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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Monroe wrote:
Fulop's problem with the reval will get worse if JC is forced to pay for 25% of its school costs, as per this bi-partisan push for equality in school funding.

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/ ... la-must-changed/85343328/


Fulop's problems would also get worse if:
- path trains shut down
- a meteor hits downtown
- nuclear war breaks out.

But those are all entirely different topics...stop hijacking threads.



Posted on: 2016/6/5 1:55
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Monroe wrote:
Fulop's problem with the reval will get worse if JC is forced to pay for 25% of its school costs, as per this bi-partisan push for equality in school funding.

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/ ... la-must-changed/85343328/


Congrats stateaidguy, your message is being heard, apparently.

Posted on: 2016/6/4 23:53
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Fulop's problem with the reval will get worse if JC is forced to pay for 25% of its school costs, as per this bi-partisan push for equality in school funding.

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/ ... la-must-changed/85343328/

Posted on: 2016/6/4 18:57
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Judge sides with appraisal company again in Jersey City reval contract case

Full Story

Posted on: 2016/6/2 19:18
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Jersey City, appraisal firm squabble over legal fees from reval case

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on May 27, 2016 at 4:20 PM, updated May 27, 2016 at 4:43 PM

JERSEY CITY ? The West New York real-estate appraisal firm that won a breach-of-contract case against Jersey City over the canceled property revaluation is seeking $109,061 from the city to pay for some of the costs of the suit.

The city's attorneys object to the amount, saying it would cause a hardship for taxpayers and because it represents a "windfall" for Realty Appraisal Co.'s attorney, Philip Elberg, according to court documents. The city suggests an amount no more than $69,201.

More

Posted on: 2016/5/27 23:17
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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SOS wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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MDM wrote:
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brewster wrote:

The foreclosure talk is scaremongering plain and simple.


I do expect cacophony of wails and moans probably in November of 2017 as the property owners in the downtown open their new tax reassessments... backdated to the beginning of the tax year.


Boohoo, we Downtowners have to pay ~1% more on property that has appreciated 400% in 20 years. Do we seriously expect to see any years coming where the property Downtown will appreciate at less than 2%? I don't, at least on average. The entire tax is paid for.

And just to be clear above the smoke, the expected rate of ~2.1% is not high for northern NJ, it's average, maybe even on the low side. It's the 1% that some people were gloating over that was the anomaly.


We are so lucky to have the jclist intelligentsia that have agreed that 2.1% will be the new effective tax rate. But no matter how many times it is repeated, it's still wrong. 2.5% best case scenario. If you can't afford 2.5 - to 3%, consider a contingency plan now.


I should stay out of this since I'm an outsider troll who likes Steve Sweeney, but no one knows what the tax rate will be. Sure, the tax levy might increase, but the tax rate itself might be the same or even lower.

There are two updates on Jersey City's Equalized Valuation that will take place between now and when the new assessments go into effect in 2018. Remember, if the assessment is done perfectly the assessed value will equal the Equalized Valuation.

JC has had two great real estate years in a row. From 2014 to 2015, JC's Equalized Valuation rose by $700 million, from $18.6 billion to $19.3 billion. From 2015 to 2016 was even better, with JC's Equalized Valuation rising from $19.3 billion to $21.6 billion.

If JC continues on the trajectory of the last few years JC may gain billions in its Equalized Valuation. A 10% increase would only be $2.1 billion and that's easily within the realm of possibility.

So, unless you think that Jersey City will have to increase its tax levy by more than 10% or you think that JC's real estate will flatline or drop, then the tax rate may likely be the same and it could even be lower.

I've seen talk about JC real estate being in a bubble. I know nothing about this, but New York City's economy continues to do really well and that should mean that JC's real estate market should continue its climb.

Posted on: 2016/5/27 15:00
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Ralph_Abutts wrote:
The best retort to what I have written is "fear mongering", really?
SNIP
If you do not think a redistribution of the tax base, whereby some tax bills will quadruple overnight, will wreck havoc on the local economy (e.g. foreclosures), you are sadly mistaken.


See, there's the fear mongering. No one is expected to quadruple, Very few of the "fortunate" are paying a real rate much under 1%, yet you unhesitatingly scream "taxes will quadruple!!!"

Posted on: 2016/5/26 21:15
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Only two? Well it is a pilot program, afterall and not to be confused with the other P.I.L.O.T. program.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 20:49
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Ralph_Abutts wrote:
an immediate Reval (as opposed to a more sensible, one time phase in)


Does such a thing exist?


The state should hire a revaluation company if Fulop does not put our a bid soon. Then deduct that money from any funds JC receives.


Excellent idea! I would even take it a step further and withhold state aid to JC for violating the law.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 20:48
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Ralph_Abutts wrote:
IIRC, a state pilot in Monmouth County, 20%/yr over 5 years, to be done in perpetuity (no gap between revals).


This one?

Two towns backed out of Monmouth County's controversial property tax pilot program that has become the subject of widespread complaints from property owners and an ongoing criminal investigation

Posted on: 2016/5/26 20:36
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IIRC, a state pilot in Monmouth County, 20%/yr over 5 years, to be done in perpetuity (no gap between revals).

Posted on: 2016/5/26 20:10
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terrencemcd wrote:
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Ralph_Abutts wrote:
an immediate Reval (as opposed to a more sensible, one time phase in)


Does such a thing exist?


The state should hire a revaluation company if Fulop does not put our a bid soon. Then deduct that money from any funds JC receives.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 20:07
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Ralph_Abutts wrote:
an immediate Reval (as opposed to a more sensible, one time phase in)


Does such a thing exist?

Posted on: 2016/5/26 19:19
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Ralph_Abutts wrote:
The best retort to what I have written is "fear mongering", really?

If the 90% Sanders or 10% Cruz tax plan were to take effect tomorrow as in overnight, would that not throw the national economy into chaos?

And how about raising the minimum wage to $15/hr overnight? Oh wait a sec, New York and Cali are doing so, but progressively over a number of years. So why do you think that is so?

If you do not think a redistribution of the tax base, whereby some tax bills will quadruple overnight, will wreck havoc on the local economy (e.g. foreclosures), you are sadly mistaken.

Let's be clear, I am not arguing what is fair or whether or not there should be a revaluation.

Rather, what I am stating is that there should be some flexibility or a middle ground offered by the State Treasury. There should be a *one time* exception for long overdue municipalities like Jersey City to do a reval in stages. I do not propose a specific solution for what stages means; I'll leave that up to others to debate.

However, one thing is clear, if you make large/sweeping tax changes, overnight, whether it be locally or nationally, it will have some rather large unintended and perverse consequences.

The current reval law/dictate is bad for ALL of Jersey City. It is counterproductive. A staged/phased-in reval is the smart thing do.


I see. So all claims and suppositions, but nothing to back it up.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 19:12
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The best retort to what I have written is "fear mongering", really?

If the 90% Sanders or 10% Cruz tax plan were to take effect tomorrow as in overnight, would that not throw the national economy into chaos?

And how about raising the minimum wage to $15/hr overnight? Oh wait a sec, New York and Cali are doing so, but progressively over a number of years. So why do you think that is so?

If you do not think a redistribution of the tax base, whereby some tax bills will quadruple overnight, will wreck havoc on the local economy (e.g. foreclosures), you are sadly mistaken.

Let's be clear, I am not arguing what is fair or whether or not there should be a revaluation.

Rather, what I am stating is that there should be some flexibility or a middle ground offered by the State Treasury. There should be a *one time* exception for long overdue municipalities like Jersey City to do a reval in stages. I do not propose a specific solution for what stages means; I'll leave that up to others to debate.

However, one thing is clear, if you make large/sweeping tax changes, overnight, whether it be locally or nationally, it will have some rather large unintended and perverse consequences.

The current reval law/dictate is bad for ALL of Jersey City. It is counterproductive. A staged/phased-in reval is the smart thing do.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 18:30
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JPhurst wrote:
Purely political? No. Some politics? Perhaps.

It eventually had to be done. Sure, you could say that with development in Journal Square and other areas, the mayor would have liked to push things off to "even it out" a little bit. But it was going for way too long and even if the deviation was decreasing it could not be delayed for whatever time was necessary for it to even out. And on top of that, downtown properties would still likely be more highly valued.

The Mayor will take the political hit, for better or for worse. And now as this happens you have opportunists piling on with issues like abatements and school funding.

But it had to be done, and from both a practical and political perspective, sooner would have been better than later.


Fulop should take the political hit, he intentionally tried to delay it.

And that's way more political than the state forcing a legal reval.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 17:33
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It's amusing that Fulop's mouthpiece would say the state reval push is political-after her boss began a petition telling the Governor to resign . . . nah, nothing political there!

Posted on: 2016/5/26 17:22
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Purely political? No. Some politics? Perhaps.

It eventually had to be done. Sure, you could say that with development in Journal Square and other areas, the mayor would have liked to push things off to "even it out" a little bit. But it was going for way too long and even if the deviation was decreasing it could not be delayed for whatever time was necessary for it to even out. And on top of that, downtown properties would still likely be more highly valued.

The Mayor will take the political hit, for better or for worse. And now as this happens you have opportunists piling on with issues like abatements and school funding.

But it had to be done, and from both a practical and political perspective, sooner would have been better than later.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 17:13
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Monroe wrote:
Purely politically motivated'? Nonsense, the state picked the top three worst offenders-one of which is run by Republicans. Pray tell, what does Christie have against the Mayors of Dunellen and Elizabeth??


My thoughts exactly. The only political part to this whole fiasco is Fulop caceling the reval when he did. Now it's just coming back to bite him, and the residents of DTJC, in the ass.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 17:11
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brewster wrote:
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MDM wrote:
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brewster wrote:

The foreclosure talk is scaremongering plain and simple.


I do expect cacophony of wails and moans probably in November of 2017 as the property owners in the downtown open their new tax reassessments... backdated to the beginning of the tax year.


Boohoo, we Downtowners have to pay ~1% more on property that has appreciated 400% in 20 years. Do we seriously expect to see any years coming where the property Downtown will appreciate at less than 2%? I don't, at least on average. The entire tax is paid for.

And just to be clear above the smoke, the expected rate of ~2.1% is not high for northern NJ, it's average, maybe even on the low side. It's the 1% that some people were gloating over that was the anomaly.


We are so lucky to have the jclist intelligentsia that have agreed that 2.1% will be the new effective tax rate. But no matter how many times it is repeated, it's still wrong. 2.5% best case scenario. If you can't afford 2.5 - to 3%, consider a contingency plan now.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 17:10
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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...This is something I've said before, but for some of the towns who haven't done revals since the 1980s it isn't such a violation of good government, since properties have generally appreciated at uniform rates throughout the jurisdiction. So Westfield hasn't done a reval in a generation, but Westfield's Coefficient of Deviation is really low anyway and thus few people are being taxed unfairly.


Jersey City's disparity in property values among different areas of the city - or the coefficient of deviation - is decreasing at an increasing rate since Fulop has taken office. This is the worst possible timing for a reval in JC. Purely politically motivated. Also, be on the lookout for trolls based outside of JC that post on jclist, providing seemingly neutral and beneficial information, that also happens to benefit Sweeney.


'Purely politically motivated'? Nonsense, the state picked the top three worst offenders-one of which is run by Republicans. Pray tell, what does Christie have against the Mayors of Dunellen and Elizabeth??

Posted on: 2016/5/26 16:55
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...This is something I've said before, but for some of the towns who haven't done revals since the 1980s it isn't such a violation of good government, since properties have generally appreciated at uniform rates throughout the jurisdiction. So Westfield hasn't done a reval in a generation, but Westfield's Coefficient of Deviation is really low anyway and thus few people are being taxed unfairly.


Jersey City's disparity in property values among different areas of the city - or the coefficient of deviation - is decreasing at an increasing rate since Fulop has taken office. This is the worst possible timing for a reval in JC. Purely politically motivated. Also, be on the lookout for trolls based outside of JC that post on jclist, providing seemingly neutral and beneficial information, that also happens to benefit Sweeney.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 16:50
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brewster wrote:

The foreclosure talk is scaremongering plain and simple.


I do expect cacophony of wails and moans probably in November of 2017 as the property owners in the downtown open their new tax reassessments... backdated to the beginning of the tax year.


As far as I know, the reval valuations (and related tax levies) will be applicable for 2018, not backdated to 2017. Have you read differently? If so, can you provide a link? I think that is one of the few questions without clear answers about this process, and City Hall is not doing much to inform its residents.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 11:23
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For sale signs seem to have percolated up recently from what I have seen though I may be misreading typical end of school activities.


I don't think you are misreading at all. Two weeks ago, there were 60 properties for sale in 07302 with asking prices of 750K and higher. Today, there are 79. That's a 30% increase in just two weeks. I think that part of the increase is tied to regular seasonal fluctuations, but I also believe that some of it is due to people being proactive about the reval.

The sad part in all this is that some homebuyers are jumping into the market and snapping properties completely oblivious to the upcoming reval. Those will be the people that will get shafted the most: bought high, zero to little equity in their new home, and likely bought too much house because it was affordable given the ridiculously low taxes.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 2:42
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I see. Well, if they nudge the rate higher to anticipate the impact of appeals, I would think it would increase their numbers which could take time to bring the assessments to reality... In the meantime if DT is deluged with a number of properties for people who want to cash out, I presume it will have an immediate impact on prices for the reval. For sale signs seem to have percolated up recently from what I have seen though I may be misreading typical end of school activities.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 2:00
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Ralph_Abutts wrote:
You do not understand the implication of increasing taxes *radically high* for some overnight.

Those who receive an immediate tax reduction or no reduction from the tax reval, it will be short lived.

In the long run, they will subsequently lose some or all of such savings, permanently, in perpetuity, in the form of a higher tax rate and in turn a larger $ tax bill.



Yup. Fear mongering, plain and simple. You are making a lot of claims. How about you back up your wild claims with some references of this happening elsewhere in NJ?


Posted on: 2016/5/26 1:57
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If the reval has significant impact on property values whether up or down, I wonder if the reval company will have a formula to anticipate it preemptively. That way the tax rate would remain the same for all owners. Otherwise we are back to unequal distribution after a few years due to people selling/appealing etc.


I think you're misunderstanding how that would play out. If the currently undertaxed properties drop in value post reval, and are appealed to a lower assessment using post reval comps, there's no unfairness, everybody is now close to market price. But as Ralph pointed out, enough appeals will drop the levy a bit, and possibly require a rate rise. Seems to me that would take a huge number of appeals to trigger. And over this same period aren't some PILOT's expiring? That should make up for at least some of the lost revenue.

I think the assessors trying to anticipate this process WOULD end up with unfairness, with some properties artificially under assessed. What if the tax hike value drop is not as bad as the assessors predict? Then those properties are under again. Probably the best way to anticipate it is for the city to nudge the rate a little higher to begin with, and I wouldn't be surprised if that is long practiced.

Posted on: 2016/5/26 1:39
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If the reval has significant impact on property values whether up or down, I wonder if the reval company will have a formula to anticipate it preemptively. That way the tax rate would remain the same for all owners. Otherwise we are back to unequal distribution after a few years due to people selling/appealing etc. I know this would only impact a relatively small percent of the total increase/decrease but it might have an impact on people decisions regardless. It seems to be better to do that than kicking the can down the road through bridging tax liens.

Just trying to make the situation stable after this - as if there is such a thing in messy democratic jclist

Posted on: 2016/5/25 23:42
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brewster wrote:

The foreclosure talk is scaremongering plain and simple.


I do expect cacophony of wails and moans probably in November of 2017 as the property owners in the downtown open their new tax reassessments... backdated to the beginning of the tax year.


Boohoo, we Downtowners have to pay ~1% more on property that has appreciated 400% in 20 years. Do we seriously expect to see any years coming where the property Downtown will appreciate at less than 2%? I don't, at least on average. The entire tax is paid for.

And just to be clear above the smoke, the expected rate of ~2.1% is not high for northern NJ, it's average, maybe even on the low side. It's the 1% that some people were gloating over that was the anomaly.

Posted on: 2016/5/25 21:34
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brewster wrote:

The foreclosure talk is scaremongering plain and simple.


I do expect cacophony of wails and moans probably in November of 2017 as the property owners in the downtown open their new tax reassessments... backdated to the beginning of the tax year.

Posted on: 2016/5/25 21:02
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