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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Yvonne wrote:
I just heard from 3 former neighbors in the Van Vorst neighborhood. New taxes, $31,000, $35,000, and $41,000.


Translation:
I just heard from 3 former neighbors in the Van Vorst neighborhood. Their homes are worth, 1.9 MM, 2.16 MM, and 2.53 MM.

Wow. Multimillionaires begging for pity. OK.

Posted on: 2/6 23:35
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Dolomiti wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
I just heard from 3 former neighbors in the Van Vorst neighborhood. New taxes, $31,000, $35,000, and $41,000.

If they got whacked with a big increase in taxes, then that means they spent years (if not decades) paying lower taxes... and forcing others to pay more than their fair share.

Request for sympathy: DENIED.


No, they got whacked because tax abated properties are not ratables. By comparison, those tax abated properties are paying very little and receive the same services as those being whacked.

Posted on: 2/6 23:06
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biggoron wrote:
File as promised:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VkmP6vQEiNs2LGm58Cl3V96xnVgvlyBP

I'd recommend downloading it and opening it in Excel if you have it.


Thanks biggoron! Excellent to have this in Excel format.

Posted on: 2/6 22:46
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biggoron wrote:
File as promised:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VkmP6vQEiNs2LGm58Cl3V96xnVgvlyBP

I'd recommend downloading it and opening it in Excel if you have it.


I bow to your Excel Fu!!! Wish I had those data skills.

Any idea why they don't break out the land vs improvement breakdown? It's been pointed out elsewhere that there's a lot of variability in land assessments from 88. I can find on my block 2 side by side 25x100 properties with land assessed at $10k and $40k! With the rise in land value we're seeing, differences like that in this reval will mean bookoo bucks.

Could you mine from the data how much more money is going to be coming from the abated properties due to the land rise? I can see a lot of abated condos going up $1k to $1.5k in tax.

Posted on: 2/6 22:43
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Yvonne wrote:
I just heard from 3 former neighbors in the Van Vorst neighborhood. New taxes, $31,000, $35,000, and $41,000.

If they got whacked with a big increase in taxes, then that means they spent years (if not decades) paying lower taxes... and forcing others to pay more than their fair share.

Request for sympathy: DENIED.

Posted on: 2/6 22:20
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bjay wrote:
More food for thought: Will the reval help instigate a property tax rebellion?

Hahaha... nope.

NJ has high taxes mostly because its constituents want lots of services. Trash pickup twice a week; snow ploughed instantly; pensions paid, roads maintained, the list goes on. People in Kansas don't get all this stuff, y'know.


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Town consolidation to reduce redundancies?

Yeah, no. That doesn't really work.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014 ... _rutgers_study_finds.html

http://www.governing.com/columns/eco- ... plintered-governance.html


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A pushback on municipal jobs that come with generous pension deals?

Fewer civil servants = fewer services. So... What do you want to cut? Teachers? Police? Transportation?

Posted on: 2/6 22:19
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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File as promised:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VkmP6vQEiNs2LGm58Cl3V96xnVgvlyBP

I'd recommend downloading it and opening it in Excel if you have it.

Posted on: 2/6 22:13
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I just heard from 3 former neighbors in the Van Vorst neighborhood. New taxes, $31,000, $35,000, and $41,000.

Posted on: 2/6 22:12
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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The file put out last week has assessments for 9273 properties. 1484 of them have assessments less then their most recent sale price. One was most recently sold as far back as 1998 and is assessed for less then it was purchased for! There are a clusters of these from 2005-2009 (532 of them, wonder what happened then...) and 2016-2017 (292 in 2016 and 443 in 2017). Not sure this is indicative of anything.

I would guess the sample of properties is biased downtown at the moment, but some interesting points:
-Average change in tax, $2,097.18
-Seven properties saw their taxes decrease by more then 10k, two decreased by over 20k
-607 increased by more then 10k, 27 more then $20k
-73% of properties had their taxes change from between -2.5k and 2.5k. 82% of properties have their taxes changed between -5k and +5k.

While I know no one likes to pay more, I think the last point shows (to me at least) this shouldn't be too broad of a crisis.

I'll try to get the file somewhere so others can take a look.

Posted on: 2/6 22:04
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JCman24 wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Nicky, you were not around downtown, so to say I was against anything being built is 100% wrong. As a former president of the Van Vorst Park Association, I supported development and green space. I had meetings with former Mayor Jordan. I was instrumental in getting the funds for Van Vorst Park and Hamilton, green acres. It was the first time Green Acres were used in any urban park. That took a lot of work with tons of meetings. By the way, I personally stopped the city turning Van Vorst Park into a basketball court because green acres required active sports. The trade off was vacant land on Wayne Street which has a basketball court and later became a park. Van Vorst Park also supported cut curves that are part of standard sidewalks. Someone had to the first to do that. I also started the Meet Ball, it happened to celebrated the hours we spent on the park renovations. I also got grant money to have trees place around Van Vorst and other parts of downtown. You know nothing because you were not around.


Well, what the hell happened to you?


There is a difference between fighting for your community and selling your soul to be politically correct. Attacking me has absolutely nothing to do with the tax rate.

Posted on: 2/6 20:17
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Yvonne wrote:
I also started the Meet Ball,


Oh wuz it you who left ur hat behind ?

BALLShat2_grande

Posted on: 2/6 18:39
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SOS, thanks for posting the link. It's going to be interesting to review the disparities between similar houses in my neighborhood. Just as it has been amazing to see the pre-reval disparities between similar houses in my neighborhood over the past decade.

Food for thought: $1.62 is only a prediction. Let's see what actually happens this summer. It might be more. Let's hope not.

More food for thought: Will the reval help instigate a property tax rebellion? Town consolidation to reduce redundancies? A pushback on municipal jobs that come with generous pension deals? And why hasn't that rebellion happened yet in our suburbs?

Quote:

SOS wrote:
PDF of current letters/assessments that have gone out -

http://www.asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=359

Click on "Assessment Lists" lower left of page.

Posted on: 2/6 18:39
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Yvonne wrote:
Nicky, you were not around downtown, so to say I was against anything being built is 100% wrong. As a former president of the Van Vorst Park Association, I supported development and green space. I had meetings with former Mayor Jordan. I was instrumental in getting the funds for Van Vorst Park and Hamilton, green acres. It was the first time Green Acres were used in any urban park. That took a lot of work with tons of meetings. By the way, I personally stopped the city turning Van Vorst Park into a basketball court because green acres required active sports. The trade off was vacant land on Wayne Street which has a basketball court and later became a park. Van Vorst Park also supported cut curves that are part of standard sidewalks. Someone had to the first to do that. I also started the Meet Ball, it happened to celebrated the hours we spent on the park renovations. I also got grant money to have trees place around Van Vorst and other parts of downtown. You know nothing because you were not around.


Well, what the hell happened to you?

Posted on: 2/6 18:30
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Nicky, you were not around downtown, so to say I was against anything being built is 100% wrong. As a former president of the Van Vorst Park Association, I supported development and green space. I had meetings with former Mayor Jordan. I was instrumental in getting the funds for Van Vorst Park and Hamilton, green acres. It was the first time Green Acres were used in any urban park. That took a lot of work with tons of meetings. By the way, I personally stopped the city turning Van Vorst Park into a basketball court because green acres required active sports. The trade off was vacant land on Wayne Street which has a basketball court and later became a park. Van Vorst Park also supported cut curves that are part of standard sidewalks. Someone had to the first to do that. I also started the Meet Ball, it happened to celebrated the hours we spent on the park renovations. I also got grant money to have trees place around Van Vorst and other parts of downtown. You know nothing because you were not around.

Posted on: 2/6 16:22
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JCman24 wrote:
I'm seeing a ton of downtown properties for sale on Zillow right now, whereas it seems like the market has been super tight for the last few years. Of course they're all going for more than a million, but still interesting.

Looks pretty normal to me.

In 07302, there are 160 units for sale. 29 came on the market in the past 7 days, and 9 of those are new construction.

Oh, and there are over 22,000 housing units in 07302. I.e. there is no stampede in progress.

Posted on: 2/6 15:55
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At the end of the day most buyers (except foreigners buying with buckets of cash to hide their money or buy a green card) will look at total monthly payment that includes the mortgage, taxes and maintenance (if condo) after they put down their down payment. Banks are more strict on handing out mortgages now days than 10 years ago.

All of these things mentioned in this thread is the reason why I raised the question few months ago about fair pricing on a then low taxed property if someone was interested in it. Got some answers and of course an expected one from a realtor just playing down what was about to happen at least for the short term. 2018 Trump taxes make it even worse since RE taxes above 10K can't be deducted.


http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37837


It is going to make it more interesting Spring RE market with rising interest rates and how DOW dropped 1500 points in one day. One thing going for the RE market is the lack of inventory.

Agree with you those that taxes should be fair across the City and no one neighborhood should be subsidizing another. It is also true that people who are currently buying even the tax abated properties are paying very high PILOT abatements but most of those are going to the City none to the the school system. That is what is whacked about this City!


Posted on: 2/6 0:30
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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JCman24 wrote:
I'm seeing a ton of downtown properties for sale on Zillow right now, whereas it seems like the market has been super tight for the last few years. Of course they're all going for more than a million, but still interesting.


And none of them list the new taxes of course.

Posted on: 2/6 0:02
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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I'm seeing a ton of downtown properties for sale on Zillow right now, whereas it seems like the market has been super tight for the last few years. Of course they're all going for more than a million, but still interesting.

Posted on: 2/5 23:19
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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dr_nick_riviera wrote:
Why would there even be a need for physical assessments if we went to a 5-year system? We do it algorithmically using nearby sales and comp data with perhaps a physical assessment only being trigged in the event of a sale or 10 years, whichever comes first?

People like Yvonne wouldn't be able to game the system this way and unload their properties before an expected increase this way though, so expect lots of NIMBY and NA opposition.


The city already does it algorithmically to set the ratio, but that's for the whole city. I wonder if it's possible to set up enough "districts" to achieve what you're saying. As for Yvonne, the joke's on her. The run-up in prices since she sold has been far more than any expected drop due to a tax hike!

Posted on: 2/5 21:16
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brewster wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
If anyone has advice on how to convince the city to get on, say, a 5-year schedule, let me know. ;)


Fair concern. Yvonne has made bitching and fearmongering about 88 her life work for the past 30 years. I'm just guessing, but I think a rolling reval on sales with a 10 year reval of those not sold during that decade would probably do it. 5 year would be awful expensive.

I'm reasonably confident that the revals would cost less, if the city wasn't fighting it tooth and nail. At least 1/3 of the cost was due to the canceled 2011 reval, and legal fees.


Why would there even be a need for physical assessments if we went to a 5-year system? We do it algorithmically using nearby sales and comp data with perhaps a physical assessment only being trigged in the event of a sale or 10 years, whichever comes first?

People like Yvonne wouldn't be able to game the system this way and unload their properties before an expected increase this way though, so expect lots of NIMBY and NA opposition.

Posted on: 2/5 20:01
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brewster wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
If anyone has advice on how to convince the city to get on, say, a 5-year schedule, let me know. ;)


Fair concern. Yvonne has made bitching and fearmongering about 88 her life work for the past 30 years. I'm just guessing, but I think a rolling reval on sales with a 10 year reval of those not sold during that decade would probably do it. 5 year would be awful expensive.

I'm reasonably confident that the revals would cost less, if the city wasn't fighting it tooth and nail. At least 1/3 of the cost was due to the canceled 2011 reval, and legal fees.

Posted on: 2/5 19:43
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Dolomiti wrote:
If anyone has advice on how to convince the city to get on, say, a 5-year schedule, let me know. ;)


Fair concern. Yvonne has made bitching and fearmongering about 88 her life work for the past 30 years. I'm just guessing, but I think a rolling reval on sales with a 10 year reval of those not sold during that decade would probably do it. 5 year would be awful expensive.

Posted on: 2/5 15:30
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agreed. very few people want to pay for things. i always laugh when other liberals get upset about raising the sales tax because it will hurt the poor. i counter that it isn't the poor spending $500 on a pair of jeans or shoes, and that if they are, then they are not really that poor.

people want better subway/PATH/train service, then they should be prepared to pay for it through higher fares. Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

JadedJC wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Like I said earlier, it is incredibly rich to see so many self-avowed liberals become overnight fiscal conservatives demanding more out of less, and crying unfair taxation.


Reminds of a cocktail party I went to waaay back in the 90s, when an acquaintance of mine introduced me to a Republican couple who were prominent at the time. Everything was free market this and free market that with these people, until you someone pointed out that they were living in a pretty sweet rent-controlled three-bedroom apartment on the Upper West Side. Then it was all "Hands off our rent-controlled apartment! We're entitled to this apartment!"


Like I said, when it comes to taxes and money, people can become irrational and their proclamations are often hollow and counter to the principles they claim to hold.

But, there is a certain irony to be an ardent liberal, always clamoring for more free things for everyone, and then overnight be arguing against progressive tax policies, and other such schemes that are absolutely necessary to pay and offer all these additional services.

Currently, there is an all time high clamor for free/national healthcare, universal paid family leave, free preK schooling, increased government programs, etc. I dont think many people argue against how awesome it would be to have all of that, and so much more. But, when it comes to paying for all of that, the conversation quickly turns to "why should I have to pay for that?" At some point, you have to be OK with being asked to help pay for expanded services if you are clamoring for that.

Posted on: 2/5 15:29
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dr_nick_riviera wrote:
I think it's hilarious to finally see these idiot NIMBYs and NA board members that blindly listen to people like Yvonne finally get a hard lesson in economics and supply and demand....

I for one am concerned that the people who are hit with raises will reinforce the mistake that produced this problem in the first place, and demand no more revals for another 30 years.

If anyone has advice on how to convince the city to get on, say, a 5-year schedule, let me know. ;)

Posted on: 2/5 15:15
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I think it's hilarious to finally see these idiot NIMBYs and NA board members that blindly listen to people like Yvonne finally get a hard lesson in economics and supply and demand. These groups for years lobbied against anything and everything being built, despite the fact they could have added to the Downtown ratable base and lessened the new burden on a lot of people (all the while they bemoaned how expensive the city is getting and pricing out "real residents" like themselves).

Alas, these groups decided to follow Yvonne's NIMBYism off a cliff when they decided parking was sacrosanct and made it their absolute #1 priority despite the fact we have awful schools, crumbling sidewalks, treeless streets and no infrastructure.

I'm hoping a silver lining is that the new taxes forces these people into the suburbs where they belong and JC can finally develop like every other forward looking city in the world.

Posted on: 2/5 12:54
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CatDog wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
It's incredible that the city refuses (is there a better, more apt description for their dereliction of duty?) to ticket or enforce easy things that could help the city coffers and lessen the tax burden of city residents.

A brief list of things that could be done to increase revenue:
- enforce parking regulations (zone violations, parked too close to curb, crosswalk blockings, etc)
- enforce basic traffic regulations (speeding, rolling through stop signs, running red lights, etc)
- enforce sidewalk issues
- increase permit parking fee ($15 for yearly permits is a JOKE...!)
- animal control enforcement (failure to clean after dogs, verify and fine for dog license/registration violations)

Cities should absolutely not rely on fines for budgetary reasons, because doing so encourages the government to invent new fines and come up with other ways to pillage the pockets of citizens. Taxes are and always should be the primary method for funding government.

This is the same reason why civil asset forfeiture is so perverse. If cops receive funding from stealing from citizens, they will always find new excuses to steal property.


How about this:

A brief list of things that could be done to improve quality of life which would have the unintended benefit of increasing revenue.

Because, whether or not we want the extra revenue, enforcing of traffic and parking rules, along with things like ensuring pedestrian safety through better sidewalks, is something the city SHOULD do.

Posted on: 2/5 11:46
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bodhipooh wrote:
It's incredible that the city refuses (is there a better, more apt description for their dereliction of duty?) to ticket or enforce easy things that could help the city coffers and lessen the tax burden of city residents.

A brief list of things that could be done to increase revenue:
- enforce parking regulations (zone violations, parked too close to curb, crosswalk blockings, etc)
- enforce basic traffic regulations (speeding, rolling through stop signs, running red lights, etc)
- enforce sidewalk issues
- increase permit parking fee ($15 for yearly permits is a JOKE...!)
- animal control enforcement (failure to clean after dogs, verify and fine for dog license/registration violations)

Cities should absolutely not rely on fines for budgetary reasons, because doing so encourages the government to invent new fines and come up with other ways to pillage the pockets of citizens. Taxes are and always should be the primary method for funding government.

This is the same reason why civil asset forfeiture is so perverse. If cops receive funding from stealing from citizens, they will always find new excuses to steal property.

Posted on: 2/5 11:13
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It's incredible that the city refuses (is there a better, more apt description for their dereliction of duty?) to ticket or enforce easy things that could help the city coffers and lessen the tax burden of city residents.

A brief list of things that could be done to increase revenue:
- enforce parking regulations (zone violations, parked too close to curb, crosswalk blockings, etc)
- enforce basic traffic regulations (speeding, rolling through stop signs, running red lights, etc)
- enforce sidewalk issues
- increase permit parking fee ($15 for yearly permits is a JOKE...!)
- animal control enforcement (failure to clean after dogs, verify and fine for dog license/registration violations)


Posted on: 2/5 10:47
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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AlexC wrote:
There you go - I'm gonna have these trees cut down before they mess the sidewalks. Thanks!


First ask a realtor how much value having a lovely tree lined street adds. I suspect you're being facetious, but people have seriously done this! Or at least failed to replant trees that died or were knocked down by assholes in trucks.

Posted on: 2/4 23:30
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There you go - I'm gonna have these trees cut down before they mess the sidewalks. Thanks!

Quote:

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Quote:

srs7191 wrote:
Actually, I had no idea. Makes a lot more sense now.

So when a sidewalk is all torn up by a tree, to the point of being a hazard, it's the homeowner's liability?



Yes.

Posted on: 2/4 23:18
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