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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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nafco wrote:
I cant understand how some people can halt the development on a project like this that is actually in relative scale with the neighborhood as opposed to every other project in JSQ that is a 60 story tower next to a 2 story house. This would benefit the streetscape in my opinion, but its not my call I guess.


What's so hard to understand? The proposed building did not include ANY parking. That's unacceptable in Jersey City, where people need cars.


You don't need to have a car in Jersey City. If you choose to have one, you can pay for a spot in one of the many parking lots all throughout the city.

Posted on: 2016/12/12 1:09
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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I'm not sure I see your point, exart. This block of Perrine is just as walkable as most of Downtown, and more walkable than McGinley Square, as several others already pointed out. We're talking about a spot 5 minutes' walk from the Journal Square PATH stop. I live a couple of blocks away from Perrine on Tuers, and I haven't owned a car for 5 years.


You might need a car where you live, but it sounds like it's a lot farther from the Bergen Ave retail corridor and the PATH station than Perrine Ave is. This place isn't a 15-minute walk from PATH, it's literally a 5-minute walk away. Why are you assuming your situation applies to all of JSQ, especially the areas closer to the PATH?

It's unrealistic to think that car owners would move into a building with no parking in a neighborhood where getting parking is such a hassle. If you own a car, why would you pay a premium to live so close to the PATH and in the middle of one of the biggest traffic and parking clusterf*cks in the city? Your building is another story, because it came with a parking garage, so of course most of the people who bought there brought cars. The truth is that this building will mostly attract carless people, or it'll fail to rent out (which would be the landlord's problem). From my own apartment searches in the area I can tell you that there's robust demand for apartments this close to the PATH from people who want to live car-free, so I don't think the landlord would have a problem.


Forcing developers to include parking screws over people who want to live car-free, because you're forced to pay for the cost of the parking spot in your rent whether you want it or not. Building a structured parking spot costs about $40,000 per spot, and you can bet that developers pass that on to the tenants.

Posted on: 2016/12/11 16:27

Edited by edg2103 on 2016/12/11 16:42:30
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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Yeah, McGinley Sq is def better than where I am. I appreciate people living without cars. I've done it since moving to JC in 2000. I did it for months in my new neighborhood as well. Not for me (I'm also a little older - probably would've been fine 5 or so years ago still).
But, I can now see that people who will move to these proposed new buildings in neighborhoods outside of downtown (and I guess outside of McGinley Sq), who have the money to move to these buildings, just might want the convenience of a car. I would wager a lot of them would, actually. Every one of the condo owners in my building brought their car (or two) along as well. It's going to happen.
I side with the residents on Perrine on this one.

Edit to add: This isn't about the cost benefit of owning a car or not. It's about the convenience, and whether people moving into new buildings are going to have cars to park or not.

Posted on: 2016/12/11 0:55

Edited by exart on 2016/12/11 1:18:40
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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I lived in the bubble of downtown for over 15 years before moving out of the downtown area. I too believed cars were unnecessary in JC. I carried groceries home on foot, had places like Lee's and Tender Shoot for smaller needs, and restaurants all around (well, at least for the last 5 years). I had zipcar for the times I needed to get more than I could carry, or for the occasional trips to Ikea/Target etc.
Earlier this year, I moved out of Downtown. I'm still under a 15 min walk to the JSQ PATH for my work commute, but you know what? There is no zipcar within walking distance to my place now. There is no grocery store, no place to get kitty litter. Yes, I can order online, but that gets old and complicated with waiting for deliveries around my work schedule/how my building is set up (delivery drivers don't use the intercom!). I cannot get to the farmer's market at the PATH station before it's packed up due to my work hours. There's a whole number of reasons I recently caved and got a car. Thankfully, my building has parking. My plan was to rent my space, but after a few months, I realized that I could really use a car.
If you think you don't need a car in ALL areas of JC, you must live in the bubble of the downtown, where yeah, you totally don't need a car.

But Perrine Ave is not like downtown, and until there are grocery stores, produce markets and/or other amenities in the neighborhood, some people will have cars there.

I used to live a block from Perrine. You can easily go without a car there. There's a market within a 2.5 block walk (C-Town), and another down the hill on Sip, before West Side. There are convenience stores all over the Square, and plenty of places deliver there. There is an Amazon Locker in the 7-11 two blocks away as well. There's a post office, DMV, multipe pharmacies, fast food places, bakeries, produce stands, dry cleaners, laundromat (even ones that do wash and fold), all within three blocks of that street.

You also have the PATH and bus terminal two blocks away.

While some of Jersey City may not have amenities, that does not characterize that block in the least.

Posted on: 2016/12/10 22:58
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Not sure about this. We live in McGinley Square, a good 15 minute walk from the JSQ Path. Between Uber, ZipCar (the ones housed at The Beacon), Amazon, and Fresh Direct, we have yet to see the cost benefit of owning a car and paying for parking, gas. But my husband and I really enjoy walking and we don't have small children.


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exart wrote:
I lived in the bubble of downtown for over 15 years before moving out of the downtown area. I too believed cars were unnecessary in JC. I carried groceries home on foot, had places like Lee's and Tender Shoot for smaller needs, and restaurants all around (well, at least for the last 5 years). I had zipcar for the times I needed to get more than I could carry, or for the occasional trips to Ikea/Target etc.
Earlier this year, I moved out of Downtown. I'm still under a 15 min walk to the JSQ PATH for my work commute, but you know what? There is no zipcar within walking distance to my place now. There is no grocery store, no place to get kitty litter. Yes, I can order online, but that gets old and complicated with waiting for deliveries around my work schedule/how my building is set up (delivery drivers don't use the intercom!). I cannot get to the farmer's market at the PATH station before it's packed up due to my work hours. There's a whole number of reasons I recently caved and got a car. Thankfully, my building has parking. My plan was to rent my space, but after a few months, I realized that I could really use a car.
If you think you don't need a car in ALL areas of JC, you must live in the bubble of the downtown, where yeah, you totally don't need a car.

But Perrine Ave is not like downtown, and until there are grocery stores, produce markets and/or other amenities in the neighborhood, some people will have cars there.

Posted on: 2016/12/10 17:39
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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I lived in the bubble of downtown for over 15 years before moving out of the downtown area. I too believed cars were unnecessary in JC. I carried groceries home on foot, had places like Lee's and Tender Shoot for smaller needs, and restaurants all around (well, at least for the last 5 years). I had zipcar for the times I needed to get more than I could carry, or for the occasional trips to Ikea/Target etc.
Earlier this year, I moved out of Downtown. I'm still under a 15 min walk to the JSQ PATH for my work commute, but you know what? There is no zipcar within walking distance to my place now. There is no grocery store, no place to get kitty litter. Yes, I can order online, but that gets old and complicated with waiting for deliveries around my work schedule/how my building is set up (delivery drivers don't use the intercom!). I cannot get to the farmer's market at the PATH station before it's packed up due to my work hours. There's a whole number of reasons I recently caved and got a car. Thankfully, my building has parking. My plan was to rent my space, but after a few months, I realized that I could really use a car.
If you think you don't need a car in ALL areas of JC, you must live in the bubble of the downtown, where yeah, you totally don't need a car.

But Perrine Ave is not like downtown, and until there are grocery stores, produce markets and/or other amenities in the neighborhood, some people will have cars there.

Posted on: 2016/12/10 0:25
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With ZipCar membership and in walking distance to the Path, we've never needed our own car.

Posted on: 2016/12/9 23:42
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JCMan8 wrote:
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nafco wrote:
I cant understand how some people can halt the development on a project like this that is actually in relative scale with the neighborhood as opposed to every other project in JSQ that is a 60 story tower next to a 2 story house. This would benefit the streetscape in my opinion, but its not my call I guess.


What's so hard to understand? The proposed building did not include ANY parking. That's unacceptable in Jersey City, where people need cars.


Not sure if youre being sarcastic or not, but in an area thats walkable to 24 hour mass transit which connects to Manhattan and all other forms of mass transit, i wouldnt exactly say people NEED cars. its a luxury but not every single person in JC should have a vehicle. its not sustainable.

if you were being sarcastic, my apologies.


In a city with poor public transit such as this one, people need cars. Certainly, if you are building a big development, no parking at all is completely unacceptable.

You're the one who seemed confused by the development's rejection. I just explained the obvious.

Posted on: 2016/12/9 16:43
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nafco wrote:
I cant understand how some people can halt the development on a project like this that is actually in relative scale with the neighborhood as opposed to every other project in JSQ that is a 60 story tower next to a 2 story house. This would benefit the streetscape in my opinion, but its not my call I guess.


What's so hard to understand? The proposed building did not include ANY parking. That's unacceptable in Jersey City, where people need cars.


Not sure if youre being sarcastic or not, but in an area thats walkable to 24 hour mass transit which connects to Manhattan and all other forms of mass transit, i wouldnt exactly say people NEED cars. its a luxury but not every single person in JC should have a vehicle. its not sustainable.

if you were being sarcastic, my apologies.

Posted on: 2016/12/9 15:47
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The issue is not whether a community has too many arts districts, I think JC has too many Redevelopment districts. Local laws are ignored in order to give developers what they want at the expense of the general public.

Posted on: 2016/12/9 0:48
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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I cant understand how some people can halt the development on a project like this that is actually in relative scale with the neighborhood as opposed to every other project in JSQ that is a 60 story tower next to a 2 story house. This would benefit the streetscape in my opinion, but its not my call I guess.


What's so hard to understand? The proposed building did not include ANY parking. That's unacceptable in Jersey City, where people need cars.

Posted on: 2016/12/8 17:37
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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I cant understand how some people can halt the development on a project like this that is actually in relative scale with the neighborhood as opposed to every other project in JSQ that is a 60 story tower next to a 2 story house. This would benefit the streetscape in my opinion, but its not my call I guess.

Posted on: 2016/12/8 17:26
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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Jersey City panel rejects 48-unit project near Journal Square

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
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on December 08, 2016 at 11:58 AM

JERSEY CITY -- Residents of Perrine Avenue are cheering today after they helped to defeat a plan for a six-story, 48-unit building on the small dead-end street near Journal Square.

The Planning Board voted down the site plan Tuesday night, with one member voting in favor. The board agreed with residents in opposition that the plan was too large for the neighborhood.

The six-story building at 19 Perrine Ave. would have replaced three single-family homes. Residents in opposition criticized the plan not just for its scale but for not including any parking.

Read more:  http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... 48-unit_project_near.html


Posted on: 2016/12/8 17:09
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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The use of language is flawed isn't it? Its claiming to include ....."spaces for theaters, art galleries and studios, museums, libraries and more".... When you put the letter "S" at the end it makes it plural, right? SO are they claiming there will actually be two or more libraries in this small complex? More than two museums? Two or more theaters? Its a bullshit list of imaginary substance that was clearly thrown together in haste. It is NOT being specific about what it claims to be offering in exchange for a zoning variance and I believe the bar should be higher for proposals like this. If the developer has substantive things it can bring to the table they should have no trouble at all listing them and DEFINING them. Pointing to other unrelated developments in other parts of the world and claiming you can do the same is NOT in itself a plan for success.


When I hear "spaces for...", I just imagine an empty lot where one of those institutions could go, if it was ever built. If it took this many years to develop a profitable luxury building, you can imagine how long it would take to build anything for the publics benefit.

Posted on: 2016/10/27 13:35
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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The use of language is flawed isn't it? Its claiming to include ....."spaces for theaters, art galleries and studios, museums, libraries and more".... When you put the letter "S" at the end it makes it plural, right? SO are they claiming there will actually be two or more libraries in this small complex? More than two museums? Two or more theaters? Its a bullshit list of imaginary substance that was clearly thrown together in haste. It is NOT being specific about what it claims to be offering in exchange for a zoning variance and I believe the bar should be higher for proposals like this. If the developer has substantive things it can bring to the table they should have no trouble at all listing them and DEFINING them. Pointing to other unrelated developments in other parts of the world and claiming you can do the same is NOT in itself a plan for success.

Posted on: 2016/10/27 10:23
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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It says it in the article: "allowed to build taller high-rises than zoning allows in exchange for creating spaces for theaters, art galleries and studios, museums, libraries and more."

Newark did this with NJPAC and it has been a great improvement to the area. Go to the area around military park and you'll notice the transformation happening. I think that serves as a good example of this working.

Posted on: 2016/10/26 16:16
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What exactly comprises an "art district" and what are its characteristics that give it substance beyond the "selling the sizzle" aspect of a real estate developers initial pitch? Developers should be asked to define EXACTLY what those words mean and then when the project is complete there needs to be a mechanism in place that judges weather or not a viable "arts district" has been created. After all this is the valuable trade off the developers are offering the city in exchange for the go ahead to build whatever they want. If they are claiming they can bring an "arts district" to an area where before there was none, and they are claiming it is a contribution so valuable that the city should overlook zoning, then they should have no trouble defining it exactly and guaranteeing it will happen upon the projects completion. Are there people at city hall that can weigh in on this issue and point to examples int he recent past where developers created an Arts District as they promised?

Posted on: 2016/10/26 10:44
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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Jersey City envisions arts district near historic Loew's

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
on October 25, 2016 at 12:19 PM

JERSEY CITY — The neighborhood behind the Landmark Loew's Jersey Theatre in Journal Square would be set for a radical transformation under zoning changes up for final adoption by the City Council tomorrow.

The changes would allow the Harwood family to construct residential high-rises and arts facilities on a roughly 2-acre area the family owns that runs along the PATH tracks. The area is now home now to parking lots and a garage.

The city hopes the changes will lead to the creation of a cultural arts district connecting the neighborhood west of the Loew's to Journal Square. The Harwoods would be allowed to build taller high-rises than zoning allows in exchange for creating spaces for theaters, art galleries and studios, museums, libraries and more.


http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... e.html#incart_2box_hudson


can a city have too many arts districts?

Posted on: 2016/10/25 23:18
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Jersey City envisions arts district near historic Loew's

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
on October 25, 2016 at 12:19 PM

JERSEY CITY — The neighborhood behind the Landmark Loew's Jersey Theatre in Journal Square would be set for a radical transformation under zoning changes up for final adoption by the City Council tomorrow.

The changes would allow the Harwood family to construct residential high-rises and arts facilities on a roughly 2-acre area the family owns that runs along the PATH tracks. The area is now home now to parking lots and a garage.

The city hopes the changes will lead to the creation of a cultural arts district connecting the neighborhood west of the Loew's to Journal Square. The Harwoods would be allowed to build taller high-rises than zoning allows in exchange for creating spaces for theaters, art galleries and studios, museums, libraries and more.


http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... e.html#incart_2box_hudson



Posted on: 2016/10/25 17:01
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what a monstrosity for that block.

Posted on: 2016/10/8 4:46
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New Journal Square community group to hold first meeting Oct. 8

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By Ron Zeitlinger | The Jersey Journal
on October 06, 2016 at 8:57 AM, updated October 06, 2016 at 8:58 AM

A new Journal Square community group has been formed and it will hold its first general meeting at 10 a.m. on Saturday, Oct. 8, at the Old Bergen Church, 1 Highland Ave.

New JSQ Community Association's slogan is "clean, green and safe" and the group said clean streets, sidewalks and alleys, beautification such as more flowers and murals, an environmentally friendly neighborhood, and a sharp reduction in crime are its top priorities.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... m.html#incart_river_index


Posted on: 2016/10/6 22:38
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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This is within the 2060 Journal Square Plan where buildings this size are in fact allowed by zoning. Although the lack of a sidewalk is a bit odd.....


There will be a sidewalk. Developers can't get rid of those. The rendering shows no setback from the sidewalk.

Posted on: 2016/10/5 14:10
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This is within the 2060 Journal Square Plan where buildings this size are in fact allowed by zoning. Although the lack of a sidewalk is a bit odd.....

Posted on: 2016/10/4 20:53
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Plan pits developer against neighborhood in Journal Square

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
on October 04, 2016 at 2:58 PM, updated October 04, 2016 at 3:22 PM

JERSEY CITY — The developer of a six-story, 54-unit building proposed for a dead-end street near Journal Square is expected to receive a hostile reception from residents at tonight's Planning Board meeting.

The 64-foot-high building would replace three single-family homes on Journal Square's Perrine Avenue, which runs about 300 feet and is home to 16 houses. Nick Babalis, who is behind the project, needs the board's approval to have zero space between the front of the building and the sidewalk.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... a.html#incart_river_index

Posted on: 2016/10/4 20:34
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wow, thats exciting. looks like JSQ finally got its first decent eating establishment for brunch. its about time! hope they do well.

Posted on: 2016/10/3 16:24
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I noticed a vacant store front a year or so ago in handsome brick building at Liberty and St Paul's. Not sure what had been there previously (there used to be a bar around there that closed about 15 years ago but I think was another spot) with a nice big window and corner location it felt like something should be there. I noticed some work happening there this year and finally figured out what is happening - some type of eatery:

https://www.facebook.com/Square1jc/abo ... ut_item&ref=page_internal





Posted on: 2016/10/2 14:14
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(I know Stringer has this in a separate thread but I just wanted a log of it in this Journal Square thread)

Plans for 3 major new Journal Square towers move forward

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
on August 17, 2016 at 9:48 AM, updated August 17, 2016 at 12:23 PM

JERSEY CITY — Donald Trump's son-in-law is about to put his stamp on Journal Square.

Jared Kushner and KABR Group are proceeding with plans to build three residential towers on two lots near the Journal Square PATH hub, towers that will include a total of 2,466 luxury residential units, 103,784 square feet of retail space and 224,539 square feet of offices.

The plans, given unanimous approval by the Planning Board last night, include a radical transformation of the old headquarters of The Jersey Journal into an open-air retail market and public plaza fronting a 72-story tower.

Chris Langston, chair of the planning board, hailed both projects, calling the one for 30 Journal Square — the old home of The Jersey Journal — "absolutely brilliant.


http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... nal_square_towers_mo.html


Posted on: 2016/8/17 21:45
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i still think a Marion Stop 200 feet away from the JSQ stop is the biggest waste of time, money and resources, only benefitting a handful of people and inconveniencing hundreds of thousands more every year who have to wait for an extra stop during rush hours. its pointless to even study this as an option. its under a 10 minute walk to JSQ. there are so many more important things the PATH can do with tax payer money than build this.

All that said, I hope the area develops as proposed and JSQ in general continues to see a nice boost in the coming years.
agreed. what a colossal waste of money if we are just talking about 200 feet. wouldn't it be cheaper to build an enclosed walkway with moving walkways to jsq?


That's a great idea!

Posted on: 2016/8/1 15:23
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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nafco wrote:
i still think a Marion Stop 200 feet away from the JSQ stop is the biggest waste of time, money and resources, only benefitting a handful of people and inconveniencing hundreds of thousands more every year who have to wait for an extra stop during rush hours. its pointless to even study this as an option. its under a 10 minute walk to JSQ. there are so many more important things the PATH can do with tax payer money than build this.

All that said, I hope the area develops as proposed and JSQ in general continues to see a nice boost in the coming years.
agreed. what a colossal waste of money if we are just talking about 200 feet. wouldn't it be cheaper to build an enclosed walkway with moving walkways to jsq?

Posted on: 2016/8/1 15:11
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Re: What’s going there? (Journal Square edition)
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i still think a Marion Stop 200 feet away from the JSQ stop is the biggest waste of time, money and resources, only benefitting a handful of people and inconveniencing hundreds of thousands more every year who have to wait for an extra stop during rush hours. its pointless to even study this as an option. its under a 10 minute walk to JSQ. there are so many more important things the PATH can do with tax payer money than build this.

All that said, I hope the area develops as proposed and JSQ in general continues to see a nice boost in the coming years.

Posted on: 2016/8/1 14:35
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