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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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This thread is about reval not tax abatement. Thanks for pushing your agenda!

Posted on: 7/19 7:08
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Yvonne wrote:
I am in position to criticize tax abatment because develpers did not ask for them in the first place, it was offered to them by our mayors in exchange for repayment of tax dollars. Society Hill built on contaminated soil and not in Ward E, went up without any tax abatements. Another development Dixon Mills, no tax abatements. Colgate Redevelopment which is on the waterfront did not ask for a tax abatement neither did Newport. They both took the abatements after they were offered. Newport already had some building up and running when they took the tax abatements. Tax abatements hurt the people who pay the full taxes. When our school and county taxes go up, they do not feel that impact.


WTF are you rambling about? It has nothing to do with your lie about no revenue from abated properties.

Posted on: 7/18 21:18
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I am in position to criticize tax abatment because develpers did not ask for them in the first place, it was offered to them by our mayors in exchange for repayment of tax dollars. Society Hill built on contaminated soil and not in Ward E, went up without any tax abatements. Another development Dixon Mills, no tax abatements. Colgate Redevelopment which is on the waterfront did not ask for a tax abatement neither did Newport. They both took the abatements after they were offered. Newport already had some building up and running when they took the tax abatements. Tax abatements hurt the people who pay the full taxes. When our school and county taxes go up, they do not feel that impact.

Posted on: 7/18 15:09
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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yorkster wrote:
Funny, those of us apposing the methodology of property tax calculation are due to get a $36K bill and those in favor obviously are not. Just because a value of a home has risen doesn't mean that the individual that lives in that home has the means to pay $36K year over year.


Stop being self-servingly obtuse. There is nothing wrong with the methodology. it is the same one used ALL OVER the USA. If someone bought a home for 300K, and that home has now risen to 1.5 MM, and they can't afford the taxes now, they still have options that all those other that have been subsidizing them do not have. Namely, the person has 1.2 MM in (unrealized) profit into which the person can can tap to pay off the tax burden: borrow against the property, or sell, or find another solution.

Complaining about having to pay higher taxes on a property that has appreciated tremendously, and for which taxes have been under assessed for a decade or longer, is like complaining about being taxed on lottery winnings: it is petty and will not get you far.

Posted on: 7/18 13:59
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Yvonne wrote:
Port Liberte had a 15 year tax abatement, normally people go to tax court and appeal when their abatement expires. Nearly one third of JC properties are still tax abated, if no abatements existed, everyone would probably have a oneg third lower tax bill.


That could possibly be true if abated properties actually paid nothing, but they pay plenty, they all pay a higher effective rate than the 1% you did in Van Vorst Park. Many pay far more than the downtown properties that are going to see the hit, since their tax break is on a market price not a thirty-year-old assessment.

Posted on: 7/18 13:42
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Port Liberte had a 15 year tax abatement, normally people go to tax court and appeal when their abatement expires. Nearly one third of JC properties are still tax abated, if no abatements existed, everyone would probably have a one third lower tax bill.

Posted on: 7/18 12:54
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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No worries, I can afford the increase. It's my neighbors that I'm more concerned about. As is, we've already had a couple individuals leave after living here for 10-20 years. It's a shame because the appeal to me is that we have a good mix of new and old.

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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
I find it funny that you think others should carry your tax burden just because you failed to do your due diligence. When I bought my first home downtown the taxes were low, like most homes in DTJC, so we went to the assessor's office and asked about it. Yes I got hit with a huge tax bill in the following cycles, but it gave me time to plan ahead.

When the value of your home rises, but you can't afford the taxes, you need to move or find a way to afford your taxes. It's wrong, not to mention incredibly selfish, to think that you should get a break just because the value of your home went up.

Be an adult and deal with your problems. Stop trying to pass them off on anyone else but yourself. Then again, you're the one with opinions like taxes should be based on lot size rather than value, so I won't hold my breath you are going to do what you're supposed to do.

Posted on: 7/18 12:36
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Did anyone else see the Port Liberte condo in the NYTimes "What's selling now' column in the real estate section? I'll bet this owner can't wait for the reval. 1br, 1.5 bath, selling price $410,000-tax bill is $12,655!

Posted on: 7/18 12:34
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yorkster wrote:
Funny, those of us apposing the methodology of property tax calculation are due to get a $36K bill and those in favor obviously are not.


Why would you think that? I'm going to get a bill at least that. I just don't think I'm entitled to have others pay my share of the taxes, as has been the case.

The spending habits of JC really have nothing to do with the reval, it's about housekeeping not spending. But if it wakes people up to pay attention to where the money does go, that would be a great thing. I do not doubt for minute there's tremendous waste, and has been for generations.

Posted on: 7/18 12:06
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I find it funny that you think others should carry your tax burden just because you failed to do your due diligence. When I bought my first home downtown the taxes were low, like most homes in DTJC, so we went to the assessor's office and asked about it. Yes I got hit with a huge tax bill in the following cycles, but it gave me time to plan ahead.

When the value of your home rises, but you can't afford the taxes, you need to move or find a way to afford your taxes. It's wrong, not to mention incredibly selfish, to think that you should get a break just because the value of your home went up.

Be an adult and deal with your problems. Stop trying to pass them off on anyone else but yourself. Then again, you're the one with opinions like taxes should be based on lot size rather than value, so I won't hold my breath you are going to do what you're supposed to do.

Posted on: 7/18 11:52
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Funny, those of us apposing the methodology of property tax calculation are due to get a $36K bill and those in favor obviously are not. Just because a value of a home has risen doesn't mean that the individual that lives in that home has the means to pay $36K year over year.

Posted on: 7/18 11:04
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Thank you very much, will look into this further.

Posted on: 7/17 23:10
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mfmonaco wrote:
I have a question. Does being 65 yrs. old & retired help to keep the property taxes somewhat in check ?
Thank you

Senior Freeze (Property Tax Reimbursement) Program
General Eligibility Requirements
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/ptr/eligibility.shtml

You must make less than $70k in 2016.

Posted on: 7/17 19:59
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mfmonaco wrote:
I have a question. Does being 65 yrs. old & retired help to keep the property taxes somewhat in check ?
Thank you


In some states (and, I believe NJ is one of them) there is a homestead rebate for senior citizens. I am pretty sure this was covered by someone else in one of the reval threads. May be worth checking with Google.


Posted on: 7/17 19:55
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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I have a question. Does being 65 yrs. old & retired help to keep the property taxes somewhat in check ?
Thank you

Posted on: 7/17 19:33
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yorkster wrote:
100% agree. Property taxes should not me based on market value rather it should be based on a formula taking to account the lot size and square footage of home. That's black and white and no room for interpretation unlike actual value of a home. Then the only time a property tax would have to be re-calculated is if an addition is added. If you have 2 identical homes and one is renovated and the other is not, why should the homeowner that invested HIS/HER money into their home be penalized. Both homes regardless of value are still using the same level of city services. Likewise, why should someone with a lot size 16x100 pay more than a home in another part of the city that is on a lot 50x100. Makes no sense.

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135jc wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
While I can certainly understand (and, perhaps even sympathize) with the concept that the tax increase will be hard (even impossible) for some to absorb, it should also be pointed out that people have had time to plan accordingly (as Pebble points out) and those same people that will get a huge tax increase have been getting a free ride for a long time, some even 10+ years. It is hard to feel bad for someone who has been saving 10-15 K per year by being under assessed and did nothing to prepare for what should have been an obvious future increase in tax levy.

I have heard people gloating about their insanely low tax bills in DTJC, so yeah... this increase will hit them hard, but they are now conveniently forgetting about the many years of riding the gravy train.


No one should have to pay close to 2% of this market value for a condo or a 25x100 lot. It's absurd with all the business here and such a large tax base. Those are suburban rates. Hopefully the reval will put some pressure on the Administration to cut waste out of the budget.


I dont understand this logic, at all. Should all 4-wheel vehicles, with four seats and the same dimensions, pay the same amount of tax? All over the US, housing is taxed based on its value. It's the most "blind" way of taxing real estate.

Posted on: 7/17 18:56
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Imagine without this latest market uptick what tax % of value would be. 3-4%. That seems reasonable? How is it that Hoboken with not nearly the industry keeps taxes in line with JC? The fact that Jersey City doesn't fully fund their schools is even more proof that there is too much waste in the budget

Posted on: 7/17 18:08
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I'm not buying the idea that a 1/10th acre, 2,000 sq ft home in Greenville should be taxed the same as an identical size property on VVP. Besides all that, JC taxpayers benefit from suburban taxpayers supporting JC schools-to the tune of 2 billion dollars in the last four years. Imagine if JC homeowners had to pay their fair share what the taxes would be?

Posted on: 7/17 17:44
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Taxing on valuation is not perfect, but on balance it is the best way to do it. Most towns would fall to pieces if they employed your idea. Typically the wealthier homes carry a lot of the weight. If that changed those of lesser means would be blown out under your logic. JC is a very strange exception to this rule as it is currently a reverse Robin Hood situation.

I'm all for JC getting more taxes out of the commercial base, but not sure how much they really could squeeze relative to the total take.


Posted on: 7/17 17:04
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100% agree. Property taxes should not me based on market value rather it should be based on a formula taking to account the lot size and square footage of home. That's black and white and no room for interpretation unlike actual value of a home. Then the only time a property tax would have to be re-calculated is if an addition is added. If you have 2 identical homes and one is renovated and the other is not, why should the homeowner that invested HIS/HER money into their home be penalized. Both homes regardless of value are still using the same level of city services. Likewise, why should someone with a lot size 16x100 pay more than a home in another part of the city that is on a lot 50x100. Makes no sense.

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135jc wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
While I can certainly understand (and, perhaps even sympathize) with the concept that the tax increase will be hard (even impossible) for some to absorb, it should also be pointed out that people have had time to plan accordingly (as Pebble points out) and those same people that will get a huge tax increase have been getting a free ride for a long time, some even 10+ years. It is hard to feel bad for someone who has been saving 10-15 K per year by being under assessed and did nothing to prepare for what should have been an obvious future increase in tax levy.

I have heard people gloating about their insanely low tax bills in DTJC, so yeah... this increase will hit them hard, but they are now conveniently forgetting about the many years of riding the gravy train.


No one should have to pay close to 2% of this market value for a condo or a 25x100 lot. It's absurd with all the business here and such a large tax base. Those are suburban rates. Hopefully the reval will put some pressure on the Administration to cut waste out of the budget.

Posted on: 7/17 15:49
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Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Not for nothing, but the reval has been discussed over the course of *years* not days. The reval began in Fulop's inaugural year (2013). That means people have had 4 years to prepare and "phase in" the potential cost of their tax bill. They have been able to determine whether they can afford or not the increased cost.


Indeed not for nothing. Fulop stopped the reval, and if the City has made any announcements indicating the potential tax rate post-reval, they've been well hidden from me. Perhaps had they gone on the public record indicating the anticipated range of the expected rate, people might have had a better opportunity to prepare. But that didn't happen. And the City didn't conduct revals for over 25 years either.

The City bears a large measure of culpability for this mess, and should undertake reasonable steps to mitigate the inevitable negative impact as the tax changes are implemented.

As I think I've said here before – I'm not paying any more tax than I already do to the City and State. I've taken several steps to insulate myself from any future increases. Unless the City and State start showing some degree of responsibility and reasonableness, well they'll just have to do without my contributions altogether.


Fulop tried to stop it, but it landed in court. Everyone also knew that the last reval was so far in the past that it absolutely had to occur at some point in the near future. Delaying it any further continues to result in many people overpaying on their property.

The City certainly holds blame for this. After all, they didn't perform a reval for decades. You state this yourself. How can you claim to honestly be surprised by your taxes going up? The property values certainly went up. Were you supposed to benefit from equity and not up your tax rate?

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bodhipooh wrote:
While I can certainly understand (and, perhaps even sympathize) with the concept that the tax increase will be hard (even impossible) for some to absorb, it should also be pointed out that people have had time to plan accordingly (as Pebble points out) and those same people that will get a huge tax increase have been getting a free ride for a long time, some even 10+ years. It is hard to feel bad for someone who has been saving 10-15 K per year by being under assessed and did nothing to prepare for what should have been an obvious future increase in tax levy.

I have heard people gloating about their insanely low tax bills in DTJC, so yeah... this increase will hit them hard, but they are now conveniently forgetting about the many years of riding the gravy train.


EXACTLY!

You have a huge section of the city that has been overpaying. Where is the sympathy for them?

I can certainly understand those that get hit hard. It's unfortunate and it will certainly create issues for some. But those same people benefited from paying so little.

Posted on: 7/17 15:19
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[quote]
135jc wrote:
No one should have to pay close to 2% of this market value for a condo or a 25x100 lot. /quote]

No, those are normal rates for anywhere but NYC, which subsidizes it's small residential properties tremendously. But according to the news DeBlasio is now pandering to people who whine about their tremendously low taxes. So there's no pleasing some people.

BTW, if 2% is outrageous what do you say to the people who have been paying three and four percent to subsidize the downtowners?

Posted on: 7/17 15:17
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Other towns have deal with borrowing for terminal leave. They have put a cap for what retirees can take with them. JC has done neither. Over the years, JC has bonded hundreds of millions for employees who basically live outside of JC. There are bonds from McCann Administration to this administration that are doing the same thing- asking taxpayers to go into debt so employees can have a pay day.

Posted on: 7/17 15:13
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bodhipooh wrote:
While I can certainly understand (and, perhaps even sympathize) with the concept that the tax increase will be hard (even impossible) for some to absorb, it should also be pointed out that people have had time to plan accordingly (as Pebble points out) and those same people that will get a huge tax increase have been getting a free ride for a long time, some even 10+ years. It is hard to feel bad for someone who has been saving 10-15 K per year by being under assessed and did nothing to prepare for what should have been an obvious future increase in tax levy.

I have heard people gloating about their insanely low tax bills in DTJC, so yeah... this increase will hit them hard, but they are now conveniently forgetting about the many years of riding the gravy train.


No one should have to pay close to 2% of this market value for a condo or a 25x100 lot. It's absurd with all the business here and such a large tax base. Those are suburban rates. Hopefully the reval will put some pressure on the Administration to cut waste out of the budget.

Posted on: 7/17 14:44
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Bamb00zle wrote:

Issue some bonds – the City's credit ratings keep getting upgraded.

I believe it's illegal for the city to borrow for operating expenses. I've said here before what I think the city should do is set up a bonding system for people who choose to defer paying their taxes that would operate similar to a reverse mortgage. They would bundle the liens for each year into bonds and sell them for operating capital. I have no idea what interest rate would make this worth the effort and feasible for the city.

Posted on: 7/17 14:28
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While I can certainly understand (and, perhaps even sympathize) with the concept that the tax increase will be hard (even impossible) for some to absorb, it should also be pointed out that people have had time to plan accordingly (as Pebble points out) and those same people that will get a huge tax increase have been getting a free ride for a long time, some even 10+ years. It is hard to feel bad for someone who has been saving 10-15 K per year by being under assessed and did nothing to prepare for what should have been an obvious future increase in tax levy.

I have heard people gloating about their insanely low tax bills in DTJC, so yeah... this increase will hit them hard, but they are now conveniently forgetting about the many years of riding the gravy train.

Posted on: 7/17 14:27
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Pebble wrote:
Not for nothing, but the reval has been discussed over the course of *years* not days. The reval began in Fulop's inaugural year (2013). That means people have had 4 years to prepare and "phase in" the potential cost of their tax bill. They have been able to determine whether they can afford or not the increased cost.


Indeed not for nothing. Fulop stopped the reval, and if the City has made any announcements indicating the potential tax rate post-reval, they've been well hidden from me. Perhaps had they gone on the public record indicating the anticipated range of the expected rate, people might have had a better opportunity to prepare. But that didn't happen. And the City didn't conduct revals for over 25 years either.

The City bears a large measure of culpability for this mess, and should undertake reasonable steps to mitigate the inevitable negative impact as the tax changes are implemented.

As I think I've said here before – I'm not paying any more tax than I already do to the City and State. I've taken several steps to insulate myself from any future increases. Unless the City and State start showing some degree of responsibility and reasonableness, well they'll just have to do without my contributions altogether.

Posted on: 7/17 13:59
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Not for nothing, but the reval has been discussed over the course of *years* not days. The reval began in Fulop's inaugural year (2013). That means people have had 4 years to prepare and "phase in" the potential cost of their tax bill. They have been able to determine whether they can afford or not the increased cost.

Posted on: 7/17 13:24
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brewster wrote:

Cutting the overpaying but not raising the underpaying would leave a tax deficit, and therefore a budget deficit. That won't fly.


Issue some bonds – the City's credit ratings keep getting upgraded.

The disruptive effects of huge tax increases have to be worse than some medium-term City borrowing. Leaving it to the individual homeowner to borrow is problematic as many won't have the income stream to support the loan, be old enough for a reverse mortgage, or have the necessary documents for the very onerous loan application process....

It can't be impossible for the City to help, they just need to be willing.

Posted on: 7/17 13:24
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Bamb00zle wrote:
Brewster, surely it's possible to allow tax reductions immediately – so there's no delay, and no need to explain anything – for those in that category. And, at the same time, for those with large increases, say over $5,000 per year, allow a “phase-in” period of several years, for example, 5 years.


Cutting the overpaying but not raising the underpaying would leave a tax deficit, and therefore a budget deficit. That won't fly.

Posted on: 7/17 12:52
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