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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
#44
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
Another issue re parking is induced demand. The more parking is made available in buildings or in lots, the more people may believe that car ownership is viable in JC, the more likely they are to own or keep a car, and voila the excess capacity generated by adding parking is soaked up very quickly.

I concur with some of the posters above that the better solution is to improve other transport options, ranging from public transport to car sharing to better bicycle infrastructure -- some of which is already happening, with projects such as the HBLR and Citibike.


This sounds like a logical reasoning, but the facts show otherwise. Most parking decks downtown are only half full! Most surface lots do fill up with people who work here, but if you take a walk through the decks in most of the high rises in DTJC, you will soon find that most of them are mostly empty, or maybe half full. That's why all of them have to resort to ridiculously low rates for those commuting here. While I do think it is prudent to include parking in some developments, the requirement of 1:1 parking to unit ratio (as in the past) is completely unnecessary. Even 1:2 may be too much. For example, among the 10 units in my floor, only three of us keep cars, while the rest do without them. It seems to be a very similar ratio on other floors based on conversations I have had with other neighbors.


Except that if we did away with 1:1 parking, prices would increase dramatically. I would keep 1:1 parking requirements and let the garages entice people to park with low rates. If they're cheap enough then you'll have residents without their own garages that have the ability to acquire permits park in hi-rise garages because it is cheap enough to do so. This is exactly what I do. On the other hand, if we only built enough garage spaces to suit the number absolutely required by immediate residents, prices would start to become similar to NYC, or at the very least Hoboken.

With respect to the prior proposal to "do away with cars", that is nonsensical. Many of us will not live without a car. I had a car when I lived in Manhattan as well. I can't and won't live without a car for a number of reasons - job related commuting, the fact that I have a few large dogs that wouldn't be allowed on public transport, and so on. I don't understand the knee-jerk reaction that some people have that if you want a car you should be evicted to the suburbs. Sensible policies to require adequate garage spacing in new construction and appropriate metering of certain spots to allow for day parking addresses much of the issue.


No one reasonable is saying that we need to do away with cars.

But since you've given many reasons why you and others prefer to have a car, a parking space must be valuable to you. Therefore, it doesn't really make sense to provide much parking real estate for free. This should be monetized like any other service.

Free market, baby.

Posted on: 2016/9/22 16:02
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Have you thought of giving up your car and taking public transportation or a taxi service like Uber and Lyft? If you only use your car to do groceries and only go far once in a while, getting rid of your car could be the solution to your parking problems. If you never used Uber, go download the app in the app store or the google play store and use the promotion code jmqwr1c9ue for a free ride (Up to $15). If you never used Lyft, download the app use code JCLISTER for $5 your next 10 rides (Up to $50 of free credit). NJTransit website has a trip planner for you to use for public tarnsportation, or you can use Google Maps to give you directions and transportation options.

Posted on: 2016/9/22 15:31
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:
Another issue re parking is induced demand. The more parking is made available in buildings or in lots, the more people may believe that car ownership is viable in JC, the more likely they are to own or keep a car, and voila the excess capacity generated by adding parking is soaked up very quickly.

I concur with some of the posters above that the better solution is to improve other transport options, ranging from public transport to car sharing to better bicycle infrastructure -- some of which is already happening, with projects such as the HBLR and Citibike.


This sounds like a logical reasoning, but the facts show otherwise. Most parking decks downtown are only half full! Most surface lots do fill up with people who work here, but if you take a walk through the decks in most of the high rises in DTJC, you will soon find that most of them are mostly empty, or maybe half full. That's why all of them have to resort to ridiculously low rates for those commuting here. While I do think it is prudent to include parking in some developments, the requirement of 1:1 parking to unit ratio (as in the past) is completely unnecessary. Even 1:2 may be too much. For example, among the 10 units in my floor, only three of us keep cars, while the rest do without them. It seems to be a very similar ratio on other floors based on conversations I have had with other neighbors.


Except that if we did away with 1:1 parking, prices would increase dramatically. I would keep 1:1 parking requirements and let the garages entice people to park with low rates. If they're cheap enough then you'll have residents without their own garages that have the ability to acquire permits park in hi-rise garages because it is cheap enough to do so. This is exactly what I do. On the other hand, if we only built enough garage spaces to suit the number absolutely required by immediate residents, prices would start to become similar to NYC, or at the very least Hoboken.

With respect to the prior proposal to "do away with cars", that is nonsensical. Many of us will not live without a car. I had a car when I lived in Manhattan as well. I can't and won't live without a car for a number of reasons - job related commuting, the fact that I have a few large dogs that wouldn't be allowed on public transport, and so on. I don't understand the knee-jerk reaction that some people have that if you want a car you should be evicted to the suburbs. Sensible policies to require adequate garage spacing in new construction and appropriate metering of certain spots to allow for day parking addresses much of the issue.

Posted on: 2016/9/22 15:22
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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dr_nick_riviera wrote:

Why on earth the council sided with and validated that despicable fat slob, who knows. They should know by now her and her parking cabal spout nothing but made up facts and nonsense.


Ha! This had me crying laughing! Thanks for the giggle.

Posted on: 2016/9/22 14:59
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Dolomiti wrote:
Another issue re parking is induced demand. The more parking is made available in buildings or in lots, the more people may believe that car ownership is viable in JC, the more likely they are to own or keep a car, and voila the excess capacity generated by adding parking is soaked up very quickly.

I concur with some of the posters above that the better solution is to improve other transport options, ranging from public transport to car sharing to better bicycle infrastructure -- some of which is already happening, with projects such as the HBLR and Citibike.


This sounds like a logical reasoning, but the facts show otherwise. Most parking decks downtown are only half full! Most surface lots do fill up with people who work here, but if you take a walk through the decks in most of the high rises in DTJC, you will soon find that most of them are mostly empty, or maybe half full. That's why all of them have to resort to ridiculously low rates for those commuting here. While I do think it is prudent to include parking in some developments, the requirement of 1:1 parking to unit ratio (as in the past) is completely unnecessary. Even 1:2 may be too much. For example, among the 10 units in my floor, only three of us keep cars, while the rest do without them. It seems to be a very similar ratio on other floors based on conversations I have had with other neighbors.

Posted on: 2016/9/22 14:58
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Another issue re parking is induced demand. The more parking is made available in buildings or in lots, the more people may believe that car ownership is viable in JC, the more likely they are to own or keep a car, and voila the excess capacity generated by adding parking is soaked up very quickly.

I concur with some of the posters above that the better solution is to improve other transport options, ranging from public transport to car sharing to better bicycle infrastructure -- some of which is already happening, with projects such as the HBLR and Citibike.

Posted on: 2016/9/22 14:44
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Sutherland wrote:
If the existing housing supply doesn't accommodate every new potential resident, that does not necessarily mean there has to be more development in JC. It could also mean that those potential new residents could look elsewhere to stake their claim. Newark, could be a great place to create new opportunities. The people who are most interested in more development are usually realtors and real estate sales associates.


WOW, Sutherland I'm curious do you have any rudimentary education in economics? Specifically the supply and demand curve?

Posted on: 2016/9/22 13:25
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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I pay real estate taxes, I don't have children to send to public school, should I get a refund? Quote:

Fomite wrote:
]
WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Parking is still real estate. If you want to park, you should pay for that service.
[/quote]

I pay real estate tax. I don't have a car to park. Do I get a refund?



[/quote]

Posted on: 2016/9/22 12:14
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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If the existing housing supply doesn't accommodate every new potential resident, that does not necessarily mean there has to be more development in JC. It could also mean that those potential new residents could look elsewhere to stake their claim. Newark, could be a great place to create new opportunities. The people who are most interested in more development are usually realtors and real estate sales associates.

Furthermore, my expectation of street parking is founded on the fact that I live in a neighborhood of homes that does not have off street parking, and street parking has always been the norm. To our bizarre argument that home owners who do not pay taxes should not be paying my free parking, then I could argue I should not be paying for school taxes because I don't have brats. It's ridiculous. Quote:

dr_nick_riviera wrote:


MDU development is necessary because we're in a huge housing crunch right now. Unless you want us turning into San Francisco, the only solution is to build up than around.

There are also plenty of people living in downtown that don't own cars and don't need parking spaces that pay the same tax you do. Why should MY tax dollars pay for your stupid luxury of free street parking when we have tons of half empty garages throughout town you can utilize to make your life easier?

I suspect your answer will be "Wah wah wah, it was like this when I got here, I'm ENTITLED to it!"[/quote]

Posted on: 2016/9/22 12:07
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Your logic is confusing. Yvonne blocked the permit hours extension because she said it would make it harder for people who don't live downtown to park downtown. So now more, not less, cars can come in after permit hours end at 5, not less. That doesn't lessen car ownership at all. In fact, its exactly the opposite effect.


Why on earth the council sided with and validated that despicable fat slob, who knows. They should know by now her and her parking cabal spout nothing but made up facts and nonsense.


Because a few other crazies got on board and accused Councilwoman Osborne of being racist by putting the change forth. And they were really brutal/out of line. Crazy, for sure. But the Council backs away from any accusations of Racism, no matter how far a stretch/completely off base they may be, like this case.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 21:41
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Your logic is confusing. Yvonne blocked the permit hours extension because she said it would make it harder for people who don't live downtown to park downtown. So now more, not less, cars can come in after permit hours end at 5, not less. That doesn't lessen car ownership at all. In fact, its exactly the opposite effect.


Why on earth the council sided with and validated that despicable fat slob, who knows. They should know by now her and her parking cabal spout nothing but made up facts and nonsense.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 21:38
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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OneSkirt wrote:
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PRA71 wrote:
When I was at the Parking Authority picking up some visitor passes a few months back, the woman behind the desk said that there was a measure in front of the city council to extend the parking stickers until 11PM - so the enforcement would be 8AM to 11PM. That should help if it does pass.


That got shot down at Council by Yvonne Balcer & Co several months ago, sadly. They claimed it would violate their rights to attend public government meetings at City Hall since parking around there would be affect. Nevermind that the City allows the public to use the lot adjacent to the back of City Hall for meeting parking for free...

Fact is, cars are not going away, and development is going to keep growing and building even more density. Both the extreme views of "its a city, deal with it/ditch your car" and "I deserve free street parking" are wrong and poor city planning. There does need to be a strategy created/overhauled to improve the parking crunch city-wide, INCREASE PUBLIC TRANSIT OPTIONS/IMPROVE FUNCTIONALITY in order to make car-free living more attractive and feasible (especially for families with kids), increase car sharing options, and force those car owners willfully moving into developments with parking to use that and not the street. Frankly, if you can afford to both own a car and pay the premiums to live in these new multi unit buildings with rental parking, you should be pushed to use it or forego your car, period.


Yay!! First time I'm thankful to Yvonne for an unintended consequence. I sold my car after it became too much of a headache to own in JC. It's great between the cost savings and stressfree lifestyle. The more folks that give up their cars due to the hassles of having one in JC, the stonger the pedestrian\transit\bike\uber lobby will become.

What's needed is better transit to further encourage residents to ditch the car.


Your logic is confusing. Yvonne blocked the permit hours extension because she said it would make it harder for people who don't live downtown to park downtown. So now more, not less, cars can come in after permit hours end at 5, not less. That doesn't lessen car ownership at all. In fact, its exactly the opposite effect.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 20:54
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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OneSkirt wrote:
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PRA71 wrote:
When I was at the Parking Authority picking up some visitor passes a few months back, the woman behind the desk said that there was a measure in front of the city council to extend the parking stickers until 11PM - so the enforcement would be 8AM to 11PM. That should help if it does pass.


That got shot down at Council by Yvonne Balcer & Co several months ago, sadly. They claimed it would violate their rights to attend public government meetings at City Hall since parking around there would be affect. Nevermind that the City allows the public to use the lot adjacent to the back of City Hall for meeting parking for free...

Fact is, cars are not going away, and development is going to keep growing and building even more density. Both the extreme views of "its a city, deal with it/ditch your car" and "I deserve free street parking" are wrong and poor city planning. There does need to be a strategy created/overhauled to improve the parking crunch city-wide, INCREASE PUBLIC TRANSIT OPTIONS/IMPROVE FUNCTIONALITY in order to make car-free living more attractive and feasible (especially for families with kids), increase car sharing options, and force those car owners willfully moving into developments with parking to use that and not the street. Frankly, if you can afford to both own a car and pay the premiums to live in these new multi unit buildings with rental parking, you should be pushed to use it or forego your car, period.


Yay!! First time I'm thankful to Yvonne for an unintended consequence. I sold my car after it became too much of a headache to own in JC. It's great between the cost savings and stressfree lifestyle. The more folks that give up their cars due to the hassles of having one in JC, the stonger the pedestrian\transit\bike\uber lobby will become.

What's needed is better transit to further encourage residents to ditch the car.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 20:11
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Fomite wrote:
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Sutherland wrote:
I do pay for parking. It's called real estate taxes. Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Parking is still real estate. If you want to park, you should pay for that service.


I pay real estate tax. I don't have a car to park. Do I get a refund?


By Sutherland's logic, the city should be paying me. I purchased a deeded parking spot AND I pay property tax on said parking spot to the tune of $100 each quarter. So, absolutely zero sympathy from me.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 19:48
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Sutherland wrote:
I do pay for parking. It's called real estate taxes. Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Parking is still real estate. If you want to park, you should pay for that service.


I pay real estate tax. I don't have a car to park. Do I get a refund?




Posted on: 2016/9/21 19:10
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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PRA71 wrote:
When I was at the Parking Authority picking up some visitor passes a few months back, the woman behind the desk said that there was a measure in front of the city council to extend the parking stickers until 11PM - so the enforcement would be 8AM to 11PM. That should help if it does pass.


That got shot down at Council by Yvonne Balcer & Co several months ago, sadly. They claimed it would violate their rights to attend public government meetings at City Hall since parking around there would be affect. Nevermind that the City allows the public to use the lot adjacent to the back of City Hall for meeting parking for free...

Fact is, cars are not going away, and development is going to keep growing and building even more density. Both the extreme views of "its a city, deal with it/ditch your car" and "I deserve free street parking" are wrong and poor city planning. There does need to be a strategy created/overhauled to improve the parking crunch city-wide, INCREASE PUBLIC TRANSIT OPTIONS/IMPROVE FUNCTIONALITY in order to make car-free living more attractive and feasible (especially for families with kids), increase car sharing options, and force those car owners willfully moving into developments with parking to use that and not the street. Frankly, if you can afford to both own a car and pay the premiums to live in these new multi unit buildings with rental parking, you should be pushed to use it or forego your car, period.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 18:40
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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When I was at the Parking Authority picking up some visitor passes a few months back, the woman behind the desk said that there was a measure in front of the city council to extend the parking stickers until 11PM - so the enforcement would be 8AM to 11PM. That should help if it does pass.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 18:17
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Sutherland wrote:
mmm, I don't agree with you on that. I think paying real estate taxes guarantees me use of services and facilities that one should expect when one owns a home, including the ability to find parking on the street. Quote:

sullyx wrote:
That guarantees you a spot on YOUR property, not on the public streets.

Quote:

Sutherland wrote:
I do pay for parking. It's called real estate taxes. Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Parking is still real estate. If you want to park, you should pay for that service.


It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, it's about the facts. "I think" you should get a guarantee on parking on public streets in writing next time.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 18:16
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Sutherland wrote:
I don't know when you moved to the area, but I have to disagree with you. I bought my brownstone in 2000, so I was incorrect when I said 20 years, it was 16 years ago. The neighborhood was already very nice. There were just fewer families with bratty moms and their intolerable children. However, there was plenty of parking. The neighborhood starting changing slowly in the 80s when those new constituents starting making a real impact. However, when I moved here there was plenty of parking. The parking issue in the Hamilton Park area has changed detrimentally in the last 3 years. Quote:

jc_dweller wrote:
[

Parking issues are concomitant in a successful city (measured primarily by real estate demand). That's factual. There are books and studies on it. The only reason that JC had abundant parking 15-20 years ago was because it was still recovering from what happened to it 30-40 years ago.

If you want a city with ample parking, I hear Detroit is lovely this time of year.

If you think that tight parking represents bad planning, that's merely you valuing your car above what others would consider more important measures of livability.


Apologies if I came across as giving exact dates. Yes I lived here back then. Changes started taking place after the neighborhood was added to the historic register. By the early 2000s it was finally considered more or less "safe". Parking IMO became tight about 8 years ago - but that varies by block.

The gist of my original message holds - as the neighborhood becomes more and more "desirable" (again, we're talking about DEMAND, not what anyone's personal opinion is) parking becomes more scarce, which is universally a sign of a flourishing American city.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 17:58
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Staying static and becoming dense to the point of not having adequate parking are not the same thing. With regard to your comparison to Columbus and Marin, I think it can't go unnoticed that he housing stock there is very different. The Hamilton Park Neighborhood has always been mostly brownstones. The recent addition of multi unit housing was never part of the original fabric of the neighborhood. While, I am not totally opposed to some development, the development should be more appropriate to the area and should not depreciate the quality of life in the neighborhood. If we were to carry your argument further, it would stand to reason that you may support the idea that Hamilton Park should be converted into more multi unit buildings or a parking deck. Which I think would be a disaster Quote:

bill wrote:
So you just assumed a nice neighborhood close to Manhattan would stay static? If there was plenty of parking, by the second law of thermodynamics, that parking will be equalized with the rest of the city. Do you think people who live on Columbus & Marin have street parking?


MDU development is necessary because we're in a huge housing crunch right now. Unless you want us turning into San Francisco, the only solution is to build up than around.

There are also plenty of people living in downtown that don't own cars and don't need parking spaces that pay the same tax you do. Why should MY tax dollars pay for your stupid luxury of free street parking when we have tons of half empty garages throughout town you can utilize to make your life easier?

I suspect your answer will be "Wah wah wah, it was like this when I got here, I'm ENTITLED to it!"

Posted on: 2016/9/21 17:38
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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mmm, I don't agree with you on that. I think paying real estate taxes guarantees me use of services and facilities that one should expect when one owns a home, including the ability to find parking on the street. Quote:

sullyx wrote:
That guarantees you a spot on YOUR property, not on the public streets.

Quote:

Sutherland wrote:
I do pay for parking. It's called real estate taxes. Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Parking is still real estate. If you want to park, you should pay for that service.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 17:32
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Staying static and becoming dense to the point of not having adequate parking are not the same thing. With regard to your comparison to Columbus and Marin, I think it can't go unnoticed that he housing stock there is very different. The Hamilton Park Neighborhood has always been mostly brownstones. The recent addition of multi unit housing was never part of the original fabric of the neighborhood. While, I am not totally opposed to some development, the development should be more appropriate to the area and should not depreciate the quality of life in the neighborhood. If we were to carry your argument further, it would stand to reason that you may support the idea that Hamilton Park should be converted into more multi unit buildings or a parking deck. Which I think would be a disaster Quote:

bill wrote:
So you just assumed a nice neighborhood close to Manhattan would stay static? If there was plenty of parking, by the second law of thermodynamics, that parking will be equalized with the rest of the city. Do you think people who live on Columbus & Marin have street parking?

Posted on: 2016/9/21 17:29
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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That guarantees you a spot on YOUR property, not on the public streets.

Quote:

Sutherland wrote:
I do pay for parking. It's called real estate taxes. Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Parking is still real estate. If you want to park, you should pay for that service.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 17:29
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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A CRISIS I TELL YOU, A CRISIS!!!

Posted on: 2016/9/21 16:51
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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So you just assumed a nice neighborhood close to Manhattan would stay static? If there was plenty of parking, by the second law of thermodynamics, that parking will be equalized with the rest of the city. Do you think people who live on Columbus & Marin have street parking?

Posted on: 2016/9/21 16:43
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Quote:

Sutherland wrote:
... The parking issue in the Hamilton Park area has changed detrimentally in the last 3 years.


Yes, of course, the road congestion and parking competition didn't make themselves felt all at once, the minute the population trend turned around. It took time for old housing to be renovated, new housing to be built, the city's reputation to change, etc.

Now the water that was filling the tub is starting to slop over the sides.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 16:42
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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I don't know when you moved to the area, but I have to disagree with you. I bought my brownstone in 2000, so I was incorrect when I said 20 years, it was 16 years ago. The neighborhood was already very nice. There were just fewer families with bratty moms and their intolerable children. However, there was plenty of parking. The neighborhood starting changing slowly in the 80s when those new constituents starting making a real impact. However, when I moved here there was plenty of parking. The parking issue in the Hamilton Park area has changed detrimentally in the last 3 years. Quote:

jc_dweller wrote:
[

Parking issues are concomitant in a successful city (measured primarily by real estate demand). That's factual. There are books and studies on it. The only reason that JC had abundant parking 15-20 years ago was because it was still recovering from what happened to it 30-40 years ago.

If you want a city with ample parking, I hear Detroit is lovely this time of year.

If you think that tight parking represents bad planning, that's merely you valuing your car above what others would consider more important measures of livability.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 16:29
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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When I moved here in 2000, the Hamilton Park Neighborhood was already quite nice. Do not fool yourself into believing that things changed only in the last 5 years. Things started chanting in the 80s, albiet slowly. But by 2000, it was very pleasant downtown. Quote:

elsquid wrote:
[quote]


No, it wasn't a city as it is now. It was a city in highly unusual circumstances, namely, it was just starting to recover from a major cratering of its population. The highest population of JC was in like the 30s or 40s; it's just getting back to its former level now, albeit with larger housing spaces than the tenements of yore.

In the meantime, as with many US cities in the midst of the Great White Flight to suburbia, it was relatively easy to get around by car in JC. The streetcar and bus system was gutted, further investments in transit weren't made, but it didn't really matter.

Now those chickens are coming home to roost. The US is realizing that city living is far more efficient and economically and socially dynamic than endless suburban sprawl, and our population is returning to its former levels and will soon surpass them.

What's missing is, as others have said, major reinvestments in transit, alternative transportation such as biking and walking, and other techniques that modern cities around the world have been and are continuing to adopt. That's what's needed here, not some magic parking bullet.

Yes, parking (and driving) privately owned passenger cars in a modern city is inherently flawed, and it was always an accident that it worked here as long as it did. All that is over.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 16:25
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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I don't understand why parking permits don't extend to evening hours, it makes no sense.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 16:24
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Re: Parking Issues Around Hamilton Park
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Quote:

Sutherland wrote:
However, I always found the argument that parking issues are concomitant to urban life to be absolutely ridiculous and lacking in any sort of thought.


Parking issues are concomitant in a successful city (measured primarily by real estate demand). That's factual. There are books and studies on it. The only reason that JC had abundant parking 15-20 years ago was because it was still recovering from what happened to it 30-40 years ago.

If you want a city with ample parking, I hear Detroit is lovely this time of year.

If you think that tight parking represents bad planning, that's merely you valuing your car above what others would consider more important measures of livability.

Posted on: 2016/9/21 16:18
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