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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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MDM wrote:
I've had a back and forth with the wife about cancelling further capital improvements and just selling everything, except the place we live in.

My concern that this might be the mother of all bubbles and prices like this won't be seen again. Sort of like selling Dot.Com stocks when the NASDAQ was pushing 5,000.


I hear you. Surely you wondered the same thing in 2007, right? We hung in there then. My take is that much of the rise in JC, especially the Heights, is fueled by demographic change not just market fluctuation. If we were talking about a suburb like Teaneck where the same population who were there 20 years ago are still there, yeah. But it's hard to foresee de-gentrification at this point.

I'm in this for the long term rents, that's my retirement. We'll have everything paid off before I'm 65. Those Nasdaq stocks weren't paying dividends, at least not to compare to the rents.

Posted on: 3/18 11:59
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brewster wrote:

MDM: the GRMs have been out of control for a while. Think about all these condos people are purchasing to rent out at purchase multiples well over 20 times yearly rents. Our 2012 Heights 4U purchase had a GRM of 7, and those rents were low.


I've had a back and forth with the wife about cancelling further capital improvements and just selling everything, except the place we live in.

My concern that this might be the mother of all bubbles and prices like this won't be seen again. Sort of like selling Dot.Com stocks when the NASDAQ was pushing 5,000.


Posted on: 3/18 11:26
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So I got property #3. Savings about $1,700.

So overall, I got a modest decrease. I'll take it....

Posted on: 3/18 11:19
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The problem, Brewster, you pretend you know everything, but you do not sit down with the people who make the budgets and create the ordinances. I have been doing this since the 1970s, I have attended more budget hearing at the county and local level than I care to admit.

Posted on: 3/17 18:35
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MDM wrote:
The one thing about these appraised values:

If I bought either of these two buildings at the appraised price, I would be cash flow negative. No way the rents would cover, even at lower interest rates.

Something tells me at some point in the future, we will see the mother of price deflation when it comes to real estate.


History may prove you right MDM...

Posted on: 3/17 16:56
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Yvonne I'm sure somebody told you some numbers, it's your ability to understand those numbers that is in doubt.

MDM: the GRMs have been out of control for a while. Think about all these condos people are purchasing to rent out at purchase multiples well over 20 times yearly rents. Our 2012 Heights 4U purchase had a GRM of 7, and those rents were low.

Posted on: 3/17 16:15
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
The tax abatement is not 95% city and 5% county. That is an error, in fact, check with the law department of JC if you think I am wrong. It is 100% Jersey City with an extra 5% going to the county. The 5% was a settlement from a Secaucus lawsuit against JC. It was to be 10% but was cut to 5% due to favors due to retribution.


LoL what? People pay 105% of their abatements now?


Haven't you been paying attention? Yvonne is arithmetically impaired.


Just when you thought Yvonne couldn't get any kookier... This reminds me of the time someone tried to argue with me that 25% was not the same as dividing by four. Some people just don't understand numbers.


Brewster, do yourself a favor and call the legal department and speak to someone on JC tax abatements, if that is too complicated, then ask the city clerk for a copy of the ordinance that was passed probably around the year 2000, which fixed the tax abatement agreements. I know you think you are smart but smart people research the facts, they don't mouth off on things they are clueless to. I stand by what I say because I personally talked to the former mayor of Secaucus when this came up. He actually asked me for a copy of JC tax abatements at a freeholder meeting when he came to blast the freeholders on Secaucus county increase. Secaucus used on the tax abatement agreement JC had with Tropicana in Greenville. Secaucus has similar types of operations that receive no tax abatements.

Posted on: 3/17 14:31
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The one thing about these appraised values:

If I bought either of these two buildings at the appraised price, I would be cash flow negative. No way the rents would cover, even at lower interest rates.

Something tells me at some point in the future, we will see the mother of price deflation when it comes to real estate.

Posted on: 3/17 14:07
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I got my Palisade letter too: a $2k increase from $8k. What's fishy is I successfully appealed this property in 2015. If it was correctly assessed then, then they're saying it's gone up 20% faster than the city as a whole in just those 3 years? Seems very unlikely, but I'm sure they'll just say: show us the comps" rather than have to justify their timeline.

Posted on: 3/17 11:48
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My Palisade ave property came in. About $1,475 increase. So that pretty much cancels out the decrees on my other property. I expected to get a much bigger increase though, since I was under-assessed.


Posted on: 3/16 18:03
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Posted on: 3/14 22:18
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u seee they can do double decker path trains...have an open top so people could duck when necessary

Posted on: 3/14 17:15
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Posted on: 3/14 15:12
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JCGuys wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
The tax abatement is not 95% city and 5% county. That is an error, in fact, check with the law department of JC if you think I am wrong. It is 100% Jersey City with an extra 5% going to the county. The 5% was a settlement from a Secaucus lawsuit against JC. It was to be 10% but was cut to 5% due to favors due to retribution.


LoL what? People pay 105% of their abatements now?


Haven't you been paying attention? Yvonne is arithmetically impaired.


Just when you thought Yvonne couldn't get any kookier... This reminds me of the time someone tried to argue with me that 25% was not the same as dividing by four. Some people just don't understand numbers.


And she was a (math) teacher? Scary thought. I put this on par with the guy that wanted double decker PATH trains (with really LOW wheels or something for the tunnel clearance haha).




That guy *still* will not accept that it is not possible to cram a double decker into the PATH tubes. He keeps arguing that it could be done. At one point, he tried to argue they could make the levels in each train very short and people would just have to hunch over... ha ha ha!

Posted on: 3/14 14:35
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bodhipooh wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
The tax abatement is not 95% city and 5% county. That is an error, in fact, check with the law department of JC if you think I am wrong. It is 100% Jersey City with an extra 5% going to the county. The 5% was a settlement from a Secaucus lawsuit against JC. It was to be 10% but was cut to 5% due to favors due to retribution.


LoL what? People pay 105% of their abatements now?


Haven't you been paying attention? Yvonne is arithmetically impaired.


Just when you thought Yvonne couldn't get any kookier... This reminds me of the time someone tried to argue with me that 25% was not the same as dividing by four. Some people just don't understand numbers.


And she was a (math) teacher? Scary thought. I put this on par with the guy that wanted double decker PATH trains (with really LOW wheels or something for the tunnel clearance haha).


Posted on: 3/14 14:20
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Yvonne wrote:
The tax abatement is not 95% city and 5% county. That is an error, in fact, check with the law department of JC if you think I am wrong. It is 100% Jersey City with an extra 5% going to the county. The 5% was a settlement from a Secaucus lawsuit against JC. It was to be 10% but was cut to 5% due to favors due to retribution.


LoL what? People pay 105% of their abatements now?


Haven't you been paying attention? Yvonne is arithmetically impaired.


Just when you thought Yvonne couldn't get any kookier... This reminds me of the time someone tried to argue with me that 25% was not the same as dividing by four. Some people just don't understand numbers.

Posted on: 3/14 13:06
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Yvonne wrote:
The tax abatement is not 95% city and 5% county. That is an error, in fact, check with the law department of JC if you think I am wrong. It is 100% Jersey City with an extra 5% going to the county. The 5% was a settlement from a Secaucus lawsuit against JC. It was to be 10% but was cut to 5% due to favors due to retribution.


LoL what? People pay 105% of their abatements now?


Haven't you been paying attention? Yvonne is arithmetically impaired.

Posted on: 3/14 12:53
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Yvonne wrote:
The tax abatement is not 95% city and 5% county. That is an error, in fact, check with the law department of JC if you think I am wrong. It is 100% Jersey City with an extra 5% going to the county. The 5% was a settlement from a Secaucus lawsuit against JC. It was to be 10% but was cut to 5% due to favors due to retribution.


LoL what? People pay 105% of their abatements now?

Posted on: 3/14 12:00
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brewster wrote:

Are you saying the lot has a separate deed? My place near the rail got a nice 20% reduction when I appealed a few years ago, I'm curious to see what they cook up to raise it. Theoretically it should still be just right.


I haven't looked at the deed since I bought the place nearly 20 years ago. I think it is all on one deed. However, the empty lot is listed on a separate block and lot number.

It created some confusion years back when the bank who held the mortgage failed to pay the taxes on the parking lot.

Appeal is not an option. I know for a fact I am under-assessed. After renovating the place 20 years ago, for some reason, i never got re-assessed (lucky me).

Posted on: 3/14 11:58
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The tax abatement is not 95% city and 5% county. That is an error, in fact, check with the law department of JC if you think I am wrong. It is 100% Jersey City with an extra 5% going to the county. The 5% was a settlement from a Secaucus lawsuit against JC. It was to be 10% but was cut to 5% due to favors due to retribution.

Posted on: 3/14 11:58
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MDM wrote:
I got a 13.6% reduction on my one Heights property. The building in question has a non-build lot attached to it currently used as tenant parking. Unfortunately, it isn't listed on the appraisal list. So I may get hosed a bit based on what I am reading on the increasing value of land.

My one property near North st. though I am sure will get a hefty increase. Too many giant homes renovated after the light rail went into operation.


Are you saying the lot has a separate deed? My place near the rail got a nice 20% reduction when I appealed a few years ago, I'm curious to see what they cook up to raise it. Theoretically it should still be just right.

Posted on: 3/14 11:26
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I got mine in the Heights, up 10% but they've made a nearly 20% error in estimating the habitable square footage. I guess I'll be talking to them. Also weirdly, on the card they list the property with a 25-foot frontage but on the current tax records that's clearly a 20-foot. How do you screw that up?


I got a 13.6% reduction on my one Heights property. The building in question has a non-build lot attached to it currently used as tenant parking. Unfortunately, it isn't listed on the appraisal list. So I may get hosed a bit based on what I am reading on the increasing value of land.

My one property near North st. though I am sure will get a hefty increase. Too many giant homes renovated after the light rail went into operation.

Posted on: 3/14 9:10
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I got mine in the Heights, up 10% but they've made a nearly 20% error in estimating the habitable square footage. I guess I'll be talking to them. Also weirdly, on the card they list the property with a 25-foot frontage but on the current tax records that's clearly a 20-foot. How do you screw that up?

Posted on: 3/14 1:53
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Early returns in the Heights look good. I'm seeing properties lower by 30%. Just waiting for my property to get the number.

Posted on: 3/14 0:44
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JCGuys wrote:
Jersey City budget preview released.

https://hudsoncountyview.com/jersey-ci ... t-with-zero-tax-increase/

No tax rate changes and the total budget is $587 million, $2 million less this year than the 2017 budget.

It's a little odd that the ratable base and PILOT payments have increased this year, the budget has dropped by $2 million, but the tax rate stays the same...

It literally doesn't add up.


Not that odd. Direct real estate taxation only accounts for about 60% of the municipal budget. The other sources of revenue may be lower (state aid, permit fees, other taxes) which could explain a lower budget. A 2 MM drop is not even 0.4%, so that's essentially a rounding error in practical terms.


Good point - I just wish they would comment on what was reduced that had to be made up for in other areas of the budget. The drop in the other sources is in excess of $8 million, since more money was collected in court fines ($2 million more than last year) and PILOT payments (another $2 million) along with a $95 million increase in the ratable base (also good for about $2 million in city revenue).

We won't know exactly how much more until the full budget document is released tomorrow but the $8 million swing is worth looking at.

Also, please critique if any of my math is off the mark.

Posted on: 3/13 16:22
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JCGuys wrote:
Jersey City budget preview released.

https://hudsoncountyview.com/jersey-ci ... t-with-zero-tax-increase/

No tax rate changes and the total budget is $587 million, $2 million less this year than the 2017 budget.

It's a little odd that the ratable base and PILOT payments have increased this year, the budget has dropped by $2 million, but the tax rate stays the same...

It literally doesn't add up.


Not that odd. Direct real estate taxation only accounts for about 60% of the municipal budget. The other sources of revenue may be lower (state aid, permit fees, other taxes) which could explain a lower budget. A 2 MM drop is not even 0.4%, so that's essentially a rounding error in practical terms.

Posted on: 3/13 15:52
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Jersey City budget preview released.

https://hudsoncountyview.com/jersey-ci ... t-with-zero-tax-increase/

No tax rate changes and the total budget is $587 million, $2 million less this year than the 2017 budget.

It's a little odd that the ratable base and PILOT payments have increased this year, the budget has dropped by $2 million, but the tax rate stays the same...

It literally doesn't add up.

Posted on: 3/13 13:51
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I have a PILOT. The next time it goes up to 40% will be in 2020 (expires 2030). I was under the assumption that the new property assessment would be applied then, not when the abatement expires.

Posted on: 3/13 13:24
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srs7191 wrote:
Just to add to the abatement numbers.

We're on an abatement, roughly 10k per year.

Land, pre-reval, was negligible, about $300 per year. Now it's estimated to be about $2k.

So, all in all, going from 10.3k to about 12k.

If we had no abatement, the property tax would be around $14k. It expires in a few years.

So, all things equal, in a few years our property tax will go up roughly $2k.

If the recent numbers in this thread are true, that means when the abatement expires, the city will go from collecting ~$11.4k per year, to $7k per year from us.

This building has around 100 units in it. Meaning when the abatement expires, the city will lose (approx., at 2018 numbers) $450k per year.


Now, extrapolate your example by the many buildings that will see abatements expire over the next few years and decade, and you start to see a huge looming budget hole. And, the only way the city will be able to plug that hole is by getting more people to move here, or by raising taxes. All those people picketing in front of city hall, demanding that abatements be done away with have no idea what they are asking for, and what will happen if their misplaced demands were suddenly manifested.

Posted on: 3/13 13:17
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Just to add to the abatement numbers.

We're on an abatement, roughly 10k per year.

Land, pre-reval, was negligible, about $300 per year. Now it's estimated to be about $2k.

So, all in all, going from 10.3k to about 12k.

If we had no abatement, the property tax would be around $14k. It expires in a few years.

So, all things equal, in a few years our property tax will go up roughly $2k.

If the recent numbers in this thread are true, that means when the abatement expires, the city will go from collecting ~$11.4k per year, to $7k per year from us.

This building has around 100 units in it. Meaning when the abatement expires, the city will lose (approx., at 2018 numbers) $450k per year.

Posted on: 3/13 11:45
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