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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Looks like non-condo owners are seeing the biggest tax benefits. Commercial properties look like the net losers.

The value of vacant land is much less than I thought it would be...

Posted on: 12/14 15:30
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Posted on: 12/14 15:28
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dr_nick_riviera wrote:
Can someone explain the distinction between the Downtown section and the "12 UNITS OR LESS(Resi NBHDs)" on this document here?

http://jerseycity.hosted.civiclive.co ... ndo%20NBHD%20Analysis.pdf

Average increase for Downtown condos looks to be 30% but the "12 UNITS OR LESS(Resi NBHDs)" is about 10%. Does this mean that smaller, walkup condo buildings in Downtown can expect an increase of less than 30%?


FINALLY!!

1.62% ?!? Much higher than I thought, even though property taxes are going down. Makes to sense.

Posted on: 12/14 15:26
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bodhipooh wrote:
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jc201jc wrote:
http://www.cityofjerseycity.com/RevaluationUpdate

if you click "1-4 family neighborhood analysis" on the bottom of the page, it opens a PDF with average tax increases by neighborhood. Downtown JC taxes are looking to go up by 50% (unless I'm misinterpreting the table). But...tell me again how the housing prices won't be affected by this?


Going by the document, it looks like the increases in DTJC are anywhere from mid 50% to 75%, with the sole exception of the Van Leer neighborhood (WTF is that?) which is expected to go up by only 41%.

Interesting... I expected DT to get even higher increases. But, overall, the picture is bleak for the administration in terms of optics. Just as had been argued and pointed out multiple times prior to the reval, the current tax situation was a reverse Robin Hood scenario, and the numbers are damning. EVERY neighborhood outside of DTJC is going to see reductions, some quite substantial, with five rare exceptions, expected to have minor increases, three of which are under 5%.

And, it seems like they are expecting the tax rate to come out at about 1.62%. While that is welcome news for the DTJC homeowners, it is likely bad overall for the city, as pressure is likely to increase to force JC to take on a larger share of the local school budget if the property tax rate is so low compared to other NJ towns. At 2%, the city could argue that anything higher was a huge burden on residents, but at 1.6%, I believe that would be one of the absolute lowest property tax rates in the state (outside of Cape May county) and makes us a target for increased pressure.


The Heights and JSQ averages seem super low especially for the Heights which had the greatest increase this year in prices.

Also, how could anyone whos taxes arent increasing / substantially dropping (greenville & west side) complain that downtown isnt paying enough ? Seems like everyone wants a free ride these days

Posted on: 12/14 15:24
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Can someone explain the distinction between the Downtown section and the "12 UNITS OR LESS(Resi NBHDs)" on this document here?

http://jerseycity.hosted.civiclive.co ... ndo%20NBHD%20Analysis.pdf

Average increase for Downtown condos looks to be 30% but the "12 UNITS OR LESS(Resi NBHDs)" is about 10%. Does this mean that smaller, walkup condo buildings in Downtown can expect an increase of less than 30%?

Posted on: 12/14 14:24
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brewster wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
Anyway, really interested to see what others have to say/opine about the property tax rate potentially coming out at 1.62% and what the implications may be for our city and residents.


So many moving targets it's hard to guess where it'll end up. Is the rate vs home value a zero sum game where your increase stays the same? My DT taxes are $17k, I won't be surprised if they double, but I've done well over 20 years on value and rents. I'm sure I'd be less zen if I bought recently.


Just to clarify, that 1.62% number was taken from the document (linked earlier) provided by the city as an update on the ongoing reval now that it is 85% completed. Based on that, I am guessing the final rate will be somewhat close.

Posted on: 12/14 14:12
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bodhipooh wrote:
Anyway, really interested to see what others have to say/opine about the property tax rate potentially coming out at 1.62% and what the implications may be for our city and residents.


So many moving targets it's hard to guess where it'll end up. Is the rate vs home value a zero sum game where your increase stays the same? My DT taxes are $17k, I won't be surprised if they double, but I've done well over 20 years on value and rents. I'm sure I'd be less zen if I bought recently.

Posted on: 12/14 12:57
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bodhipooh wrote:
Going by the document, it looks like the increases in DTJC are anywhere from mid 50% to 75%, with the sole exception of the Van Leer neighborhood (WTF is that?) which is expected to go up by only 41%.


I believe Van Leer is the area by 18th & Coles, where a chocolate factory once stood.

As for AMo, you can't expect everyone to recall every detail of every thread, even if they read it. This is not a "true names" site, no one should be called out for anonymity, though civility would be nice (excepting extreme provocations like mealymouthed hypocrisy).


18th & Coles... that's the area now christened as SoHo West by real estate dolts, right?

As for AMo, and the matter of anonymity, I agree that using that as a argument to dismiss an opinion or post is silly. This BBS is definitely based on screen names (some of which can be easily "translated" to real life names with a quick Google search, such as mine) so I agree with your overall post/logic. I was just pointing out that Aaron has been forthcoming about his real name on several other threads, so I wouldn't necessarily say he is anonymous in here.

Anyway, really interested to see what others have to say/opine about the property tax rate potentially coming out at 1.62% and what the implications may be for our city and residents.

Posted on: 12/14 12:36
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bodhipooh wrote:
Going by the document, it looks like the increases in DTJC are anywhere from mid 50% to 75%, with the sole exception of the Van Leer neighborhood (WTF is that?) which is expected to go up by only 41%.


I believe Van Leer is the area by 18th & Coles, where a chocolate factory once stood.

As for AMo, you can't expect everyone to recall every detail of every thread, even if they read it. This is not a "true names" site, no one should be called out for anonymity, though civility would be nice (excepting extreme provocations like mealymouthed hypocrisy).

Posted on: 12/14 11:46
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jc201jc wrote:
http://www.cityofjerseycity.com/RevaluationUpdate

if you click "1-4 family neighborhood analysis" on the bottom of the page, it opens a PDF with average tax increases by neighborhood. Downtown JC taxes are looking to go up by 50% (unless I'm misinterpreting the table). But...tell me again how the housing prices won't be affected by this?


Going by the document, it looks like the increases in DTJC are anywhere from mid 50% to 75%, with the sole exception of the Van Leer neighborhood (WTF is that?) which is expected to go up by only 41%.

Interesting... I expected DT to get even higher increases. But, overall, the picture is bleak for the administration in terms of optics. Just as had been argued and pointed out multiple times prior to the reval, the current tax situation was a reverse Robin Hood scenario, and the numbers are damning. EVERY neighborhood outside of DTJC is going to see reductions, some quite substantial, with five rare exceptions, expected to have minor increases, three of which are under 5%.

And, it seems like they are expecting the tax rate to come out at about 1.62%. While that is welcome news for the DTJC homeowners, it is likely bad overall for the city, as pressure is likely to increase to force JC to take on a larger share of the local school budget if the property tax rate is so low compared to other NJ towns. At 2%, the city could argue that anything higher was a huge burden on residents, but at 1.6%, I believe that would be one of the absolute lowest property tax rates in the state (outside of Cape May county) and makes us a target for increased pressure.

Posted on: 12/14 11:37
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http://www.cityofjerseycity.com/RevaluationUpdate

if you click "1-4 family neighborhood analysis" on the bottom of the page, it opens a PDF with average tax increases by neighborhood. Downtown JC taxes are looking to go up by 50% (unless I'm misinterpreting the table). But...tell me again how the housing prices won't be affected by this?

Posted on: 12/14 10:55
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AMo wrote:
So what I don't do is respond to attacks from people too cowardly to identify themselves.


You seem pretty anonymous to me, AMo. Plenty of people know who I am, but I can't claim to not be anonymous here.


Huh? He has publicly identified himself in other threads, particularly the one about the pedestrian plaza, the one about the "food trucks wars" and the one about the chain businesses ordinance.

Posted on: 12/14 6:39
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AMo wrote:
So what I don't do is respond to attacks from people too cowardly to identify themselves.


You seem pretty anonymous to me, AMo. Plenty of people know who I am, but I can't claim to not be anonymous here.

Posted on: 12/13 20:45
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AMo wrote:
So what I don't do is respond to attacks from people too cowardly to identify themselves.


Spoken like a true minion and ally of Yvonne. Deflect, change the subject, run away from your actual words and actions and pretend you're taking some sort of moral high ground.

Posted on: 12/13 13:10
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So what I don't do is respond to attacks from people too cowardly to identify themselves.

Posted on: 12/12 20:34
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AMo wrote:
The cost of the Mayor's purely political delay (the court called his claims "frivolous) is actually closer to five million dollars if you add the 1.2 million more charged by the second company. During the four years of this political stunt, a good part of the city (mostly the poorer parts) were over-taxed. That's what I call moving Jersey City forward. A true progressive.


And Comrade, you are true progressive. Except when throw foodtruck folk under bus, or endorsing candidate for Ward E with close ties to developers. In the end maybe all about what is best for selling pizza?

Posted on: 12/9 10:05
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The cost of the Mayor's purely political delay (the court called his claims "frivolous) is actually closer to five million dollars if you add the 1.2 million more charged by the second company. During the four years of this political stunt, a good part of the city (mostly the poorer parts) were over-taxed. That's what I call moving Jersey City forward. A true progressive.

Posted on: 12/8 12:35
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Yvonne wrote:
The senior tax freeze does not benefit Jersey City homeowners, I had a next door neighbor who only had Social Security but she had two rentals in her building. The state requires a portion of the senior freeze or in her case one third. Her income with her rentals was probably $50,000 a year. Seniors in the suburban living in one family homes with a higher income receive the full tax freeze. Then the income was $75,000, it is probably higher now.


For all your howling about tax unfairness for decades you still have no idea how it works. Of course she can only get a break on the owner occupied portion, THATS HOW PROPERTY TAXES WORK!! The rentals are a business, and should be treated as such. Makes me wonder if this person files their "form E" taxes properly at all.

Posted on: 12/7 16:57
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The senior tax freeze does not benefit Jersey City homeowners, I had a next door neighbor who only had Social Security but she had two rentals in her building. The state requires a portion of the senior freeze or in her case one third. Her income with her rentals was probably $50,000 a year. Seniors in the suburban living in one family homes with a higher income receive the full tax freeze. Then the income was $75,000, it is probably higher now.

Posted on: 12/7 15:52
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neverleft wrote:
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Final tab for canceled Jersey City reval is $3.8M

Updated 12:36 PM; Posted 11:55 AM

By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY -- The final tab for the property revaluation Jersey City halted in 2013, plus the city's legal fight to break its contract with the company conducting the long-delayed reval, is $3,784,198.

The amount became official last week when Jersey City finally issued payments to Realty Appraisal Co., the West New York firm hired to conduct the aborted 2011 reval. A judge in April 2016 ordered the city to pay the company, but the city appealed, lost the appeal and in September the New Jersey Supreme Court said it would not hear the case.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... m.html#incart_2box_hudson


The last paragraph in the linked article should be cause for concern. The city administration needs to get this reval completed and implemented and be done with it. The ongoing uncertainty is unfair to homeowners, as well as potential sellers and buyers.

Posted on: 12/7 15:49
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Final tab for canceled Jersey City reval is $3.8M

Updated 12:36 PM; Posted 11:55 AM

By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY -- The final tab for the property revaluation Jersey City halted in 2013, plus the city's legal fight to break its contract with the company conducting the long-delayed reval, is $3,784,198.

The amount became official last week when Jersey City finally issued payments to Realty Appraisal Co., the West New York firm hired to conduct the aborted 2011 reval. A judge in April 2016 ordered the city to pay the company, but the city appealed, lost the appeal and in September the New Jersey Supreme Court said it would not hear the case.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... m.html#incart_2box_hudson

Posted on: 12/7 12:58
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Every senior property owner should be filing for the Senior Freeze (Property Tax Reimbursement) Program and the city should be providing some assistance. Even if one currently does not meet the income or other requirements, it is important to establish ones' base year. Jersey City is not exempt because of PILOTs.



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07310 wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Does anyone know how NJ's property tax relief programs will impact the reval costs?

I know there is some sort of income-based rebate and a "senior freeze," but I don't know how that might impact some bills or rebates.


There are lots of hoops you have to jump through and you don't get any relief until many years have passed.

It doesn't look that bad. Over 65, NJ resident for 10 years, paid your property taxes, meet income limits, no 2nd homes etc.

Is JC exempt because of PILOT?

Posted on: 12/7 12:45
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07310 wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
Does anyone know how NJ's property tax relief programs will impact the reval costs?

I know there is some sort of income-based rebate and a "senior freeze," but I don't know how that might impact some bills or rebates.


There are lots of hoops you have to jump through and you don't get any relief until many years have passed.

It doesn't look that bad. Over 65, NJ resident for 10 years, paid your property taxes, meet income limits, no 2nd homes etc.

Is JC exempt because of PILOT?

Posted on: 12/7 10:43
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The senior freeze is worth looking into:

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/ptr/



Posted on: 12/7 9:21
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Dolomiti wrote:
Does anyone know how NJ's property tax relief programs will impact the reval costs?

I know there is some sort of income-based rebate and a "senior freeze," but I don't know how that might impact some bills or rebates.


There are lots of hoops you have to jump through and you don't get any relief until many years have passed.

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/ptr/eligibility.shtml

Posted on: 12/6 19:27
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Does anyone know how NJ's property tax relief programs will impact the reval costs?

I know there is some sort of income-based rebate and a "senior freeze," but I don't know how that might impact some bills or rebates.

Posted on: 12/6 18:17
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dcj wrote:
if you itemize, you can't use standard deduction. that increase is meaningless.


You seem to have a misconception on how taxes work. You can always itemize but if it's total is below the standard deduction then you take the standard deduction.

Posted on: 12/6 14:59
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if you itemize, you can't use standard deduction. that increase is meaningless.

Posted on: 12/6 13:22
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In any case, the "reform" seems more profitable for investors who buy-to-rent since it looks like there won't be cap on SALT deduction. Imho though, any investment in this area should take into consideration the likelihood of a downward adjustment in rents with more units turning on the market.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the- ... hat-do-you-owe-2017-10-26


Rent income / loss has been treated as passive. Once your adjusted gross income goes over $100k, the tax advantage of owning investment property (ability to take losses against your active income) pretty much goes away.

So far I haven't found any articles on changes, if any, to the tax treatment of real estate income / loss.


One real estate blogger (and landlord) thinks RE investors will win big.
Quote:

https://investfourmore.com/2017/12/04/ ... x-law-affect-real-estate/

How will the new tax reform laws affect real estate investors?
The new tax laws aren’t doing any favors for homeowners, but the same cannot be said for real estate investors. The tax bills in the House and Senate are very business friendly. Right now, real estate investors pay much of their taxes as ordinary income. The highest tax bracket is 39.6% (which will also likely change), so on rental and flip income, most investors pay high tax rates based on how much income they make.

Most real estate investors use LLCs or S corporations to do business if they do not simply pay taxes as an individual. When you operate these types of businesses, the income passes through the corporation to the individual. In both the House and the Senate bills, pass-through tax rates would drastically change. If you were in the highest tax bracket, instead of paying 39.6%—or whatever the new highest rate will be (possibly 38)—you would pay 25% on pass-through income. The senate bill has some restrictions for those that make over $700,000, while the House bill does not. For those who have rentals or flip houses in a corporation, you will likely see big drops in your tax bill. I have 18 flips going at the moment, so this could literally save me hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes in the next couple of years. However, some of these rules may not take effect until 2019.

The new rules change the corporate tax rate from 35% to 20%.

Here are some other changes that will benefit real estate investors if the changes make it into the final bill:

The depreciation schedule will decrease for rental property owners from 27.5 years to 25 years on residential properties and from 39 years to 25 years for nonresidential property.
Landlords will still be able to deduct their interest from mortgages in full on rentals they own.
Here is another article with more information on the changes with real estate.



Posted on: 12/6 10:20
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In any case, the "reform" seems more profitable for investors who buy-to-rent since it looks like there won't be cap on SALT deduction. Imho though, any investment in this area should take into consideration the likelihood of a downward adjustment in rents with more units turning on the market.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the- ... hat-do-you-owe-2017-10-26


Rent income / loss has been treated as passive. Once your adjusted gross income goes over $100k, the tax advantage of owning investment property (ability to take losses against your active income) pretty much goes away.

So far I haven't found any articles on changes, if any, to the tax treatment of real estate income / loss.

Posted on: 12/6 7:39
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