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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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stateaidguy wrote:
Jersey City's taxes will definitely be below 2% post-reval, but this has nothing to do with the reval so much as it does the increase in Jersey City's Equalized Valuation.

JC's EV is now $24 billion and will be even higher after the reval is completed.

JC's all-in tax levy is now $448.7 million. That rate will increase too, but not in proportion to the increase in the Equalized Valuation.

$448.7 million / $24 billion = 1.87%.

The tax rate will fall farther once the new EV is computed.





SAG, Thank you! I'm so tried of the complete and utter BS from the fearmongers and the ignorant. I saw a news report the other day saying it's a double edged sword because the reval will hurt people, but will also generate more money for the city.


Well, an ignorant reporter is just that... ignorant.

BUT, the values provided by the state are very different from what you present in your post.

The State of NJ puts the total JC EV at $21,643,490,206 (21.6 B) for 2015, and 25,679,882,705 (25.7 B) for 2016. The effective tax rate (as calculated by the state) is 2.216% for 2015.

Source for the above:
EV 2016: http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxat ... df/lptval/2016/Hudson.pdf
EV 2015: http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxat ... df/lptval/2015/hudson.pdf
Effective Tax Rate 2015: http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/lpt/gtrhud15.pdf

How did you arrive at the total tax levy of $448.7 million? Do you have a source for that figure? Also, are you sure you are not using the valuation from valuation from 2016 and applying the effective tax rate for 2015? I ask because the figures are wildly different than what is on the State of NJ website. Thanks!

Posted on: 1/11 21:37
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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JCGuys wrote:
SAG, Thank you! I'm so tried of the complete and utter BS from the fearmongers and the ignorant. I saw a news report the other day saying it's a double edged sword because the reval will hurt people, but will also generate more money for the city.


Must have been a "reporter" acting as stenographer for Yvonne.

Posted on: 1/11 20:50
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stateaidguy wrote:
Jersey City's taxes will definitely be below 2% post-reval, but this has nothing to do with the reval so much as it does the increase in Jersey City's Equalized Valuation.

JC's EV is now $24 billion and will be even higher after the reval is completed.

JC's all-in tax levy is now $448.7 million. That rate will increase too, but not in proportion to the increase in the Equalized Valuation.

$448.7 million / $24 billion = 1.87%.

The tax rate will fall farther once the new EV is computed.





The reval will not increase or lower tax revenue for the city. It will simply re-allocate the tax bill among property owners.

Posted on: 1/11 19:14
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JCGuys wrote:
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stateaidguy wrote:
Jersey City's taxes will definitely be below 2% post-reval, but this has nothing to do with the reval so much as it does the increase in Jersey City's Equalized Valuation.

JC's EV is now $24 billion and will be even higher after the reval is completed.

JC's all-in tax levy is now $448.7 million. That rate will increase too, but not in proportion to the increase in the Equalized Valuation.

$448.7 million / $24 billion = 1.87%.

The tax rate will fall farther once the new EV is computed.





SAG, Thank you! I'm so tried of the complete and utter BS from the fearmongers and the ignorant. I saw a news report the other day saying it's a double edged sword because the reval will hurt people, but will also generate more money for the city.


Isn't the reval to be a net zero increase in tax revenue

Posted on: 1/11 19:12
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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stateaidguy wrote:
Jersey City's taxes will definitely be below 2% post-reval, but this has nothing to do with the reval so much as it does the increase in Jersey City's Equalized Valuation.

JC's EV is now $24 billion and will be even higher after the reval is completed.

JC's all-in tax levy is now $448.7 million. That rate will increase too, but not in proportion to the increase in the Equalized Valuation.

$448.7 million / $24 billion = 1.87%.

The tax rate will fall farther once the new EV is computed.





SAG, Thank you! I'm so tried of the complete and utter BS from the fearmongers and the ignorant. I saw a news report the other day saying it's a double edged sword because the reval will hurt people, but will also generate more money for the city.

Posted on: 1/11 16:13
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Jersey City's taxes will definitely be below 2% post-reval, but this has nothing to do with the reval so much as it does the increase in Jersey City's Equalized Valuation.

JC's EV is now $24 billion and will be even higher after the reval is completed.

JC's all-in tax levy is now $448.7 million. That rate will increase too, but not in proportion to the increase in the Equalized Valuation.

$448.7 million / $24 billion = 1.87%.

The tax rate will fall farther once the new EV is computed.




Posted on: 1/11 15:17
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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From my understanding of the reassessment, the city will provide a fair market value for the home, if it sells at 1.8 it's a pretty good indication that 1.8 is the FMV. If the taxes go to 2.0%(seems low but humor me) that would make the taxes 36k annually, or 3k a month. That represents an increase of $2,117 in monthly overhead, which corresponds to about $580k in mortgage at 3.625%, I wouldn't touch downtown JC until after this is over.


Exactly my take, and the main reason I am sitting out the market for another two years. If I was to plunk down 1.5 MM for a property, I want to know I am not going to get creamed in real estate property taxes for little to no benefit. At that price point, BK (and, NYC in general) starts to look very, very enticing. People point out that in NYC you would be on the hook for the city income tax, but even after factoring in the NYC income tax, the total tax burden (NYC income tax + property tax) would be lower than just the local property tax bill. Also, I really can't imagine the bump in DTJC property taxes not having some sort of effect on the real estate values.


Add to that is the fact that many Democrats across the state are getting behind 'fairness in school funding', which will likely end up with JC funding more than 17% of its school costs. Abbott won't go away soon, but expect some changes down the pike.


An excellent, and scary, observation. For all the bitching and moaning about property taxes in JC, if we end up with a tax rate below 2% after the reval, it is probably safe to assume that other NJ municipalities and counties will push to have JC shoulder more of the BOE budget. At 17%, we are getting a great deal and, given all the budget issues across the state, I am sure there will be a renewed effort to push JC (and, other Abbott districts that have seen an increase in the affluence of its residents) to pay a larger share of their school budgets.

Posted on: 1/11 14:15
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i don't dispute that taxes will and should rise, but $36K seems high. doesn't hoboken regularly conduct revals and their taxes are high compared to nyc, but not so amazing compared to other towns.

am i missing something?


Sigh... yes, you are missing the very basic premise of property taxes. A property tax rate is determined and that rate is applied to each property against its fair market value.

In JC, it is assumed that the tax rate will be about 2.2%. If a property is determined to be worth 1.8 MM, then its annual tax levy will be 39.6 K, assuming the rate determined by the reval ends up at 2.2%. I am starting to think that the rate will come out to be about 2%, which is why I calculated the future taxes of the brownstone in question to be 36K.

Posted on: 1/11 14:11
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ProdigalSon wrote:
From my understanding of the reassessment, the city will provide a fair market value for the home, if it sells at 1.8 it's a pretty good indication that 1.8 is the FMV. If the taxes go to 2.0%(seems low but humor me) that would make the taxes 36k annually, or 3k a month. That represents an increase of $2,117 in monthly overhead, which corresponds to about $580k in mortgage at 3.625%, I wouldn't touch downtown JC until after this is over.


Exactly my take, and the main reason I am sitting out the market for another two years. If I was to plunk down 1.5 MM for a property, I want to know I am not going to get creamed in real estate property taxes for little to no benefit. At that price point, BK (and, NYC in general) starts to look very, very enticing. People point out that in NYC you would be on the hook for the city income tax, but even after factoring in the NYC income tax, the total tax burden (NYC income tax + property tax) would be lower than just the local property tax bill. Also, I really can't imagine the bump in DTJC property taxes not having some sort of effect on the real estate values.


Add to that is the fact that many Democrats across the state are getting behind 'fairness in school funding', which will likely end up with JC funding more than 17% of its school costs. Abbott won't go away soon, but expect some changes down the pike.

Posted on: 1/11 12:53
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i don't dispute that taxes will and should rise, but $36K seems high. doesn't hoboken regularly conduct revals and their taxes are high compared to nyc, but not so amazing compared to other towns.

am i missing something?


Yes, Hoboken's tax rate is pretty low for NJ, 1.6%.

Posted on: 1/11 12:36
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The brownstone literally across the street is now paying just shy of $35k (one of the Dixon properties converted into a single family).

Posted on: 1/11 12:33
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i don't dispute that taxes will and should rise, but $36K seems high. doesn't hoboken regularly conduct revals and their taxes are high compared to nyc, but not so amazing compared to other towns.

am i missing something?

Posted on: 1/11 12:19
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From my understanding of the reassessment, the city will provide a fair market value for the home, if it sells at 1.8 it's a pretty good indication that 1.8 is the FMV. If the taxes go to 2.0%(seems low but humor me) that would make the taxes 36k annually, or 3k a month. That represents an increase of $2,117 in monthly overhead, which corresponds to about $580k in mortgage at 3.625%, I wouldn't touch downtown JC until after this is over.


Exactly my take, and the main reason I am sitting out the market for another two years. If I was to plunk down 1.5 MM for a property, I want to know I am not going to get creamed in real estate property taxes for little to no benefit. At that price point, BK (and, NYC in general) starts to look very, very enticing. People point out that in NYC you would be on the hook for the city income tax, but even after factoring in the NYC income tax, the total tax burden (NYC income tax + property tax) would be lower than just the local property tax bill. Also, I really can't imagine the bump in DTJC property taxes not having some sort of effect on the real estate values.

Posted on: 1/11 12:02
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From my understanding of the reassessment, the city will provide a fair market value for the home, if it sells at 1.8 it's a pretty good indication that 1.8 is the FMV. If the taxes go to 2.0%(seems low but humor me) that would make the taxes 36k annually, or 3k a month. That represents an increase of $2,117 in monthly overhead, which corresponds to about $580k in mortgage at 3.625%, I wouldn't touch downtown JC until after this is over.

Posted on: 1/11 11:20
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hero69 wrote:
now, what would carrying costs be for such a house in brooklyn? and, no, i don't consider bed-stuy as a comp for any part of dtjc


You can't make that comparison without factoring in all the other variables like NYC income tax. NYC non-commercial property taxes are subsidized by the city and are absurdly low. JC's are comparable with all the towns surrounding NYC.
i did a quick and dirty comparison to a house in carrol gardens, and this house would still be less than bklyn one even with higher taxes.

Principal and taxes on carrol gardens house is $13.7K per month, while jc house is $6.9K and even if taxes on jc house rose to $2K per month, the jc house would still be cheaper.

expert analysts, please weigh in....http://www.realtor.com/realestateandh ... lyn_NY_11231_M31624-66645


You are comparing a 3.2 MM home against one valued at half that. Of course the numbers are different! I am not sure what point you are trying to make with this comparison. Also, no one would consider DTJC equivalent to Carroll Gardens.

Now, let's say you found a comparable home at the same value (in a different neighborhood that is more similar to JC) you would end up with MUCH LOWER costs per month due to the fact that property taxes in NYC are super low, and that is the issue. A 1.8 MM home in JC will be paying 36K in taxes annually, while in NYC it will be under 1.5K. That's a 34K difference, for worse schools, worse infrastructure and worse neighborhood amenities. In a mortgage at current rates, that's the equivalent of about 650K. So, you could buy a property almost 2.5 MM and have the same monthly expense, but end up with better schools, infrastructure and amenities.

Lastly, the taxes after the reval for this property will be about 3K per month, not 2K.


My point is that a brownstone almost anywhere in brooklyn is gonna costs substantially more than something in dtjc.


Yes the best areas of BK are more expensive than DTJC, but DTJC is definitely more expensive than many BK areas. Take a look in Zillow and you will see this is true.

Quote:

on top of that, it seems that mortgage rates on things for things in brooklyn are higher than jersey city.


The differences are almost negligible. Less than .1% in the APR.

Quote:

also, i think property taxes on a 4 family in nyc are substantially higher than those on 1,2 or three family house.


Yes, this is true. A 4-unit (or, higher) residential property pays ~50% more in taxes. And, guess what!? It doesn't matter. The rate is still paltry at about 1.5%. The property you mentioned is paying just under 1% (it's a theee-family).

Posted on: 1/11 0:20
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hero69 wrote:
now, what would carrying costs be for such a house in brooklyn? and, no, i don't consider bed-stuy as a comp for any part of dtjc


You can't make that comparison without factoring in all the other variables like NYC income tax. NYC non-commercial property taxes are subsidized by the city and are absurdly low. JC's are comparable with all the towns surrounding NYC.
i did a quick and dirty comparison to a house in carrol gardens, and this house would still be less than bklyn one even with higher taxes.

Principal and taxes on carrol gardens house is $13.7K per month, while jc house is $6.9K and even if taxes on jc house rose to $2K per month, the jc house would still be cheaper.

expert analysts, please weigh in....http://www.realtor.com/realestateandh ... lyn_NY_11231_M31624-66645


You are comparing a 3.2 MM home against one valued at half that. Of course the numbers are different! I am not sure what point you are trying to make with this comparison. Also, no one would consider DTJC equivalent to Carroll Gardens.

Now, let's say you found a comparable home at the same value (in a different neighborhood that is more similar to JC) you would end up with MUCH LOWER costs per month due to the fact that property taxes in NYC are super low, and that is the issue. A 1.8 MM home in JC will be paying 36K in taxes annually, while in NYC it will be under 1.5K. That's a 34K difference, for worse schools, worse infrastructure and worse neighborhood amenities. In a mortgage at current rates, that's the equivalent of about 650K. So, you could buy a property almost 2.5 MM and have the same monthly expense, but end up with better schools, infrastructure and amenities.

Lastly, the taxes after the reval for this property will be about 3K per month, not 2K.
my point is that a brownstone almost anywhere in brooklyn is gonna costs substantially more than something in dtjc. on top of that, it seems that mortgage rates on things for things in brooklyn are higher than jersey city. also, i think property taxes on a 4 family in nyc are substantially higher than those on 1,2 or three family house.

Posted on: 1/10 21:32
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now, what would carrying costs be for such a house in brooklyn? and, no, i don't consider bed-stuy as a comp for any part of dtjc


You can't make that comparison without factoring in all the other variables like NYC income tax. NYC non-commercial property taxes are subsidized by the city and are absurdly low. JC's are comparable with all the towns surrounding NYC.
i did a quick and dirty comparison to a house in carrol gardens, and this house would still be less than bklyn one even with higher taxes.

Principal and taxes on carrol gardens house is $13.7K per month, while jc house is $6.9K and even if taxes on jc house rose to $2K per month, the jc house would still be cheaper.

expert analysts, please weigh in....http://www.realtor.com/realestateandh ... lyn_NY_11231_M31624-66645


You are comparing a 3.2 MM home against one valued at half that. Of course the numbers are different! I am not sure what point you are trying to make with this comparison. Also, no one would consider DTJC equivalent to Carroll Gardens.

Now, let's say you found a comparable home at the same value (in a different neighborhood that is more similar to JC) you would end up with MUCH LOWER costs per month due to the fact that property taxes in NYC are super low, and that is the issue. A 1.8 MM home in JC will be paying 36K in taxes annually, while in NYC it will be under 1.5K. That's a 34K difference, for worse schools, worse infrastructure and worse neighborhood amenities. In a mortgage at current rates, that's the equivalent of about 650K. So, you could buy a property almost 2.5 MM and have the same monthly expense, but end up with better schools, infrastructure and amenities.

Lastly, the taxes after the reval for this property will be about 3K per month, not 2K.

Posted on: 1/10 21:25
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now, what would carrying costs be for such a house in brooklyn? and, no, i don't consider bed-stuy as a comp for any part of dtjc


You can't make that comparison without factoring in all the other variables like NYC income tax. NYC non-commercial property taxes are subsidized by the city and are absurdly low. JC's are comparable with all the towns surrounding NYC.
i did a quick and dirty comparison to a house in carrol gardens, and this house would still be less than bklyn one even with higher taxes.

Principal and taxes on carrol gardens house is $13.7K per month, while jc house is $6.9K and even if taxes on jc house rose to $2K per month, the jc house would still be cheaper.

expert analysts, please weigh in....http://www.realtor.com/realestateandh ... lyn_NY_11231_M31624-66645

Posted on: 1/10 17:56
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now, what would carrying costs be for such a house in brooklyn? and, no, i don't consider bed-stuy as a comp for any part of dtjc


You can't make that comparison without factoring in all the other variables like NYC income tax. NYC non-commercial property taxes are subsidized by the city and are absurdly low. JC's are comparable with all the towns surrounding NYC.

Posted on: 1/10 17:12
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Yet another example of another DTJC property paying a ridiculously low tax property levy...

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/243 ... y-NJ-07302/38888495_zpid/

Zillow estimate value: 1.6 MM
Asking price: 1.8 MM

Property Tax: 10.6 K
Effective tax rate paid: 0.6% of asking price, 0.66% of estimated value

Even if we end up with a 2% property tax rate after the reval, that property is looking at a 3x increase in its tax levy, minimum.
now, what would carrying costs be for such a house in brooklyn? and, no, i don't consider bed-stuy as a comp for any part of dtjc

Posted on: 1/10 16:21
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Yet another example of another DTJC property paying a ridiculously low tax property levy...

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/243 ... y-NJ-07302/38888495_zpid/

Zillow estimate value: 1.6 MM
Asking price: 1.8 MM

Property Tax: 10.6 K
Effective tax rate paid: 0.6% of asking price, 0.66% of estimated value

Even if we end up with a 2% property tax rate after the reval, that property is looking at a 3x increase in its tax levy, minimum.

Posted on: 1/10 16:05
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landshark wrote:
What are the odds the new values are sent to taxpayers by Nov. 13, 2017 as planned? In the original timeline inspections were supposed to start in Sept 2016 so already 4.5 months delayed.


Good question. One minor quibble, though: the reval is (as of right now) delayed 3.5 months, as inspections were supposed to start on September 29, 2016.

I think the timeline is now VERY tight, given the amount of properties that need to be evaluated. Not sure it can be done properly, unless you hire a small army of property evaluators. At least 100, I would think.

Posted on: 1/10 16:00
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What are the odds the new values are sent to taxpayers by Nov. 13, 2017 as planned? In the original timeline inspections were supposed to start in Sept 2016 so already 4.5 months delayed.

Posted on: 1/10 13:34
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135jc, from sellers.

Posted on: 1/9 14:54
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Does anyone know if the reval company will be looking at code compliance issues while doing the reval? Also, does anyone know when the inspections will start?


If you turned your house into a five family from two family, probably. If you put in a couple of extra outlets over four floors, not so much.

Posted on: 1/4 19:45
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Does anyone know if the reval company will be looking at code compliance issues while doing the reval? Also, does anyone know when the inspections will start?

Posted on: 1/4 19:02
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K-Lo2 wrote:
Recently heard that buyers from outside JC are getting wind of reval and pushing back on DT prices. A lot more negotiating going on.


Where did you hear that?

Posted on: 1/3 21:17
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Recently heard that buyers from outside JC are getting wind of reval and pushing back on DT prices. A lot more negotiating going on.

Posted on: 1/3 13:44
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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hero69 wrote:
i was looking at properties for sale and i noticed that prices in the heights seemed to have jumped significantly. i almost fell backwards when i saw the prices! if owners are realizing such prices, that should have an mitigate the impact of the reval on downtown


Hope springs eternal... the vast majority of properties in the Heights currently listed for above average asking prices have been on the market for a long time, some close to six months. That tells you that the asking price is too high and the properties not really selling at those asking prices.

Looking at the "Recently Sold" properties for the past few months, the prices do show an uptick in value but the taxes are VERY close to where they should be if one assumes a ~2 percent tax rate. On average, I find most properties sold in recent months were paying properties taxes of around 1.8% which, while lower than the assumed rate of 2.2%, it is infinitely closer and better than what recent sales in downtown are paying, which is often under 1%. In other words, some of those Heights properties will see a raise in their tax levy, but it will not be much at all, and it will not at all soften the impact on downtown.

Posted on: 1/1 22:05
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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hero69 wrote:
i was looking at properties for sale and i noticed that prices in the heights seemed to have jumped significantly. i almost fell backwards when i saw the prices! if owners are realizing such prices, that should have an mitigate the impact of the reval on downtown

I've seen old houses for over $500k and decent condos for $200k...on the market for months on end.

Posted on: 1/1 18:23
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