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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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What does Yeah...No mean? It makes no sense...You aren't the seller so you wouldn't know why they are selling unless you know them. The reval has been known about since Christie ordered it. It was just a question of not if, but how much. Now it's time to pay the piper.


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Dolomiti wrote:
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dmark526 wrote:
The selling has already begun. 272 Barrow was put on the market in December for 3.3 million, the taxes went from 16K to 41K per year. They just lowered their asking to 3 million. I'm sure many more will follow.

Yeah... no

272 Barrow was first listed in 9/2017 for $3.5 million, which is **WAY** above market, and would probably make it one of the most expensive properties in JC. (The assessor put it at $2.5m.)

The owners pulled it from Twill, and relisted it at $3.3m with Boyne in 11/2017. In December, they reduced it again to $3m. All of that is more than 2 months before the updated rates were published.

This is not an example of people dumping properties because of the reval. It's an example of someone trying to sell a home for more than anyone wants to pay, for at least 5 months.

Posted on: 2/14 16:32
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Ralph_Abutts wrote:
As for another reval next year/12 months later ....For Jersey City & the 1/2 dozen other municipalities in the same boat, the State should have made a one-time exception to the law to allow for a phased-in revaluation to prevent such a disruptive event like going on now.

Yeah, thing is? "Phased in" means that the people who are overpaying their taxes have to continue overpaying, until everything is up to date.

Plus, doing it in steps means repeated shocks with each step. Pass.

This has been coming for years. People have no excuse not to expect it. Delays only make it worse. And if you like the gradual approach, then the better option is to get everything matched up as best as possible now, and revalue properties every 2-5 years instead of every 30 years.

Posted on: 2/14 16:17
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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dmark526 wrote:
The selling has already begun. 272 Barrow was put on the market in December for 3.3 million, the taxes went from 16K to 41K per year. They just lowered their asking to 3 million. I'm sure many more will follow.

Yeah... no

272 Barrow was first listed in 9/2017 for $3.5 million, which is **WAY** above market, and would probably make it one of the most expensive properties in JC. (The assessor put it at $2.5m.)

The owners pulled it from Twill, and relisted it at $3.3m with Boyne in 11/2017. In December, they reduced it again to $3m. All of that is more than 2 months before the updated rates were published.

This is not an example of people dumping properties because of the reval. It's an example of someone trying to sell a home for more than anyone wants to pay, for at least 5 months.

Posted on: 2/14 16:14
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Other counties, like Monmouth, conduct annual reassessments. The pro for such is as you noted. The con is the administrative costs to doing such each year may be de minimus,i.e. tax assessors are year-round employees & are not contracted out.

As for another reval next year/12 months later ....For Jersey City & the 1/2 dozen other municipalities in the same boat, the State should have made a one-time exception to the law to allow for a phased-in revaluation to prevent such a disruptive event like going on now.

That is, sure, pre-val, folks may be "subsidizing" the many downtowners, but when properties become tax delinquent or foreclosure, (or reassessed lower 12 months later due to much higher taxes), the rest of the city, including those originally benefiting form the reval with lower assessments, will end up paying for the shortfall in the tax levy. Tax shocks are never good for all taxpayers.

Posted on: 2/14 16:08
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When the 1988 reval happened, it also only affected downtown JC. Here are the results, Hispanic and senior homeowners were not able to sell, they lost their homes in liens. It is the reason Schundler created the bulk lien sale in the early 1990s because there were thousands of properties not able to pay. At least in those days, you had 3 years to pay before you went into lien. Now it is the same year. All taxes and water must be paid by the December due date which is on the tax bill.

Posted on: 2/14 16:08
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Can someone explain ?--if there is an explanation: if all the city's properties were evaluated way back when, how did uptown properties come to suffer with higher evaluations and therefore higher taxes?
What parameters were employed that created this inconsistency?

Posted on: 2/14 16:02
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it seems like annual reassesments would be fair given the expected strenth in other parts of jc.

Posted on: 2/14 15:53
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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That property will sit forever. The problem is going to be if they sell for 3 million those taxes will be at 50K immediately.

Posted on: 2/14 15:23
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Quote:

hero69 wrote:
just curious, when is the next reval ? or is it down annually using some type of algorithim.


The city has been working on 30-year delays between revals, so who knows? The mayor said today they are looking to do a reassessment next year -- I think they legally have to wait for 12 months at least because they need a year's worth of sales to use as comps.

The state generally requires revals when the ratio of true to assessed value dips below 85% -- that was in about 2001 and the state did not act until 2016.

Posted on: 2/14 14:49
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just curious, when is the next reval ? or is it down annually using some type of algorithim because house prices in other parts of jc, namely the heights, are definitely going up a lot.

Posted on: 2/14 14:34
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user1111 wrote:
Greenville and Bergen-Lafayette, Fulop said last night, have been "subsidizing Downtown or another part of the city for 30 years."

Enough said, and enough is enough!!!!


Hmm, maybe so but parts of Bergen Lafayette are being hit fairly hard as well. I have a small rental in a questionable part of BL and my proposed increase is from $5k to more than $10k.

Posted on: 2/14 14:26
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Most seniors in general have more money than most of us especially those living multi million dollar homes. I am against tax freezes and all the other nonsense.

Posted on: 2/14 14:20
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Quote:

dmark526 wrote:
The selling has already begun. 272 Barrow was put on the market in December for 3.3 million, the taxes went from 16K to 41K per year. They just lowered their asking to 3 million. I'm sure many more will follow.


They could be moving for any number of reasons. Big drops at the high end of the market - if you've mispriced - aren't that uncommon and while $300k is a big drop in $ terms, it's less than 10%. Of course the reval will hurt, but hard to tell if the reval is the big driver or aggressive pricing based on only one data point...

A couple of observations: they were assessed at $2,538,000 - well below even their reduced asking price.

They bought in 2004 for $425k. If they get $3mm, that's 7x what they paid for it.... Good for them - I hope they get it. But it's hard to feel too sorry for them.

Posted on: 2/14 14:19
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The selling has already begun. 272 Barrow was put on the market in December for 3.3 million, the taxes went from 16K to 41K per year. They just lowered their asking to 3 million. I'm sure many more will follow.

Posted on: 2/14 14:06
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i am all in favor of not creating hardships for seniors, but if someone is living in a $2.5 million house, then why can't they sell? alternatively, instead of giving seniors a handout in the form of a tax freeze, the city should offer them loans against the future sale/transfer on death. this seems more reasonable imo

Posted on: 2/14 13:43
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Taxes are services, rent control properties will appeal in tax court as they did in 1988 because tenants cannot go up as the one to four properties can go up. So, we the public will issue refund bonds to those property owners. As I mention before, just look at the friendly budget, it lists what tax abated properties would pay if they did not get their abatements. The one to four family homeowners are subsidizing them. Here is the irony, some on that would pay less taxes if they gave up their tax abatement, they choose not to go that route, protecting themselves from tax hike in a revaluation year.

Posted on: 2/14 11:25
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The timing of this is brutal. You get a $40k tax bill and are not able to write it off federal taxes. Double ouch.

Posted on: 2/14 8:40
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Greenville and Bergen-Lafayette, Fulop said last night, have been "subsidizing Downtown or another part of the city for 30 years."

Enough said, and enough is enough!!!!

Posted on: 2/14 7:56
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Hopefully, the people who are getting tax relief will want to share their perspective.


But most of them haven't gotten their letter! Bad choice from a PR standpoint, but that's just consistent with this whole debacle.

It's amazing that after all this time Yvonne either still doesn't understand what a reval is or cynically chooses to ignore it in favor of her disinformation campaign. People want to blame Fulop, but he's been in office 4 years and she's been spreading these lies to anyone who will listen for 30. She's at least one reason every mayor shied away from this.


You can't deny Fulops 4 years of purposeful delay added significant strain to the downtown residents. That's directly his fault. He purposely delayed it long enough to get reelected,and that cost JC tax payers millions in legal fees, and downtown residents 4 years of explosive growth added to their assessment.

Posted on: 2/14 7:16
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Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Hopefully, the people who are getting tax relief will want to share their perspective.


But most of them haven't gotten their letter! Bad choice from a PR standpoint, but that's just consistent with this whole debacle.

It's amazing that after all this time Yvonne either still doesn't understand what a reval is or cynically chooses to ignore it in favor of her disinformation campaign. People want to blame Fulop, but he's been in office 4 years and she's been spreading these lies to anyone who will listen for 30. She's at least one reason every mayor shied away from this.

Posted on: 2/13 23:01
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brewster wrote:
Kudos to Terrence for getting the whole story, unlike some of the broadcast media starting to cover this by just hearing the sob stories.

Indeed. The linked story is still heavy on the losers, but it is good to see a bit of balance.

Hopefully, the people who are getting tax relief will want to share their perspective.

Posted on: 2/13 22:19
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Yvonne wrote:
Free Ride, Dolomiti happened when the Fulop Administration gave Salem Lafayette another 30 years on their tax abatement....

Spare us your anti-abatement jeremiad. It's irrelevant.

The problem is that JC went THIRTY YEARS without revaluing properties, while property values changed dramatically. THAT is why people paid more than their fair share for decades, while others reaped an unfair benefit. If there wasn't a single abated property in JC, we'd be in this exact same place right now.

Your callous attitude towards the Jersey City residents who overpaid their taxes; your exacerbation of this problem; trying to shift to blame to suit your own agenda... That's unacceptable and inexcusable.

Your buddies got a sweet deal for decades. Fun time is over. They don't deserve a single iota of sympathy for the new tax rate. At this point, they should be glad they don't have to pay back taxes after decades of underpayment.

Posted on: 2/13 22:17
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So attorney Mark Steier is going to sue the city, that will clearly help keep taxes down for everyone.

Pay what you owe and stop complaining, vile lawyer.

Robin.

Posted on: 2/13 22:16
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Kudos to Terrence for getting the whole story, unlike some of the broadcast media starting to cover this by just hearing the sob stories.

What I can't figure is why they're releasing DT before other areas, it hurts their credibility. So far only 1/4 of the properties have seen cuts according to the spreadsheet. Perhaps they're just trying to get a jump on the appeals.

Posted on: 2/13 21:20
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Posted on: 2/13 20:47
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Free Ride, Dolomiti happened when the Fulop Administration gave Salem Lafayette another 30 years on their tax abatement bringing their total tax abatement to 66 years, a similar deal was given to properties own by a church on Bergen Avenue involving 4 different buildings. Taxes are services, so it is OK for long term homeowners to be thrown in the streets but we must protect the voter base aka the Democratic base for affordable housing voters.

Posted on: 2/13 18:48
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Yvonne wrote:
My former neighbor was not able to rent out her basement since Irene and Sandy. She received only $1,000 from Fema while her basement took a hit of $20,000 to $30,000. Now she has a $35,000 tax bill. I am sure she is not unique with the loss of potential income from basement.

Another sob story, about someone who got a free ride on their taxes for a decade. Pass.

Why don't you find some of the people who are getting lower taxes because of the reval? The owner of 367 First Street will pay about $23,000 less in property taxes. I guess that just doesn't count, huh? They should just keep going on paying tens of thousands of dollars every year, so that one of your buddies gets a tax break? Great system you have there.

Posted on: 2/13 18:35
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My former neighbor was not able to rent out her basement since Irene and Sandy. She received only $1,000 from Fema while her basement took a hit of $20,000 to $30,000. Now she has a $35,000 tax bill. I am sure she is not unique with the loss of potential income from basement.

Posted on: 2/13 17:58
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Just seeing this on NextDoor. Senior Freeze Program. I wouldn't qualify, but it could help some seniors who have all this equity, but refuse to tap into it.

Posted on: 2/13 15:07
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[quote]
srs7191 wrote:
If they haven't assessed the entire city yet, how are they figuring these numbers? Are the new rates estimates until the entire city is complete?

I'm guessing after a certain initial (hopefully high) percentage were visited in person they were able to extrapolate some numbers just based on recent sales and comps. Unless square footage and the number of bed/bath are wildly off, they probably had enough data to do some preliminary number crunching.

Posted on: 2/13 14:31
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