any route via LSP would include two rail crossings in addition to multiple extra traffic lights and some left turns.

Posted on: 4/11 10:09
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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BeLa folks will get better access to the emergency services of Jersey City Medical Center. That is sorely needed, even more so with all the development going on there by the Light Rail Station.

Jersey Avenue extension connecting BeLa to DT is a no-brainer, no matter what DT nimbys say.

Posted on: 4/11 9:51
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Monroe wrote:
Won't this shift the Park n Ride exit vehicular traffic to Phillips/Jersey Ave instead of Communipaw/Johnston/Pacific/Grand, as well as having more take LSP exit to Burma/Phillips directly to Jersey? It'll obviously mean a traffic light at the Phillips/Johnston corner, but that's been needed anyway.


A traffic light at the intersection of Phillips/Johnston is DEFINITELY sorely needed. I have had way too many close calls there due to traffic ignoring the STOP sign. Happens all the time, and I have witnessed many close calls.

As for the local traffic and what a new bridge will bring in terms of results, I believe that traffic in BeLa will remain just as bad, but perhaps for a shorter amount of time. In other words, instead of 30 minutes of gridlock, there might be 20 minutes of gridlock. But, traffic conditions will be bad regardless even after the bridge is built.

Traffic is like water in a pool: adding an extra drain does not lessen flow in the original drain. At best, the water (cars) will drain out of the pool (highway) faster, but the drains (the bridges and surface roads) will fill to their max capacity until all water is drained. At best, traffic congestion in local roads is shortened in terms of time. At worst, given increased capacity for traffic flow (more ways to get through JC to the Holland Tunnel) what could end up happening is more people choosing to get off at 14C, and then you end up with traffic just as bad as before, for just as long.

Posted on: 4/11 9:26
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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Are there any pictures or renderings of what is being proposed. I'm having trouble picturing what this group wants to do.

Posted on: 4/11 8:49
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Re: Group wants new highway leading to Jersey City Waterfront
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Won't this shift the Park n Ride exit vehicular traffic to Phillips/Jersey Ave instead of Communipaw/Johnston/Pacific/Grand, as well as having more take LSP exit to Burma/Phillips directly to Jersey? It'll obviously mean a traffic light at the Phillips/Johnston corner, but that's been needed anyway.

Posted on: 4/11 8:10
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This is terrible news for the neighborhood immediately to the west of LSP. As it is, traffic in local streets (particularly Johnston, Communipaw, Pacific, and a few others) is already horrendous in the morning.

Surprisingly (and, sadly) many local residents have advocated for (or, supported) the LSP vehicular bridge under the misguided belief that it will alleviate traffic on local streets.

Posted on: 4/11 7:50
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