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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Going back to one of the original articles in the thread.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... _liberty_science_cen.html

"The council's unanimous action amends an existing zoning plan to create what the city calls a "science and technology district." The changes allow for construction of research and development facilities, labs, hotels, office space, restaurants and more."

I find it unbelievable that Boggiano and Yun voted to rezone, and now claim that they have to oppose a "giveaway" of "prime land."

Appraise the property? Sure. Make sure LSC can make good on its commitments? Sure, and the contract has provisions for that. Consider other options? Done already. Proposals for residences, hotels, and a convention center have all been floated and received no traction.

Do this by RFP? Why we LOVE RFPs! Except when they come out with results we don't like, such as the Ambulance contract, or the bid for Loews Jersey. Then, RFP's "don't take the important community connection into account" or something.*

(* With respect to the above, I actually think the city made the wrong decision in those two instances. The ambulance contract likely ran afoul of federal law, and the Loews had a lease upheld in court. Nevertheless, the RFPs came up with results that opponents would prefer to ignore.)

I fully understand concerns about the administration seeking to chase the shiny ring. While due diligence before and after the deal is necessary, the proposal is better than anything that comes along to date.

Posted on: 3/20 22:48
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Monroe wrote:
In a perverse kinda way, the fact that the schools suck so bad here means that anyone with kids who can afford to move to the burbs does just that, unless they can afford private school. I'm not even sure what JC HS is local to Newport-where do those kids go?


Sadly, this is entirely too true. I know many, many couples that have left Jersey City after having kids. And, honestly, it is hard to fault them: paying for a private school, on top of paying a ton for property taxes, is simply not feasible for a lot of young families. Heck, I know a couple (currently paying for private pre K) that is already planning to move out if their kid that is about to enter elementary school is chosen to be bussed instead of getting to attend the one down the street from their place in Hamilton Park.

Posted on: 3/20 22:34
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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379 Communipaw is 25 x 100 which is about 4 times smaller than .25 acres

Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
How can the land be estimated at $20 when developers brought land one minute by car according to the google map for $35 million? That land is 7 1/2 acres.

It's not 1 minute by car. It's more like 10 minutes.

Unless they build a vehicular bridge over the Morris Canal, there is no direct route between the LSC lot and downtown.

We see this differential in lots for sale. E.g. there's a lot at 379 Communipaw, .25 acres for $200k. Another lot is at 423 Grand is .33 acres and... $4 million.

And those two lots are only a 3 minute drive apart.

Is it news to you that in real estate, location is critical?

Posted on: 3/20 21:52
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In a perverse kinda way, the fact that the schools suck so bad here means that anyone with kids who can afford to move to the burbs does just that, unless they can afford private school. I'm not even sure what JC HS is local to Newport-where do those kids go?

Posted on: 3/20 21:11
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Yvonne wrote:
No, I think they are opposed because they were not contacted. I have always said one acre should be given to the local school system because there is a need for a school, especially a high school. Development has brought in a lot of school children that the current administration ignores in tax abatements hearings. A typical tax abatement hearing might show only 4 students on a 100 unit building. Those numbers are not realistic.


You love to make this claim, but guess what: I think you are just making it up. I am now living in my second development in which an abatement was granted (both developments had 20-year abatements, and both were 100+ units, one in BeLa, and the other in DTJC) and they were both almost entirely devoid of children, particularly school-age kids.

When in BeLa, I resided at the same building for almost nine years, and in all those years, I can only recall two families with one kid attending schools. Everyone else was single adults, or couples without kids, and the few that ended up getting pregnant and having kids, soon moved out and went elsewhere. At my new development (also 100+ units) there is one unit with one kid in high school (not sure if attending public schools in JC, but I am almost positive that is not the case) and a handful of families that have recently had kids and are looking at future options, including moving elsewhere.

My point is that the abatement studies may not be as far off as you claim: I am sure my experience is not that unique. I have friends in other abated buildings and their experiences are similar in that their buildings have almost no kids, and most families with newborns end up moving elsewhere.

Posted on: 3/20 21:07
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Monroe wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
Interesting that the teachers union would suddenly oppose this project. Such a move is more likely to make me want to support the project.

But, seriously, why the sudden interest and apparent opposition?


Since so little is known about the project I'd guess and say they're terrified the onsite school would be charter based.


That's exactly what I am thinking. But, as far as I know, there is no indication the school is slated (or, expected) to be a charter school, but the idea does have merit if it is tightly integrated into the SciTech institution, as a sort of "engineering" high school, a la Brooklyn Tech.

Posted on: 3/20 20:57
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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No, I think they are opposed because they were not contacted. I have always said one acre should be given to the local school system because there is a need for a school, especially a high school. Development has brought in a lot of school children that the current administration ignores in tax abatements hearings. A typical tax abatement hearing might show only 4 students on a 100 unit building. Those numbers are not realistic.

Posted on: 3/20 15:56
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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bodhipooh wrote:
Interesting that the teachers union would suddenly oppose this project. Such a move is more likely to make me want to support the project.

But, seriously, why the sudden interest and apparent opposition?


Since so little is known about the project I'd guess and say they're terrified the onsite school would be charter based.

Posted on: 3/20 15:41
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Interesting that the teachers union would suddenly oppose this project. Such a move is more likely to make me want to support the project.

But, seriously, why the sudden interest and apparent opposition?

Posted on: 3/20 15:32
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Teachers union seeks delay on Liberty Science Center plan

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on March 20, 2017 at 11:29 AM, updated March 20, 2017 at 11:51 AM

JERSEY CITY -- The Jersey City teachers union is joining two City Council members in urging Mayor Steve Fulop to delay a final council vote on a plan to give 16 acres of city land to Liberty Science Center for a new sci-tech complex.

In an open letter published in The Jersey Journal on Saturday, the Jersey City Education Association said it wants "a seat at the table" for any discussions on the project, SciTech Scity, which would include a K-12 public school for roughly 750 students.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... eks_delay_on_liberty.html


Posted on: 3/20 13:11
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Just a correction, you do not need to be on the speaker list to speak on an ordinance. The speaker list are for any comments. But please come to city hall and speak on this matter.

Posted on: 3/20 11:30
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Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
How can the land be estimated at $20 when developers brought land one minute by car according to the google map for $35 million? That land is 7 1/2 acres.

It's not 1 minute by car. It's more like 10 minutes.

Unless they build a vehicular bridge over the Morris Canal, there is no direct route between the LSC lot and downtown.

We see this differential in lots for sale. E.g. there's a lot at 379 Communipaw, .25 acres for $200k. Another lot is at 423 Grand is .33 acres and... $4 million.

And those two lots are only a 3 minute drive apart.

Is it news to you that in real estate, location is critical?


Silly comment. First, the projected project will have access to Johnston Avenue and Phillips Street. Second, the extension of Jersey Avenue into LSP is planned. So yes, it's a direct comparison.

As far as the 'donation', since it's being paid back-and JC taxpayers are second in line to receive funds to compensate for the still-as-yet unknown value of the land-let's do this.

The comp for the 7.5 acre plot, in 2015, was $35 million.

Let's use that as the valuation, in 2017, for more than DOUBLE the acreage.

Put JC in front of the 'donors' who want their 'donation' back first from whatever 'profits' are generated from 'whatever' profit generators are 'planned' but have JC keep title to the land until such time as the valuation is paid back.

How about that, shouldn't JC taxpayers get some relief?

And the carrot of a 'free' high school-great, they build a school. Is LSC paying to maintain the school? Paying the staff/administrators/janitors? Since we know JC school aid is frozen from the state, and likely diminish because of School Adjustment Aid reforms, what will be the cost to JC taxpayers for this 'free school'?

Posted on: 3/20 11:27
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Yvonne wrote:
How can the land be estimated at $20 when developers brought land one minute by car according to the google map for $35 million? That land is 7 1/2 acres.

It's not 1 minute by car. It's more like 10 minutes.

Unless they build a vehicular bridge over the Morris Canal, there is no direct route between the LSC lot and downtown.

We see this differential in lots for sale. E.g. there's a lot at 379 Communipaw, .25 acres for $200k. Another lot is at 423 Grand is .33 acres and... $4 million.

And those two lots are only a 3 minute drive apart.

Is it news to you that in real estate, location is critical?

Posted on: 3/20 10:24
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Monroe wrote:
Sorry, Dolomiti, I mistyped-it is 78 million. And in this link, the exec dir of the JCRA says that

'the Science center is currently raising 78 million of the 280 million cost and THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE PAID BACK FIRST FROM REVENUE GENERATED.'

I think you're failing to understand the structure.

The $78 million being raised now are donations. Not loans, no expectation of being paid back. If it's getting reimbursed, then it's not a donation. And yes, the term "donation" is used consistently in every article I've seen on this project.

After the project has turned $78m in profits, then the city starts getting 50% of the profits until the cost of the land is repaid. After that, the city gets 20% of profits.

I have no idea why they settled on the same number. My guess is that the initial $78m goes into an endowment.


Quote:
Do we know if they're borrowing against their endowment (if they have one), or will the city float bonds for this-who gives anyone 78 million with the expectation of getting it back without a plan, and that's before JC gets the land value back.

While I understand your confusion, and think they should probably have picked another number to start paying for the land at a different number to avoid exactly that confusion:

There is no repayment.

There is no borrowing.

There is no loan.

There are no bonds.

There is a plan.

Posted on: 3/20 9:59
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Please call the City Clerks office and add your name to the speakers list 201-547-2233.
The 2nd and FINAL READING IS CURRENTLY SCHEDULED FOR WEDNESDAY, MARCH 22 @ 6PM.
PLEASE COME OUT you OWE IT TO YOURSELF AND YOUR NEIGHBORS.

Posted on: 3/20 9:07
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Is this give a way a done deal or can it be stopped?

Posted on: 3/20 8:58
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Yvonne wrote:

at the end and I decided to cut my loss.



That's what the Mohel said as well.


#holla

Posted on: 3/19 22:15
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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psyop wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Esther Wintner speaks on the 16 acres of land.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Paa0K-Amrw8


Word of advice, learn how to record audio. You are outside with wind and cars driving by and audio is so bad I stopped watching after about 30 seconds. Hard to make your point if the production value is bad enough that no one watches.


I agree, I used a wirless mic and I should have brought a mic with a wire. The wireless mic picked up noise from the cars. However, it started to snow at the end and I decided to cut my loss.

Posted on: 3/19 21:10
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Yvonne wrote:
Esther Wintner speaks on the 16 acres of land.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Paa0K-Amrw8


Word of advice, learn how to record audio. You are outside with wind and cars driving by and audio is so bad I stopped watching after about 30 seconds. Hard to make your point if the production value is bad enough that no one watches.

Posted on: 3/19 21:04
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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I don't think the skate park has been completed at Berry Lane yet.

Posted on: 3/19 19:09
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Thanks for the pics, stc4blues!

I am sure most people don't even know about it. I first stumbled upon it when, after Hurricane Sandy had washed away the stinky bridge, I decided to walk through that area to get to DT. On a second occasion, I walked by with my teenage daughter in tow. The skaters (all boys) didn't particularly like we were intruding in their turf (going by the stares) but kept to themselves and continued skating.

Have they moved over to the new Berry Lane Park (there is a skate park there, right?) or are they still hanging out in that wooded area?


Posted on: 3/19 18:38
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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bodhipooh wrote:

snip

Oh, yeah. I know that area. There's an area in the middle used by teen skaters. Pretty cool spot they have taken over and made into a sort of skating park. I wasn't aware it had been sold, or may have forgotten.


IMGP2961

IMGP3222

IMGP6502

Posted on: 3/19 17:14
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Monroe wrote:
She's correct on this, Bodi, it's the land just north of the LSC on the other side of Johnston and west of the Philips extension that leads to the stinky bridge.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=7686454

Edited to add-the $35 million land sale was closed almost two years ago, so it might not be market correct-could be worth more now.


Oh, yeah. I know that area. There's an area in the middle used by teen skaters. Pretty cool spot they have taken over and made into a sort of skating park. I wasn't aware it had been sold, or may have forgotten.

Posted on: 3/19 16:32
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Posted on: 3/19 15:12
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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She's correct on this, Bodi, it's the land just north of the LSC on the other side of Johnston and west of the Philips extension that leads to the stinky bridge.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=7686454

Edited to add-the $35 million land sale was closed almost two years ago, so it might not be market correct-could be worth more now.

Posted on: 3/19 14:27
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Yvonne wrote:
How can the land be estimated at $20 when developers brought land one minute by car according to the google map for $35 million? That land is 7 1/2 acres.


What plot of land are you referring to in your post?


Posted on: 3/19 14:17
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Esther Wintner speaks on the 16 acres of land.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Paa0K-Amrw8

Posted on: 3/19 14:12
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Mao wrote:
Doesn't the guy in charge of this failure of a museum which closes at 4 every day, make over 400k a year?!


He does, plus another 40K+ in benefits and who knows what other perks. The COO makes 200K+ plus around another 20K in benefits and other perks. Then there are another seven or so Vice Presidents and other high level employees making well over 100-150K per year as well.

On the most recently available Form 990 tax return, the organization lists travel expenses at well over $ 100,000 (it's one location, where do they need to be traveling to so much) and also spent close to $ 200,000 going to conferences, conventions and meetings. They used to use KPMG, a Big 4 accounting firm to prepare their tax returns when a smaller less expensive firm would have done fine (fortunately, this is a change they did make last year).

Total management cesspool with bloated overhead (which used to be worse) that has a long way to go before they can be in the hotel/convention center business - God only knows how bloated things will become and what accounting tricks they will try to hide and/or justify certain costs when that happens.

But it does stay open until 530 on weekends.

Posted on: 3/18 19:10
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Sorry, Dolomiti, I mistyped-it is 78 million. And in this link, the exec dir of the JCRA says that

'the Science center is currently raising 78 million of the 280 million cost and THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE PAID BACK FIRST FROM REVENUE GENERATED.'

That's what needs to repaid before the city gets a dime.

'Raising' and 'paid back'. Does that sound like a one way donation from supporters?

Do we know if they're borrowing against their endowment (if they have one), or will the city float bonds for this-who gives anyone 78 million with the expectation of getting it back without a plan, and that's before JC gets the land value back.

http://www.hudsonreporter.com/view/fu ... y_top_story#ixzz4b5OgoHst

Posted on: 3/18 18:45
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How can the land be estimated at $20 when developers brought land one minute by car according to the google map for $35 million? That land is 7 1/2 acres.

Posted on: 3/18 16:58
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