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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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Monroe wrote:
A ten family apartment building should be paying much more in tax than what you say, and likely will after a reval.

And yes, total tax and tax rate are different, of course. My point from your first suggestion was that suburban/wealthy homeowners are already paying a type of 'luxury' tax annually on their homes, because they get so shortchanged in school support from Trenton.


It's actually unlikely to go up much. >4 units is commercial, and appraised not on current ridiculous single family and condo comps but on it's rents and cap rate, ie: it's profitability. And lets say it goes to $1m and the rate is 1.8%, that's still only $1800 tax per family.

Posted on: 9/16 18:07
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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A ten family apartment building should be paying much more in tax than what you say, and likely will after a reval.

And yes, total tax and tax rate are different, of course. My point from your first suggestion was that suburban/wealthy homeowners are already paying a type of 'luxury' tax annually on their homes, because they get so shortchanged in school support from Trenton.

Posted on: 9/16 17:29
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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You seem unable to distinguish between tax and tax rate. What you also seem unable to comprehend is the majority of JC does not live in $1m townhomes, they live in apartments and pay far less tax per family than your Short Hills gentry even with a higher tax rate. For ex: a 10 family neighboring one of my properties pays $12k in tax. That's $1200 per family. You're simply not going to cover adequate schools with that.

This is why the Abbott system was created. Could JC schools be more efficient with their funds? I have no doubt. But there's no way this city could fully fund its schools without creating an economic catastrophe of every middle class resident leaving because of 8% property tax.

Posted on: 9/16 17:06
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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2017 Municipal portion of Millburn taxes was a shade over $5,000-the other over $15,000 went to the schools and a bit to Essex County. As I recall only a couple thousand goes to Essex County, so probably $12,000 goes to the schools. If Millburn got back 50% of school funding the annual total taxes would drop 30%.

Quite the deal for the Abbott district homeowners.

Posted on: 9/16 16:37
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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I'm not sure what the average tax in JC is-is it over 20K? Considering JC pays such a tiny faction of the largest component of any towns budget, let alone fund anyone else's, I'd bet it's not.

And Millburn/Short Hills has a billion dollar ratable in the Mall, not to mention other corporate HQ's (Dun and Bradstreet), the expensive Hilton-and even with those ratables the taxes are the highest in the state. (Wait, one town with 5 houses I think pays more, don't want to get called on that!)

Posted on: 9/16 16:23
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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Monroe wrote:
1) I'd love to see the numbers on how this would work.

2) Again, places like Short Hills pay much more because they're carrying the burden of paying for Abbott schools. 900 million/year for Newark, 400 million a year for JC, 230 million a year for East Orange, 24 million a year for Hoboken, 68 million a year for Asbury Park, 290 million a year for Camden. The suburbs pay higher taxes than they should because of this. Not to mention the big urban cities are often a cesspool of corruption.


You do it like the reval. Start with the number you need and work backward from there. The amount of tax taken from the people of NJ doesn't change, just it's distribution.

Again you claim Short Hills pays more, and that's simply not true. Perhaps they would like to pay less, but their actual TAX RATE is less than Jersey City. Fact. The idea that wealthy areas bear no responsibility to help educate poorer areas is typical selfish, social darwinist GOP.

Posted on: 9/16 16:04
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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1) I'd love to see the numbers on how this would work.

2) Again, places like Short Hills pay much more because they're carrying the burden of paying for Abbott schools. 900 million/year for Newark, 400 million a year for JC, 230 million a year for East Orange, 24 million a year for Hoboken, 68 million a year for Asbury Park, 290 million a year for Camden. The suburbs pay higher taxes than they should because of this. Not to mention the big urban cities are often a cesspool of corruption.

Posted on: 9/16 14:41
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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Monroe wrote:
Suburban residents are severely overtaxed in NJ because they support Abbott districts. In Millburn, the average real estate tax is over $20,000. Why? Because it gets only $2,252 per student from Trenton. Jersey City gets (wait for it) $18,466 per student. Each year, every year. Plus free preK.

So saying that wealthy suburban taxpayers should pay more-well, no. They already pay for their own schools and most of yours.


#1 I'm not saying use it to fund schools, I'm saying get rid of all regressive taxes like sales and replace it with progressive income and RE tax. And pool it all, no more local funding of schools. There are states that don't fund with local tax.

#2 What happened to "Short Hills pays a higher rate than JC"? You lie and move on just like your man Trump.

Posted on: 9/16 13:44
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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Suburban residents are severely overtaxed in NJ because they support Abbott districts. In Millburn, the average real estate tax is over $20,000. Why? Because it gets only $2,252 per student from Trenton. Jersey City gets (wait for it) $18,466 per student. Each year, every year. Plus free preK.

So saying that wealthy suburban taxpayers should pay more-well, no. They already pay for their own schools and most of yours.

Posted on: 9/16 7:55
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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Monroe wrote:

For the most part (minus the wealthy who own expensive homes in Abbott districts), which is why someone owning a brownstone on VVP pays a pittance compared to someone with a home of equal value in, say, Short Hills. 17% vs 89% funding of your local schools is just that-wealthy suburban homeowners pay a ton more taxes because the state gives them so little back for education.


Simply wrong as usual. Putting the delayed reval artifacts aside, in 2016 (the last published doc http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/lpt/taxrate.shtml) JC had an effective tax rate of 2.101% vs the Milburn rate of 1.854%. You can't base your accusation on the reval artifacts of a small portion of JC properties. Someone owning new construction or older properties outside of DT pay a HIGHER RATE than Short Hills.

Posted on: 9/15 23:10
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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brewster wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2 ... ee.html#incart_river_home

He was a one term Governor because he didn't have a tax increase he didn't adore, now he wants to privatize more of our highways, tax drivers by the amount of miles they drive (can you think of a more regressive tax?), put tolls on our interstates (which the Feds would then drop any funding of them), and in general just screw everyone in NJ who drives a car or buys anything delivered by truck?


Names and nasty rhetoric are fun, more fun than real issues. The reason for a mileage tax is that the gas tax is an even worse way, with those wealthy enough to buy a Prius taxed far less to use the roads than someone who can only afford a gas guzzler. Sure there's a whole argument to discourage gas guzzlers, but the disincentive is right there in the name.

If you really interested in progressive taxation, great! Lets get rid of everything but property and income tax and increase those on the wealthy to make up for it. I'd love to see a RE tax scaled based on percentile of home values. So if your $10m home is in the 95 percentile you pay a higher rate than a home in the 25th.


For the most part (minus the wealthy who own expensive homes in Abbott districts), which is why someone owning a brownstone on VVP pays a pittance compared to someone with a home of equal value in, say, Short Hills. 17% vs 89% funding of your local schools is just that-wealthy suburban homeowners pay a ton more taxes because the state gives them so little back for education.

Posted on: 9/15 18:59
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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Monroe wrote:
http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2 ... ee.html#incart_river_home

He was a one term Governor because he didn't have a tax increase he didn't adore, now he wants to privatize more of our highways, tax drivers by the amount of miles they drive (can you think of a more regressive tax?), put tolls on our interstates (which the Feds would then drop any funding of them), and in general just screw everyone in NJ who drives a car or buys anything delivered by truck?


Names and nasty rhetoric are fun, more fun than real issues. The reason for a mileage tax is that the gas tax is an even worse way, with those wealthy enough to buy a Prius taxed far less to use the roads than someone who can only afford a gas guzzler. Sure there's a whole argument to discourage gas guzzlers, but the disincentive is right there in the name.

If you really interested in progressive taxation, great! Lets get rid of everything but property and income tax and increase those on the wealthy to make up for it. I'd love to see a RE tax scaled based on percentile of home values. So if your $10m home is in the 95 percentile you pay a higher rate than a home in the 25th.

Posted on: 9/15 18:45
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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Yeah, he was certainly was a peach. The joke is that someone would put him on a commission for anything.

Posted on: 9/15 17:21
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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I didn't coin this one, nor the Torch for Torricelli.

'Flim Flam' was a common descriptive, as he said 'You can write this down, no new taxes' then ran through a 2.8 billion dollar tax increase (a US record) and further raided the pension funds (he was the first to do so) for 3 BILLION DOLLARS over two years. We're still paying for this, compounded over the 25 years since.

Posted on: 9/15 17:16
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Re: Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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Monroe should publish a guidebook to all his odd pejorative nicknames for politicians and celebraties.

Flim flam is a new one I am sure.
Then there was wizzy, whiny, fatty etc.


Robin.


Posted on: 9/15 16:20
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Flim-Flam Florio is back-and wants your wallet
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http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2 ... ee.html#incart_river_home

He was a one term Governor because he didn't have a tax increase he didn't adore, now he wants to privatize more of our highways, tax drivers by the amount of miles they drive (can you think of a more regressive tax?), put tolls on our interstates (which the Feds would then drop any funding of them), and in general just screw everyone in NJ who drives a car or buys anything delivered by truck?

Posted on: 9/14 14:39
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