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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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papadage wrote:
As a motorcycle rider, I say fuck no to that. Heavy merged, like at the approaches to,, and the post-toll access ways to the tunnels are terrible. They are the only places where I routinely almost get hit when riding, and got hit once.

People are so anxious to crowd each other away at a merge, and motorcyclists are basically invisible to most drivers, that is is very easy to simply get knocked over.


I have this fantasy of people who won't alternate merge and act like it's a death match getting ticketed. Fantasy like I said.

Posted on: 1/14 16:48
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papadage wrote:
As a motorcycle rider, I say fuck no to that. Heavy merged, like at the approaches to,, and the post-toll access ways to the tunnels are terrible. They are the only places where I routinely almost get hit when riding, and got hit once.

People are so anxious to crowd each other away at a merge, and motorcyclists are basically invisible to most drivers, that is is very easy to simply get knocked over.

It is against a very important maxim of riding, to keep distance between you and the cars that will be trying to kill you.


To each their own. I routinely ride into the city, and for about two years it was the only way by which I commuted into the city, and never had issues using the Holland Tunnel. But, the savings associated with commuting by bike are many: reduced toll rates, very good gas mileage, ease of parking, less time wasted stuck in traffic jams.

Posted on: 1/14 16:02
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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As a motorcycle rider, I say fuck no to that. Heavy merged, like at the approaches to,, and the post-toll access ways to the tunnels are terrible. They are the only places where I routinely almost get hit when riding, and got hit once.

People are so anxious to crowd each other away at a merge, and motorcyclists are basically invisible to most drivers, that is is very easy to simply get knocked over.

It is against a very important maxim of riding, to keep distance between you and the cars that will be trying to kill you.

Posted on: 1/14 14:12
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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hero69 wrote:
i'm just now reading nyt magazine article about nyc subway:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/mag ... on-wealth-inequality.html

article makes me appreciate PATH and the subway more...maybe fares should be raised to make necessary improvements?


Not only should fares rise, but they should add a peak-hour premium to whatever is needed to reduce overcrowding and to encourage folks to go a half hour earlier or later. Unpopular opinion, but PATH is a fraction of the costs associated with driving.


Only true when considering a single commuter. For two people, driving can be about the same cost as the combined round trip cost of PATH and subway fare for two people, which is close to $24.

Heck, once warmer weather arrives, a single person can do his/her commute for less than PATH and subway fare when commuting by motorcycle, which is incredibly cheap and efficient.

Posted on: 1/14 12:19
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hero69 wrote:
i'm just now reading nyt magazine article about nyc subway:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/mag ... on-wealth-inequality.html

article makes me appreciate PATH and the subway more...maybe fares should be raised to make necessary improvements?


Not only should fares rise, but they should add a peak-hour premium to whatever is needed to reduce overcrowding and to encourage folks to go a half hour earlier or later. Unpopular opinion, but PATH is a fraction of the costs associated with driving.

Posted on: 1/14 11:45
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i'm just now reading nyt magazine article about nyc subway:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/mag ... on-wealth-inequality.html

article makes me appreciate PATH and the subway more...maybe fares should be raised to make necessary improvements?

Posted on: 1/14 6:03
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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papadage wrote:
One of the biggest things they could do to alleviate some crowding, or at least lessen discomfort, is pass some kind of regulation that backpacks and messenger bags need to be off the shoulder in the train. When a few people with packed backpacks are in the car, it makes it difficult to get in or out, and it takes up space.


You don't need a regulation. Just ask. I ask people all the time to take down their backpack and can't remember anyone saying no - or even putting up a fuss. Occasionally someone rolls their eyes, but hey - their problem, not mine.

Posted on: 1/11 15:16
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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In the morning the train from Grove to Newark moves like a rocket, there's nobody on it.
I don't do it to get a seat, I couldn't care less about standing, it's having to wait for multiple trains to go by before you get in one.
Not as many people get out at Exchange Place as want to get in. As far as I'm concerned they have it the worst at Exchange Place.
Again, consider trying it.
And name calling without the facts is rude, and there is more than enough rudeness on jclist.

Posted on: 1/11 13:31
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val7101 wrote:
I don't think I'm the troll. Have you tried it?


I've been to Newark. The trek from Journal Square to Harrison is horrible and is frequently delayed.

No one in their right mind is going to make an ~18 minute trek from Grove to Harrison, do an awkward transfer that may have to involve existing the system to due construction, and spend another 18 minutes backtracking to Grove just for a chance at a seat, which is no guarantee because they fill up at Newark.

An extra 35 minutes or so added to the commute when you could just stand in line and wait another 240 seconds for the next train.

As someone mentioned. The smart thing to do is walk to Exchange Place if it's within walking distance as there a lot of people that get off on that stop during the morning rush.

Posted on: 1/11 10:47
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JCGuys wrote:
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val7101 wrote:
For WTC commuters shut out at Grove:
Take the Newark train back to Harrison not JSQ. JSQ is frequently as bad as Grove now and Harrison is only 3 minutes away and frequently much more civilized. It's pretty annoying to take the train backward to JSQ and still get shut out of one or two trains. Particularly between 8 and 9am.


This is a troll post. It's like 15 minutes to Harrison. 15 minutes back to Journal Square, and it's not an easy transfer -- you might even have to exit the system to get back in.


yeah I read that and thought the "3" was surely a typo, as it's closer to 30 minutes roundtrip.

Posted on: 1/11 9:28
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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i wish PATH had countdown clocks at the entrances to the stations so people know when trains are coming and i replace the elevators and grove street escalator with something that does not break down. why are the nyc subway and nj transit light rail so much more reliable? why not not fully enclose the main entrance to the grove street PATH so that the escalator is not exposed to the elements.

it is ridiculous that the elderly/handicapped and pregnant women/women with baby strollers have to climb those stairs.

Posted on: 1/11 0:18
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bodhipooh wrote:
Not sure how this matters... so, yes, they theoretically operate
24/7, but the 35 minute time span between trains in the late evening is crazy. I have seen late evening trains packed as bad as morning rush hour trains.

It makes a HUGE difference. Even if the trains are packed and take a "whopping" 35 minutes to show up.

Try living somewhere like Boston, where the T shuts down between 1AM (!) and 5PM. I assume that's good for maintenance, but kinda sucks if you are out after 1AM.

Posted on: 1/10 22:35
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papadage wrote:
One of the biggest things they could do to alleviate some crowding, or at least lessen discomfort, is pass some kind of regulation that backpacks and messenger bags need to be off the shoulder in the train. When a few people with packed backpacks are in the car, it makes it difficult to get in or out, and it takes up space.

I'm a big believer in regulations, and I usually take off my backpack, even smaller backpacks sometimes.

However, codifying that as a regulation would be... kinda nuts. Will PAPD carry tape measures? How are they supposed to write tickets without further clogging up the system?

Although it's not perfectly effective, some sort of PR campaign is probably a better plan.

Posted on: 1/10 22:29
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and to think that christioe was even considering cutting back on PATH service. with a governor like him, no needs enemies!Quote:

JCGuys wrote:
I've never had standing room only when boarding a train at 3am on MTA. However, there have been times I've been at 14th street at 3am and I can't even board a train because it's packed worse than a WTC-bound train departing Grove St. during rush hour.

It's true, PATH is one of the few subway systems in the world that operate 24/7, but that's because the demand is there. Show me another system that transports as many people, given the microscopic size of the system, relatively speaking.

PATH is vital to the economic health of the region and is used heavily during the overnight hours. I'm willing to venture that most systems in the world do not have the same passenger demand overnight as PATH.

Posted on: 1/10 16:57
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papadage wrote:
One of the biggest things they could do to alleviate some crowding, or at least lessen discomfort, is pass some kind of regulation that backpacks and messenger bags need to be off the shoulder in the train.


On my commute on the WTC line, I have to say, most people do take off their large backpacks. The people I see not doing it seem to be newcomers or tourists. Often some hipster with a backpack someone trekking across Alaska would wear.

Posted on: 1/10 16:51
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I don't think I'm the troll. Have you tried it?

Posted on: 1/10 16:46
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One of the biggest things they could do to alleviate some crowding, or at least lessen discomfort, is pass some kind of regulation that backpacks and messenger bags need to be off the shoulder in the train. When a few people with packed backpacks are in the car, it makes it difficult to get in or out, and it takes up space.

Posted on: 1/10 16:00
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Posted on: 1/10 15:49
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third_street_hats wrote:
I agree that the service frequency should be increased, but even NYC subway switches to every ~20 mins between trains ~12am-5am weekdays and the same schedule on almost every line on weekends. Some lines are better than others with standard 4-6 minute intervals all the way up until 1am on weekends.

Copenhagen is a little better with 20 mins between trains 12am-6am weekdays and 7-15 minutes between trains during the same periods on weekends.


The thing about Copenhagen is that it is not a great comparison: their metro is simpler (two lines) with driverless trains, and Copenhagen is a tiny city, and definitely smaller than the area served by the PATH (JC, Hoboken, Harrison, NWK, plus the areas in Manhattan) so their 20-minute span is appropriate for their needs. Also, the Copenhagen demographics are very different, with lots (most?) people commuting or getting around by bike. During my time there, seemingly everyone had a bike, and rode everywhere with it. It was not at all uncommon to see people leaving a bar and jump on a bike, or women clad in dresses leaving work, or events.

Just to confirm my observations, I took a quick look in Wikipedia and according to the figures cited there, the Copenhagen annual ridership is 61 MM, while the PATH is 25% higher, at 76.5 MM. We should totally have more service in the late evening hours.

Posted on: 1/10 15:25
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South_Sixth wrote:
When I commuted from Harsimus Cove to the WTC, in the mornings I would walk past Grove St to Exchange Place.

It is only about a 1/2 mile from Grove St to Exchange Place taking about 7 to 8 minutes

There are two train lines from Exchange Place to the WTC
During peak morning. Nwk to WTC scheduled frequency is 4 minutes. Hob to WTC is scheduled every 6 minutes
Train to WTC arrived at Exchange Place usually every 90 seconds to 3 minutes
A lot of people get off at Exchange Place making room to get on the train.
Don't have a delay on a train waiting to get to the Exchange Place platform

I always carried a ferry ticket with me in case something happened to PATH and no trains were going to the WTC.
Didn't have to wait on the ticket line before boarding a ferry.

Overall walking to Exchange Place didn't add more than a couple of minutes to my commute, and it was a more enjoyable commute. I liked the walk and don't mind the cold.


Shhhh.... please don't talk about it or the platform at Exchange Place will end up as bad as Grove.

Posted on: 1/10 14:50
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When I commuted from Harsimus Cove to the WTC, in the mornings I would walk past Grove St to Exchange Place.

It is only about a 1/2 mile from Grove St to Exchange Place taking about 7 to 8 minutes

There are two train lines from Exchange Place to the WTC
During peak morning. Nwk to WTC scheduled frequency is 4 minutes. Hob to WTC is scheduled every 6 minutes
Train to WTC arrived at Exchange Place usually every 90 seconds to 3 minutes
A lot of people get off at Exchange Place making room to get on the train.
Don't have a delay on a train waiting to get to the Exchange Place platform

I always carried a ferry ticket with me in case something happened to PATH and no trains were going to the WTC.
Didn't have to wait on the ticket line before boarding a ferry.

Overall walking to Exchange Place didn't add more than a couple of minutes to my commute, and it was a more enjoyable commute. I liked the walk and don't mind the cold.

Posted on: 1/10 14:21
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I've never had standing room only when boarding a train at 3am on MTA. However, there have been times I've been at 14th street at 3am and I can't even board a train because it's packed worse than a WTC-bound train departing Grove St. during rush hour.

It's true, PATH is one of the few subway systems in the world that operate 24/7, but that's because the demand is there. Show me another system that transports as many people, given the microscopic size of the system, relatively speaking.

PATH is vital to the economic health of the region and is used heavily during the overnight hours. I'm willing to venture that most systems in the world do not have the same passenger demand overnight as PATH.

Posted on: 1/10 14:15
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I agree that the service frequency should be increased, but even NYC subway switches to every ~20 mins between trains ~12am-5am weekdays and the same schedule on almost every line on weekends. Some lines are better than others with standard 4-6 minute intervals all the way up until 1am on weekends.

Copenhagen is a little better with 20 mins between trains 12am-6am weekdays and 7-15 minutes between trains during the same periods on weekends.

Posted on: 1/10 13:49
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JCGuys wrote:
Ditto. Any other transit agency in the world, you'd likely get a seat between midnight and 4am. But in PATH they run so few trains that it's standing room only, even worse than rush hour sometimes.


You do realize that PATH is one of about 10 subway lines worldwide that operate 24/7, right?


Not sure how this matters... so, yes, they theoretically operate
24/7, but the 35 minute time span between trains in the late evening is crazy. I have seen late evening trains packed as bad as morning rush hour trains.

Quote:

In fact, only the NYC subway, PATH and Copenhagen Metro operate their entire networks 24/7.


Cool little trivia night factoid.

Posted on: 1/10 13:19
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JCGuys wrote:
Ditto. Any other transit agency in the world, you'd likely get a seat between midnight and 4am. But in PATH they run so few trains that it's standing room only, even worse than rush hour sometimes.


You do realize that PATH is one of about 10 subway lines worldwide that operate 24/7, right?

In fact, only the NYC subway, PATH and Copenhagen Metro operate their entire networks 24/7.

Posted on: 1/10 12:15
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val7101 wrote:
For WTC commuters shut out at Grove:
Take the Newark train back to Harrison not JSQ. JSQ is frequently as bad as Grove now and Harrison is only 3 minutes away and frequently much more civilized. It's pretty annoying to take the train backward to JSQ and still get shut out of one or two trains. Particularly between 8 and 9am.


This is a troll post. It's like 15 minutes to Harrison. 15 minutes back to Journal Square, and it's not an easy transfer -- you might even have to exit the system to get back in.

Posted on: 1/10 10:59
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There was a news story on some local news website talking about start of the next phase to upgrading Penn Station NYC. Minimal number of commuter trains to NYC, recommending getting off @ Newark and taking PATH. Another option was NJ Transit Bus Service into City from special staging areas.

Posted on: 1/8 12:24
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i hope you arent banking on any investment is public transit (especially in NYC) in the next 4 years since this administration is the most anti-public one thats been in office in a very long time.

Posted on: 1/8 12:08
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I can't believe there have been no comments on here today... PATH was shut down for a couple of hours this morning because of a broken track, leading to a refugee-like shuffle down Columbus to the ferry. I was fortunate enough to be one of the earlier arrivals at the ferry - by the time I got on the boat, the line for tickets extended to the Hyatt. NJ Transit had a train stuck in the tunnel this morning. JFK flooded over the weekend. LIRR had broken tracks last week. The bridge over the Newark Bay shut down the week before because it had "dropped several inches"...

Calling our infrastructure third world is an insult to a good portion of the third world...

Posted on: 1/8 11:58
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For WTC commuters shut out at Grove:
Take the Newark train back to Harrison not JSQ. JSQ is frequently as bad as Grove now and Harrison is only 3 minutes away and frequently much more civilized. It's pretty annoying to take the train backward to JSQ and still get shut out of one or two trains. Particularly between 8 and 9am.

Posted on: 1/3 9:11
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