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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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Posted on: 5/5 21:31
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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State rejects bid to expand golf course into Liberty State Park

Updated 5:12 PM; Posted 4:34 PM

By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com

The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY — Luxury golf course Liberty National's bid to expand onto the Caven Point area of Liberty State Park has been rejected by state environmental officials.

The golf course's owner, Paul Fireman, wanted to lease the roughly 20-acre section of the park and move three of its holes there, but New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection official George Chidley said in a letter sent Thursday to Liberty National that the DEP will not pursue the project "at this time." The agency oversees the 1,200-acre state park.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... lf_course_into_liber.html


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Posted on: 5/5 16:49
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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State rejects bid to expand golf course into Liberty State Park

Updated 5:12 PM; Posted 4:34 PM

By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com

The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY — Luxury golf course Liberty National's bid to expand onto the Caven Point area of Liberty State Park has been rejected by state environmental officials.

The golf course's owner, Paul Fireman, wanted to lease the roughly 20-acre section of the park and move three of its holes there, but New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection official George Chidley said in a letter sent Thursday to Liberty National that the DEP will not pursue the project "at this time." The agency oversees the 1,200-acre state park.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... lf_course_into_liber.html

Posted on: 5/4 17:25
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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Monroe wrote:
It's now in the hands of Murphy's DEP administrators.




After all, when you talk to someone who just came back from seeing the Grand Canyon or Yellowstone National Park you never hear them say: "Yeah, that was nice, but you know what it really needs? A golf course."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisf ... jun/14/thecaseagainstgolf



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Posted on: 3/27 12:21
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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Monroe wrote:
It's now in the hands of Murphy's DEP administrators.



According to a United Nations Environment Programme report on the impact of tourism:

"Golf course maintenance can also deplete fresh water resources. In recent years golf tourism has increased in popularity and the number of golf courses has grown rapidly. Golf courses require an enormous amount of water every day and, as with other causes of excessive extraction of water, this can result in water scarcity. If the water comes from wells, overpumping can cause saline intrusion into groundwater. Golf resorts are more and more often situated in or near protected areas or areas where resources are limited, exacerbating their impacts."

And Tourism Concern (a British organisation that works "with communities in destination countries to reduce social and environmental problems connected to tourism") calculates that "an average golf course in a tropical country such as Thailand needs 1,500kg of chemical fertilisers, pesticides and herbicides per year and uses as much water as 60,000 rural villagers".

And just in case the archetypal plutocratic golfer is inclined to dismiss those concerns as only of interest to the denizens of developing-world tropical resort countries, it must be noted that the United States suffers from water scarcity and despoliation of natural land to feed the golf-playing frenzy as well. In water-scarce Las Vegas, for instance, golf courses accounted for 28 of the top 100 water users in a 2003 survey. And since access to water in the growing desert communities of Arizona and Nevada is subsidised by tax-payers throughout the country, all Americans pay the price for the wastefulness of their recreation.

Indeed, the proliferation of golf courses - there are now approximately 16,000 in the US, by far the most of any country in the world (with the UK coming in a distant second at 2,741), according to Golf Digest magazine - epitomises the profligate approach America has taken towards developing its landscape.

Golf courses and the attendant resort and retirement communities demonstrate a preference for carefully crafted imitations of nature and small-town life to the real thing, and they impose landscape and architectural norms better suited to the American northeast climate than the sun-belt, where development is booming. Indeed, golf even comes with its own class of vehicle - no other sport, save the other emerging American pastime of auto racing, can make the same claim, nor can other sports use nearly as much land per player.

Just as developers destroy real forest in the northeast to replace it with imitation forest on a golf course and attendant suburbia ("community" in the parlance of developers), in the southwest the norms of a much more arid climate are imposed. Free-standing homes that require more energy to heat and cool, surrounded by lush lawns adjacent to golf courses, both of which require tremendous amounts of water during 100-degree summers, are not natural to the desert. And yet they are constructed, from Florida to California.

These artificial monstrosities consume on average 150 acres of land that could be put to some more useful purpose, if not just left alone. From the Everglades to the San Fernando Valley, they pervert the natural habitat and divert water resources.

So if you turn on the TV and stumble on the US Open, pause before changing the channel. No, not to watch with bated breath as a guy in a sun-visor named Tiger or Phil swings a mallet every couple of minutes in an intense effort to poke a ball towards a tiny hole, but rather to consider whether the country could do with about 15,000 fewer places to play the silly game. After all, when you talk to someone who just came back from seeing the Grand Canyon or Yellowstone National Park you never hear them say: "Yeah, that was nice, but you know what it really needs? A golf course."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisf ... jun/14/thecaseagainstgolf


Posted on: 3/26 8:56
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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just say no to more golf spacwQuote:

Stringer wrote:

Leasing Caven Point would be disaster; Area should remain natural | Feedback

Caven Point a critical natural habitat

I have just written the NJ Department of Environmental Protection to implore the Office of Leases to keep Caven Point (in Liberty State Park) as a natural wilderness area. It would be disastrous to lease it to Liberty National Golf Course for any length of time. Currently managed as protected wildlife habitat, Caven Point includes one of the last relatively undisturbed marsh areas of the Hudson River Estuary and a long natural beach.

Being off limits to people (and their dogs) from March 1 through September, the Point provides critical and unique habitat for wildlife in the area because it is relatively undisturbed. These existing benefits, which will get only more valuable as time passes, need to be factored into any land-use planning for the area.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... disaster_area_should.html


Posted on: 3/25 22:31
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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It's now in the hands of Murphy's DEP administrators.

Posted on: 3/24 12:09
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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Caven Point proposal just a land swap; Land a learning place for kids | Feedback

Liberty National has land for 1st Tee

In a recent letter to nj.com, First Tee director Ed Brockner publically referred to the proposal submitted by Liberty National Golf Course to lease the Caven Point natural area at LSP as a "proposed land swap." That's a very interesting choice of words that warrants exploration.

In November, Christie's DEP administrators issued a Request For Proposals (RFP) to lease Caven Point. This RFP can be viewed if you Google "Caven Point RFP." The RFP contains the conditions and requirements that a proposal to lease Caven Point would need to fulfill.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... nd_swap_land_a_learn.html


Posted on: 3/24 10:35
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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Leasing Caven Point would be disaster; Area should remain natural | Feedback

Caven Point a critical natural habitat

I have just written the NJ Department of Environmental Protection to implore the Office of Leases to keep Caven Point (in Liberty State Park) as a natural wilderness area. It would be disastrous to lease it to Liberty National Golf Course for any length of time. Currently managed as protected wildlife habitat, Caven Point includes one of the last relatively undisturbed marsh areas of the Hudson River Estuary and a long natural beach.

Being off limits to people (and their dogs) from March 1 through September, the Point provides critical and unique habitat for wildlife in the area because it is relatively undisturbed. These existing benefits, which will get only more valuable as time passes, need to be factored into any land-use planning for the area.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... disaster_area_should.html


Posted on: 2/8 12:44
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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The course already has 18 holes and we have 9 holes on the west side of the city. Why do we need to add more. If they want it so badly they should open the course to the public a few days per week!

Posted on: 1/29 14:15
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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https://vimeo.com/240773305

The Wildlife of Liberty State Park

By John Dunstan

also

https://vimeo.com/244578155


Posted on: 1/29 9:43
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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It distresses me that Mayor Fulop hasn't shared his thoughts about this plan. He's tweeted his opposition to the marina expansion many times, but (at far as I know) hasn't said a thing about the millionaire golfers vs. birds controversy. I hope he's going to fight it, but I'm getting worried. Does anyone know how he feels?

Posted on: 1/28 17:47
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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Fireman is still sore the economy tanked and he couldn't build all the luxury townhomes adjacent to his club, which was part of his original plan. I'm sure the marina and golf club expansion will revive the chances of that happening. Both Fireman and Fulop got stiffies when they thought they could ramrod the 90 story casino/hotel project at first-until Fulop did a 180 when it looked like the state wouldn't allow it.

Posted on: 1/27 8:54
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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Frinjc wrote:
To me, this looks like some sorts of domino things going around, and I wonder how much coordination (soon to be/ex Christie?) DEP officials did with Suntex and the golf course. You have:
1) suntex giving money in exchange for south and north marina building and restoration.
2) the golf course giving money in exchange for the nature reserve.
3) the state going for the entire development of the western side of LSP with fresh money.

It seems like screw the birds and the picnic visitors in exchange for the "completion" of LSP.

If we sell the nature reserve and develop the west side, there won't be any real nature reserve to talk about in addition to loss of important marsh land. I would be more inclined actually to negotiate with suntex on a minimal development of the southern marina (no parking take over, a sailing school) in exchange for some money for LSP western final remediation and development.


Good news that they cancelled that Tuesday public hearing to reevaluate. I asked earlier what Liberty National's position was on the marina being so close to their "exclusive country club" . The expansion of the club into the wetlands is part of the whole development plan... there are no coincidences in $$$$ real estate deals. It must be an OCD thing that drives developers to want build on every open green space.

Posted on: 1/27 8:40
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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#3 is counter to #s 1 & 2. It is true public park improvements funded using toxic cleanup fines.

The bird nesting area next to the golf course should remain as is.

Posted on: 1/25 19:31
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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To me, this looks like some sorts of domino things going around, and I wonder how much coordination (soon to be/ex Christie?) DEP officials did with Suntex and the golf course. You have:
1) suntex giving money in exchange for south and north marina building and restoration.
2) the golf course giving money in exchange for the nature reserve.
3) the state going for the entire development of the western side of LSP with fresh money.

It seems like screw the birds and the picnic visitors in exchange for the "completion" of LSP.

If we sell the nature reserve and develop the west side, there won't be any real nature reserve to talk about in addition to loss of important marsh land. I would be more inclined actually to negotiate with suntex on a minimal development of the southern marina (no parking take over, a sailing school) in exchange for some money for LSP western final remediation and development.

Posted on: 1/25 19:15
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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$25 million is a random number unattached to anything, given with no thought or analysis. Once the peninsula is developed, it will never return to what it was. I know to you it's probably just another 22 acres among many hundreds, but that spot is critical habitat. Beside, the money would go to the state. There's no guarantee it would go back into the park.

Posted on: 1/25 16:59
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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The top 5 most expensive golf club memberships in the WORLD
07/12/2017 at 2:08 pm Golf News Net

1. Liberty National – New Jersey, USA

Liberty National Golf Club looks to give members the highest quality service and facilities alike to the professionals. The course offers views of the Statue of Liberty and stuns with its beauty -- marking an amazing transformation of a former landfill. The club has fine dining, spa facilities and state-of-the-art fitness for its members. It is also now the host of the Presidents cup. The membership is kept extremely exclusive.

Initiation fee: $450,000 (£355,000)

https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnet ... memberships-world-105911/

** ***

The Bayonne Golf Club is $150,000

I miss the Lincoln Park Pitch and Putt (and driving range)

.

Posted on: 1/25 14:20
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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stillinjc wrote:
I am a little torn over this. I was against marina and casino, but this peninsula is little used. Putting three holes there would make the course unreal. I say Fireman pays $25 million for LSP improvements on top of his current offer and we have a deal.


Unreal for whom? Do you belong to Liberty National? I'd be surprised if anyone posting on here does. Why should the park, its constituents, and wildlife subsidize private profit and overreach? Firestone has built a beautiful course and reaped very generous tax benefits in the process - the status quo is working just fine.

I'd love to hear him and Nevins McCann make the case for what tournaments they have lost out on because of the "inferior view" - if any - and where they were held instead. Peddling bullshit has no barriers to entry. Those who are willing to buy bullshit get what they deserve.


That is why I say he should pay $25 million on top of the current offer. I am wondering if people would be willing to listen then.

Posted on: 1/25 13:13
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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stillinjc wrote:
I am a little torn over this. I was against marina and casino, but this peninsula is little used. Putting three holes there would make the course unreal. I say Fireman pays $25 million for LSP improvements on top of his current offer and we have a deal.


Unreal for whom? Do you belong to Liberty National? I'd be surprised if anyone posting on here does. Why should the park, its constituents, and wildlife subsidize private profit and overreach? Firestone has built a beautiful course and reaped very generous tax benefits in the process - the status quo is working just fine.

I'd love to hear him and Nevins McCann make the case for what tournaments they have lost out on because of the "inferior view" - if any - and where they were held instead. Peddling bullshit has no barriers to entry. Those who are willing to buy bullshit get what they deserve.

Posted on: 1/25 10:59
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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stillinjc wrote:
You have 3/4 of LSP that is undisturbed, and a bird habitat.


Sort of.

The interior of LSP is an emergent woodland habitat. It has some bird nesting activity but doesn't support very much feeding activity, and doesn't support any of the tidal / marshland species that Caven Point does. Perhaps when (if) the interior restoration project is completed and is found to successfully support those species an assessment of Caven Point could be considered.

Posted on: 1/25 10:11
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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You have 3/4 of LSP that is undisturbed, and a bird habitat.

Posted on: 1/25 9:58
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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Not every square inch of land needs to be intensively utilized by humans. Undisturbed habitat is exceedingly rare in Jersey City and this area should be preserved.

Posted on: 1/25 9:20
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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It's so sensitive an area that it's off limits for half the year. Leave it to the birds!

Posted on: 1/25 9:08
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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I am a little torn over this. I was against marina and casino, but this peninsula is little used. Putting three holes there would make the course unreal. I say Fireman pays $25 million for LSP improvements on top of his current offer and we have a deal.

Posted on: 1/25 8:59
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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Gov Murphy can kill this with one phone call-will he?

Posted on: 1/24 15:50
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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Posted on: 1/24 14:31
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Re: JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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1. That area isn't only "bird-friendly" habitat, it's an important breeding area for a number of bird species and because of that is closed off almost half the year for breeding season. These breeding grounds would be lost permanently if the golf course were allowed to expand into there. The park has already lost a significant number of breeding and/or overwintering birds such as Long-eared owls and olive-sided flycatchers due to removal of habitat. Invasive plants from the Sandy inundation has destroyed an even greater amount of habitat.

2. Nevins: that space already is beautiful and great for wildlife. "Pleasing to the eye" depends on whether you are wearing plaid pants and carrying a putter or wearing feathers.

3. This expansion doesn't need to happen to attract high-profile PGA events. It already does because it's essentially the only game in town. There are no other top flight courses that are Manhattan accessible and that (already) have views of the city and harbor. Bethpage, Baltusrol and the courses in Westchester are not situated to provide convenient access to the city, nor do viewers see the city when they watch events from those courses.

4. First Tee is a wonderful program. Mr. Firestone should definitely sponsor their expansion into Hudson County. It doesn't require converting the peninsula for him to do that.


Posted on: 1/24 13:44
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JC golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park
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Jersey City golf course seeks to expand into Liberty State Park

Posted January 24, 2018 at 11:48 AM | Updated January 24, 2018 at 11:58 AM

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY — Tucked away on the southernmost end of Liberty State Park is a 22-acre peninsula covered in reeds and ringed in part by a sandy beach.

It’s a patch of wilderness that makes visitors forget they’re in a densely populated urban jungle. You might spot yellow-crowned night herons there, or horseshoe crabs, or the American Oystercatcher, a chicken-sized bird.

“They all hang around here,” Jersey City birder Rick Cordner said on a recent trip. “This tidal flat is just an amazing habitat for birds. You see the mallards digging in the frozen muck right now for vegetation? It's just an amazing place."


http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... r.html#incart_2box_hudson

Posted on: 1/24 12:17
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