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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Haggis wrote:
Does anyone know how many owners have not rec'd their reval yet?
Haven't seen my property on any list, mailbox filled daily with useless spam.
Just want to know at this point.
Thanks mates.


I think most have not. There's only 13k in the excel file.

Posted on: 2/14 20:19
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Does anyone know how many owners have not rec'd their reval yet?
Haven't seen my property on any list, mailbox filled daily with useless spam.
Just want to know at this point.
Thanks mates.

Posted on: 2/14 20:11
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I think what Dolomiti is trying to say is that even if everyone overpaying had appealed, and many were not financially sophisticated enough to know they should, their tax would only be reduced to the official rate while many downtowners were paying less than half that. And then the rate would be raised to make up for the lost taxes.

As for people losing their homes to tax liens, Yvonne keeps trotting out that scaremongering nonsense. As said, only an idiot lets a home they actually own get taken in a lien.

Posted on: 2/14 18:47
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Jersey City divided as new tax assessments finally roll out

New assessments released citywide as part of the long-delayed property revaluation are exposing anew divisions between residents of Jersey City's Downtown and those who live in the city's less affluent neighborhoods.

Hundreds of Downtown residents have crowded community centers, churches and schools in recent weeks to express anger about the enormous tax hikes expected to accompany their new assessments. The owners of one Washington Street brownstone may see their annual tax bill increase by $36,066.

http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... y_divided_as_new_tax.html


Posted on: 2/14 17:24
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Well it makes you sound unintelligent. A tax assessment does not equal market value. Yes, they may have overestimated their own market value but that has little to do with their value for tax purposes. A home's value is based on what a buyer is willing to pay for it.

Don't worry, the "tight" market n DTJC I'm sure will be loosening up soon.



Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

dmark526 wrote:
What does Yeah...No mean?

It means "yeah, I thought about it; and no, you're wrong."


Quote:
You aren't the seller so you wouldn't know why they are selling unless you know them.

lol

In case you missed it, you ascribed motives to them too --
by proclaiming they were doing it because of the reval.

Anyway. It's been on the market for 5 months, they started out asking $1m more than the city's assessed price, and they switched real estate agents after just 2 months. I'm sure there are people more experienced than I am at divining the psychology of sellers, but that doesn't sound like they are getting out because their property taxes are going up. It sounds much more like they are trying to take advantage of an incredibly tight real estate market in DTCJ, and miscalculated.

Posted on: 2/14 17:20
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Ralph_Abutts wrote:
I do not think you really comprehend tax appeals and tax shocks.

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Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, thing is? "Phased in" means that the people who are overpaying their taxes have to continue overpaying, until everything is up to date.

Plus, doing it in steps means repeated shocks with each step. Pass.


"overpaying" is a prejorative by someone else other than the homeowner affected.

No one "overpays" - folks willing pay the tax or appeal it at their *free will*. That is, one thought they were "overypaying" all along - they would have done a tax appeal years ago. Many/most have not.

If they cannot afford to pay the tax then they will move, freely (selling) or involuntarily (foreclosure). When someone's taxes goes up 4xs overnight - it will be mostly the latter. That is a tax shock - it will affect the marketability of all real estate, even those with near-term reduced tax bills adjacent to the boarded up/foreclosed properties.


No, sir, you clearly don't get it. In a normal scenario (one in which the city conducts regularly scheduled revals and the equalization ratio doesn't reach below 25%!), the time anyone "overpays" or "underpays" is a few years, depending on growth in various parts of the city. When a city is this far out of whack, yes, the majority of the city is significantly overpaying because the majority of the city is not valued properly and an appropriate tax rate isn't applied. An appeal would yield minimal results without a full reval.

Posted on: 2/14 17:17
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I do not think you really comprehend tax appeals and tax shocks.

Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, thing is? "Phased in" means that the people who are overpaying their taxes have to continue overpaying, until everything is up to date.

Plus, doing it in steps means repeated shocks with each step. Pass.


"overpaying" is a prejorative by someone else other than the homeowner affected.

No one "overpays" - folks willing pay the tax or appeal it at their *free will*. That is, one thought they were "overypaying" all along - they would have done a tax appeal years ago. Many/most have not.

If they cannot afford to pay the tax then they will move, freely (selling) or involuntarily (foreclosure). When someone's taxes goes up 4xs overnight - it will be mostly the latter. That is a tax shock - it will affect the marketability of all real estate, even those with near-term reduced tax bills adjacent to the boarded up/foreclosed properties.

Posted on: 2/14 16:54
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dmark526 wrote:
What does Yeah...No mean?

It means "yeah, I thought about it; and no, you're wrong."


Quote:
You aren't the seller so you wouldn't know why they are selling unless you know them.

lol

In case you missed it, you ascribed motives to them too --
by proclaiming they were doing it because of the reval.

Anyway. It's been on the market for 5 months, they started out asking $1m more than the city's assessed price, and they switched real estate agents after just 2 months. I'm sure there are people more experienced than I am at divining the psychology of sellers, but that doesn't sound like they are getting out because their property taxes are going up. It sounds much more like they are trying to take advantage of an incredibly tight real estate market in DTCJ, and miscalculated.

Posted on: 2/14 16:54
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Yvonne wrote:
When the 1988 reval happened, it also only affected downtown JC. Here are the results, Hispanic and senior homeowners were not able to sell, they lost their homes in liens. It is the reason Schundler created the bulk lien sale in the early 1990s because there were thousands of properties not able to pay. At least in those days, you had 3 years to pay before you went into lien. Now it is the same year. All taxes and water must be paid by the December due date which is on the tax bill.

Anyone who loses their property over this is officially an idiot.

There are lots of options available to homeowners, such as home equity loans or reverse mortgages. Homeowners should be careful with these products, but if the value of your home has gone up $1m over the past 10 years, you should have enough equity in the house to cover your taxes for decades.

If you don't want to deal with that, then you can sell. It's not ideal, but it's obviously better than the city foreclosing on your property. The market in JC is incredibly hot right now, particularly in DTJC. Inventory is still tight. JC will still have low property taxes compared to most NJ cities, and the costs are laughably low compared to Manhattan.

You might not get the absolute peak value. However, prices have been soaring in most of JC, meaning almost everyone affected will be way up, and you can buy one heck of a home for $1.5m these days.

And as usual, you completely ignore how some people's properties will gain in value, because their taxes will go down. What a surprise that you ignore the people who have gotten screwed for decades by the inexcusable delays in revaluations.

Posted on: 2/14 16:45
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RichMauro wrote:
Can someone explain ?--if there is an explanation: if all the city's properties were evaluated way back when, how did uptown properties come to suffer with higher evaluations and therefore higher taxes?
What parameters were employed that created this inconsistency?


This is been explained but I guess it bears repeating for those new to the game. Every year after a reval the city basically guesses what the overall appreciation of ALL the property has been. This is called the ratio and and it times your assessment should yield a market value.

But when one area appreciates faster than another over time this factor is more and more in error. This is why when the ratio of assessment to market falls below 85% we're supposed to have a reval. We got below 25%, and the properties that appreciated the slowest were being overtaxed because the ratio guessed them to be more valuable than they were, and ones that appreciated the fastest were being under taxed. Got it?

Posted on: 2/14 16:33
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What does Yeah...No mean? It makes no sense...You aren't the seller so you wouldn't know why they are selling unless you know them. The reval has been known about since Christie ordered it. It was just a question of not if, but how much. Now it's time to pay the piper.


Quote:

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Quote:

dmark526 wrote:
The selling has already begun. 272 Barrow was put on the market in December for 3.3 million, the taxes went from 16K to 41K per year. They just lowered their asking to 3 million. I'm sure many more will follow.

Yeah... no

272 Barrow was first listed in 9/2017 for $3.5 million, which is **WAY** above market, and would probably make it one of the most expensive properties in JC. (The assessor put it at $2.5m.)

The owners pulled it from Twill, and relisted it at $3.3m with Boyne in 11/2017. In December, they reduced it again to $3m. All of that is more than 2 months before the updated rates were published.

This is not an example of people dumping properties because of the reval. It's an example of someone trying to sell a home for more than anyone wants to pay, for at least 5 months.

Posted on: 2/14 16:32
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Ralph_Abutts wrote:
As for another reval next year/12 months later ....For Jersey City & the 1/2 dozen other municipalities in the same boat, the State should have made a one-time exception to the law to allow for a phased-in revaluation to prevent such a disruptive event like going on now.

Yeah, thing is? "Phased in" means that the people who are overpaying their taxes have to continue overpaying, until everything is up to date.

Plus, doing it in steps means repeated shocks with each step. Pass.

This has been coming for years. People have no excuse not to expect it. Delays only make it worse. And if you like the gradual approach, then the better option is to get everything matched up as best as possible now, and revalue properties every 2-5 years instead of every 30 years.

Posted on: 2/14 16:17
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dmark526 wrote:
The selling has already begun. 272 Barrow was put on the market in December for 3.3 million, the taxes went from 16K to 41K per year. They just lowered their asking to 3 million. I'm sure many more will follow.

Yeah... no

272 Barrow was first listed in 9/2017 for $3.5 million, which is **WAY** above market, and would probably make it one of the most expensive properties in JC. (The assessor put it at $2.5m.)

The owners pulled it from Twill, and relisted it at $3.3m with Boyne in 11/2017. In December, they reduced it again to $3m. All of that is more than 2 months before the updated rates were published.

This is not an example of people dumping properties because of the reval. It's an example of someone trying to sell a home for more than anyone wants to pay, for at least 5 months.

Posted on: 2/14 16:14
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Other counties, like Monmouth, conduct annual reassessments. The pro for such is as you noted. The con is the administrative costs to doing such each year may be de minimus,i.e. tax assessors are year-round employees & are not contracted out.

As for another reval next year/12 months later ....For Jersey City & the 1/2 dozen other municipalities in the same boat, the State should have made a one-time exception to the law to allow for a phased-in revaluation to prevent such a disruptive event like going on now.

That is, sure, pre-val, folks may be "subsidizing" the many downtowners, but when properties become tax delinquent or foreclosure, (or reassessed lower 12 months later due to much higher taxes), the rest of the city, including those originally benefiting form the reval with lower assessments, will end up paying for the shortfall in the tax levy. Tax shocks are never good for all taxpayers.

Posted on: 2/14 16:08
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When the 1988 reval happened, it also only affected downtown JC. Here are the results, Hispanic and senior homeowners were not able to sell, they lost their homes in liens. It is the reason Schundler created the bulk lien sale in the early 1990s because there were thousands of properties not able to pay. At least in those days, you had 3 years to pay before you went into lien. Now it is the same year. All taxes and water must be paid by the December due date which is on the tax bill.

Posted on: 2/14 16:08
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Can someone explain ?--if there is an explanation: if all the city's properties were evaluated way back when, how did uptown properties come to suffer with higher evaluations and therefore higher taxes?
What parameters were employed that created this inconsistency?

Posted on: 2/14 16:02
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it seems like annual reassesments would be fair given the expected strenth in other parts of jc.

Posted on: 2/14 15:53
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That property will sit forever. The problem is going to be if they sell for 3 million those taxes will be at 50K immediately.

Posted on: 2/14 15:23
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Quote:

hero69 wrote:
just curious, when is the next reval ? or is it down annually using some type of algorithim.


The city has been working on 30-year delays between revals, so who knows? The mayor said today they are looking to do a reassessment next year -- I think they legally have to wait for 12 months at least because they need a year's worth of sales to use as comps.

The state generally requires revals when the ratio of true to assessed value dips below 85% -- that was in about 2001 and the state did not act until 2016.

Posted on: 2/14 14:49
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just curious, when is the next reval ? or is it down annually using some type of algorithim because house prices in other parts of jc, namely the heights, are definitely going up a lot.

Posted on: 2/14 14:34
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user1111 wrote:
Greenville and Bergen-Lafayette, Fulop said last night, have been "subsidizing Downtown or another part of the city for 30 years."

Enough said, and enough is enough!!!!


Hmm, maybe so but parts of Bergen Lafayette are being hit fairly hard as well. I have a small rental in a questionable part of BL and my proposed increase is from $5k to more than $10k.

Posted on: 2/14 14:26
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Most seniors in general have more money than most of us especially those living multi million dollar homes. I am against tax freezes and all the other nonsense.

Posted on: 2/14 14:20
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dmark526 wrote:
The selling has already begun. 272 Barrow was put on the market in December for 3.3 million, the taxes went from 16K to 41K per year. They just lowered their asking to 3 million. I'm sure many more will follow.


They could be moving for any number of reasons. Big drops at the high end of the market - if you've mispriced - aren't that uncommon and while $300k is a big drop in $ terms, it's less than 10%. Of course the reval will hurt, but hard to tell if the reval is the big driver or aggressive pricing based on only one data point...

A couple of observations: they were assessed at $2,538,000 - well below even their reduced asking price.

They bought in 2004 for $425k. If they get $3mm, that's 7x what they paid for it.... Good for them - I hope they get it. But it's hard to feel too sorry for them.

Posted on: 2/14 14:19
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The selling has already begun. 272 Barrow was put on the market in December for 3.3 million, the taxes went from 16K to 41K per year. They just lowered their asking to 3 million. I'm sure many more will follow.

Posted on: 2/14 14:06
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i am all in favor of not creating hardships for seniors, but if someone is living in a $2.5 million house, then why can't they sell? alternatively, instead of giving seniors a handout in the form of a tax freeze, the city should offer them loans against the future sale/transfer on death. this seems more reasonable imo

Posted on: 2/14 13:43
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Taxes are services, rent control properties will appeal in tax court as they did in 1988 because tenants cannot go up as the one to four properties can go up. So, we the public will issue refund bonds to those property owners. As I mention before, just look at the friendly budget, it lists what tax abated properties would pay if they did not get their abatements. The one to four family homeowners are subsidizing them. Here is the irony, some on that would pay less taxes if they gave up their tax abatement, they choose not to go that route, protecting themselves from tax hike in a revaluation year.

Posted on: 2/14 11:25
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The timing of this is brutal. You get a $40k tax bill and are not able to write it off federal taxes. Double ouch.

Posted on: 2/14 8:40
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Greenville and Bergen-Lafayette, Fulop said last night, have been "subsidizing Downtown or another part of the city for 30 years."

Enough said, and enough is enough!!!!

Posted on: 2/14 7:56
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Hopefully, the people who are getting tax relief will want to share their perspective.


But most of them haven't gotten their letter! Bad choice from a PR standpoint, but that's just consistent with this whole debacle.

It's amazing that after all this time Yvonne either still doesn't understand what a reval is or cynically chooses to ignore it in favor of her disinformation campaign. People want to blame Fulop, but he's been in office 4 years and she's been spreading these lies to anyone who will listen for 30. She's at least one reason every mayor shied away from this.


You can't deny Fulops 4 years of purposeful delay added significant strain to the downtown residents. That's directly his fault. He purposely delayed it long enough to get reelected,and that cost JC tax payers millions in legal fees, and downtown residents 4 years of explosive growth added to their assessment.

Posted on: 2/14 7:16
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Dolomiti wrote:
Hopefully, the people who are getting tax relief will want to share their perspective.


But most of them haven't gotten their letter! Bad choice from a PR standpoint, but that's just consistent with this whole debacle.

It's amazing that after all this time Yvonne either still doesn't understand what a reval is or cynically chooses to ignore it in favor of her disinformation campaign. People want to blame Fulop, but he's been in office 4 years and she's been spreading these lies to anyone who will listen for 30. She's at least one reason every mayor shied away from this.

Posted on: 2/13 23:01
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