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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Not today. But had brown water on Saturday. I assumed it was related to the water main break in Hoboken that day.

Sure wish we had a mayor who focused on infrastructure for the residents that already live here, instead of encouraging more people to move here and make the brown water "theirs."

Posted on: 1/17 14:22
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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brown water at Monmouth and 1st currently, anyone else having this problem? I sent Suez a message on Twitter.

Posted on: 1/17 9:14
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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brewster wrote:
To my understanding, this is nonsense, we have a gravity fed system from the Boonton reservoir, similar to NYC. Even systems that have to pump for pressure use towers to provide a steady pressure head, not on-demand pumps. Can you corroborate what you say?


That’s a good point, it seems you’re right. I don’t know much about the system, but apparently it does use a gravity feed. My experience is with non-potable water systems which tend to be quite different, so my bad.

You’re also right that pressure in the system is supposed to be constant. There are ways to do that, but that doesn’t mean the solutions are flawless. Pressure in our system does really change throughout the day, and after taking showers in the same place over the past ten years, I’m hopefully not just imagining it. (It’s also independent of additional water demand in my building, which has a more obvious impact.)

I’m not talking about major fluctuations, but they’re still not healthy for old cast iron pipes. Thousands and thousands of small, repeated cycles can really add up when talking about mechanical stresses.

The pace of construction over the past 15-20 years also can’t help but be related to significant disturbances to our water mains. The worst thing you can do with a buried utility is touch it. Underground soil erosion, which seems to be common downtown, is probably also a factor that increases stress on the pipes.

Point is—they’re not failing just because they’re old. I’ve seen piping only months old fail due to water chemistry or mechanical stresses, and I’ve seen piping older than me in perfectly serviceable condition. There’s always more to it.
.

At least we can probably agree that infrastructure improvements are a political hot potato. Officials aren’t in office long enough to reap the rewards of expensive long-term projects. They’re only around long enough for the criticism, and who wants that?

Posted on: 12/16 14:28
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Frank_M wrote:
Since you mention it, water pressure in the system is not constant. It fluctuates throughout the day. The sudden early morning demand creates a large pressure drop that the pump house has to account for, and they seem to do it by increasing the pressure before the demand kicks in.


To my understanding, this is nonsense, we have a gravity fed system from the Boonton reservoir, similar to NYC. Even systems that have to pump for pressure use towers to provide a steady pressure head, not on-demand pumps. Can you corroborate what you say?

Posted on: 12/16 11:58
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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brewster wrote:
People, please. Water mains don't break because of usage, they're under the same pressure whether you're running water or not. They break because they're fucking ancient, like all the infrastructure around here like sewers, roads and bridges that no one wanted to fix for decades since it was more fun diverting funds to their favorite pockets. No politician ever got re-elected saying "I maintained the water system!!" They'd rather point to crap like painting bike stripes and murals.


Yes, but to be fair - increased use can cause increased corrosion (which is the first main cause for water main breaks) -- as well as heavy construction trucks can also move soil (second main cause of water main breaks) especially when frozen or very dry.

http://www.waterworld.com/articles/pr ... st-water-main-breaks.html

Posted on: 12/16 11:43
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Christine wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Christine wrote:
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lomotion1 wrote:
Is it normal for a city to have as many water main breaks as JC? I've been here for 10 years and I feel like it is once or twice a year at this point.


For a city as old as JC, yes. Hoboken has a lot more, actually.


This isn't "normal." It is the result of neglect for downtown infrastructure. Too many tax abatements and not enough upkeep. Downtown was never equipped to handle the amount of residents it has now. Infrastructure was never required of the developers. If you look at other areas of Jersey City (Journal Square not often and Heights even less), you don't see this.


Even a broken clock is right twice a day...

You are right that this is not normal, and that it is the result of neglect. The rest is just opinion, and conjecture, and most of it wrong.

Abatements have nothing to do with a water main break. An abatement means that the Jersey City coffers are getting MORE money (the county is the one getting screwed out of money) so in theory the city has more money to dedicate to infrastructure upgrades and maintenance.

People love to grouse that JC is overpopulated, but the facts say otherwise: the population of Jersey City today is actually 15% lower than it was at its peak in the 1930s.

Over the past yeasr, the JSQ and Heights area have seen some water main breaks. The entirety of the city infrastructure is crumbling and needs some serious work, particularly the sewer system.


Not sure why you have the need to be insulting rather than just partake in the discussion, but I'm sure that there is a therapist out there who can help you with that.

The fact is that the Heights and Journal Square area have had FAR less water main breaks than downtown. I am well aware of PILOT programs and how they operate. My point is that part of any abatement should include some agreement that the developer be responsible for contributing to our infrastructure. Yes, the sewers are crumbling downtown; however, sewers were replaced in Lafayette section in recent years. While I'm sure that being from downtown and having to pay more taxes than anyone else and dealing with flooding and water main breaks is upsetting, it doesn't help to lash out at other people.

As for your population comment, there weren't 300,000 people living in Jersey City taking showers. We can all check the census on wikipaedia and find facts, but if you aren't astute enough to assumes variables (how many of those were children how many families had cars, etc), that data is apples and oranges.


1. Infrastructure in JSQ and the heights isn't even a fraction as old as downtown. So that's a terrible comparison.

2. Taking showers has nothing to do with the sewers being over capacity. If everyone took a shower at once and flushed at the same time, they'd be fine. The problem is with heavy rain. That's a fact that you're free to snub, but it is a fact.

3. As others have already competently responded, water pressure does not cause a main to break, and abatements are unrelated. Though in a way, abatements help because some of those projects do require an exchange for infrastructure improvements. So that argument is moot or even self-defeating.

Posted on: 12/16 11:15
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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brewster wrote:
People, please. Water mains don't break because of usage, they're under the same pressure whether you're running water or not.


Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
...DT had a TON of factories that used to operate 24/7, in addition to a local population that was very large. Do you have stats to back up your (implied) claim that there is more water usage now than before?


Since you mention it, water pressure in the system is not constant. It fluctuates throughout the day. The sudden early morning demand creates a large pressure drop that the pump house has to account for, and they seem to do it by increasing the pressure before the demand kicks in. Construction—and there’s been some of that going on—also forces shutdowns that affect water pressure in other parts of the system.

Old cast iron pipes do not like to see fluctuating pressure, and we are probably stressing the system quite a bit, in exactly that way. The age of a pipe is not the only factor affecting its longevity. It’s not even the most significant one.

In terms of stressing the system, the operative concept is demand, not usage, and the demand spike that occurs every weekday morning in 2016 is almost certainly larger than what it was in 1930, when showering was not the thing it is today.

Posted on: 12/16 10:45
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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brewster wrote:
People, please. Water mains don't break because of usage, they're under the same pressure whether you're running water or not. They break because they're fucking ancient, like all the infrastructure around here like sewers, roads and bridges that no one wanted to fix for decades since it was more fun diverting funds to their favorite pockets. No politician ever got re-elected saying "I maintained the water system!!" They'd rather point to crap like painting bike stripes and murals.


Logic doesn't work when people are intent on pushing an agenda, particularly for those railing about development (too much of it! too many abatements!) and parking (not enough free parking for longtime residents! build more decks in new buildings!!) and when something like this happens, non-related dots are connected using some rather flimsy logic strings.

So, a loony claiming that abatements are responsible for

Posted on: 12/16 7:59
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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People, please. Water mains don't break because of usage, they're under the same pressure whether you're running water or not. They break because they're fucking ancient, like all the infrastructure around here like sewers, roads and bridges that no one wanted to fix for decades since it was more fun diverting funds to their favorite pockets. No politician ever got re-elected saying "I maintained the water system!!" They'd rather point to crap like painting bike stripes and murals.

Posted on: 12/15 23:41
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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There are more than there should be. Especially downtown. The rocket scientists in City Hall don't think of this every time they OK another highrise to be built. This will start happening more in JSQ as they are going highrise happy up there as well.




Quote:

lomotion1 wrote:
Is it normal for a city to have as many water main breaks as JC? I've been here for 10 years and I feel like it is once or twice a year at this point.

Posted on: 12/15 23:25
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Christine wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

Christine wrote:
Quote:

jc_dweller wrote:
Quote:

lomotion1 wrote:
Is it normal for a city to have as many water main breaks as JC? I've been here for 10 years and I feel like it is once or twice a year at this point.


For a city as old as JC, yes. Hoboken has a lot more, actually.


This isn't "normal." It is the result of neglect for downtown infrastructure. Too many tax abatements and not enough upkeep. Downtown was never equipped to handle the amount of residents it has now. Infrastructure was never required of the developers. If you look at other areas of Jersey City (Journal Square not often and Heights even less), you don't see this.


Even a broken clock is right twice a day...

You are right that this is not normal, and that it is the result of neglect. The rest is just opinion, and conjecture, and most of it wrong.

Abatements have nothing to do with a water main break. An abatement means that the Jersey City coffers are getting MORE money (the county is the one getting screwed out of money) so in theory the city has more money to dedicate to infrastructure upgrades and maintenance.

People love to grouse that JC is overpopulated, but the facts say otherwise: the population of Jersey City today is actually 15% lower than it was at its peak in the 1930s.

Over the past yeasr, the JSQ and Heights area have seen some water main breaks. The entirety of the city infrastructure is crumbling and needs some serious work, particularly the sewer system.


Not sure why you have the need to be insulting rather than just partake in the discussion, but I'm sure that there is a therapist out there who can help you with that.

The fact is that the Heights and Journal Square area have had FAR less water main breaks than downtown. I am well aware of PILOT programs and how they operate. My point is that part of any abatement should include some agreement that the developer be responsible for contributing to our infrastructure. Yes, the sewers are crumbling downtown; however, sewers were replaced in Lafayette section in recent years. While I'm sure that being from downtown and having to pay more taxes than anyone else and dealing with flooding and water main breaks is upsetting, it doesn't help to lash out at other people.

As for your population comment, there weren't 300,000 people living in Jersey City taking showers. We can all check the census on wikipaedia and find facts, but if you aren't astute enough to assumes variables (how many of those were children how many families had cars, etc), that data is apples and oranges.


The irony of calling out someone for insults (never mind that none were flung) to then proceed to engage in many insults...

Where should I start? Your "point" was never elucidated. Next time, try and take some time to make a more coherent post that actually states the point you are trying to make. All you said was "too many tax abatements" and left it at that. As for the population stuff, you can argue all you want, but DT had a TON of factories that used to operate 24/7, in addition to a local population that was very large. Do you have stats to back up your (implied) claim that there is more water usage now than before? It is conjecture on your part. There may be more children in DTJC now (stats?) but there sure as heck have less factories using and consuming water than before.

As for the comment about downtown paying the most in taxes, that is also incorrect, and has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads (search for the various threads on the upcoming reval) so there is no bitching on my part about whether or not the DTJC population is paying enough or too much in taxes. The facts speak for themselves.

Posted on: 12/15 13:47
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

Christine wrote:
Quote:

jc_dweller wrote:
Quote:

lomotion1 wrote:
Is it normal for a city to have as many water main breaks as JC? I've been here for 10 years and I feel like it is once or twice a year at this point.


For a city as old as JC, yes. Hoboken has a lot more, actually.


This isn't "normal." It is the result of neglect for downtown infrastructure. Too many tax abatements and not enough upkeep. Downtown was never equipped to handle the amount of residents it has now. Infrastructure was never required of the developers. If you look at other areas of Jersey City (Journal Square not often and Heights even less), you don't see this.


Even a broken clock is right twice a day...

You are right that this is not normal, and that it is the result of neglect. The rest is just opinion, and conjecture, and most of it wrong.

Abatements have nothing to do with a water main break. An abatement means that the Jersey City coffers are getting MORE money (the county is the one getting screwed out of money) so in theory the city has more money to dedicate to infrastructure upgrades and maintenance.

People love to grouse that JC is overpopulated, but the facts say otherwise: the population of Jersey City today is actually 15% lower than it was at its peak in the 1930s.

Over the past yeasr, the JSQ and Heights area have seen some water main breaks. The entirety of the city infrastructure is crumbling and needs some serious work, particularly the sewer system.


Not sure why you have the need to be insulting rather than just partake in the discussion, but I'm sure that there is a therapist out there who can help you with that.

The fact is that the Heights and Journal Square area have had FAR less water main breaks than downtown. I am well aware of PILOT programs and how they operate. My point is that part of any abatement should include some agreement that the developer be responsible for contributing to our infrastructure. Yes, the sewers are crumbling downtown; however, sewers were replaced in Lafayette section in recent years. While I'm sure that being from downtown and having to pay more taxes than anyone else and dealing with flooding and water main breaks is upsetting, it doesn't help to lash out at other people.

As for your population comment, there weren't 300,000 people living in Jersey City taking showers. We can all check the census on wikipaedia and find facts, but if you aren't astute enough to assumes variables (how many of those were children how many families had cars, etc), that data is apples and oranges.

Posted on: 12/15 0:58
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Quote:

Christine wrote:
Quote:

jc_dweller wrote:
Quote:

lomotion1 wrote:
Is it normal for a city to have as many water main breaks as JC? I've been here for 10 years and I feel like it is once or twice a year at this point.


For a city as old as JC, yes. Hoboken has a lot more, actually.


This isn't "normal." It is the result of neglect for downtown infrastructure. Too many tax abatements and not enough upkeep. Downtown was never equipped to handle the amount of residents it has now. Infrastructure was never required of the developers. If you look at other areas of Jersey City (Journal Square not often and Heights even less), you don't see this.


Even a broken clock is right twice a day...

You are right that this is not normal, and that it is the result of neglect. The rest is just opinion, and conjecture, and most of it wrong.

Abatements have nothing to do with a water main break. An abatement means that the Jersey City coffers are getting MORE money (the county is the one getting screwed out of money) so in theory the city has more money to dedicate to infrastructure upgrades and maintenance.

People love to grouse that JC is overpopulated, but the facts say otherwise: the population of Jersey City today is actually 15% lower than it was at its peak in the 1930s.

Over the past yeasr, the JSQ and Heights area have seen some water main breaks. The entirety of the city infrastructure is crumbling and needs some serious work, particularly the sewer system.

Posted on: 12/14 7:48
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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jc_dweller wrote:
Quote:

lomotion1 wrote:
Is it normal for a city to have as many water main breaks as JC? I've been here for 10 years and I feel like it is once or twice a year at this point.


For a city as old as JC, yes. Hoboken has a lot more, actually.


This isn't "normal." It is the result of neglect for downtown infrastructure. Too many tax abatements and not enough upkeep. Downtown was never equipped to handle the amount of residents it has now. Infrastructure was never required of the developers. If you look at other areas of Jersey City (Journal Square not often and Heights even less), you don't see this.

Posted on: 12/13 17:59
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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lomotion1 wrote:
Is it normal for a city to have as many water main breaks as JC? I've been here for 10 years and I feel like it is once or twice a year at this point.


For a city as old as JC, yes. Hoboken has a lot more, actually.

Posted on: 12/13 11:56
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Lucky... no water on 1st and Marin, as of 11:15 AM.

Posted on: 12/13 11:16
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Water is back on at my place on 4th Street. Should we be boiling, though?

Posted on: 12/13 9:57
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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On_The_3rd wrote:
Suez is bad at updating their website with info, definitely check their Twitter or FB for updates.


True. Nothing of use in their site, and even the update that finally appeared was woefully inadequate. You would think they would just have an automatic twitter feed display on the site and solve the issue that way. Oh, well...

Posted on: 12/13 9:46
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Suez is bad at updating their website with info, definitely check their Twitter or FB for updates.

Posted on: 12/13 9:28
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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.
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Large Jersey City water main break disrupts light rail service

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... k.html#incart_2box_hudson


Accident on Turnpike extension, water main break causing traffic woes

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... s.html#incart_river_index

Posted on: 12/13 8:35
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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borisp wrote:
BTW, does anyone know if the schools will be open? Can they function without water?


I know for a fact that St Anthony's closed due to it, I would assume the public schools as well

Posted on: 12/13 7:44
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Follow them on Facebook or Twitter:

https://www.facebook.com/SUEZwaterNJ/
SUEZ Water North Jersey
1 hr ·
Please be advised that a SUEZ emergency crew has begun repairs to a water main at Washington Boulevard and Essex Street in Jersey City. Residents who may have lost water pressure in the immediate area can expect pressure to return shortly as the main has been isolated. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused and will work as quickly and safely as we can to restore full service.

https://twitter.com/SUEZwaterNJ
?@SUEZwaterNJ 1 hour ago
12-inch water main break at Washington & Essex Streets in #jerseycity. SUEZ is on the scene for repair.

NJ ?@SUEZwaterNJ 11 hours ago
We are working aggressively to restore water pressure to normal in #jerseycity.

?@SUEZwaterNJ 11 hours ago
Tank maintenance is being performed in #jerseycity. Customers may experience low water pressure during the 2 week project. Apologies to JC.

Posted on: 12/13 7:44
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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BTW, does anyone know if the schools will be open? Can they function without water?

Posted on: 12/13 7:32
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Almost no water pressure in 5th and Coles as well.

Posted on: 12/13 7:31
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Water completely out in PH too

Posted on: 12/13 7:05
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Is it normal for a city to have as many water main breaks as JC? I've been here for 10 years and I feel like it is once or twice a year at this point.

Posted on: 12/13 6:52
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Please don't tell me this is why helicopter is hovering? LOL.

Posted on: 12/13 6:36
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Super low pressure here as well. I contacted Suez and forwarded them this thread.

Posted on: 12/13 6:31
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Water main break at Washington & Essex in PH - nice that you can get info from the news and not your local water company.

Posted on: 12/13 6:15
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Re: No Water in Hamilton Park
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Just caught it on the TV News. Large water main break near Washington and Essex Streets. Light Rail Service is suspended.

Posted on: 12/13 6:15
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