SOS wrote:
Today for the first time Trump leads Clinton in 538's "Polls-only forecast" :

Hillary Clinton
49.9%
Donald Trump
50.1%
(July 30, 2016)

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Trump supporters - savor the moment.

TheBigGuy wrote:
He must have won over 10 new voters during the 30 minutes... not any criticism of his behavior by them in the Denver Post? Wouldn't you want to talk with them?

BTW SOS... If you read the story closely, Trump blasted the FM on Friday about a safety/capacity issue at a rally. He had no issue with the performance of the firefighters on Saturday that helped with the elevator. Two unrelated events. Sometimes FM jobs can be political appts. like the JC Director of Public Safety.

Quote:

AlexC wrote:
what an asshole. imagine how much more arrogant he'll be if the ignorant voters put him in the White House

Quote:

SOS wrote:
Baby Donald Stuck in Elevator: Throws Temper Tantrum - Blames it on Democrats

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/30/ ... p-criticism-fire-marshal/

Donald Trump rescued from stuck elevator by Colorado Springs firefighters. Then he called out the fire marshal.
Donald Trump was stuck in an elevator with 10 other people for 30 minutes, the fire department said

The fire marshal that Donald Trump criticized for capping attendance at his Colorado Springs event on Friday responded later to a local television station.

Fire marshal Brett Lacey told 11 News the problem was that organizers handed out too many tickets.

?There?s an old adage that when a fire marshal walks into a room, milk curdles. So because we?re always looking out for public safety and trying to make certain venues go off successfully and safely sometimes there are people that aren?t very happy with some of the rules and regulations we?re required to enforce. But it doesn?t bother me at all,? he told the TV station.

Criticizing the fire marshal on Friday, Trump said he didn?t know what he was doing and was ?probably a Democrat.?

Lacey, was recently honored by the city as ?Civilian of the Year? for his role in helping the wounded at a 2015 mass shooting at a local Planned Parenthood.

Also on Saturday, the Colorado Springs Fire Department confirmed that the reason Trump?s event started late was because he got stuck in a hotel elevator and had to be rescued by Colorado Springs firefighters.

The fire department said in a statement that Trump was trapped inside an elevator at The Mining Exchange Hotel with about 10 other people for 30 minutes.

Firefighters opened the top elevator hatch and lowered a ladder to get everyone out of the elevator.

AlexC wrote:
what an asshole. imagine how much more arrogant he'll be if the ignorant voters put him in the White House

Quote:

SOS wrote:
Baby Donald Stuck in Elevator: Throws Temper Tantrum - Blames it on Democrats

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/30/ ... p-criticism-fire-marshal/

Donald Trump rescued from stuck elevator by Colorado Springs firefighters. Then he called out the fire marshal.
Donald Trump was stuck in an elevator with 10 other people for 30 minutes, the fire department said

The fire marshal that Donald Trump criticized for capping attendance at his Colorado Springs event on Friday responded later to a local television station.

Fire marshal Brett Lacey told 11 News the problem was that organizers handed out too many tickets.

?There?s an old adage that when a fire marshal walks into a room, milk curdles. So because we?re always looking out for public safety and trying to make certain venues go off successfully and safely sometimes there are people that aren?t very happy with some of the rules and regulations we?re required to enforce. But it doesn?t bother me at all,? he told the TV station.

Criticizing the fire marshal on Friday, Trump said he didn?t know what he was doing and was ?probably a Democrat.?

Lacey, was recently honored by the city as ?Civilian of the Year? for his role in helping the wounded at a 2015 mass shooting at a local Planned Parenthood.

Also on Saturday, the Colorado Springs Fire Department confirmed that the reason Trump?s event started late was because he got stuck in a hotel elevator and had to be rescued by Colorado Springs firefighters.

The fire department said in a statement that Trump was trapped inside an elevator at The Mining Exchange Hotel with about 10 other people for 30 minutes.

Firefighters opened the top elevator hatch and lowered a ladder to get everyone out of the elevator.

SOS wrote:
Baby Donald Stuck in Elevator: Throws Temper Tantrum - Blames it on Democrats

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/30/ ... p-criticism-fire-marshal/

Donald Trump rescued from stuck elevator by Colorado Springs firefighters. Then he called out the fire marshal.
Donald Trump was stuck in an elevator with 10 other people for 30 minutes, the fire department said

The fire marshal that Donald Trump criticized for capping attendance at his Colorado Springs event on Friday responded later to a local television station.

Fire marshal Brett Lacey told 11 News the problem was that organizers handed out too many tickets.

?There?s an old adage that when a fire marshal walks into a room, milk curdles. So because we?re always looking out for public safety and trying to make certain venues go off successfully and safely sometimes there are people that aren?t very happy with some of the rules and regulations we?re required to enforce. But it doesn?t bother me at all,? he told the TV station.

Criticizing the fire marshal on Friday, Trump said he didn?t know what he was doing and was ?probably a Democrat.?

Lacey, was recently honored by the city as ?Civilian of the Year? for his role in helping the wounded at a 2015 mass shooting at a local Planned Parenthood.

Also on Saturday, the Colorado Springs Fire Department confirmed that the reason Trump?s event started late was because he got stuck in a hotel elevator and had to be rescued by Colorado Springs firefighters.

The fire department said in a statement that Trump was trapped inside an elevator at The Mining Exchange Hotel with about 10 other people for 30 minutes.

Firefighters opened the top elevator hatch and lowered a ladder to get everyone out of the elevator.

user1111 wrote:
Hillary on Fox

SOS wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Today for the first time Trump leads Clinton in 538's "Polls-only forecast" :

Hillary Clinton
49.9%
Donald Trump
50.1%
(July 30, 2016)

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Trump supporters - savor the moment.

I hope y'all enjoyed it. As of today:

Chance of winning

Hillary Clinton
51.0%
Donald Trump
49.0%

Are you really gloating about a coin flip right now? Hillary has lost tremendous ground in the past few weeks. 8 weeks ago, people would have laughed at this prediction.

I'm not voting for Trump but you have buried your head in the sand..

Interesting my post was interpreted as gloating. That wasn't my intention. Kind of fascinating for those of us that follow 538 that the line was crossed for the first time yesterday. I doubt it will be the last time that Donald is ahead. It's a horrific thought just how close this election is.

Trump supporters - savor the moment

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Today for the first time Trump leads Clinton in 538's "Polls-only forecast" :

Hillary Clinton
49.9%
Donald Trump
50.1%
(July 30, 2016)

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Trump supporters - savor the moment.

I hope y'all enjoyed it. As of today:

Chance of winning

Hillary Clinton
51.0%
Donald Trump
49.0%

Are you really gloating about a coin flip right now? Hillary has lost tremendous ground in the past few weeks. 8 weeks ago, people would have laughed at this prediction.

I'm not voting for Trump but you have buried your head in the sand..

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Today for the first time Trump leads Clinton in 538's "Polls-only forecast" :

Hillary Clinton
49.9%
Donald Trump
50.1%
(July 30, 2016)

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Trump supporters - savor the moment.

I hope y'all enjoyed it. As of today:

Chance of winning

Hillary Clinton
51.0%
Donald Trump
49.0%

Not for nothing, but crowing about a 2% spread between Clinton and Trump seems downright silly, particularly given the overall trend shows a tightening race that should have been a runaway victory for HRC. I am neither for Trump nor Hillary, just pointing out facts.

And, as I stated few months ago while engaging in a similar discussion with Atsushi, this election (as many others) will come down to a few states, and those are the races to watch. And, right now, in the swing states that count, the race is very close, with the big ones breaking for Trump at the moment: FL and OH are trending for Trump, and PA is less than a 1% spread.

At this point, I truly believe it is a toss up and I think the pundits are blowing hot air and ignoring so much of the "man on the street" sentiments.

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Today for the first time Trump leads Clinton in 538's "Polls-only forecast" :

Hillary Clinton
49.9%
Donald Trump
50.1%
(July 30, 2016)

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Trump supporters - savor the moment.

I hope y'all enjoyed it. As of today:

Chance of winning

Hillary Clinton
51.0%
Donald Trump
49.0%

Are you really gloating about a coin flip right now? Hillary has lost tremendous ground in the past few weeks. 8 weeks ago, people would have laughed at this prediction.

I'm not voting for Trump but you have buried your head in the sand..

SOS wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Today for the first time Trump leads Clinton in 538's "Polls-only forecast" :

Hillary Clinton
49.9%
Donald Trump
50.1%
(July 30, 2016)

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Trump supporters - savor the moment.

I hope y'all enjoyed it. As of today:

Chance of winning

Hillary Clinton
51.0%
Donald Trump
49.0%

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Today for the first time Trump leads Clinton in 538's "Polls-only forecast" :

Hillary Clinton
49.9%
Donald Trump
50.1%
(July 30, 2016)

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Trump supporters - savor the moment.

Wait, what about the big convention bump?

SOS wrote:
Quote:

SOS wrote:
Today for the first time Trump leads Clinton in 538's "Polls-only forecast" :

Hillary Clinton
49.9%
Donald Trump
50.1%
(July 30, 2016)

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Trump supporters - savor the moment.

I hope y'all enjoyed it. As of today:

Chance of winning

Hillary Clinton
51.0%
Donald Trump
49.0%

SOS wrote:
Today for the first time Trump leads Clinton in 538's "Polls-only forecast" :

Hillary Clinton
49.9%
Donald Trump
50.1%
(July 30, 2016)

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Trump supporters - savor the moment.

SOS wrote:
Quote:

TheBigGuy wrote:
Just utter revisionist BS.... your cut and paste job of a response even says that people on her campaign were sending out emails (my comments> and contacting sympathetic journalists floating the Muslim rumors) They are doing the same thing now desperate to connect Trump to the unsecured DNC Servers. And Bill Clinton also played the race card when she lost South Carolina to Obama.

Somehow all this stuff happens and she is never aware, or heard or knew what her own people were doing? You probably believe Christie did not know about bridgegate too?

Quote:

SOS wrote:
Fact Checker
Donald Trump?s ridiculous claim that Hillary Clinton started the birther movement

?You know who started the birther movement? You know who started it? Do you know who questioned his birth certificate, one of the first? Hillary Clinton. She?s the one that started it. She brought it up years before it was brought up by me.?

? Donald Trump, interview with CNN?s Wolf Blitzer, May 4, 2016

Zombie claims are stubborn things. No matter how many times you debunk them, they keep rising from the dead ? even eight years later.

Trump was one of the most high-profile birthers during President Obama?s 2012 reelection campaign. Starting early last year, Trump and other Republicans blamed Clinton for starting the birther movement. Our friends at FactCheck.org thoroughly disproved this and found no link between Clinton and the birther rumors. When Trump repeated it months later, PolitiFact and our colleague David Weigel again debunked it.

Not one to be deterred by facts, Trump said it yet again May 4, 2016, the day he officially became the presumptive Republican nominee for president. So we decided it?s our turn to get to the bottom of leading theories underlying this claim. Of course, the Trump campaign as usual did not respond to our request for information.

The Facts

The allegation that Clinton was the first, or even one of the first, to question Obama?s birth certificate is simply false. But Trump would be on safer ground if he blamed her supporters for stoking the birther rumors, which do have some Democratic roots.

Let?s examine some of the main ongoing theories underlying the claim that Clinton was the ?original birther.?

Strategy memo, March 2007

This memo is supposed to be a smoking gun. Mark Penn, then a Clinton campaign aide, laid out a strategy of positive and negative messages to defeat Obama. One of his suggestions was to target his ?lack of American roots.? Excerpt, from the memo obtained by the Atlantic:

All of these articles about his boyhood in Indonesia and his life in Hawaii are geared towards showing his background is diverse, multicultural and putting that in a new light.

Save it for 2050.

It also exposes a very strong weakness for him ? his roots to basic American values and culture are at best limited. I cannot imagine America electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and in his values. He told the people of NH yesterday he has a Kansas accent because his mother was from there. His mother lived in many states as far as we can tell ? but this is an example of the nonsense he uses to cover this up.

?Let?s explicitly own ?American? in our programs, the speeches and the values. He doesn?t,? Penn suggested. But he added: ?We are never going to say anything about his background.?

Clinton ?wisely chose not to go this route,? the Atlantic reported. Staffers who criticized Obama?s ?otherness? (such as sending an email asking whether Obama was secretly Muslim) were admonished, Weigel wrote.

Note that the memo doesn?t mention Obama?s citizenship or question whether he was born in America. We asked Clinton campaign spokesman Josh Schwerin whether mentioning Obama?s citizenship was part of the strategy discussed in regard to this memo.

?The Clinton campaign never suggested that President Obama was not born here and never planned to,? Schwerin said.

Emails from Clinton supporters in 2008

In spring 2008, some of Clinton?s supporters began circulating anonymous emails questioning Obama?s citizenship. FactCheck.org and Politico cited these emails as the first time his citizenship was called into question, by a small group of ?diehard? Clinton supporters during the Democratic primary as her path toward the nomination began to fade.

?What it goes back to is ? not the Clinton campaign or her staff, but her supporters, as she was losing in the, sort of, really bitter spring of 2008,? Ben Smith, co-author of a Politico article digging into the birther movement?s roots, said in a 2011 MSNBC interview. ?Some of her passionate supporters were kind of grasping at straws for reasons he [Obama] could be ineligible for president.?

Chain emails surfaced claiming Obama was ineligible to become president because he was born in Kenya, as his mom was too young to travel by plane back to America to give birth. Others claimed Obama was refusing to release his full birth certificate because it probably contains information that he had dual Kenyan and U.S. citizenship at birth.

Of course, it was just a rumor. FactCheck.org and the Hawaii Department of Health confirmed that Obama was born in Honolulu.

We found no evidence that Clinton or her campaign coordinated any of these email chains questioning Obama?s citizenship. Authors of the Politico story could not find any links to Clinton or her campaign, and neither could FactCheck.org or PolitiFact.

Clinton?s interview on CBS?s ?60 Minutes,? March 2008

Some point to a ?60 Minutes? interview to show that Clinton coyly suggested otherwise. But this interview has been taken out of context.

The main smear in the 2008 campaign was the rumor that Obama is a Muslim, and the birther question ?bubbled around the fringes of 2008,? Smith said in the MSNBC interview.

Amid the Obama-is-Muslim rumors, a Clinton campaign staffer circulated a photo of Obama wearing a turban. Her campaign denounced the photo but did not identify which staffer was responsible ? saying any of the 700-plus people working on the campaign could have sent it.

Steve Kroft asked Clinton about the photo and such rumors on ?60 Minutes?:

Kroft: ?You don?t believe that Senator Obama is a Muslim??

Clinton: ?Of course not. I mean, that?s? You know, there is no basis for that. I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn?t any reason to doubt that.?

Kroft: ?You said you?d take Senator Obama at his word that he?s not a Muslim.?

Clinton: ?Right.?

Kroft: ?You don?t believe that he?s ??

Clinton: ?No. Why would I? There is nothing to base that on, as far as I know.?

Kroft: ?It?s just scurrilous ??

Clinton: ?Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time.?

While Obama?s citizenship was not mentioned here, this clip has been used to assert that Clinton tacitly endorsed birther theories by adding: ?as far as I know.? These five words would be used against her for the next seven years.

We asked Schwerin whether Clinton was suggesting that the birther rumors were true, even while calling them ?ridiculous,? and he said: ?No. As you pointed out, she said it was a ridiculous rumor.?

MORE

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fa ... ted-the-birther-movement/

Cut and paste job? I posted the quintessential repudiation by The Washington Post of the BS that has been posted on Briebart and other fake news organizations - Hillary Clinton starting the birther movement.

Donald J. Trump was behind the birther movement lock stock and barrel. That is a fact. You may not believe it, that is your opinion, but you are not entitled to facts.

The more we know about the real Trump the more bizarre is the "evidence" provided by his defenders. He's clearly unstable and unfit to be president. And this information is slowly trickling down to his low information supporters, and that support is slowly eroding.

SOS wrote:
Quote:

stillinjc wrote:
Memo to Mr Khan: the moment you become a democrat tool, you're fair game.

Memo to Donald. Once you align with Putin you become a tool of Russia which makes you a traitor.

stillinjc wrote:
Memo to Mr Khan: the moment you become a democrat tool, you're fair game.

TheBigGuy wrote:
Just utter revisionist BS.... your cut and paste job of a response even says that people on her campaign were sending out emails (my comments> and contacting sympathetic journalists floating the Muslim rumors) They are doing the same thing now desperate to connect Trump to the unsecured DNC Servers. And Bill Clinton also played the race card when she lost South Carolina to Obama.

Somehow all this stuff happens and she is never aware, or heard or knew what her own people were doing? You probably believe Christie did not know about bridgegate too?

Quote:

SOS wrote:
Fact Checker
Donald Trump?s ridiculous claim that Hillary Clinton started the birther movement

?You know who started the birther movement? You know who started it? Do you know who questioned his birth certificate, one of the first? Hillary Clinton. She?s the one that started it. She brought it up years before it was brought up by me.?

? Donald Trump, interview with CNN?s Wolf Blitzer, May 4, 2016

Zombie claims are stubborn things. No matter how many times you debunk them, they keep rising from the dead ? even eight years later.

Trump was one of the most high-profile birthers during President Obama?s 2012 reelection campaign. Starting early last year, Trump and other Republicans blamed Clinton for starting the birther movement. Our friends at FactCheck.org thoroughly disproved this and found no link between Clinton and the birther rumors. When Trump repeated it months later, PolitiFact and our colleague David Weigel again debunked it.

Not one to be deterred by facts, Trump said it yet again May 4, 2016, the day he officially became the presumptive Republican nominee for president. So we decided it?s our turn to get to the bottom of leading theories underlying this claim. Of course, the Trump campaign as usual did not respond to our request for information.

The Facts

The allegation that Clinton was the first, or even one of the first, to question Obama?s birth certificate is simply false. But Trump would be on safer ground if he blamed her supporters for stoking the birther rumors, which do have some Democratic roots.

Let?s examine some of the main ongoing theories underlying the claim that Clinton was the ?original birther.?

Strategy memo, March 2007

This memo is supposed to be a smoking gun. Mark Penn, then a Clinton campaign aide, laid out a strategy of positive and negative messages to defeat Obama. One of his suggestions was to target his ?lack of American roots.? Excerpt, from the memo obtained by the Atlantic:

All of these articles about his boyhood in Indonesia and his life in Hawaii are geared towards showing his background is diverse, multicultural and putting that in a new light.

Save it for 2050.

It also exposes a very strong weakness for him ? his roots to basic American values and culture are at best limited. I cannot imagine America electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and in his values. He told the people of NH yesterday he has a Kansas accent because his mother was from there. His mother lived in many states as far as we can tell ? but this is an example of the nonsense he uses to cover this up.

?Let?s explicitly own ?American? in our programs, the speeches and the values. He doesn?t,? Penn suggested. But he added: ?We are never going to say anything about his background.?

Clinton ?wisely chose not to go this route,? the Atlantic reported. Staffers who criticized Obama?s ?otherness? (such as sending an email asking whether Obama was secretly Muslim) were admonished, Weigel wrote.

Note that the memo doesn?t mention Obama?s citizenship or question whether he was born in America. We asked Clinton campaign spokesman Josh Schwerin whether mentioning Obama?s citizenship was part of the strategy discussed in regard to this memo.

?The Clinton campaign never suggested that President Obama was not born here and never planned to,? Schwerin said.

Emails from Clinton supporters in 2008

In spring 2008, some of Clinton?s supporters began circulating anonymous emails questioning Obama?s citizenship. FactCheck.org and Politico cited these emails as the first time his citizenship was called into question, by a small group of ?diehard? Clinton supporters during the Democratic primary as her path toward the nomination began to fade.

?What it goes back to is ? not the Clinton campaign or her staff, but her supporters, as she was losing in the, sort of, really bitter spring of 2008,? Ben Smith, co-author of a Politico article digging into the birther movement?s roots, said in a 2011 MSNBC interview. ?Some of her passionate supporters were kind of grasping at straws for reasons he [Obama] could be ineligible for president.?

Chain emails surfaced claiming Obama was ineligible to become president because he was born in Kenya, as his mom was too young to travel by plane back to America to give birth. Others claimed Obama was refusing to release his full birth certificate because it probably contains information that he had dual Kenyan and U.S. citizenship at birth.

Of course, it was just a rumor. FactCheck.org and the Hawaii Department of Health confirmed that Obama was born in Honolulu.

We found no evidence that Clinton or her campaign coordinated any of these email chains questioning Obama?s citizenship. Authors of the Politico story could not find any links to Clinton or her campaign, and neither could FactCheck.org or PolitiFact.

Clinton?s interview on CBS?s ?60 Minutes,? March 2008

Some point to a ?60 Minutes? interview to show that Clinton coyly suggested otherwise. But this interview has been taken out of context.

The main smear in the 2008 campaign was the rumor that Obama is a Muslim, and the birther question ?bubbled around the fringes of 2008,? Smith said in the MSNBC interview.

Amid the Obama-is-Muslim rumors, a Clinton campaign staffer circulated a photo of Obama wearing a turban. Her campaign denounced the photo but did not identify which staffer was responsible ? saying any of the 700-plus people working on the campaign could have sent it.

Steve Kroft asked Clinton about the photo and such rumors on ?60 Minutes?:

Kroft: ?You don?t believe that Senator Obama is a Muslim??

Clinton: ?Of course not. I mean, that?s? You know, there is no basis for that. I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn?t any reason to doubt that.?

Kroft: ?You said you?d take Senator Obama at his word that he?s not a Muslim.?

Clinton: ?Right.?

Kroft: ?You don?t believe that he?s ??

Clinton: ?No. Why would I? There is nothing to base that on, as far as I know.?

Kroft: ?It?s just scurrilous ??

Clinton: ?Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time.?

While Obama?s citizenship was not mentioned here, this clip has been used to assert that Clinton tacitly endorsed birther theories by adding: ?as far as I know.? These five words would be used against her for the next seven years.

We asked Schwerin whether Clinton was suggesting that the birther rumors were true, even while calling them ?ridiculous,? and he said: ?No. As you pointed out, she said it was a ridiculous rumor.?

MORE

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fa ... ted-the-birther-movement/

matt07302 wrote:
I think Trump's exclusion of immigration based on religion is a First Amendment fight in the making.

But back to the point... you think it is great that Trump attacked a family who paid the ultimate price with a fallen son fighting for our country.

SOS wrote:
Fact Checker
Donald Trump?s ridiculous claim that Hillary Clinton started the birther movement

?You know who started the birther movement? You know who started it? Do you know who questioned his birth certificate, one of the first? Hillary Clinton. She?s the one that started it. She brought it up years before it was brought up by me.?

? Donald Trump, interview with CNN?s Wolf Blitzer, May 4, 2016

Zombie claims are stubborn things. No matter how many times you debunk them, they keep rising from the dead ? even eight years later.

Trump was one of the most high-profile birthers during President Obama?s 2012 reelection campaign. Starting early last year, Trump and other Republicans blamed Clinton for starting the birther movement. Our friends at FactCheck.org thoroughly disproved this and found no link between Clinton and the birther rumors. When Trump repeated it months later, PolitiFact and our colleague David Weigel again debunked it.

Not one to be deterred by facts, Trump said it yet again May 4, 2016, the day he officially became the presumptive Republican nominee for president. So we decided it?s our turn to get to the bottom of leading theories underlying this claim. Of course, the Trump campaign as usual did not respond to our request for information.

The Facts

The allegation that Clinton was the first, or even one of the first, to question Obama?s birth certificate is simply false. But Trump would be on safer ground if he blamed her supporters for stoking the birther rumors, which do have some Democratic roots.

Let?s examine some of the main ongoing theories underlying the claim that Clinton was the ?original birther.?

Strategy memo, March 2007

This memo is supposed to be a smoking gun. Mark Penn, then a Clinton campaign aide, laid out a strategy of positive and negative messages to defeat Obama. One of his suggestions was to target his ?lack of American roots.? Excerpt, from the memo obtained by the Atlantic:

All of these articles about his boyhood in Indonesia and his life in Hawaii are geared towards showing his background is diverse, multicultural and putting that in a new light.

Save it for 2050.

It also exposes a very strong weakness for him ? his roots to basic American values and culture are at best limited. I cannot imagine America electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and in his values. He told the people of NH yesterday he has a Kansas accent because his mother was from there. His mother lived in many states as far as we can tell ? but this is an example of the nonsense he uses to cover this up.

?Let?s explicitly own ?American? in our programs, the speeches and the values. He doesn?t,? Penn suggested. But he added: ?We are never going to say anything about his background.?

Clinton ?wisely chose not to go this route,? the Atlantic reported. Staffers who criticized Obama?s ?otherness? (such as sending an email asking whether Obama was secretly Muslim) were admonished, Weigel wrote.

Note that the memo doesn?t mention Obama?s citizenship or question whether he was born in America. We asked Clinton campaign spokesman Josh Schwerin whether mentioning Obama?s citizenship was part of the strategy discussed in regard to this memo.

?The Clinton campaign never suggested that President Obama was not born here and never planned to,? Schwerin said.

Emails from Clinton supporters in 2008

In spring 2008, some of Clinton?s supporters began circulating anonymous emails questioning Obama?s citizenship. FactCheck.org and Politico cited these emails as the first time his citizenship was called into question, by a small group of ?diehard? Clinton supporters during the Democratic primary as her path toward the nomination began to fade.

?What it goes back to is ? not the Clinton campaign or her staff, but her supporters, as she was losing in the, sort of, really bitter spring of 2008,? Ben Smith, co-author of a Politico article digging into the birther movement?s roots, said in a 2011 MSNBC interview. ?Some of her passionate supporters were kind of grasping at straws for reasons he [Obama] could be ineligible for president.?

Chain emails surfaced claiming Obama was ineligible to become president because he was born in Kenya, as his mom was too young to travel by plane back to America to give birth. Others claimed Obama was refusing to release his full birth certificate because it probably contains information that he had dual Kenyan and U.S. citizenship at birth.

Of course, it was just a rumor. FactCheck.org and the Hawaii Department of Health confirmed that Obama was born in Honolulu.

We found no evidence that Clinton or her campaign coordinated any of these email chains questioning Obama?s citizenship. Authors of the Politico story could not find any links to Clinton or her campaign, and neither could FactCheck.org or PolitiFact.

Clinton?s interview on CBS?s ?60 Minutes,? March 2008

Some point to a ?60 Minutes? interview to show that Clinton coyly suggested otherwise. But this interview has been taken out of context.

The main smear in the 2008 campaign was the rumor that Obama is a Muslim, and the birther question ?bubbled around the fringes of 2008,? Smith said in the MSNBC interview.

Amid the Obama-is-Muslim rumors, a Clinton campaign staffer circulated a photo of Obama wearing a turban. Her campaign denounced the photo but did not identify which staffer was responsible ? saying any of the 700-plus people working on the campaign could have sent it.

Steve Kroft asked Clinton about the photo and such rumors on ?60 Minutes?:

Kroft: ?You don?t believe that Senator Obama is a Muslim??

Clinton: ?Of course not. I mean, that?s? You know, there is no basis for that. I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn?t any reason to doubt that.?

Kroft: ?You said you?d take Senator Obama at his word that he?s not a Muslim.?

Clinton: ?Right.?

Kroft: ?You don?t believe that he?s ??

Clinton: ?No. Why would I? There is nothing to base that on, as far as I know.?

Kroft: ?It?s just scurrilous ??

Clinton: ?Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time.?

While Obama?s citizenship was not mentioned here, this clip has been used to assert that Clinton tacitly endorsed birther theories by adding: ?as far as I know.? These five words would be used against her for the next seven years.

We asked Schwerin whether Clinton was suggesting that the birther rumors were true, even while calling them ?ridiculous,? and he said: ?No. As you pointed out, she said it was a ridiculous rumor.?

MORE

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fa ... ted-the-birther-movement/

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matt07302 wrote:
I think Trump's exclusion of immigration based on religion is a First Amendment fight in the making.

But back to the point... you think it is great that Trump attacked a family who paid the ultimate price with a fallen son fighting for our country.

It's not. I already explained his immigration proposal to you. It's to ban all immigration from countries with a proven history of terrorism. BTW, I'm still waiting for you to point to a section of the Constitution that prohibits this.

And your "point" has already been asked and answered. I'll copy and paste, since you don't seem to be processing what I'm saying:

And I fault the DNC and the family for exploiting their son's death for political purposes. Especially because they presented a highly misleading version of reality. You know, that pesky thing that keeps getting in the way of your emotional arguments.

He said Muslims? did he change is tune again because I can't keep up. If this is really his argument it should ban all immigration from Ireland, England, France, Germany, Israel, etc. Does he have a list?

I just can't connect with you at all on his comments about Army Capt. Humayun S.M. Khan's family. Their son died in combat fighting for our country. For Trump to attack the family is shameful, but he has a history of disrespecting Americans who serve their country. They were not forced to go on stage. They wanted to make their voice heard and they have that right. They had courage, their son had courage. Trump does not.

Trump doesn't need to run for President either. By your standard, he has "courage" every time he takes the stage.

If Trump attacked some innocent family that was sitting around minding their own business, I'd agree with you. But that's not what happened. We have a Muslim family that exploited their son's death for political purposes. Far from "courage," I find it distasteful. But either way, when you directly attack a political candidate in public, you yourself are fair game.

Fair game for you perhaps, but not for someone who is aiming to be the next Commander and Chief.

Oh wait, don't tell me you've "disqualified" him as a result of his comments. I've lost count at the number of times this has happened.