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Re: N.J.’s Highest Court Favors Christie Administration on Pension Payments
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It bears repeating: laughable. But the joke isn't on me. I won't be around to make any further contributions (large or small, take your pick) to this mess, should anyone try to increase my taxes any more. It's easy to move, and there are plenty of enjoyable places to live - all over the world. The only suggestion I have to anyone considering teaching as a career, is to take their intellect, skills and devotion and put those talents to use where they are appropriately rewarded. By and large it is a matter of individual choice which sector of the economy a person selects as their work. Just as it is a matter of individual choice where one lives and pays (more, or less) tax. Bottom line - if you don't like it, then walk and stop whining. You're not getting any more of my money.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 21:01
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Re: N.J.’s Highest Court Favors Christie Administration on Pension Payments
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I do like your attempt at manipulating the numbers... Average starting salary for a college graduate does not equal average starting salary for a career requiring a college degree. You are also completely off base in claiming that teachers are only working 9 months considering the conferences they must attend, the weekends they must work and the evenings they put time in. You must have never met a teacher...
Posted on: 2015/7/28 20:45
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Dos A Cero
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The average starting salary for college grads is about $45k. With about +$10k for STEM degrees and -$10k for liberal arts degree (which covers most teaching positions). Average teacher salary in NJ is about $65k + benefits. However, that is a salary for work about 9 months out of the year. So that is an equivalent 12 month salary for someone making about $85k a year. It would be a stretch to call public school teachers 'badly underpaid' when you take into account the time off from work.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 20:41
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Seriously? you shouldn?t be so bitter. You should have just better in school? I do like that you call underpaying someone now with the promise that you?ll pay them later a ?gravy train.? Thinking like that makes me think you just couldn?t do better in school? Quote:
So would you advocate increasing teacher wages to the average college degree salary? Something tells me your contribution isn?t all that large to begin with?
Posted on: 2015/7/28 20:14
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Dos A Cero
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Re: N.J.’s Highest Court Favors Christie Administration on Pension Payments
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This pension system contribution debacle makes me laugh. The second they increase my taxes any more to pay for it, is the second I leave the state for good. And then my friends they'll get a big "0" contribution from me. It's a joke, but the joke is at the taxpayers expense, and I am ready to roll.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 18:56
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Re: N.J.’s Highest Court Favors Christie Administration on Pension Payments
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The simple fact is the gravy train pension system NJ has is unsustainable. It is a shame that many Democratic governors and Democrat leaders decided to divert pension funds for other purposes, but this merely hastened the inevitable failure of an unsustainable system.
There is no practical or feasible way to fund the pension system, and it's only going to get worse. Robbing the taxpayer blind and diverting all other funding to pay these Florida retirees is unacceptable, and our highest Court has ruled will not be allowed to happen. Time for some people to grow up and realize that money doesn't grow on trees. Nope, not even money that was "promised" by politicians. I can win an election and promise every NJ resident will receive $1 million each. I can even negotiate with a representative of all NJ residents and sign a contract where I pledge to give away other people's money in exchange for votes. This does not mean my promise will happen.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 18:35
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I'm not in a public pension system either. I just find it rather interesting that people have their money literally stolen from them and we're debating about whether or not it should be given back because there are people that believe teachers have had it too good for too long. Its absurd.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 16:16
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Dos A Cero
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Re: N.J.’s Highest Court Favors Christie Administration on Pension Payments
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Quite a regular
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Pebble , I'm not complaining about anything and I do not engage in chat room tennis . I'm not in any public pension system . Because of my job , I just happen to know about state finances . But " was " is the key word here. The fiscal condition of NJ looks like it was negotiated with politicians that have no intention of being around when the bill comes due.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 15:53
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I fail to understand your complaint here. The money *was* in the account and the money *was* available. The money is no longer there now because the pension was raided and stolen from. Those that are entitled to the pensions promised them are merely asking that they receive what they were contracted and agreed to. Maybe if the system wasn?t raided we would be talking about the high cost of the special interest programs that enabled companies like Pfeizer to open a sub-company and basically pay no taxes. Or maybe we would talk about the special interest programs that allow a major corporation like Goya to move one town over and then not spend money in taxes for years. Or maybe we?d talk about the special interest programs that allow Prudential to build a tower in Newark for free and not pay taxes. It isn?t the pension that is the problem. It was all of the other programs that basically let billion dollar companies pay no taxes in the state.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 15:25
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Dos A Cero
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Re: N.J.’s Highest Court Favors Christie Administration on Pension Payments
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Quite a regular
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The NJSC decision just kicks the can further down the road . It affirmes the oblication to pay pensions . But , to raise the needed revenue over 1% of the annual state budget will require a question on the ballot , nor does the Court set any timetable. The checks are being mailed all is cool , but give it a few years and this issue will consume NJ.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 15:24
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LOL! And that's the bitter failure at life in you... Get a better job and you won't be so bitter about others getting a low paying job with some benefits.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 15:20
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Dos A Cero
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Exactly. The NJEA wants to raid the future of our state, and that of our children, in order to pay Florida retirees with fat pension checks and Cadillac benefits for life. While their greed knows no bounds, thankfully we have a Supreme Court that has stopped them. If the unions want to continue robbing the taxpayer blind, they can ask nicely. Put the question on the voting ballot. See how that goes.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 15:07
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Yes, for decades our elected representatives have been giving away the store to the special interest groups that vote en masse to keep them in office, no argument there. It's also why our 'prevailing wage' laws mean we overspend about 35% on construction/road jobs.
Great deal for the special interests, screw job for the average taxpayer. Times are a changing, though-we just can't afford to tax our way out of this massive, special interest group overspending.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 14:37
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Re: N.J.’s Highest Court Favors Christie Administration on Pension Payments
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Just to know what kind of animal we're dealing with here . It's estimated to fully fund public sector pensions and healthcare going forward will require somewhere between 5 to 8 billion dollars annually in new revenue every year forever. That breaks down to $550.00 to $900.00 dollars a year for every person in NJ . Or $2300.00 to $3500.00 for a family of 4. With a very large portion of these checks getting mailed out of state.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 14:36
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The insurance coverage is collectively bargained. You can blame the cost on who the state negotiates with in regards to where they purchase the plans. What I'll state is that just because they are spending more it doesn't mean they are receiving more. You should also be aware that the teachers union isn't the same as all other unions.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 14:14
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Dos A Cero
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Re: N.J.’s Highest Court Favors Christie Administration on Pension Payments
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Yet again, you decide to go with the absurd tem "Cadillac Health Benefits." How can I take anything you write seriously when you believe that the healthcare benefits that NJ teachers are receiving are better than what just about anyone in NJ is receiving. I know it is the same as what I get and they pay more money! You're theory that teachers aren't "paying their fare share" would assume they are being paid fare at the start. It is a fact that they *require* a college degree, unlike a salesman, a fireman, a policeman, a contractor, a politician, etc. The cost of obtaining that degree did not lower. As such, stating that teachers, which already receive an exceptionally low level of salary for the required education that they have, should also take the low money they are paying and siphon it off to chip into a 401(k) is basically just robbing them. The entire purpose of the pension is the admission that teachers are not paid the cost that they outlay to achieve that job. They are not paid the costs that they outlay personally (which involves weekend work, holiday work, conferences on their own dime, etc). The pension system is simple, teachers are paid low wages now but when they retire they are guaranteed to receive money, a similar low wage but a wage none-the-less. If you move that money to a 401(k), you have removed the guarantee of earning back the money lost to opportunity cost and that is because you and everyone one else arguing for a 401(k) is not stating that teachers should be paid more to compensate them.
Posted on: 2015/7/28 14:11
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Dos A Cero
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The average cost of a healthcare plan for NJ public workers is ~$19k/year - which is pretty much platinum coverage. Most private sector workers get the equivalent of a silver plan - and only while they remain employed.
"Cadillac" as far as the tax levy starting 2018 - is $10.2k+ on individual plans, and $27.5k+ on family plans. So NJ public workers average below cadillac - but are not far off. http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/14 ... -it-matter-to-new-jersey/
Posted on: 2015/7/28 14:11
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Pebs, the simple fact is that the big issue is not only pensions, but pension benefits. Lifetime healthcare when these systems were put in place didn't cost a fraction of what it costs now.
Christie's solution is workable-replace the Cadillac health benefits with something similar to what the average taxpayer purchases for him/herself, and apply the cost difference and fund the existing pensions. Make new hires work under a 401K system. Problem solved. Shouldn't everyone pay their fair share?
Posted on: 2015/7/28 14:00
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Let?s go with some actual facts here? When you were going to college did teachers have pension systems? When you were in college did those teachers have ?summers off? (such an absurd argument since they work most weekends)? Ultimately, you chose not to be a teacher despite all of these fantastic benefits that you think are considered a luxury. Since it is an absolute fact, one proven on this site multiple times over, that teachers are the absolute lowest paid occupations that requires a college degree, why should they be deprived of what is essentially the minimal benefit that they have for working while getting paid less. Like the phrase, a bird in hand is worth more than two in the bush, the pension is future compensation for the shortcomings that they receive today. Quote:
Whenever I read ?Cadillac healthcare? I know that the person writing it is basing their entire opinion on the statements of others and that the person really doesn?t know jack squat about it. So, yes, I?m stating that it is an absolute fact that the poster is a moron. I will go so far as to argue that maybe if this person had done better in school they wouldn?t be so jealous of an occupation that pays so low. Maybe they would be happier with their station in life, how much they earn and be proud of their achievements instead of trying to take away the measly benefits that others have in order to make their station in life better. Quote:
Unions are a non-force in the USA these days like a lot of the talking points memos you spit forward in that post (Obamacare! Pensions! Unions!). As has been pointed out, I can?t even say how many times over, the gasoline tax hasn?t been raised in decades. Raising it by a penny per gallon won?t kill anyone. Shame that people can?t see the forest for the trees?
Posted on: 2015/7/28 13:30
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Dos A Cero
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The party of the unions, the Democrats, shoved Obamacare down our throats. Let the union get Obamacare provided for them and we'll save the difference and use it to pay into the pension system till it all gets sorted.
Posted on: 2015/7/27 23:07
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Fresh off their defeat in court, the unions haven't given up on schemes to milk the taxpayer in order to keep their unsustainable pension gravy train running.
Now the NJEA wants to raise the gas tax in order to keep throwing money away on pensions. Sorry greedy unions, if you want the taxpayer to continue to support an unsustainable system, you will need to ask nicely. The court decision made it clear that you will have to put the question to voters on a ballot. Let's see how that works out. You certainly can't try to hijack money earmarked for transportation and infrastructure improvements just to fund Cadillac health plans for life. There's really no end to their greed, is there? http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... ons_the_njea_lets_th.html
Posted on: 2015/7/27 22:56
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Being an average teacher for a couple of years shouldn't entitle you to a lifetime job with lifetime, free healthcare for you and your spouse-especially if you turn into a hack teacher for the next 40 years-with summers off!
Posted on: 2015/6/12 14:35
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I guess the question is, how do you quantify a qualifier like "great"? You can't test your way to a solution. Look at some of the examples that are happening with the absurd PARCC testing. Entire classrooms are filling out the open ended questions with "PARCC Sucks". The test is voluntary and there are parents that won't allow their kids to take it. Would it be through graduation rates, like the way state resources are allocated? This is backwards and puts the power into the hands of the students. If you want to hear horror stories, you've kids graduating after attending only half a year. Would that be a failure of the teacher or the student? Yet, the teacher is the one punished for the students lack of a attendance. "First in, last out" is a product of tenure. It isn't a great system, but the idea is that you prove yourself over the course of several years to the point that you've demonstrated yourself to be a good teacher. And, yes, there is always going to be an aspect of money. Why shouldn't there be? It certainly does involve their time and effort. You wouldn't take a job and not get paid!
Posted on: 2015/6/12 14:09
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Dos A Cero
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The status quo isn't working. Why does the NJEA oppose merit pay for great teachers, leaving out any other issues about poor teacher performance or 'first in, last out' layoff policies? Just like athletes, when they say 'it's not about the money' it's always about the money.
Posted on: 2015/6/12 13:54
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In principle, I completely agree with everything you wrote. I think where we diverge is in the process of getting rid of bad teachers. It's a lot easier to say that we should just ditch them, but how do you determine a bad teacher from a teacher that just happens to be disliked by a couple parents? I recall a high school English teacher I had as a freshman. For me, she was an excellent teacher. To a friend of mine (which had her at a different time of day), she was the worst. Was it simply that she couldn't connect with him? Was it the class he was in? Was it the type of work he did? Additionally, this due process has protected teachers from being fired when a teenager decides that her outlet is to claim to be having an affair with a teacher. Without union protection, these teachers would be blackballed and out of work because of the accusations of a teenager.
Posted on: 2015/6/12 13:47
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NJ has great teachers-what we lack, in the worst performing districts, is concerned, involved parents. And no amount of money will solve that (although Christie believes in getting rid of lousy teachers, and paying more money to great teachers). The NJEA opposes both those initiatives. So we do know where the problem is-we can't force parents to be more involved, but we can ditch lousy teachers and reward great ones.
Posted on: 2015/6/12 13:40
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If you read what I wrote, I said it was a trend that started with Whitman. Corzine is a scumbag crook (Christie is just a scumbag, I don't really think he's a crook). Corzine gets as much blame for this as anyone. He continued the problem. The fact still remains. We keep gutting out the occupation of teacher and our next generation will end up getting taught by those not qualified to be greeters at Walmart...
Posted on: 2015/6/12 13:25
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Corzine gave public employees a 14% raise (gee, I guess Carla Katz must really have been a freak in bed), then didn't pay into the pension fund to pay for it. But it's Christie's fault!
Posted on: 2015/6/12 13:20
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The system is not broken. The system was gutted. If I borrow money from you, I'd expect you to pay it back. Whitman decided to start the trend of borrowing from the pension and those funds were never given back. Maybe, just maybe, the state of New Jersey could pay back the loan it took out...
Posted on: 2015/6/12 13:16
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Dos A Cero
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I love the logic in this thread? With the fact that teachers are the lowest paid of all college requirement occupations, good benefits (I laugh that the absurd talking point of ?Cadillac Pensions? as if Cadillac makes a good car) were a means by which to justify the very low pay. So, let?s take away that benefit. Then, we?ll ask these workers to pay into the system thereby decreasing their present salary further.
After these scumbags (and yes, there is no mistaking the fact that Christie is a scumbag) has taken this occupation and made it about as desirable to work in as Walmart we?re going to expect these teachers to get better results than before?? The fact is, this whole attack on teachers and their union has nothing to do with the children or education. It has everything to do with the fact that unions donate to Democrats and Republicans don?t like that. Let?s all continue in this direction. The future keeps looking brighter and brighter?
Posted on: 2015/6/12 13:14
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