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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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mfmonaco wrote:
I have a question. Does being 65 yrs. old & retired help to keep the property taxes somewhat in check ?
Thank you

Senior Freeze (Property Tax Reimbursement) Program
General Eligibility Requirements
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/ptr/eligibility.shtml

You must make less than $70k in 2016.

Posted on: 7/17 19:59
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mfmonaco wrote:
I have a question. Does being 65 yrs. old & retired help to keep the property taxes somewhat in check ?
Thank you


In some states (and, I believe NJ is one of them) there is a homestead rebate for senior citizens. I am pretty sure this was covered by someone else in one of the reval threads. May be worth checking with Google.


Posted on: 7/17 19:55
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I have a question. Does being 65 yrs. old & retired help to keep the property taxes somewhat in check ?
Thank you

Posted on: 7/17 19:33
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yorkster wrote:
100% agree. Property taxes should not me based on market value rather it should be based on a formula taking to account the lot size and square footage of home. That's black and white and no room for interpretation unlike actual value of a home. Then the only time a property tax would have to be re-calculated is if an addition is added. If you have 2 identical homes and one is renovated and the other is not, why should the homeowner that invested HIS/HER money into their home be penalized. Both homes regardless of value are still using the same level of city services. Likewise, why should someone with a lot size 16x100 pay more than a home in another part of the city that is on a lot 50x100. Makes no sense.

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135jc wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
While I can certainly understand (and, perhaps even sympathize) with the concept that the tax increase will be hard (even impossible) for some to absorb, it should also be pointed out that people have had time to plan accordingly (as Pebble points out) and those same people that will get a huge tax increase have been getting a free ride for a long time, some even 10+ years. It is hard to feel bad for someone who has been saving 10-15 K per year by being under assessed and did nothing to prepare for what should have been an obvious future increase in tax levy.

I have heard people gloating about their insanely low tax bills in DTJC, so yeah... this increase will hit them hard, but they are now conveniently forgetting about the many years of riding the gravy train.


No one should have to pay close to 2% of this market value for a condo or a 25x100 lot. It's absurd with all the business here and such a large tax base. Those are suburban rates. Hopefully the reval will put some pressure on the Administration to cut waste out of the budget.


I dont understand this logic, at all. Should all 4-wheel vehicles, with four seats and the same dimensions, pay the same amount of tax? All over the US, housing is taxed based on its value. It's the most "blind" way of taxing real estate.

Posted on: 7/17 18:56
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Imagine without this latest market uptick what tax % of value would be. 3-4%. That seems reasonable? How is it that Hoboken with not nearly the industry keeps taxes in line with JC? The fact that Jersey City doesn't fully fund their schools is even more proof that there is too much waste in the budget

Posted on: 7/17 18:08
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I'm not buying the idea that a 1/10th acre, 2,000 sq ft home in Greenville should be taxed the same as an identical size property on VVP. Besides all that, JC taxpayers benefit from suburban taxpayers supporting JC schools-to the tune of 2 billion dollars in the last four years. Imagine if JC homeowners had to pay their fair share what the taxes would be?

Posted on: 7/17 17:44
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Taxing on valuation is not perfect, but on balance it is the best way to do it. Most towns would fall to pieces if they employed your idea. Typically the wealthier homes carry a lot of the weight. If that changed those of lesser means would be blown out under your logic. JC is a very strange exception to this rule as it is currently a reverse Robin Hood situation.

I'm all for JC getting more taxes out of the commercial base, but not sure how much they really could squeeze relative to the total take.


Posted on: 7/17 17:04
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100% agree. Property taxes should not me based on market value rather it should be based on a formula taking to account the lot size and square footage of home. That's black and white and no room for interpretation unlike actual value of a home. Then the only time a property tax would have to be re-calculated is if an addition is added. If you have 2 identical homes and one is renovated and the other is not, why should the homeowner that invested HIS/HER money into their home be penalized. Both homes regardless of value are still using the same level of city services. Likewise, why should someone with a lot size 16x100 pay more than a home in another part of the city that is on a lot 50x100. Makes no sense.

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135jc wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
While I can certainly understand (and, perhaps even sympathize) with the concept that the tax increase will be hard (even impossible) for some to absorb, it should also be pointed out that people have had time to plan accordingly (as Pebble points out) and those same people that will get a huge tax increase have been getting a free ride for a long time, some even 10+ years. It is hard to feel bad for someone who has been saving 10-15 K per year by being under assessed and did nothing to prepare for what should have been an obvious future increase in tax levy.

I have heard people gloating about their insanely low tax bills in DTJC, so yeah... this increase will hit them hard, but they are now conveniently forgetting about the many years of riding the gravy train.


No one should have to pay close to 2% of this market value for a condo or a 25x100 lot. It's absurd with all the business here and such a large tax base. Those are suburban rates. Hopefully the reval will put some pressure on the Administration to cut waste out of the budget.

Posted on: 7/17 15:49
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Bamb00zle wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
Not for nothing, but the reval has been discussed over the course of *years* not days. The reval began in Fulop's inaugural year (2013). That means people have had 4 years to prepare and "phase in" the potential cost of their tax bill. They have been able to determine whether they can afford or not the increased cost.


Indeed not for nothing. Fulop stopped the reval, and if the City has made any announcements indicating the potential tax rate post-reval, they've been well hidden from me. Perhaps had they gone on the public record indicating the anticipated range of the expected rate, people might have had a better opportunity to prepare. But that didn't happen. And the City didn't conduct revals for over 25 years either.

The City bears a large measure of culpability for this mess, and should undertake reasonable steps to mitigate the inevitable negative impact as the tax changes are implemented.

As I think I've said here before – I'm not paying any more tax than I already do to the City and State. I've taken several steps to insulate myself from any future increases. Unless the City and State start showing some degree of responsibility and reasonableness, well they'll just have to do without my contributions altogether.


Fulop tried to stop it, but it landed in court. Everyone also knew that the last reval was so far in the past that it absolutely had to occur at some point in the near future. Delaying it any further continues to result in many people overpaying on their property.

The City certainly holds blame for this. After all, they didn't perform a reval for decades. You state this yourself. How can you claim to honestly be surprised by your taxes going up? The property values certainly went up. Were you supposed to benefit from equity and not up your tax rate?

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bodhipooh wrote:
While I can certainly understand (and, perhaps even sympathize) with the concept that the tax increase will be hard (even impossible) for some to absorb, it should also be pointed out that people have had time to plan accordingly (as Pebble points out) and those same people that will get a huge tax increase have been getting a free ride for a long time, some even 10+ years. It is hard to feel bad for someone who has been saving 10-15 K per year by being under assessed and did nothing to prepare for what should have been an obvious future increase in tax levy.

I have heard people gloating about their insanely low tax bills in DTJC, so yeah... this increase will hit them hard, but they are now conveniently forgetting about the many years of riding the gravy train.


EXACTLY!

You have a huge section of the city that has been overpaying. Where is the sympathy for them?

I can certainly understand those that get hit hard. It's unfortunate and it will certainly create issues for some. But those same people benefited from paying so little.

Posted on: 7/17 15:19
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135jc wrote:
No one should have to pay close to 2% of this market value for a condo or a 25x100 lot. /quote]

No, those are normal rates for anywhere but NYC, which subsidizes it's small residential properties tremendously. But according to the news DeBlasio is now pandering to people who whine about their tremendously low taxes. So there's no pleasing some people.

BTW, if 2% is outrageous what do you say to the people who have been paying three and four percent to subsidize the downtowners?

Posted on: 7/17 15:17
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Other towns have deal with borrowing for terminal leave. They have put a cap for what retirees can take with them. JC has done neither. Over the years, JC has bonded hundreds of millions for employees who basically live outside of JC. There are bonds from McCann Administration to this administration that are doing the same thing- asking taxpayers to go into debt so employees can have a pay day.

Posted on: 7/17 15:13
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bodhipooh wrote:
While I can certainly understand (and, perhaps even sympathize) with the concept that the tax increase will be hard (even impossible) for some to absorb, it should also be pointed out that people have had time to plan accordingly (as Pebble points out) and those same people that will get a huge tax increase have been getting a free ride for a long time, some even 10+ years. It is hard to feel bad for someone who has been saving 10-15 K per year by being under assessed and did nothing to prepare for what should have been an obvious future increase in tax levy.

I have heard people gloating about their insanely low tax bills in DTJC, so yeah... this increase will hit them hard, but they are now conveniently forgetting about the many years of riding the gravy train.


No one should have to pay close to 2% of this market value for a condo or a 25x100 lot. It's absurd with all the business here and such a large tax base. Those are suburban rates. Hopefully the reval will put some pressure on the Administration to cut waste out of the budget.

Posted on: 7/17 14:44
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Bamb00zle wrote:

Issue some bonds – the City's credit ratings keep getting upgraded.

I believe it's illegal for the city to borrow for operating expenses. I've said here before what I think the city should do is set up a bonding system for people who choose to defer paying their taxes that would operate similar to a reverse mortgage. They would bundle the liens for each year into bonds and sell them for operating capital. I have no idea what interest rate would make this worth the effort and feasible for the city.

Posted on: 7/17 14:28
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While I can certainly understand (and, perhaps even sympathize) with the concept that the tax increase will be hard (even impossible) for some to absorb, it should also be pointed out that people have had time to plan accordingly (as Pebble points out) and those same people that will get a huge tax increase have been getting a free ride for a long time, some even 10+ years. It is hard to feel bad for someone who has been saving 10-15 K per year by being under assessed and did nothing to prepare for what should have been an obvious future increase in tax levy.

I have heard people gloating about their insanely low tax bills in DTJC, so yeah... this increase will hit them hard, but they are now conveniently forgetting about the many years of riding the gravy train.

Posted on: 7/17 14:27
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Pebble wrote:
Not for nothing, but the reval has been discussed over the course of *years* not days. The reval began in Fulop's inaugural year (2013). That means people have had 4 years to prepare and "phase in" the potential cost of their tax bill. They have been able to determine whether they can afford or not the increased cost.


Indeed not for nothing. Fulop stopped the reval, and if the City has made any announcements indicating the potential tax rate post-reval, they've been well hidden from me. Perhaps had they gone on the public record indicating the anticipated range of the expected rate, people might have had a better opportunity to prepare. But that didn't happen. And the City didn't conduct revals for over 25 years either.

The City bears a large measure of culpability for this mess, and should undertake reasonable steps to mitigate the inevitable negative impact as the tax changes are implemented.

As I think I've said here before – I'm not paying any more tax than I already do to the City and State. I've taken several steps to insulate myself from any future increases. Unless the City and State start showing some degree of responsibility and reasonableness, well they'll just have to do without my contributions altogether.

Posted on: 7/17 13:59
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Not for nothing, but the reval has been discussed over the course of *years* not days. The reval began in Fulop's inaugural year (2013). That means people have had 4 years to prepare and "phase in" the potential cost of their tax bill. They have been able to determine whether they can afford or not the increased cost.

Posted on: 7/17 13:24
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brewster wrote:

Cutting the overpaying but not raising the underpaying would leave a tax deficit, and therefore a budget deficit. That won't fly.


Issue some bonds – the City's credit ratings keep getting upgraded.

The disruptive effects of huge tax increases have to be worse than some medium-term City borrowing. Leaving it to the individual homeowner to borrow is problematic as many won't have the income stream to support the loan, be old enough for a reverse mortgage, or have the necessary documents for the very onerous loan application process....

It can't be impossible for the City to help, they just need to be willing.

Posted on: 7/17 13:24
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Bamb00zle wrote:
Brewster, surely it's possible to allow tax reductions immediately – so there's no delay, and no need to explain anything – for those in that category. And, at the same time, for those with large increases, say over $5,000 per year, allow a “phase-in” period of several years, for example, 5 years.


Cutting the overpaying but not raising the underpaying would leave a tax deficit, and therefore a budget deficit. That won't fly.

Posted on: 7/17 12:52
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Brewster, surely it's possible to allow tax reductions immediately – so there's no delay, and no need to explain anything – for those in that category. And, at the same time, for those with large increases, say over $5,000 per year, allow a “phase-in” period of several years, for example, 5 years. One requirement being that over the course of the phase-in period the entire amount of taxes owed would be fully paid. At the end of the “phase-in” the yearly taxes would revert to the “correct” amount. If the property is sold or otherwise transferred in the meantime, the entire balance owed as of the sale/transfer date would become due and payable immediately.

It has taken successive City Administrations 25 years of irresponsibility to arrive at the mess the City is in today regarding this reval. It's not any way reasonable to try to “fix” it all over the course of just 6 months. Yes, for those who are due to receive a tax cut, give it immediately. But the economic harm of a huge tax increase delivered over 6 months will severely and adversely impact many people.

The negligence and intransigence of City Government, resulting in this looming mess, is one of the reasons I sold my property and moved to a rental. When it becomes apparent to people what is going to happen with their taxes I anticipate a distinct cooling in the property market. I might buy back in at that point, although the fiscal mess at the State level is also a major negative for me.

Posted on: 7/17 12:46
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JCBears wrote:
I'm definitely surprised the phase in option isn't on the table.


Because you'd have to explain to the people overpaying, who outnumber the underpaying, why you're going to to delay their tax reduction.

Posted on: 7/17 11:52
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Thank you Yorkster. I'm definitely surprised the phase in option isn't on the table. That's going to be a crushing blow to a lot of people.

Posted on: 7/17 11:46
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Yes, based on an expected 1.8%, your taxes will be $28,800. Taxes will not be phased in. That amount will be due in 2018, however because City budget tends to not be set until end of 2Q, what is done is that for first half of 2018, you pay 50% of your 2017 taxes (e.g., assume 50% of $12k = $6k). Then in 3Q/4Q the balance is due. Which in your case would be $22,800. Hope that makes sense. I'm in similar situation so I expect a hefty bill 2nd half of 2018.

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JCBears wrote:
I fall into the "I bought downtown with no intentions of leaving" column and I'm hoping someone can help me clarify all the info I've been seeing re: outcome of the reval.

Regardless of how much I paid when I bought, my taxes will now be based on the current market value of my home? So if our neighbors sold for $1.6 million recently am I to expect my tax bill to jump to the $28-$30k range as a result?

Do we expect this to be phased in or done in one swift move? A friend was told this week by the tax office not to expect any changes in tax bills until 3rd quarter 2018 and I find that hard to believe. Thought it would be in place by end of year 2017?


Posted on: 7/16 21:02
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Anyone has the ward inspection schedule? Would like to get an estimate when I will be inspected.

Posted on: 7/16 17:53
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I fall into the "I bought downtown with no intentions of leaving" column and I'm hoping someone can help me clarify all the info I've been seeing re: outcome of the reval.

Regardless of how much I paid when I bought, my taxes will now be based on the current market value of my home? So if our neighbors sold for $1.6 million recently am I to expect my tax bill to jump to the $28-$30k range as a result?

Do we expect this to be phased in or done in one swift move? A friend was told this week by the tax office not to expect any changes in tax bills until 3rd quarter 2018 and I find that hard to believe. Thought it would be in place by end of year 2017?


Posted on: 7/16 14:37
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135jc wrote:
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jc201jc wrote:
i have a question about how property taxes are handled now (pre reval). If i buy a condo that had been paying $5k/yr in taxes, will my property tax rate go up based on my purchase price?

Then when the reval is done, could it potentially go up again?


Unless something has changed you will not pay higher taxes then the previous owner. There are some waterfront high-rises however where taxes are reset upon the purchase price. This formula would have saved a lot of heartache for Jersey city but it is not used city wide.


While this is true ordinarily, the question was in context of the reval. If you buy before the reval, the assessment will be reset like all non-abated properties. Simply calculate what % of the sale price is the taxes and if it's less than 1.8% expect them to go up to that.

Much depends on how long ago the condo was built or condoed. A 100 year old building condoed a few years ago will not see taxes rise since the assessments were set at that time and are not wildly innacurate like the older properties DT.


There are certain waterfront properties that reset upon purchase.

Posted on: 6/30 14:19
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135jc wrote:
Quote:

jc201jc wrote:
i have a question about how property taxes are handled now (pre reval). If i buy a condo that had been paying $5k/yr in taxes, will my property tax rate go up based on my purchase price?

Then when the reval is done, could it potentially go up again?


Unless something has changed you will not pay higher taxes then the previous owner. There are some waterfront high-rises however where taxes are reset upon the purchase price. This formula would have saved a lot of heartache for Jersey city but it is not used city wide.


While this is true ordinarily, the question was in context of the reval. If you buy before the reval, the assessment will be reset like all non-abated properties. Simply calculate what % of the sale price is the taxes and if it's less than 1.8% expect them to go up to that.

Much depends on how long ago the condo was built or condoed. A 100 year old building condoed a few years ago will not see taxes rise since the assessments were set at that time and are not wildly innacurate like the older properties DT.

Posted on: 6/30 12:33
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Hoboken did a reval just a few years ago. The market did not soften. Don't count on it.

Posted on: 6/30 11:03
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jc201jc wrote:
^^ ok thanks that helps. I wonder if the reval will serve to stabilize prices in DTJC (or even lower them). Then again, people seem to be getting wrapped up in a real estate bubble again so I wouldn't be surprised if condo prices keep increasing, even if the tax bills will go up by a few thousand $$/yr


Well,
You run the risk of the market softening in my opinion due to high revals, but it will probably be short lived. This area rebounded well after the 2007 crash. There are a lot of cash buyers waiting for a small dip.

Posted on: 6/30 10:57
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^^ ok thanks that helps. I wonder if the reval will serve to stabilize prices in DTJC (or even lower them). Then again, people seem to be getting wrapped up in a real estate bubble again so I wouldn't be surprised if condo prices keep increasing, even if the tax bills will go up by a few thousand $$/yr

Posted on: 6/30 10:53
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jc201jc wrote:
i have a question about how property taxes are handled now (pre reval). If i buy a condo that had been paying $5k/yr in taxes, will my property tax rate go up based on my purchase price?

Then when the reval is done, could it potentially go up again?


Unless something has changed you will not pay higher taxes then the previous owner. There are some waterfront high-rises however where taxes are reset upon the purchase price. This formula would have saved a lot of heartache for Jersey city but it is not used city wide.

Posted on: 6/30 10:29
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