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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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hero69 wrote:
that's my problem with fulop. he'd rather find fault with proper taxation/reval, yet he defends tax abatements. is he healy lite or what? yes, he has curtailed them downtown somewhat, but he needs to be working on a plan to eliminate themQuote:

Yvonne wrote:
I just left the Van Vorst meeting on tax appeals and Mayor Fulop was there talking about the virtue of tax abatements. Naturally, he left out the part that tax abatements are not ratables and only ratables can stabilize or lower the tax rate.


Healy lite? Not really, Healy last tax abatement in Journal Square was reduced from 15 years to 12 years. Fulop wins the race, becomes mayor and gives 30 years tax abatement to the property next to the PATH plus $10 million redevelopment bonds. Then he continues with 70 plus more tax abatements. Plus knowing the negative impact of the revaluation gives away property to LS Center for ten dollars instead of selling the property to place in the budget to lower the impact of the revaluation.

Posted on: 2/20 23:43
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that's my problem with fulop. he'd rather find fault with proper taxation/reval, yet he defends tax abatements. is he healy lite or what? yes, he has curtailed them downtown somewhat, but he needs to be working on a plan to eliminate themQuote:

Yvonne wrote:
I just left the Van Vorst meeting on tax appeals and Mayor Fulop was there talking about the virtue of tax abatements. Naturally, he left out the part that tax abatements are not ratables and only ratables can stabilize or lower the tax rate.

Posted on: 2/20 22:53
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I just left the Van Vorst meeting on tax appeals and Mayor Fulop was there talking about the virtue of tax abatements. Naturally, he left out the part that tax abatements are not ratables and only ratables can stabilize or lower the tax rate.

Posted on: 2/20 22:07
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well, it is definitely time for fulop to curtail, if not eliminate, these sweetheart deals imo. Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Loan? That is silly, the city reduced the pilots payments several years ago due to water rates on a senior building. They were paying 18% and water was extra. The owners came back because newer developments are only paying 6.28% to the city. No, the problem are these sweetheart deals, by the way those seniors in those buildings are still paying one third of their income, but the owners want a guaranteed profit, so why should anyone get a guarantee when the city takes our properties and place them into lien? The problem is a rigged system that protects tax abated buildings both affordable and market rate.


At this point what does it matter? Oh yeah, of the state comes in says "pay for your own schools", it's going to matter a TON.

That day will surely be upon us at some point. Hence why you need to listen to people who call for an end to the abatements.

Posted on: 2/20 19:09
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well, it is definitely time for fulop to curtail, if not eliminate, these sweetheart deals imo. Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Loan? That is silly, the city reduced the pilots payments several years ago due to water rates on a senior building. They were paying 18% and water was extra. The owners came back because newer developments are only paying 6.28% to the city. No, the problem are these sweetheart deals, by the way those seniors in those buildings are still paying one third of their income, but the owners want a guaranteed profit, so why should anyone get a guarantee when the city takes our properties and place them into lien? The problem is a rigged system that protects tax abated buildings both affordable and market rate.

Posted on: 2/20 18:22
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Loan? That is silly, the city reduced the pilots payments several years ago due to water rates on a senior building. They were paying 18% and water was extra. The owners came back because newer developments are only paying 6.28% to the city. No, the problem are these sweetheart deals, by the way those seniors in those buildings are still paying one third of their income, but the owners want a guaranteed profit, so why should anyone get a guarantee when the city takes our properties and place them into lien? The problem is a rigged system that protects tax abated buildings both affordable and market rate.

Posted on: 2/20 17:41
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Yvonne, a rate of 1.62 is low. Mostly because JC funds so little of its school costs. JC taxes are a bargain.

Posted on: 2/20 17:19
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i feel for your 90-year old neighbor, but life is full of hardships. maybe the city should provide him/her with a loan to cover taxes and take out a lien on the property, but then again why can't that 90-year old person sell his/her property.

i don't think you appreciate how much dtjc has changed. check out some of the restaurants getting $20 for a smallish martini? that's disposable income speaking!Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Here is the difference, people should not be forced to sell while the city is still giving out sweetheart tax abatements. There is something wrong with that. Besides, my former neighbor who is 90 has an adult son who is disable mentally, moving from an area that he lived in since a child would be hard on him, that is one example. Another neighbor has around the clock care for MS, her money goes there. I could keep going on. The taxes are high because tax abatements are not ratables and only ratables can lower or stabilize taxes. It is the reason Hoboken had two revaluation and did not have this problem.

Posted on: 2/20 16:58
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Here is the difference, people should not be forced to sell while the city is still giving out sweetheart tax abatements. There is something wrong with that. Besides, my former neighbor who is 90 has an adult son who is disable mentally, moving from an area that he lived in since a child would be hard on him, that is one example. Another neighbor has around the clock care for MS, her money goes there. I could keep going on. The taxes are high because tax abatements are not ratables and only ratables can lower or stabilize taxes. It is the reason Hoboken had two revaluation and did not have this problem.

Posted on: 2/20 16:41
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yvonne, i hear you but i think things are a lot different now compared to 1988. i think a lot of people knew that dtjc taxes would rise a lot and i think that the dtjc population is more affluent compared to that of 1988. sure, some seniors will be adversely impacted, but why can't they sell. i could understand not being able to sell if the market is weak, but i don't think that is the case.

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Hero69, there is a difference of working the system by not declaring all of your income and those people who are erroneously over assessed. It is really sad you do not understand the difference. As I mentioned before, I saw long term homeowners lose their homes. There was an article written in the Jersey City Reporter by E. Assata Wright about homeless people staying warm in the Emergency Room of the Medical Center. One of the people in the article stated his family lost their home downtown and when he mentioned the year, this person was a victim of the revaluation. You do not lose their apartment in subsidized housing you just pay according to your income.

Posted on: 2/20 16:35
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Hero69, there is a difference of working the system by not declaring all of your income and those people who are erroneously over assessed. It is really sad you do not understand the difference. As I mentioned before, I saw long term homeowners lose their homes. There was an article written in the Jersey City Reporter by E. Assata Wright about homeless people staying warm in the Emergency Room of the Medical Center. One of the people in the article stated his family lost their home downtown and when he mentioned the year, this person was a victim of the revaluation. You do not lose their apartment in subsidized housing you just pay according to your income.

Posted on: 2/20 16:25
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well, there are always people who are going to try to work the system. besides, in some countries/societies, formal marriage is considered passe. Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Hero69, property taxes are paid on the ability to pay. There are people who use the system because the system allows itself to be used. Low income housing requires one third of income for rent. Couples get around that by not marrying having children and only showing one income. A friend remarried after her husband died, she was not working during her first marriage. When she remarried her rent went up four times and her neighbors chided her for doing this. Yes, she moved out. Do I blame the people who work the system? No. But no matter how you look at it, it is wrong. And Reverend Perry is wrong to admonish one group while asking for affordable housing for Bayfront.

Posted on: 2/20 15:06
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Oh yes Yvonne, people work the system, like repeatedly appealing your taxes on the basis of an unrenovated property, then renovating fully and never getting reassessed for decades while paying a fraction of what other people were, even your loathed abated properties. Your blindness to your own righteous hypocrisy is why people call you names.

Posted on: 2/20 14:55
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Yvonne wrote:
Hero69, property taxes are paid on the ability to pay. There are people who use the system because the system allows itself to be used. Low income housing requires one third of income for rent. Couples get around that by not marrying having children and only showing one income. A friend remarried after her husband died, she was not working during her first marriage. When she remarried her rent went up four times and her neighbors chided her for doing this. Yes, she moved out. Do I blame the people who work the system? No. But no matter how you look at it, it is wrong. And Reverend Perry is wrong to admonish one group while asking for affordable housing for Bayfront.


I must correct myself, property taxes are not related to the ability to pay.

Posted on: 2/20 14:38
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Hero69, property taxes are paid on the ability to pay. There are people who use the system because the system allows itself to be used. Low income housing requires one third of income for rent. Couples get around that by not marrying having children and only showing one income. A friend remarried after her husband died, she was not working during her first marriage. When she remarried her rent went up four times and her neighbors chided her for doing this. Yes, she moved out. Do I blame the people who work the system? No. But no matter how you look at it, it is wrong. And Reverend Perry is wrong to admonish one group while asking for affordable housing for Bayfront.

Posted on: 2/20 13:57
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society is built on subsidizing others...where do non-profits and charities get their funding? art museums? what about funding for highways and mass transit?what about funding/grants for medical research? i could go on but why bother?Quote:

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JCGuys wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
By the way, shame for Reverend Perry for admonishing downtown homeowners for their tax bills. He belongs to Jersey City Together and that group asked for affordable housing for Bayfront. Affordable housing is limited taxes.


Hahaha!!

Yvonne is actually correct! And heartless.

hey Yvonne, what's your opinion on 99 Hudson? The building is not receiving no tax abatement and will add hundreds of millions to the ratable base. Plus, the building and its residents won't be consuming much city services (police, public schools)
It single handily will result in a small tax rate cut for the entire city when it's built due to the amount of property tax revenue it will generate, net of municipal costs to service it. Would you supportive of more 99 Hudson's being built.


Neither did I receive any city services except garbage. No one knows the income of residents when they receive a tax bill or whether a spouse lost their jobs. I am speaking the truth. Taxpayers should stop subsidizing others, there should be no free rides. As it is $80 million is not paid. http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... sey_city_tax_abateme.html

Posted on: 2/20 13:39
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Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
By the way, shame for Reverend Perry for admonishing downtown homeowners for their tax bills. He belongs to Jersey City Together and that group asked for affordable housing for Bayfront. Affordable housing is limited taxes.


Hahaha!!

Yvonne is actually correct! And heartless.

hey Yvonne, what's your opinion on 99 Hudson? The building is not receiving no tax abatement and will add hundreds of millions to the ratable base. Plus, the building and its residents won't be consuming much city services (police, public schools)
It single handily will result in a small tax rate cut for the entire city when it's built due to the amount of property tax revenue it will generate, net of municipal costs to service it. Would you supportive of more 99 Hudson's being built.


Neither did I receive any city services except garbage. No one knows the income of residents when they receive a tax bill or whether a spouse lost their jobs. I am speaking the truth. Taxpayers should stop subsidizing others, there should be no free rides. As it is $80 million is not paid. http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... sey_city_tax_abateme.html


No city services beyond garbage? Aren't you cute...? How about police protection? Fire department? How about the roads on which you drive and the free on street parking you covet so highly?? Traffic lights to preserve pedestrian security? And on, and on...

Posted on: 2/20 13:38
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
By the way, shame for Reverend Perry for admonishing downtown homeowners for their tax bills. He belongs to Jersey City Together and that group asked for affordable housing for Bayfront. Affordable housing is limited taxes.


Hahaha!!

Yvonne is actually correct! And heartless.

hey Yvonne, what's your opinion on 99 Hudson? The building is not receiving no tax abatement and will add hundreds of millions to the ratable base. Plus, the building and its residents won't be consuming much city services (police, public schools)
It single handily will result in a small tax rate cut for the entire city when it's built due to the amount of property tax revenue it will generate, net of municipal costs to service it. Would you supportive of more 99 Hudson's being built.


Neither did I receive any city services except garbage. No one knows the income of residents when they receive a tax bill or whether a spouse lost their jobs. I am speaking the truth. Taxpayers should stop subsidizing others, there should be no free rides. As it is $80 million is not paid. http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... sey_city_tax_abateme.html

Posted on: 2/20 13:27
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There are some more balanced articles about the reval highlighting both the winners and losers. It's still disappointing that the first news reports were about downtown homeowners that have been underpaying for years, and not the struggling homeowners in other wards that will see their property taxes cut in half.

I would be interested to hear from landlords in areas outside of downtown. They should see an increase in cash flow thanks to the reduction in property taxes.

Posted on: 2/20 8:24
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Yvonne wrote:
By the way, shame for Reverend Perry for admonishing downtown homeowners for their tax bills. He belongs to Jersey City Together and that group asked for affordable housing for Bayfront. Affordable housing is limited taxes.


Hahaha!!

Yvonne is actually correct! And heartless.

hey Yvonne, what's your opinion on 99 Hudson? The building is not receiving no tax abatement and will add hundreds of millions to the ratable base. Plus, the building and its residents won't be consuming much city services (police, public schools)
It single handily will result in a small tax rate cut for the entire city when it's built due to the amount of property tax revenue it will generate, net of municipal costs to service it. Would you supportive of more 99 Hudson's being built.

Posted on: 2/20 8:17
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Actually, the article jungle different tax years. I said my taxes went from $3,000 to $16,000 in 1988. I sold my home for slightly more than one million which $2.5 million is an exaggeration for the buyer especially with a $40,000 tax bill. I knew it was time to get out because I saw my neighbors wiped out in 1988, the reason for the bulk lien sale. It is worse now because back then you had several years before you went into lien, now it is the same year. I still have neighbors with limited income with tremendous tax bills. By the way, shame for Reverend Perry for admonishing downtown homeowners for their tax bills. He belongs to Jersey City Together and that group asked for affordable housing for Bayfront. Affordable housing is limited taxes.

Posted on: 2/19 16:01
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from the article:

There was one self professed HUGE winner -

‘I dodged a bullet’

Yvonne Balcer, a longtime critic of the city’s tax abatement policies, said one of the homes that saw the largest increase downtown had formerly been hers.

“I dodged a bullet,” she said. “I sold my home six years ago.”

She said her former home saw taxes rise by 300 percent, from $16,000 to $41,000 per year. The assessed value went from $210,000 to just over $2.5 million.

“That could have been me,” she said.








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user1111 wrote:
The assessment company predicts that the biggest impacts will be felt downtown, while residents elsewhere in the city – in particular the Greenville and the southernmost part of the city – will actually see sharp declines.

Greenville, the West Side and The Heights, including areas such as County Village and Society Hill, may see decreases when the final numbers are released.

Community activists have long complained that residents in poorer neighborhoods have been paying too much in taxes, artificially subsidizing lower taxes for residences downtown.

Although the numbers throughout the city have yet to be fully released, Councilman Michael Yun predicts that Jersey City Heights – which was hit hard in the last revaluation in 1988 – will not be as negatively impacted as downtown was.

“The Heights are still an attractive place to move,” he said, suggesting that a trend that started well before the revaluation of residents moving from downtown to The Heights might increase as the results of the revaluation push people out downtown.

The problem is that downtown residents may not be able to sell their properties as easily as they might have before the revaluation.

In some cases, pending sales of properties were held up in order to see what the new taxes would be.

“This is bad news for everybody,” said one local real estate agent. “People looking to buy here don’t look at neighborhood by neighborhood, they’re thinking Jersey City, and this revaluation is saying Jersey City is too expensive.”

Read more: Hudson Reporter - Bad news for downtown Residents stunned when reval results mean more taxes

Posted on: 2/19 14:16
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The assessment company predicts that the biggest impacts will be felt downtown, while residents elsewhere in the city – in particular the Greenville and the southernmost part of the city – will actually see sharp declines.

Greenville, the West Side and The Heights, including areas such as County Village and Society Hill, may see decreases when the final numbers are released.

Community activists have long complained that residents in poorer neighborhoods have been paying too much in taxes, artificially subsidizing lower taxes for residences downtown.

Although the numbers throughout the city have yet to be fully released, Councilman Michael Yun predicts that Jersey City Heights – which was hit hard in the last revaluation in 1988 – will not be as negatively impacted as downtown was.

“The Heights are still an attractive place to move,” he said, suggesting that a trend that started well before the revaluation of residents moving from downtown to The Heights might increase as the results of the revaluation push people out downtown.

The problem is that downtown residents may not be able to sell their properties as easily as they might have before the revaluation.

In some cases, pending sales of properties were held up in order to see what the new taxes would be.

“This is bad news for everybody,” said one local real estate agent. “People looking to buy here don’t look at neighborhood by neighborhood, they’re thinking Jersey City, and this revaluation is saying Jersey City is too expensive.”

Read more: Hudson Reporter - Bad news for downtown Residents stunned when reval results mean more taxes

Posted on: 2/18 12:12
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One thing that's really difficult is that a lot of the people most adversely affected by the tax increase were real pioneers who purchased homes here in the early 80s and got behind the community, effectuated significant change and ultimately did more for Jersey City than any politician or developer. Now after pulling Jersey City from out of the depths, many of them may be forced to sell and move. The process doesn't seem to pay any deference to their efforts. For a lot of these people, downtown Jersey City is a uniquely special place to live. So the fact that they could sell their homes and maybe cash in with a lot of money may not be so comforting. They actually CREATED a community here and created a place that was unique and special. Now they have to think about where they could go and live and feel as comfortable. It's a hard pill to swallow and it's something I wish people would feel sensitive to.


Nobody is denying that some people came here at a time when the city needed it most, and through efforts, sweat, and tears, did a lot for the city. For all of that they have been amply rewarded in the form of property appreciation that is truly breathtaking: where else in the country can you find real estate that has appreciate 10 to 15 times its original value in 30 years??

And, that is the part that those claiming unfairness are all too quick to ignore or forget: your home (regardless of emotional attachment) is an asset. It is literally a piggy bank. If you bought for 100K and are now sitting on a property worth 1MM, maybe even 1.5 MM, you have essentially won the lottery. And, despite your good fortunes, and spurred by a bumbling local government, you have gotten used to not having to pay your fair share of taxes. And now, the jig is up: it is time to settle up, and pay up. It sucks, but instead of bitching about the sudden increase, perhaps those people clamoring for sympathy and understanding would be well served to show some of both for the residents that were unfairly overtaxed for decades, upon the backs of which they were able to get away with their under taxation for so long.

Posted on: 2/18 12:12
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One thing that's really difficult is that a lot of the people most adversely affected by the tax increase were real pioneers who purchased homes here in the early 80s and got behind the community, effectuated significant change and ultimately did more for Jersey City than any politician or developer. Now after pulling Jersey City from out of the depths, many of them may be forced to sell and move. The process doesn't seem to pay any deference to their efforts. For a lot of these people, downtown Jersey City is a uniquely special place to live. So the fact that they could sell their homes and maybe cash in with a lot of money may not be so comforting. They actually CREATED a community here and created a place that was unique and special. Now they have to think about where they could go and live and feel as comfortable. It's a hard pill to swallow and it's something I wish people would feel sensitive to.



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Posted on: 2/18 11:44
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The takeaway is that people say everyone should pay their fair share, until they find out they have to as well.

Posted on: 2/18 11:15
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One thing that's really difficult is that a lot of the people most adversely affected by the tax increase were real pioneers who purchased homes here in the early 80s and got behind the community, effectuated significant change and ultimately did more for Jersey City than any politician or developer. Now after pulling Jersey City from out of the depths, many of them may be forced to sell and move. The process doesn't seem to pay any deference to their efforts. For a lot of these people, downtown Jersey City is a uniquely special place to live. So the fact that they could sell their homes and maybe cash in with a lot of money may not be so comforting. They actually CREATED a community here and created a place that was unique and special. Now they have to think about where they could go and live and feel as comfortable. It's a hard pill to swallow and it's something I wish people would feel sensitive to.

Posted on: 2/18 10:08
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avinandre wrote:
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Most people are ranting about a 1 million dollar home should pay 16K. No problem but if 100K home is 1M in 15 years, wages should have also gone up by same proportion and that is totally nuts.. If I have to pay local taxes as percent of my income I will do that and that is better way to tax and provide local services IMHO.


If you think property taxes are unfair - move to Delaware, Louisiana or Alabama.

https://taxfoundation.org/how-high-are-property-taxes-your-state/


Thanks for the suggestion I am happy where I am...

Posted on: 2/18 10:06
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avinandre wrote:
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Most people are ranting about a 1 million dollar home should pay 16K. No problem but if 100K home is 1M in 15 years, wages should have also gone up by same proportion and that is totally nuts.. If I have to pay local taxes as percent of my income I will do that and that is better way to tax and provide local services IMHO.



If you think property taxes are unfair - move to Delaware, Louisiana or Alabama.

https://taxfoundation.org/how-high-are-property-taxes-your-state/

Posted on: 2/18 10:00
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