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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
153 billion in sales, I'm sure their lawyers made one phone call to Fulop and said 'er, no, we're opening where we want to'.


I suspect you are NOT wrong. It was only a matter of time before a company with deep pockets decided to face down the city council and make it clear to them that their actions were completely nuts. I totally get wanting to support "mom and pop" shops and "shopping local" but forcing that by artificially manipulating the market is not the way to go about it. If the city is so serious about supporting local mom and pop, they can find ways to enact incentives that can help level the playing field.


Not to mention that 70 Hudson Street, or just about any waterfront retail location, is a place the mom and pop stores could afford anyway, nor is it a place where you go to shop at mom and pop stores.

Posted on: 5/19 23:02
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Monroe wrote:
153 billion in sales, I'm sure their lawyers made one phone call to Fulop and said 'er, no, we're opening where we want to'.


I suspect you are NOT wrong. It was only a matter of time before a company with deep pockets decided to face down the city council and make it clear to them that their actions were completely nuts. I totally get wanting to support "mom and pop" shops and "shopping local" but forcing that by artificially manipulating the market is not the way to go about it. If the city is so serious about supporting local mom and pop, they can find ways to enact incentives that can help level the playing field.

Posted on: 5/19 17:57
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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153 billion in sales, I'm sure their lawyers made one phone call to Fulop and said 'er, no, we're opening where we want to'.

Posted on: 5/19 16:46
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Great news. Never should have been a law to begin with.

Posted on: 5/19 16:18
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Could it be that the misguided "feelz before realz" mentality that has driven so many actions over the past four years is finally getting curbed?

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JerseyCityNj wrote:
Jersey City to repeal law restricting chain stores Downtown

BY TERRENCE T. MCDONALD
tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

Jersey City's law restricting chain stores is headed for the chopping block, with the City Council scheduled for an initial vote next week to repeal the two-year old ordinance.

The move comes three weeks after the city said it would block a CVS from opening at 70 Hudson St., a Waterfront office building where the pharmacy giant had signed a lease for a 20,000-square-foot location.

The city enacted the ban in May 2015, when Mayor Steve Fulop was still eyeing a run for governor and looking for support in towns like Montclair where liberal voters say they favor mom-and-pop shops over chain stores.

At the time Fulop pushed the council to adopt the law, he said it was an effort to help Downtown retain some of its character. In a Huffington Post column from June 2015, Fulop wrote that "the commitment small business owners bring to a city helps make their communities more livable."

But the ban "may not hold up under strict scrutiny of federal laws," according to the ordinance set for approval next week that would start the repeal process.

John Holub, president of the New Jersey Retail Merchant Association, said the city's reversal is good news for businesses. The group opposes chain store restrictions, saying government officials should not try to control market forces in this way.

"It's encouraging to see that someone has clearly come to their senses," Holub said. "It was a misguided policy from the get-go."

Jersey City's law restricts chain stores from taking up more than 30 percent of ground-floor commercial space in any one lot in several noncontiguous areas Downtown.

Administration critics chuckled when it argued that the new Columbus Drive Krispy Kreme, the doughnut chain that opened this year inside the zone where chains are restricted, isn't really a chain store because it is a unique "factory" location that provides doughnuts to other retail stores.

The city has declined to say how many certificates of occupancy it has threatened to deny over the chain store ban.

Posted on: 5/19 15:03
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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That's good news. While I believe we should have a balance of businesses downtown and should do our best to make it easier on smaller operations to open up and stay competitive, this mish mash of a law was too heavy handed and not the way to go. It's important to keep a neighborhood with as local a character as possible though and not become like Manhattan or too many areas in Brooklyn, just chains and big boxes. There simply wasn't anything close to a problem warranting the kind of concern that necessitated having any kind of law limiting chains. Especially when this law was so haphazardly drawn, so random and unfair in application. At the time it was a poorly thought out solution in search of a problem that hadn't formed yet and thankfully, though it's taken more than awhile more reasonable heads have prevailed in its rescinding.

Posted on: 5/19 14:56
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Jersey City to repeal law restricting chain stores Downtown

BY TERRENCE T. MCDONALD
tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

Jersey City's law restricting chain stores is headed for the chopping block, with the City Council scheduled for an initial vote next week to repeal the two-year old ordinance.

The move comes three weeks after the city said it would block a CVS from opening at 70 Hudson St., a Waterfront office building where the pharmacy giant had signed a lease for a 20,000-square-foot location.

The city enacted the ban in May 2015, when Mayor Steve Fulop was still eyeing a run for governor and looking for support in towns like Montclair where liberal voters say they favor mom-and-pop shops over chain stores.

At the time Fulop pushed the council to adopt the law, he said it was an effort to help Downtown retain some of its character. In a Huffington Post column from June 2015, Fulop wrote that "the commitment small business owners bring to a city helps make their communities more livable."

But the ban "may not hold up under strict scrutiny of federal laws," according to the ordinance set for approval next week that would start the repeal process.

John Holub, president of the New Jersey Retail Merchant Association, said the city's reversal is good news for businesses. The group opposes chain store restrictions, saying government officials should not try to control market forces in this way.

"It's encouraging to see that someone has clearly come to their senses," Holub said. "It was a misguided policy from the get-go."

Jersey City's law restricts chain stores from taking up more than 30 percent of ground-floor commercial space in any one lot in several noncontiguous areas Downtown.

Administration critics chuckled when it argued that the new Columbus Drive Krispy Kreme, the doughnut chain that opened this year inside the zone where chains are restricted, isn't really a chain store because it is a unique "factory" location that provides doughnuts to other retail stores.

The city has declined to say how many certificates of occupancy it has threatened to deny over the chain store ban.

Posted on: 5/19 14:13
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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TwoBootsJC wrote:
Dear Friends.

Once again, untruths are running wild on JCList. So, for anyone interested in facts, here they are.

1. The food trucks at the farmers' market were illegal under Jersey City law. (Do the research.)


Sure. It's a poor law, though. Clearly, downtown JC is populated enough to support a restaurant row and a food truck market (like any thriving city).

Quote:

2. Over twenty Downtown restaurants signed a petition (not just Two Boots) demanding that the HDSID discontinue the "food court" it had created, illegally, to fill its own budget hole.


Please elaborate on how the food truck market filled the HDSID's budget hole.

Quote:

3. The HDSID was violating its duty to it own members -- us -- by running a competing business.


Alright, this is a classic case of the tail wagging the dog. I'd say the HDSID's purpose is misguided if it's favoring certain local businesses over others. Especially when there's a market for both.

Quote:

4. The only reason the food truck "food court" could exist was the massive subsidy that it received in the form of below market rent using public space -- a subsidy that no brick and mortar restaurant receives.


Please elaborate.

Quote:

5. Two Boots has NEVER complained about any competitor that has to play by the same rules we do. We have New Jersey's largest pizzeria (and restaurant) right next to us. We welcomed them and welcome any other competitor, chain or otherwise, so long as they don't receive government support that we don't.


Restaurants and food trucks will never be able to play by the same rules as they have inherently different characteristics.

This is like a fish saying that a bird shouldn't eat it because it's not fair the fish doesn't have wings.

Restaurants and food trucks each have their own unique advantages and disadvantages. If someone wants to sit down and relax for a meal (especially with more than one person), no food truck in the world will pull them away from a quality restaurant.

Alternatively, if you're in a rush or just want to eat something casually on the go, you don't have time for a restaurant. You're going for a food truck instead.

These business models are inherently different, they serve different purposes and they both can (and have) coexist in downtown JC.

Quote:

6. We fully support food trucks parking in legal locations.


Sure, because it currently reduces your competition.

Quote:

7. The farmers market is flourishing.


But the public has less food truck options due to your anti-competitive lobbying and that's not a good thing for downtown JC.

Quote:

8. There are more eating options than ever in the Downtown.


That's my point, food trucks did not need to be banned because there's enough demand due to downtown JC's population growth.

Quote:

Finally, probably none of you know this, but we came close to going out of business. During our first three years, we lost money. Now, thankfully, we are doing well, thanks to thousands of loyal customers and Jersey City's growth. But the point remains, that opening a restaurant is a very risky business. Sixty percent of all restaurants close their doors within three years. This is why people who invest hundreds of thousands, and sometimes millions, of dollars in restaurants become emotional about unfair and illegal competition.

Lots of love,
Aaron



I can't speak about your situation as I am not involved in your business. All I can say is that downtown JC can clearly support both restaurant row and food trucks.




The brick and mortar restaurants operate under vastly different rules than a food truck and outside of liquor, slimmer profit margins. The city owes it to those restaurants /shops to accommodate them.

How many restaurants have moved into those derelict spaces and regenerated Newark Ave. Also how many have failed? The presence of food trucks add nothing to the community. If the Newark Ave. experiment fails leaving boarded up storefronts, they just unplug their generator and move to the next block.

And what about the servers dependent on traffic flow for tips? Despite the tips jars on the food trucks, every sandwich purchased from a food truck means less traffic on Newark Ave. and the other neighboring businesses on Columbus and Grove.

Food trucks are essentially a cash only business with much of their food prep being done probably at someone's uninspected house. I have no issue with them, but I am more sympathetic to the small business restaurant owners.


Posted on: 5/14 12:34
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Quote:

TwoBootsJC wrote:
Dear Friends.

Once again, untruths are running wild on JCList. So, for anyone interested in facts, here they are.

1. The food trucks at the farmers' market were illegal under Jersey City law. (Do the research.)


Sure. It's a poor law, though. Clearly, downtown JC is populated enough to support a restaurant row and a food truck market (like any thriving city).

Quote:

2. Over twenty Downtown restaurants signed a petition (not just Two Boots) demanding that the HDSID discontinue the "food court" it had created, illegally, to fill its own budget hole.


Please elaborate on how the food truck market filled the HDSID's budget hole.

Quote:

3. The HDSID was violating its duty to it own members -- us -- by running a competing business.


Alright, this is a classic case of the tail wagging the dog. I'd say the HDSID's purpose is misguided if it's favoring certain local businesses over others. Especially when there's a market for both.

Quote:

4. The only reason the food truck "food court" could exist was the massive subsidy that it received in the form of below market rent using public space -- a subsidy that no brick and mortar restaurant receives.


Please elaborate.

Quote:

5. Two Boots has NEVER complained about any competitor that has to play by the same rules we do. We have New Jersey's largest pizzeria (and restaurant) right next to us. We welcomed them and welcome any other competitor, chain or otherwise, so long as they don't receive government support that we don't.


Restaurants and food trucks will never be able to play by the same rules as they have inherently different characteristics.

This is like a fish saying that a bird shouldn't eat it because it's not fair the fish doesn't have wings.

Restaurants and food trucks each have their own unique advantages and disadvantages. If someone wants to sit down and relax for a meal (especially with more than one person), no food truck in the world will pull them away from a quality restaurant.

Alternatively, if you're in a rush or just want to eat something casually on the go, you don't have time for a restaurant. You're going for a food truck instead.

These business models are inherently different, they serve different purposes and they both can (and have) coexist in downtown JC.

Quote:

6. We fully support food trucks parking in legal locations.


Sure, because it currently reduces your competition.

Quote:

7. The farmers market is flourishing.


But the public has less food truck options due to your anti-competitive lobbying and that's not a good thing for downtown JC.

Quote:

8. There are more eating options than ever in the Downtown.


That's my point, food trucks did not need to be banned because there's enough demand due to downtown JC's population growth.

Quote:

Finally, probably none of you know this, but we came close to going out of business. During our first three years, we lost money. Now, thankfully, we are doing well, thanks to thousands of loyal customers and Jersey City's growth. But the point remains, that opening a restaurant is a very risky business. Sixty percent of all restaurants close their doors within three years. This is why people who invest hundreds of thousands, and sometimes millions, of dollars in restaurants become emotional about unfair and illegal competition.

Lots of love,
Aaron



I can't speak about your situation as I am not involved in your business. All I can say is that downtown JC can clearly support both restaurant row and food trucks.

Posted on: 5/14 11:15
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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I'm sorry Aaron. I thought businesses were bottomless pits of money that governments can just dip into as they feel.

Well said Aaron.

Posted on: 5/13 23:35
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Ditto.

Posted on: 5/12 18:27
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Well said.

Posted on: 5/12 14:18
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Dear Friends.

Once again, untruths are running wild on JCList. So, for anyone interested in facts, here they are.

1. The food trucks at the farmers' market were illegal under Jersey City law. (Do the research.)

2. Over twenty Downtown restaurants signed a petition (not just Two Boots) demanding that the HDSID discontinue the "food court" it had created, illegally, to fill its own budget hole.

3. The HDSID was violating its duty to it own members -- us -- by running a competing business.

4. The only reason the food truck "food court" could exist was the massive subsidy that it received in the form of below market rent using public space -- a subsidy that no brick and mortar restaurant receives.

5. Two Boots has NEVER complained about any competitor that has to play by the same rules we do. We have New Jersey's largest pizzeria (and restaurant) right next to us. We welcomed them and welcome any other competitor, chain or otherwise, so long as they don't receive government support that we don't.

6. We fully support food trucks parking in legal locations.

7. The farmers market is flourishing.

8. There are more eating options than ever in the Downtown.

Finally, probably none of you know this, but we came close to going out of business. During our first three years, we lost money. Now, thankfully, we are doing well, thanks to thousands of loyal customers and Jersey City's growth. But the point remains, that opening a restaurant is a very risky business. Sixty percent of all restaurants close their doors within three years. This is why people who invest hundreds of thousands, and sometimes millions, of dollars in restaurants become emotional about unfair and illegal competition.

Lots of love,
Aaron


Posted on: 5/9 11:29
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Chain stores with their mass and scale are able to procure everything at a lower cost. In additions they have very streamlined logistics and operations. They are able to and do pass on some of this savings to their customers. I am sure if this CVS was open, it would probably have lower prices than Downtown Pharmacy.

Quote:

caj11 wrote:
Quote:

Haggis wrote:
We like the ban on chain stores. It's not like they are so far away if one really wants to go to one...


Depends on what you're looking to buy. If the area where CVS was looking to locate was already saturated with drugstores, I guess it doesn't matter. Still, I don't like local government or anyone else deciding what kind of shopping is best for me. The capitalist system is far from perfect, but this is one area where government intervention is unnecessary and oversteps what consumers prefer. If you hate the chain stores so much, keep supporting the local stores as much as possible and don't go to the chains. But don't deny me where I want to shop.

Posted on: 5/8 15:38
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Haggis wrote:
We like the ban on chain stores. It's not like they are so far away if one really wants to go to one...


Depends on what you're looking to buy. If the area where CVS was looking to locate was already saturated with drugstores, I guess it doesn't matter. Still, I don't like local government or anyone else deciding what kind of shopping is best for me. The capitalist system is far from perfect, but this is one area where government intervention is unnecessary and oversteps what consumers prefer. If you hate the chain stores so much, keep supporting the local stores as much as possible and don't go to the chains. But don't deny me where I want to shop.

Posted on: 5/8 14:39
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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We like the ban on chain stores. It's not like they are so far away if one really wants to go to one...

Posted on: 5/8 14:14
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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PremiumContent wrote:
Two Boots is better than most of the pizza downtown (which is almost universally mediocre).


And apparently Two Boots felt the food trucks were better than their pizza, so they lobbied the government to ban food trucks from Grove Square.

Posted on: 5/8 12:34
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Two Boots is better than most of the pizza downtown (which is almost universally mediocre).

Posted on: 5/8 11:37
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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terrencemcd wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
How many stores have to be part of the chain before the city considers them to be big, bad, evil and corporate?


10 or more locations within 300 miles of Jersey City.



Thanks.

Ah, that would explain why Two Boots got so riled up about this space restriction, as they have 12 locations and are considered a "chain", yet had no problem forcing the "local" food trucks away from Grove Street. Love their hypocrisy but that's another story. I haven't been in there since all that nonsense started. Their pizza was mediocre at best anyway.

Honestly, I couldn't care less about CVS being blocked from Jersey City, their stores were always a joke in my experience, having lived in the Washington, DC area before, but given the fact that Walgreens has bought up every chain that CVS didn't (including Duane Reade), the area needs the competition. Furthermore, I don't care for the local government intervening in the free market system, thinking it knows what's best for us.

Posted on: 5/7 20:19
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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King Steve and the anti-business DemoCRAPS - business as usual. How is it that Krispy Kreme just opened near Grove Path - grease the pockets a little?

At least there won't be another four more years of this anti-business attitude in Washington.

Posted on: 5/7 19:36
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Two Boots pizza tastes like protectionism. Apparently, their pizza isn't good enough to stave off the food trucks, so they led the food truck ban.


Fair nuff, all I'm saying is it's not the worst pizza out there by a long shot. Hyperbole usually is self defeating as it loses you credibility.


Nor did I say it was the worst. I said "some of the worst". That wasn't hyperbole; it was just my opinion. Pizza is like ice cream -- pick your flavor and enjoy...

Posted on: 5/7 17:18
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Two Boots pizza tastes like protectionism. Apparently, their pizza isn't good enough to stave off the food trucks, so they led the food truck ban.


Fair nuff, all I'm saying is it's not the worst pizza out there by a long shot. Hyperbole usually is self defeating as it loses you credibility.

Posted on: 5/7 17:01
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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brewster wrote:
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jcneighbor wrote:
Two Boots Pizza is also a chain. And some of the worst pizza I've ever tasted...


Then you need to get around more. There's some seriously crappy za out there.


Two Boots pizza tastes like protectionism. Apparently, their pizza isn't good enough to stave off the food trucks, so they led the food truck ban.

Posted on: 5/7 16:47
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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jcneighbor wrote:
Two Boots Pizza is also a chain. And some of the worst pizza I've ever tasted...


Then you need to get around more. There's some seriously crappy za out there.

Posted on: 5/7 16:09
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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JCMan8 wrote:
Can CVS sue the city? Sick of these liberal laws restricting a landlord's right to rent out his own property.


Sue them on what grounds?

Posted on: 5/7 16:07
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Can CVS sue the city? Sick of these liberal laws restricting a landlord's right to rent out his own property.

Posted on: 5/7 15:37
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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jcneighbor wrote:
Two Boots Pizza is also a chain. And some of the worst pizza I've ever tasted...

Their locations: http://twoboots.com/locations/


I don't know how relevant it is, but some 2Boots are franchises including the one in JC; most are owned by the founder.

Posted on: 5/7 15:36
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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caj11 wrote:
How many stores have to be part of the chain before the city considers them to be big, bad, evil and corporate?


10 or more locations within 300 miles of Jersey City.


Posted on: 5/7 15:21
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Two Boots Pizza is also a chain. And some of the worst pizza I've ever tasted...

Their locations: http://twoboots.com/locations/

Posted on: 5/7 14:34
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Re: Citing chain store ban, Jersey City aims to block new CVS
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Technically speaking, Ibby's Falafel is a chain store, as they have a second location in East Brunswick. Does the law apply to them too?

How many stores have to be part of the chain before the city considers them to be big, bad, evil and corporate?

Posted on: 5/7 13:00
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